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oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:34 AM Apr 2018

Why The Simpsons' response to the Apu controversy was so heartbreaking

Excerpt:

There’s something about the response that came across as not only tasteless but viscerally unsatisfying. In his documentary, Kondabolu initiated the complex conversation about what it meant to have a white actor voicing an Indian character (with a heavy, caricatured accent) during a time when there was little or no Indian representation in the media.

The Simpsons on-air response reveals that the minds behind the long-running animated series either entirely failed to grasp Kondabolu’s point or (perhaps, unfortunately, more likely) they were completely indifferent to it.

As Kondabolu made clear in his film, the problem with Apu extends beyond a brown character voiced by a white actor; the problem was not just with The Simpsons, but with its viewers, the drunk idiots on the street who call any South-Asian person “Apu” and who repeated “Thank you, come again,” as a mocking refrain.

http://ew.com/tv/2018/04/09/the-simpsons-apu-controversy-response-heartbreaking-essay/
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why The Simpsons' response to the Apu controversy was so heartbreaking (Original Post) oberliner Apr 2018 OP
And Bart Simpson is played by a woman too. Botany Apr 2018 #1
Have you seen the documentary referenced? oberliner Apr 2018 #3
Its crap Loki Liesmith Apr 2018 #6
Can you elaborate on that? oberliner Apr 2018 #7
i haven't watched the teevee machine in about 8 years, but what i remember of the Simpsons Kurt V. Apr 2018 #10
So another cartoon that has given me hours of laughs and entertainment TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #2
I'd recommend checking out the documentary oberliner Apr 2018 #5
I'm not going to spend nearly an hour watching a documentary about a cartoon. TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #8
It's more a documentary about how Indian-Americans have dealt with being stereotyped oberliner Apr 2018 #9
Okay, so the guy makes a documentary. TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #11
You're not obliged to watch it oberliner Apr 2018 #13
Do you know the difference between Indian Americans and H-1bs? IronLionZion Apr 2018 #14
Yes I do TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #17
We can discuss what's wrong with ethnic stereotypes and share personal experiences if you like IronLionZion Apr 2018 #18
I agree wholeheartedly that workers in STEM jobs should organize. TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #20
It was great Loki Liesmith Apr 2018 #4
Apu is the most normal person on the whole show. TheSmarterDog Apr 2018 #12
A lot of educated liberal DUers don't know what's wrong with it. IronLionZion Apr 2018 #15
Watching it now. Thx! nt Guy Whitey Corngood Apr 2018 #16
Cool - please share your thoughts after you watch! oberliner Apr 2018 #19
The BBC discussed this: EX500rider Apr 2018 #21
I'm watching it right now and can see why people still don't get it IronLionZion Apr 2018 #22

Botany

(70,510 posts)
1. And Bart Simpson is played by a woman too.
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:42 AM
Apr 2018

+ Willie the Groundskeeper is not played by a Scot Lad.

My only problem w/the Simpsons is that it was so good that it
supported Fox News for years.

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
10. i haven't watched the teevee machine in about 8 years, but what i remember of the Simpsons
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:06 AM
Apr 2018

it was crap.

TexasTowelie

(112,217 posts)
2. So another cartoon that has given me hours of laughs and entertainment
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:43 AM
Apr 2018

is heading the way of Speedy Gonzales and The Cleveland Show?

I guess that some people are only happy when they are in outrage mode.

TexasTowelie

(112,217 posts)
8. I'm not going to spend nearly an hour watching a documentary about a cartoon.
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:59 AM
Apr 2018

The last time that I watched an episode of The Simpsons was in 2014 (new or older episodes in syndication). On my list of priorities or shows that I want to watch it ranks low on the list.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
9. It's more a documentary about how Indian-Americans have dealt with being stereotyped
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:02 AM
Apr 2018

And how the media has portrayed them over the years.

TexasTowelie

(112,217 posts)
11. Okay, so the guy makes a documentary.
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:09 AM
Apr 2018

It doesn't mean that I'm obliged to watch it.

I'm also well aware of how Indian-Americans are stereotyped. My last job interview was with an Indian American. It was extremely difficult to understand the interviewer because of his diction which fits the stereotype. The fact that my field has a large number of Indian Americans within it also explains why the wages have fallen about 30%-40% over the past 15 years. I don't harbor any grudges, but I'm not going to ignore my personal experiences either.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
13. You're not obliged to watch it
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:55 AM
Apr 2018

I am just recommending it.

I am a huge fan of The Simpsons - and I love the character of Apu.

The documentary raised some interesting points that were thought-provoking and challenging, so I am suggesting folks check it out.

IronLionZion

(45,447 posts)
14. Do you know the difference between Indian Americans and H-1bs?
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 02:08 PM
Apr 2018

Because I highly doubt Indian Americans are harder to understand than other Americans or the reason for falling wages in your field.

I'm glad you don't harbor any grudges.

TexasTowelie

(112,217 posts)
17. Yes I do
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:21 PM
Apr 2018

because we had some with the H-1B visas working for the company that I was last employed with.

It was difficult to understand that interviewer because he had difficulty pronouncing consonants that had "hard" sounds which made about 20% of what he spoke difficult to understand. I was there and I am relating my experience--you weren't, so casting doubt upon my personal experience is essentially calling me a liar. When you have to ask the interviewer more than once to repeat the question that pretty much knocks you out of consideration for the job. FWIW, I used to deal with people on the telephone throughout the country from both coasts and a few other countries (Canada, Ireland, UK and India) and while some people had accents I could understand them. This guy was a headhunter, but he made for a poor interviewer because of his problems with diction (and I've been an interviewer myself).

I can only reflect my personal experience, but when my field went from about 10% of people from foreign origin (be it an immigrant or someone on a visa) to about 40% and the company is outsourcing work it is apparent what the business plan is and the company admitted it to the US employees. Saying that you highly doubt my personal experience is again calling me a liar.

Personal attacks are against the rules on DU. I'm not going to alert because I believe that it is better to discuss than alert, but other people may not be as generous.

IronLionZion

(45,447 posts)
18. We can discuss what's wrong with ethnic stereotypes and share personal experiences if you like
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 05:42 PM
Apr 2018

I grew up enjoying the Simpsons also. They could have done the Indian character better in a less insulting way. And that accent is exactly what people like about it, and it's exactly what's wrong with it. I was born and raised in America and you wouldn't want to know about my experiences with people throwing that accent and stereotype in my face even though I have an American accent.

You probably wouldn't like being placed in jobs that are 90% foreign visa workers and my sole purpose for being placed there is that I look like them but I can check the box marked US citizen, thus blocking me out from much better roles. And I have had grey haired Hillary supporters ask me if I understand basic American phrases and completely mean well and not know what's wrong with it.

I do infinitely better on phone interviews than in person. In person interviews always get technical very fast for some reason, and for security clearance positions they feel the need to ask about my grandparents. Phone interviews have more to do with the position description and my resume qualifications and the clearances I've listed that are super easy to verify in the system. It's funny how that works.

It sounds like your company was screwing it's American workers. I would blame company leaders, not the foreign workers. My experience as an American of American origin is that way too many people think I'm stealing jobs away from Americans and should be paid less or punished in some way. Maybe more workers in STEM jobs should unionize.

TexasTowelie

(112,217 posts)
20. I agree wholeheartedly that workers in STEM jobs should organize.
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:36 PM
Apr 2018

However, workers in the STEM jobs come from science related fields, are generally more conservative, and have little experience in activist causes. I did join various non-union associations since I believed that presenting an organized front would accomplish more than I could as an individual.

And you are completely correct about the company screwing it's American workers. We were frequently asked to work 70 and 80 hour work weeks and receive no extra compensation since we were salaried workers. There was no balance for the employees to have a life outside of work when we were at the office 6.5 days a week for months at a time. What little free time I had was for restocking the refrigerator and preparing clothing to wear to work.

I understand that all of those workers from foreign countries along with those that were born in the US are looking for a better life to support themselves and their families. I certainly sympathize with them and also admire the devotion that they put into their work. However, what I mentioned about that interviewer being difficult to understand is what furthers the stereotypes. It isn't a matter of prejudice against anyone and I've developed strong relationships with colleagues around the world, but the selection of that particular interviewer by the headhunter company was a poor choice. After the interview which I knew that I bombed, I attributed it to the luck of the draw since I've had an equal share of good and bad interviews when I could completely understand the interviewer.

BTW, I'm sorry that anyone would question your ability to comprehend basic American phrases based solely upon the color of your skin. That is insulting and it is also the sign of a poor interviewer since their preconceptions and prejudices are guiding the interview. If the person being interviewed does have difficulty understanding basic American phrase, then it will show in other areas of the interview process but to have direct questions based upon the color of one's skin is terrible.

 

TheSmarterDog

(794 posts)
12. Apu is the most normal person on the whole show.
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:13 AM
Apr 2018

Everyone else seems be be what they are - cartoon stereotypes.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
21. The BBC discussed this:
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 06:38 PM
Apr 2018

My fav outtake on it was this one:

"Every character is a stereotype.Homer is an overweight, beer-drinking, dumb American, Marge is a housewife, Bart is a stereotypical boy, Lisa is a stereotypical girl, Mr. Burns is a white, old, money obsessed CEO, Cheif Wiggium is an overweight, donut-eating lazy cop etc."

Hank Azaria, who has played the character and others on the series for almost 30 years, said earlier this year that he found it "very upsetting to me personally and professionally" that anyone was marginalised because of Apu.

"The Simpsons' over the years has been pretty humorously offensive to all manner of people Republicans, Brazilians, presidents, high school principals, school principals, Italians, you name it," he said.

"And they take a lot of pride over there in not apologizing for any of that. I think, over the years, they've done a really good job of being, shall we say, uniformly offensive without being outright hurtful."


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43699224

IronLionZion

(45,447 posts)
22. I'm watching it right now and can see why people still don't get it
Tue Apr 10, 2018, 08:01 PM
Apr 2018

It's more about the lack of other positive roles at the same time, which deprives viewers of effective balance. Of course the Simpsons provides over the top caricatures of all sorts of people, who are balanced out by positive portrayals in other shows. There are plenty of positive portrayals of Scottish people, cops, blue collar workers, etc. That was not the case for Indian people. Indians would know why it's wrong and it would feel wrong to us. Other types of people would not and think it's just funny like all the other characters.

It's subconscious for many viewers who come to believe those traits are true about me and people like me. It has taken many decades to only recently start seeing Indian-American leads on shows (not just side kicks) and to have them be themselves as Americans without any fake accents or cliches and stereotypes.

And then there's the expectation that we would just submissively take what people dish out to us and not raise hell when faced with bigotry like black people and feminists and other marginalized groups of people. Indian-Americans are a very small part of America, about 1%, and we are disproportionately educated and successful, which leads many to believe it's OK to heap piles of shit on us in other ways. I have challenged people with employment power who have threatened me with deportation. Are you going to send me back to America? That's where I'm from. And I don't have any work visa because I was born here, and my birthright citizenship never expires. Which has led some idiots to be shocked to find out that the 14th amendment is real.

And for any well-meaning DUers who are still stumped. It's not just about Apu. That's just the symbol of so much stuff that is part of the Indian-American experience that the rest of you don't have to deal with. You don't even have to know why it's wrong or what's wrong with it to empathize with your fellow DUers and liberals who voted for Hillary by over 80%. If we vote, we are obviously US citizens. If we're frustrated by something, there's probably a good reason for it, and our votes and influence matter.

And when the anti-immigrant asshole won the presidency, he appoints dipshits like Ajit Pai and Nikki Haley and Raj Shah to his administration.

Obama appointed all sorts of great people: Vivek Murthy, Vivek Kundra, a very different Raj Shah, Aneesh Chopra, Dr. Arati Prabakar, and now we got US Senator Kamala Devi Harris who might make it all the way to the white house.

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