Do you know that there was a major riot in a South Carolina prison last night - seven dead

[malaise]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/state-police-respond-ongoing-situation-sc-prison-54494693
<snip>
Inmates armed with homemade knives fought each other for about seven hours over territory and money, leaving seven of them dead in the worst U.S. prison riot in a quarter-century, officials said Monday. An inmate who witnessed the violence told The Associated Press that bodies were "literally stacked on top of each other."

At least 17 prisoners were seriously injured at Lee Correctional Institution, South Carolina prisons chief Bryan Stirling said. The first fight started in a dorm about 7:15 p.m. Sunday and appeared to be contained before suddenly starting in two other dorms. Cellphones helped stir up the trouble, and state officials urged the federal government to change a law and allow them to block the signals from prisoners' phones.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Our prison and justice system is in terrible shape, unless you are rich and not a POC.

I watched all 5 seasons of "The Wire" recently, written by people who know the system, the political and drug world, and I was horrified and couldnt stop watching.

We have a system designed to criminalize whatever young black men do, whether it is applying sentences unequally that we all know about or just in general.

One of the best ways to continue the policing system first created to control black people and slaves, is to put black people in jail. And then in many cases when they get out they cant vote and must figure out a way to survive in a system that hasn't changed since they went in.

It is a national shame.

I have no idea the population of this prison, black vs white. Doesnt matter, when they get there all that seems to matter less.

[dameatball]

8. The main use of the second amendment was not against foreign aggression, but to control slaves

[Eliot Rosewater]

16. That too

[dameatball]

33. To clarify my previous post:

Foreign aggression was certainly a large part of the need to have an armed militia. However, as the years passed the militias were found to also have other uses, especially in the South.

[cwydro]

17. This is a max security prison.

The state’s most violent offenders are incarcerated there.

These are not Boy Scouts. Yes, our prison system needs reform, but these are guys you’d not want on the streets.

[Eliot Rosewater]

18. Many people in the system become people we dont want on the streets, regardless

of what they were like when they went in.

Our prison system is horrible, inhumane, no matter how violent the criminal.

[cwydro]

19. Many commit murders, rapes, assaults that put them in that system.

You’re very naive if you think no one belongs in max security.

[Eliot Rosewater]

20. Never said that, did I.

[janterry]

36. Personally, I think our federal prisons are pretty good

It's because they have LOTS of programs for the men/women. All of my folks (state prison) would have rather done their time there....Not only are they safer (they never would have talked about that!), but you can learn a trade by the time you get out. Learning a trade was something they'd all have loved to do.

If our state prisons were run like the feds.....well, the cost would be prohibitive (at least how we manage prisons today). But they'd be great (rehabilitation has gone by the wayside in the past few decades...and that's the disgrace, imo)

Black men are disproportionately represented in prison (over represented) - and that's true nationally. So, many prisons have more blacks than whites (which speaks to the money issue - fewer opportunities on the street - fewer supports when they get picked up, $-wise; over-charged by the law...that kind of thing). Also - education (last time I checked, the average educational background was HS drop out. I think most test even lower than that - but I'd have to look that up).

OTOH, I should add that once you're in prison, race is very important. You have to find a way to get by - and identifying with a group is how you go about it.

[saidsimplesimon]

2. Is this another one of those

for profit, private contractor run, inhumane, slave labor camps as in "Cool Hand Luke"?

[janterry]

9. I've worked in private, for profit

and state run prisons.

IME, guards were equally abusive in both places. The problems have more to do with a population that does nothing but sit all day, every day (and seethe or gamble, or whatever) - in large gym like rooms. There were often over 100 people in a dorm.

I've worked in several places that had no air conditioning (Florida) - which made the whole situation even worse........

Here's what they look like

[saidsimplesimon]

10. I had no idea.

My brother managed a shop in the Indiana prison system. I am thankful he is no longer there.

[janterry]

13. I should add that this is a very secure prison

in Cali. You see all the blue lights? Those are guards bubbles. The prisons I worked in had usually one - maybe two bubbles.

If the guards can't see you from the bubble - and you are out of sight from the cameras (everyone in prison knows where those places are)

well. It's really dangerous. For the guards and the prisoners.

[smirkymonkey]

14. They don't have cells?

What about prison jobs, or gyms or going outside?

[janterry]

15. Some guys are housed in cells

they are the more dangerous folks and can't do general population (though keep in mind - everyone is a wee bit dangerous in prison). Imagine yourself in prison, in a room with - say 120 men who will steal from you without a thought.

You might not be a fighter at heart, but all of the men I worked with had a line in their head of what people can't cross (if you don't, the other guys will know it and use you).

In Florida, most of the men didn't have a job. On paper they did. Every am the guard would call up dozens of men for the job that was most commonly assigned: inside grounds. H/She would pick out 5 or 6 guys and the rest would go back to their bunks. Where they spent the day.

ALL of the guys would have LOVED an assignment to a trade (plumbing, HVAC training), but these were plumb positions and hard to get. A few had jobs in admin buildings or as aides. These were highly sought after.

And some had kitchen jobs (these were hated positions because they were really 'worked' - you had to get up early and do, kitchen stuff).

ETA: I worked in the substance abuse program. They guys were assigned to us for the morning or afternoon - that counted as their 'job.' Some liked it, many did not - in the beginning, but warmed up after awhile. Others never liked it. But that accounts for 3 hours of their day - like many other 'jobs' on the compound.

Anyway, vast majority ime - did nothing. Yes, there is rec. but that is scheduled and they only took a few dorms at a time (very carefully). But you do get yard time.

[smirkymonkey]

21. Thank you for the information.

Very enlightening. It just seems like if they did more to keep them occupied it would be better for everyone all around, especially if they offered training they could use after they got out. It just seems like there is so much more that could be done to help them to avoid ending up back in prison later on.

[DonViejo]

3. Yes, the story about the riot has been in the LBN Forum since 8:24 a.m....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142038659

[malaise]

4. Have you seen it on TV anywhere?

Isn't this national news?

[DonViejo]

6. I do not watch TV during the day...I learned a long time ago, I know more about what's

happening if I get my news from reliable and reputable internet sources than I do from television.

[whopis01]

12. Yeah - it was all over the radio when I was driving in to work this morning. n/t

[Tipperary]

22. I just saw it on Lester Holt. Not the lead off, but the Cohen/rump/Hannity crap got the lead.

[malaise]

23. Also on ABC

No problem with Cohen leading this evening but what happened this morning and all day

[Tipperary]

25. Crazy news day. Stormy Daniels, plus they covered the storms in North Carolina. Heh.

[ProudLib72]

5. The oppressed fought amongst themselves over trivial things

While the system remained broken. That about sums up everything that is going on in this country at the moment.

[spanone]

7. I saw that this morning....they allowed these inmates to fight for 7 hours? WTF?

[janterry]

11. You need overwhelming force

to go into an out of control prison. Or you'll get killed (or taken hostage).

I heard some of the inmates complaining that the guards in the bubble didn't come out. If there are 100+ guys in the pod (I don't know the configuration, but that's not uncommon). Shoot. None of us would go out there. You need enough force to control what is happening - or it's suicide.

[ansible]

32. Yep, happened in New Mexico in 1980 in one of the worst prison riots ever

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_State_Penitentiary_riot

Very bloody and graphic article, not for the faint hearted.

[janterry]

35. Even in well run prisons

when a riot breaks out......it's a riot (anyone can get swept up in it - it's not like the guys can hide under their bunks until it is all over. They have to do something, too - to protect themselves).

Prisons always function with outnumbered staff. You can't have hundreds of guards on duty at all times. And you can't go into each area of the facility at once.

I saw some idiots post online (in a comments section) that the guards should just shoot from the bubble. (How would that work? Who would you shoot - and how would you get a clear shot, even if you could shoot THROUGH the bubble?)

There's a lot that can be done to make prisons safer - but once a riot breaks out. Very scary!

[panader0]

24. These guys get cell phones?

[janterry]

29. contraband

they are smuggled in and sold around the compound. They're sold for hundreds of dollars. Some guards have a side business bringing in contraband. But the phones also find their way into prison via visitation.

There's a lot of money to be made in the prison economy.......phones are just one way.

[stillcool]

30. thanks for your input..

are you a writer?

[janterry]

31. no, but in my next lifetime...perhaps!

I've worked in lots of institutions in my career (I have a MSW)

[Lucinda]

26. No... I did not. Thank you.

[greatauntoftriplets]

27. PBS Newshour just reported on it.

[underpants]

28. Had not heard this

Thanks.

[NCTraveler]

34. One of the greatest displays of how broken we are. nt