Bernie has been "tone policed" beyond anything I've ever seen. The irony is that to a large part of

[redgreenandblue]

America he too far to the left on social and cultural issues.

He was on the right side of history concerning marriage equality far before the Democratic mainstream. He has consistently been pro-choice for his entire career, unlike many Democrats. And he publicly endorsed BLM while some Democrats were still muttering "All Lives Matter" under their breaths. That is ultimately the reason why he will never be elected president. Outside of the liberal bubble, him ceding the stage to BLM activists is seen as "lack of leadership qualities" and more.

Bernie became popular with the white working class in 2016 because he came out of nowhere and spoke mainly about economics to them. They didn't really have the time to digest the fact that he really doesn't share their cultural values. This is likely to be different in 2020.

[ladjf]

1. Outstanding post. Thanks. nt

[JCanete]

2. I would definitely stop short of saying Sanders has been tone policed beyond anything you've seen.

Maybe on these boards, where there is a lot of effort put into finding fault with anything he says, which does certainly not mean that sometimes he doesn't fumble, but on the national stage, I'd say Clinton and Obama were tone policed like crazy, just not about their ability to speak to issues affecting people of color. Obama, to his credit, was so careful and talented a speaker that he rarely gave them anything to work with, but they tried anyway. Damn Obama saluting with a coffee in his hand...that unpatriotic bastard.

[NCTraveler]

3. Poor victim.

Look how far an argument has to go in order to paint him as such.

Try decades and billions of dollars worth of bullshit being thrown at you, Sanders. This is nothing more than the continued display of his privilege. Poor widdle Sanders wants votes.

Look at Clinton. How about Franken. Kerry was swiftboated.

Sanders is a career politician with almost zero to show for his “fight”. He actually sided with Republicans to block a pathway to citizenship. <- Sorry, don’t mean to police his tone. You want to talk about Sanders and civil rights?

This is about as good as it gets. “Tone police”

[jberryhill]

5. You want to talk about Sanders and civil rights?

Well, at least he's moved beyond using African Americans as props, as he did here:

[LexVegas]

9. "using African Americans as props" equals Killer Mike. nt

[NCTraveler]

10. Thats exactly it.

And still crying victim to this day. I am truly not even allowed to write what he went home and did in the following years. Some of it is that disgusting.

How do you go from that to opposing a pathway to citizenship.

As you highlight and his career shows, it’s all about Sanders.

Didn’t NRA Mike get him over this hump?

[EffieBlack]

17. Yes, yes, we know. Bernie marched was arrested 55 years ago

Last edited Mon Apr 9, 2018, 12:31 PM - Edit history (2)

Thanks, Bernie. That was great.

Now can we talk about what you're doing now?

You have no idea how annoying and tone-deaf it is to keep bringing that up as if black folk are supposed to be SO grateful that a white college student joined in a protest in 1963 - something that tens of thousands of white college students and a whole lot more black folk (at much greater risk to our lives and safety) did at the time - that we can never question anything he ever does or says or doesn't do or say about civil rights for the rest of his life.

Hell, Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King at the March on Washington - actually marched right there with him, not just somewhere in the crowd. Does that mean he was immune from any criticism for anything he did afterward?

The "how dare you question Bernie after all he did for you" is obnoxious, privileged, insulting drivel.

[dalton99a]

20. +1.

[calimary]

105. And another +1.

[Blue_true]

30. Marched once, then almost nothing after.

Mayor of a very racially non diverse city, named two Post Offices, sponsored a Social Security bill that ANSOLUTELY WILL NOT HAVE PASSED WITHOUT DEMOCRATS BACKING THE BILL.

It is amazing how some tie themselves in knots making Bernie the second coming, when in fact he is a regular politician with tons of faults.

[Dream Girl]

35. Hell, I believe Mitch McConnel marched with Dr.King as well.

Seriously.

[SunSeeker]

43. Thank you, EffieBlack.

[karynnj]

51. How many white college kids took a year off college to fight segregation in Chicago?

I am barely old enough to know what Chicago 1963 was like and it was not the same as the protests my friends I joined on the campus of IU! Mayor Daley was incredibly strong. Few cities were as segregated by ethnic areas as Chicago was. White Chicago is STILL very different from the reality faced in poor, mostly POC areas.

[DinahMoeHum]

88. Agreed. Ancient history by now. Big fucking deal.

What has he fucking done lately?

[Adrahil]

93. Well said. NT

[John Fante]

112. Great point.

[ehrnst]

181. +1000

And Heston had far more to lose by doing so.

[QC]

68. I bet he doesn't even like hot sauce!

[Adrahil]

100. Very nice. But that's not a free pass...

... to tell black folks over and over again, that racism is just a symptom of economic inequality.

[NCTraveler]

187. Robert Byrd was wearing a white sheet in those days.

He then did more for civil rights than Sanders could ever dream of.

Do you see how offensive what you have done is?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

70. Spot on

Being in politics means a lot of negative stuff is thrown you way.

Sanders is hardly unique in the regard.

[Kentonio]

166. Hes achieved more than you ever will.

[NCTraveler]

172. I believe that to be questionable at best.

And not an area you are educated in.

I understand cult of personality and your need to personally attack me. I’m ok with it.

Sorry you view Sanders as such a victim. Couldn’t be further than the truth. Sorry you feel the need to lash out at others body of work which you know nothing about.

Par for the course.

And say you are right, Mitch McConnel has as well. Your point is lacking in many areas. More of your run of the mill lashing out.

Sanders did block ten plus million people from a pathway to citizenship. That is a huge achievement I was working on the other side of. Damn, he has beaten me in the past. Along with millions of oppressed people. And you are promoting him as a victim.

[Kentonio]

173. Just tired of these snide little attacks

It's very clear that some of you put your butthurt over the progressive wing of the party finally having a voice over any consideration of party unity against the Republicans. Posts about election strategy get maybe a dozen replies. Put the word 'Bernie' in a thread title and you'll be in the 150-450 range. It's pathetic quite frankly, and despite your endless insinuations of how well connected and influential you are, you're as guilty of it as anyone.

As for which of you have achieved more, unless you've energized and motivated tens millions of Americans to become politically engaged, and become not only a household name but also the most popular politician in America, then no its not 'questionable'. Sorry if that bruises your ego.

[NCTraveler]

174. Check out post 166.

My ego is just fine. It’s more confidence.

I have never relentlessly worked to block ten plus million people from a pathway to citizenship. You got me there.

Now it’s my ego. Lol

“Just tired of these snide little attacks”

Like post 166?

Like claiming Sanders has been tone policed more than anyone? You at least have to admit that is so absurd as to be laughable, sexism and racist elements not with standing.

Tone policed more than Clinto, Obama, Warren, etc. Flat out laughable.

This op is in support of Sanders. Kind of. Ok. Not really.

[betsuni]

175. +1

[ehrnst]

179. "Tens of millions of Americans" who were not previously "politically engaged?"

Again - where are you getting the numbers for your claims, other than your own mind?

Sorry if that bruises your ego.

[NurseJackie]

183. ###

[ehrnst]

178. Can you be more specific?

I mean one could say that HRC has acheived more than Bernie in terms of affordable health care, and that's qualitifiable.

What's your metric?

[bigtree]

4. tone-policed?

...poor baby.

[Blue_true]

31. That was trully amazing. Haven't had lunch yet, but almost blew my breakfast. nt.

[LexVegas]

6. "while some Democrats were still muttering "All Lives Matter" under their breaths"

Bullshit.

[NurseJackie]

15. I saw that too. Attacking and smearing Democrats for the purpose of...

... a boastful and deceptive "contrast and compare". Good grief! What an insult! (They must think we're stupid or that we wouldn't notice exactly what was being done there.)

[LexVegas]

16. Outright lies to defend a non-Democrat.

[calimary]

111. No kidding! I, for one, do not know (or know of)

ANY Dems, professional or civilian, who’ve responded to the phrase “Black Lives Matter” by muttering “All Lives Matter” under their breath. Much less declaring that out loud.

[FSogol]

23. Exactly, total bullshit.

[Blue_true]

32. It's all about coronating Saint Bernie. You must understand.

[NurseJackie]

7. Lord.

[NCTraveler]

12. I feel like you are tone-policing with that gif.

[NurseJackie]

14. Ha!! :-D (Perfect!)

[RDANGELO]

8. I disagree.

The young people that supported Bernie were not against him on the cultural issues. There are two wings to the Democratic Party, there is the cultural wing and there is the economic reform wing, but they are not opposed to one another; it is a difference in emphasis. Anyone who portrays it as otherwise is hurting the party. These ridiculous criticisms of Bernie are hurting the party.

[Blue_true]

34. How is Bernie criticizing democrats every chance that he gets not hurting the party? nt

[RDANGELO]

40. From what I have seen, he is criticizing the message.

He is trying to help the Democrats improve the message.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

45. Maybe

but maybe he can do it less publicly? And, as a non-member of the party, it looks like an outsider trying to tell a group what it should do. If he wants to have more influence, it'd probably be a lot easier if he, you know, actually becomes a member of said party. But there are no indications that he plans to do it, so, in the end, it just looks like he's a "bomb thrower" and that he's basically giving the people paying attention the perception that both parties basically suck.

[RDANGELO]

55. You might have a point about the way in which he makes his criticisms.

Again, he is making them because he is concerned about the message. As far as his registration, you might as well criticize him for not wearing a toupee. It's not going to change is stance on the issues or his character.

[SunSeeker]

46. So criticizing Bernie's message is "tone policing," but criticizing Dems' is "help." Got it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

57. Here is the rub though, there is NO message, NOTHING, if we dont get 218 seats

So he needs to tell his supporters to vote for ANY democrat

period

[NastyRiffraff]

58. He might be more effective in that

if he became--you know--a DEMOCRAT. He wants to dictate to the Democratic Party what they "should" do (according to him alone) from outside the party. That never works. Not even for the sainted Bernie.

[RDANGELO]

101. Assuming that we are all interested in politics because we want a better society,

what does his registration have to do with that.

[NastyRiffraff]

153. His registration has to do with

his presuming to tell the Democratic Party what they should do, without being a Democrat. He can (and does! God help us, he DOES!) go around the country yelling at people about what the they and the country should do, shaking his finger at them, and that's fine. It's when he tries to dictate to good DEMOCRATS that I find arrogant and presumptuous.

[KPN]

152. Yup!

[Fullduplexxx]

11. Political Support Democrats Do not post support for Republicans or independent/third-party "spoiler

[Ms. Toad]

141. And the next rule down:

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[Fullduplexxx]

150. Thank you i didnt see this although i figured a sanders exemption would be created

And here it is

[karin_sj]

154. So why isn't this rule enforced?

I've seen so many posts where the only purpose is to malign Sanders (and the people who support him) for one thing or another. We're talking post upon post upon post—every day, all about the excruciatingly horrible things that Bernie has said or done. We should be focusing on the upcoming primaries instead of turning DU into a nonstop Bernie Bashing Forum. It's hard to understand the extreme focus on him instead of Trump and the Republicans. It's really important that we unite as a party, not become more and more divided with each passing day.

I was frustrated when this happened right before the 2016 election and I'm even more frustrated that it's still happening. Like so many others, I was a Bernie supporter in the primaries who ended up voting for Hillary in the election. Despite my low post count, I've been a member of DU since GWB was first elected and I've never seen such a concerted effort to sow discord between Democrats for no good reason. Bernie is old news! Time to focus on the future!

[Ms. Toad]

160. You'd have to ask the admins.

I occasionally alert, vote to hide when the thread is bashing, rather than constructive criticism, and appeal when it seems the jury ignored the rule. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

I wish it would stop.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Oh Ive seen more intense tone policing a time or two.

Far more IMO. In fact, all the way to Democrats losing elections tone policing.

[leftynyc]

18. More trashing of ACTUAL DEMOCRATS

in order to prop up a person who refuses to join our party but would like to hijack it AGAIN for personal purposes. No thanks.

[efhmc]

56. He is and always will be the nonDemocrat who

put DJT in office.

[TheSmarterDog]

144. +1000

[Progressive dog]

19. Is Bernie "too far to the left" for America

or will he never be President because of something about Democrats and '"All Lives Matter" under their breaths'?

[Upstate One]

21. Welcome to Hillary's world

It was done to her,

[FSogol]

22. Popular with the white working class? Please. He was popular with young white people & the far left

Many of which didn't bother to vote. Had he run voter registration drives at his media events, he might have done better in the primary.

[NurseJackie]

27. That was very short-sighted of him to not think of doing that.

Among his fans and followers who did take time on their own to register (good for them!) many, however, chose to register as "independents" (I guess they thought it made them sound smarter or something) Later they were shocked to discover that they were ineligible to participate in Democratic party business in closed primaries.

Had he run voter registration drives at his media events, he might have done better in the primary.

And our party's candidate might actually now be the president.

[SidDithers]

24. Bernie in 2015: "Arent most of the people who sell the drugs African American?"

Last edited Mon Apr 9, 2018, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/bernie-sanders-revolution-needs-black-voters-to-win-but-can?utm_term=.oiro14WPk#.li8bWNKEM

The experience was a new one for Sanders. On a trip to Seattle in August 2015, Black Lives Matter activists interrupted two events in one day. The next day, in a meeting with Don't Shoot PDX, a Portland group loosely affiliated with Black Lives Matter, Sanders repeatedly answered questions by referring the activists to his campaign website. (“He said: ‘I don't know you and u don't me, so you have to read my website, you can go on [there] and see my work and judge me from that,’" one attendee recalled in a Facebook post about the meeting.)

Around that time, the candidate brought on Symone Sanders to serve as his national press secretary and one of the first black faces of his campaign. During her first week on the job, she said, she told Sanders that he had to treat racial inequality and economic inequality as “parallel issues” — a suggestion she said he ran with. “I [told him], you know, economic equality is an issue. It’s something we need to address. But for some people it doesn’t matter how much money you make, it doesn’t matter where you went to school, it doesn’t matter what your parents do. It doesn’t matter that Sandra Bland had a job and was on her way to teach for her alma mater. It doesn’t matter. None of that matters.”

By the time his campaign aides scrambled to release a detailed criminal justice platform on Aug. 9, Sanders was still struggling. In a September meeting with Campaign Zero, a movement formed out of the Ferguson protests, activists asked Sanders why, in his opinion, there were a disproportionate amount of people of color in jail for nonviolent drug offenses. Sanders, seated across the table, a yellow legal pad at hand, responded with a question of his own, according to two people present: “Aren’t most of the people who sell the drugs African American?” The candidate, whose aides froze in the moment, was quickly rebuffed: The answer, the activists told him, was no. Even confronted with figures and data to the contrary, Sanders appeared to have still struggled to grasp that he had made an error, the two people present said.

Someone does need to police his "tone".

Sid

[Lucinda]

25. Wow...I missed that one.

SMH...

[SidDithers]

26. Me too...

I only heard about it from the Buzzfeed article, posted a couple of days ago.

Sid

[MrsCoffee]

33. Holy shit.

That’s deplorable level comment.

[SidDithers]

38. I wasn't going to post it...

I expect it will probably, eventually, get hidden. It's from a current article, but references his comments from the Primary. However, the OP called criticism of Bernie "tone policing". Much of the justified criticism is for so much more than just his tone.


But Holy Shit is right.

Sid

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. FUCK I wish I hadnt seen it now, reminds me of tax returns and voting AGAINST russian sanctions

[bettyellen]

146. And there was his Mike Brown should have been going to college gaffe. Dont speak of the dead if

you don’t know the basics of their life.

[ismnotwasm]

147. +1,000,000,000

[Cha]

171. Thank you for that, Sid.. how clueless

can you get?

[ehrnst]

176. That's not a statement that will go away. (nt)

[SunSeeker]

188. Wow.

[NCTraveler]

28. No, We Wont Calm Down Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/

Tone policing is used when talking about the angry blacks, hysterical women, and the like.

Your presentation is extremely tone deaf.

[Tom Rinaldo]

39. No it's not. In this case it is an agenda. The pattern of application has to be considered

The agenda is to diminish Bernie Sanders personally as a political force. The goal is to make him toxic as a 2020 potential presidential candidate. Bernie Sanders the actual human being doesn't rank among the top 250 million factors protecting privilege in America.

To fail to note that Bernie Sanders has consistently been a loyal supporter of the legislative agenda of "angry blacks, hysterical women, and the like" for unbroken decades of his political career is a telling clue. To act like it is perfectly normal for one of the most popular politicians associated with a progressive (and yes Democratic) agenda for America to be treated like the Exhibit A poster child of privilege in America is completely abnormal outside of the context of the agenda that I mentioned above.

I don't have to make a case that Bernie Sanders is pitch perfect on matters of race or sexism or anything else. I know for a fact that at times he is not, but he has never hesitated to strongly oppose racism and sexism as destructive forces even when sometimes it is possible to take issue with his full understanding of them.

It is not strange that instances can be found in the life of a highly public figure who's literal words get recorded during part of each day of his life, where his lack of sufficient sensitivity to how his words might be heard by others can be pointed too. No doubt there are moments when the choices that he makes can be criticized as counter productive also. I remember a lot of that going down here on DU recently with how the Democratic Party treated Al Franken. Bernie Sanders is a selective target. In legal circles it is called selective enforcement. One must view the pattern in order to recognize it.

You seemingly are refusing to see the forest for the trees. There is an ongoing effort on DU to constantly cast bright searchlights onto every seeming wart to be found on Bernie Sanders to the virtual exclusion of everyone else ON EITHER SIDE OF THE POLITICAL AISLE.

Bernie Sanders garners more negative comments on DU by himself than are written about all 51 Senators in the Republican caucus collectively. His literal political stances do not even remotely begin to explain that. What does explain it is a conviction that some here have that Bernie Sanders must be stopped (if it is framed as fighting the next primary) or punished ( if it is framed as fighting the last primary). There is a group effort underway to do just that. Point to this or that scraggly tree branch all you want, but increasingly they do not distract from us seeing the forest of what is being undertaken and why.

[jalan48]

42. All the negative attention tells me Bernie is seen as threat by some financial/political forces.

[Eliot Rosewater]

60. I wonder what the polls say about his support from the AFrican AMerican community

I also wonder, do you consider that community a financial/political force?

[jalan48]

82. I would assume the AA Community is a political force.

[Eliot Rosewater]

84. Didnt you mean financial force politically? Didnt you mean Wall Street?

If his support was very very minimal among the AA community, would you want to know why?

[jalan48]

97. Yes, I doubt Wall Street and the big banks support Bernie and they have the big bucks.

I have seen many posts here on DU opposing Bernie by AA folks. It is interesting to see the AA Community and Wall Street aligning on this though.

[Eliot Rosewater]

99. Wait WHAT did you just say? That black people are aligning with Wall STreet against

Bernie?

dear god, I have now seen it all

[jalan48]

107. No-I said it's interesting they are aligned in opposition to Bernie.

[Jim Lane]

162. The African-American community is NOT aligned in opposition to Bernie.

Here's an actual poll, from Quinnipiac earlier this year. Question 9 (on page 6) asks: "Is your opinion of Bernie Sanders favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?" Among blacks, the numbers were:

Favorable 70%
Unfavorable 10%
Haven't heard 18%
Refused to answer 2%

Obviously, that doesn't mean that, in a hypothetical primary matchup between Bernie and Politician X, Bernie would get 70% of the AA vote. Plenty of other politicians also have high net approval ratings among blacks. It does show, however, that the black community as a whole is not hostile to Bernie Sanders.

[jalan48]

163. Thanks for that info. I don't get the feeling it breaks down that way here on DU though.

Time to get out in the real world.

[EffieBlack]

86. But that's different because we're, you know, confused

.

But if someone tells us again and louder how great Bernie is for us, we'll eventually figure it out for ourselves.

[Tom Rinaldo]

103. I would never pretend to say who you should think is great for you

I never minded anyone who put Bernie Sanders very low on the list of candidates who they would gladly support. But I admit I am having difficulty understanding what it is about him, his views and his record in Congress that qualifies him as the poster child of white privilege who must be attacked at every available opportunity here. You don't like him fine. You prefer someone else, or 1,982 other politicians better, fine.

Meanwhile Sanders almost always votes on our side on issues and we have midterms coming up in November and a lot of people get disgusted watching the next primary war being carried out already by those who see nothing more important than opposing an overall ally while the entire nation and world are at risk.

[LiberalLovinLug]

87. He had great support from the African American community

An article by Simone Sanders, CNN contributor and Sanders campaign worker. And (I can't believe I have to say this, but some in here want to make this some kind of p contest)....an African American.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/12/its-time-to-end-the-myth-that-black-voters-dont-like-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.0c9afc7bc9b6

Last month, just days after the tragedy in Charlottesville, the Rev. Wendell Anthony of Fellowship Chapel in Detroit gave a fiery introduction at a town hall led by Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). It may have been a Tuesday, but watching it felt like Sunday service.

In his speech, Anthony praised Sanders’s effort to “take down the tributes to racism and division” through his work standing up for universal health care, jobs for everybody, a higher minimum wage, tuition-free education, and fair treatment and respect from law enforcement. Anthony called the senator someone who “stands up, speaks up, and keeps his eyes on the prize of freedom and justice and equity.”

You probably didn’t see his speech, because it doesn’t fit the narrative persistently pushed by the senator’s opponents: that black Democrats tend to be more socially conservative and “pragmatic” and thus don’t like Bernie Sanders. Last year saw a slew of such articles looking to explain “why black voters don’t feel the Bern” and what his “real problem with black and Hispanic voters” was. The trend is still going strong: This summer, Terrell Starr explored “Bernie Sanders’ black women problem” in the Root.

[ Centrist Democrats begin pushing back against Bernie Sanders and the party’s left wing ]

My biggest regret from the time I spent on the Sanders campaign as his national press secretary is the fact that we allowed this false narrative to fester and did not effectively combat claims that the senator’s economic message somehow didn’t speak to people of color. Jobs and the economy are “everybody” issues. As Democrats work to craft our message to voters for upcoming elections, we cannot allow this narrative to continue unchallenged.

Last spring, a Harvard-Harris poll found Sanders to be the most popular active politician in the country. African Americans gave the senator the highest favorables at 73 percent — vs. 68 percent among Latinos, 62 percent among Asian Americans and 52 percent among white voters.

[Eliot Rosewater]

90. That's weird, not AT ALL What this says

https://splinternews.com/how-bernie-sanders-lost-black-voters-1793860129

Bernie Sanders lost the Democratic primary in large part because he failed to win the hearts of black progressives.

Instead, Sanders was clobbered by Hillary Clinton among black voters in state after state after state, including some where Sanders either won white voters or lost them narrowly. The gap made it all but impossible for him to win the nomination.

MRS. CLINTON WON AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTERS
Mr. Sanders fought Mrs. Clinton to a draw among white voters, exit polls showed. But he was trounced among nonwhites, who cast four in 10 votes. The decisive edge for Mrs. Clinton: She won African-Americans by more than 50 percentage points.

http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/


Why what you just said appears to be the exact OPPOSITE of everything on the internet...

[LiberalLovinLug]

122. You are comparing his popularity between Hillary and Bernie

If they had to choose between the two during the primary. With Hillary, following behind her husband's long standing work with the AA community, having a big leg up, which the Clintons worked for, deserved, and I do not disparage. But stop making this into a re-fight between the two. The primaries are over. I know thats hard for some to understand, even at this late date.

And this inflammatory opinion piece, by one person, is also full of unsubstantiated 'facts'. Like "Bernie Sanders lost the Democratic primary in large part because he failed to win the hearts of black progressives." Even though the article I posted also posts a link to back up that he DID win the black millennial voters in the primaries, who I would contend would be the most progressive of the black demographic. and which is kinda important going forward.

This is now. Hillary does not have a job (unfortunately) but Sanders does and is pushing on. That contest is over. That poll of 73% support was from less than a year ago, and it did not include any vs. scenerio. It was posted simply to show he was and is supported by the vast majority of black voters for who he is, what his platform is and how it would help improve their lives. So please stop p...ing on someone that the majority of the Black community respects and supports.

There is only one other person I see and read about who is constantly regurgitating the name "Hillary Clinton" to compare against in some kind of way to make themselves look better.

[KitSileya]

165. Wow, talk about re-writing history!

With Hillary, following behind her husband's long standing work with the AA community, having a big leg up,

This is completely discarding Hillary Clinton's work for the AA community, starting at the same age as when Bernie Sanders protested in Chicago - she risked a lot going undercover in Georgia and Alabama to investigate segregated schools as part of Marian Wright Edelman's Washington Research Project. She wasn't "following behind", she was leading, goddamnit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html

"Civil rights lawyers had had success in sending “testers” to investigate whether white and black couples received equal treatment in home rentals and purchases, as required by the Fair Housing Act, but going undercover to test private schools was less common and carried more risks."

"Years later, Mrs. Clinton does not say she ever felt afraid, but a white woman traveling alone in the South would have been “looking over her shoulder,” said Marlene Provizer, who did similar research into segregation academies in Mississippi and Georgia in the same era.

“There weren’t many folks doing this work,” she said. “I was very conscious of being ‘the other.’ ”"

[betsuni]

167. Thank you for posting this!

[LiberalLovinLug]

54. Thanks Tom

I doubt if anyone of these drive-by shooters has the courage to respond to your well thought out response.

Its fun to walk around bullying the 'other'. Hide in the crowd and laugh when the usual ones in front pick on him.
There does seem to be a concerted, organized effort to silence him, to snuff out his influence.

He has never been a polished politician. He makes gaffs. So do even Biden, so does Hillary. Even Barack, "they cling to their guns and God", Obama. That was never his strong point. What those of us that appreciate Sanders look to are his positions on the issues. On his fearless calling out truth to power. On his years of working alongside many prominent respected Democrats to achieve progress.

The disrespect towards him on here is appalling. Shame on them.

[NCTraveler]

65. Drive by shooter.

You just summed up Sanders career.

[LiberalLovinLug]

76. Predictable response

Did that feel good?

[NCTraveler]

80. It just stuck out like a sore thumb. Drive by shooter is perfect imagery....

For his long career as a politician.

While it gave me a chuckle I’m pretty sure my feeling good is from a solid nights sleep, excellent diet and excercise.

[LiberalLovinLug]

124. Nice

[NCTraveler]

64. A career politician with very little to show.

Now being made out to be a great white victim. Look at how you just painted him. I’m not shocked by it anymore.

[Tom Rinaldo]

96. "great white victim"

Your framing is pretty damn interesting - those are your words, not mine. Why are you stressing that Bernie Sanders is white when 48 other members of the Senate Democratic Caucus are also white? And yes sure I would love to vote more minorities into Congress - Vermont is unlikely to be ground zero for that though.

This is what I wrote: "To fail to note that Bernie Sanders has consistently been a loyal supporter of the legislative agenda of "angry blacks, hysterical women, and the like" for unbroken decades of his political career is a telling clue." That was in response to your comment "We Wont Calm Down Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege".

I presume you meant white privilege, or perhaps white male privileged. If I am wrong please enlighten me. Do you in fact disagree with the statement that "Bernie Sanders has consistently been a loyal supporter of the legislative agenda of "angry blacks, hysterical women, and the like" for unbroken decades of his political career". We can argue about how effective he has been separately - lots of people haven't been extremely successful at fighting sexism and racism based on the state of the nation, but are you challenging the simple fact that Sanders opposes racism? Why is he being singled out by his race on this score?

He sure wasn't very effective when he was in a tiny handful of elected white officials who endorsed Jessie Jackson for President. It seems almost the entire Democratic Party was having difficulty warming to the idea of a black man as President back in 1998:

"During the 1988 Democratic Presidential Primaries, Rev. Jesse Jackson emerged as a viable contender for the Democratic nomination against establishment-backed Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis. An ardent supporter of Mr. Jackson’s presidential bid was Bernie Sanders—then mayor of Burlington, Vermont. During a Democratic caucus, Mr. Sanders gave a speech in support of Mr. Jackson while Democrats in the room turned their backs—and, as he walked off stage, a woman slapped him across the face. Mr. Sanders was one of the few elected officials to cross racial lines and openly endorse Mr. Jackson, ultimately helping Mr. Jackson win Vermont against Mr. Dukakis by one delegate in 1988."
http://observer.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-was-slapped-for-supporting-jesse-jackson-in-88/

I have no problem with anyone thinking a different political leader than Bernie Sanders may be better equipped to address the nuances of racism in America today - that's a fine topic for discussion. But Bernie Sanders gets treated here like he was a close personally ally of Jeff Sessions. The facts fly in the face of that and you know it.

[NCTraveler]

104. Fallacy

Your framing is pretty damn interesting - those are your words, not mine. Why are you stressing that Bernie Sanders is white when 48 other members of the Senate Democratic Caucus are also white? And yes sure I would love to vote more minorities into Congress - Vermont is unlikely to be ground zero for that though.

Tone policing: "I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want" Bernie Sanders

And I never said they weren't my words. I think it's hilarious to watch people trip over themselves trying to make him out to be a victim.

[Tom Rinaldo]

106. How many other exchanges from the 2016 primary debates do you want to relive here now?

We have a term for that around here. I think it's somewhere in the rules.

[NCTraveler]

110. I understand his tone policing of women must be a little uncomfortable.

Specially considering the op is trying to make him out to be a victim of tone policing.

Please don't make this about the larger topic of the primaries. If you don't like the tone policing of Sanders toward women then just move along. Don't go for hides.

[Tom Rinaldo]

117. I haven't had a hide in over 5 years - I could get ganged up on I suppose

I don't attack people, I am honest about my opinions. I think you just want Bernie to "go away". Correct me if I'm wrong. At least I've seen that exact thought expressed often by some here. If the tables were reversed, or when there is a hint of such sentiments expressed anywhere in the political world about Hillary Clinton needing to "go away" the reaction in thermonuclear. And I can understand that. But i sense more than a little hypocrisy when the shoe is on the other foot. Bernie Sanders is a sitting U.S. Senator in the Democratic Caucus. He is not going away. If he is sponsoring some legislation that you oppose that might be a good topic for discussion.

[NCTraveler]

125. "I think you just want Bernie to "go away"."

He just got here. I don't expect him to go anywhere. I think "want" is an accurate word. I accept that.

"If he is sponsoring some legislation that you oppose that might be a good topic for discussion."

Sounds like a good topic. How many pieces of legislation has he sponsored in his extremely long career that have gone through to become law?

What legislation is he currently sponsoring?

[NurseJackie]

132. So, if I wanted to find a list of his major legislative accomplishments, where would I look?

Is there like a website or something? Would it be on his personal web page on one of the government sites? Maybe on his campaign or fundraising site? Politicians like to boast of their legislative accomplishments, so I'm sure it must be out there somewhere.

[Tom Rinaldo]

135. I was offering a topic to answer what makes Sandres so worthy of constant attack to some here

For example, if Bernie Sanders were pushing some privatization initiative, that would be something people might feel an obligation to fight him on. Or if he was pushing to relax elements of Dodd Frank for another example.Or seeking restrictions on Abortion, or cuts to child nutritional programs

Whether or not Sanders is effective is a debate I am willing to have after the midterms if it appears at that point that he may intend to run for President again. Because then we can debate between candidates on our side, which one is better for which reason or reasons. There are different ways to define effective, we can get into that later. Right now some are going out of their way it seems to find critical things to say about Bernie Sanders. Even if I were to 100% agree with you that Sanders is an ineffective legislator (ignoring other aspects of what might be accomplishing), do you find significant fault with his voting record then?

I bet you have no idea about the legislative record of the majority of members of the Democratic Caucus, nor should that matter to you if they do not represent you personally and they are not announced candidates for an office that you will get to vote on.

Meanwhile there are more posts on DU attacking Bernie Sanders than there are attacking Scott Pruitt, when the latter's future hangs in the balance. Bernie Sanders voted against Pruitt by the way. Does that upset you about him?

[NCTraveler]

138. While he is campaigning.

What major legislation is he sponsoring?

Go back to the beginning of his extremely long career.

We can talk about his opposition to a pathwway to citizenship. As he fought against a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people, dishonestly claiming it was because of visas, what happened to the ten plus million and what happened to visas since then?

The reasons for the attacks of Sanders are clear and righteous in nature. He has earned these attacks. He wants to be President after a borderline useless career.

[Tom Rinaldo]

142. We are not in primary season. There are no declared candidates

There are mid term elections approaching in less than 7 months. Discussion boards that prominently feature attacks on members of our Democratic Coalition (which Sanders is in the Senate) are a turn off to many, starting with but not completely limited to those who have positive feelings for the person in question. In Sanders case there are millions who still view him favorably who come to places like Democratic Underground for a positive experience. This isn't that, and it creates a condition that is counter productive for all of us as a result.

Primary season is still approaching, unless you are still stuck in the last one.

[Jim Lane]

72. Very good analysis!

There's just one point where I'm not sure you're correct. You write: "The agenda is to diminish Bernie Sanders personally as a political force."

There's certainly some element of that, but I don't think the incessant Bernie-bashing is entirely driven by such careful calculations. I agree instead with what you wrote in your concluding paragraph:

What does explain it is a conviction that some here have that Bernie Sanders must be stopped (if it is framed as fighting the next primary) or punished ( if it is framed as fighting the last primary).

All of us are upset that Trump became President. I think a lot what we see is an understandable (but regrettable) emotional reaction: "Hillary lost the general election, Bernie had criticized Hillary during the primaries, therefore Bernie is evil." It's as if Trump, who campaigned throughout the primaries by making personal attacks on "Lying Ted" and "Little Marco", would never have thought of saying "Crooked Hillary" if Bernie hadn't called for single-payer health care.

At this point, Bernie could absolutely and unequivocally take himself out of the 2020 race, and some people would continue lashing out at him.

[RandomAccess]

116. THIS A Million Time THIS --

Thank you, Tom.

I also tried to explain on one of the "he's no damn good where race is concerned" thread that he was SWIFTBOATED by our own side in the Primary. Very effectively, too. So effectively, the frontrunner's racial sins were forgiven and overlooked and some of Bernie's actual contributions and positive actions were either ignored or derided.

Near as I can tell it started with John Lewis's proclamation that he "never saw Bernie" back then but he DID see Bill and Hillary. It was an outright lie, though at the time it just sounded a bit like hyperbole.

It breaks my heart to see this happen, and really makes it harder to be one of those UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORTIVE Democrats so many people here seem to think is essential.

Thanks for speaking up. I'd love it if you made this an OP.

[EffieBlack]

118. I missed the "he's no damn good where race is concerned" threads

Would you please post a link so I can go in an join you in objecting to such a claim?

[RandomAccess]

121. Links are too numerous to mention, Effie

And you know it.

There's also something called "damning with faint praise" which you seem to be familiar with, based on your own recent thread on Bernie.

[EffieBlack]

123. Then don't post them all. But if they're so numerous, it shouldn't be difficult to post 2 or 3.

Thanks.

[RandomAccess]

126. Okay -- here ya go

Just go thru this thread and you'll find quite a few: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210467471

And don't forget your own thread, as I said: damning with faint praise

[EffieBlack]

129. This isnt a "Bernie's no damned good on civil rights" thread

And you say there are some posts in this thread that say that, but I don't see them. Would you please point out one or two specific posts that actually say that?

And I don't know to which of my threads you're referring, but you might want to cite to it specifically, since I'm not aware of any of my threads that alleged any such thing. And since "damning with false praise" isn't even close to alleging that someone is "no damned good on civil rights," throwing in that sentence fragment means nothing.

[karin_sj]

156. Agree 100 percent!

It makes you wonder why this is all happening right now and why there is such a single minded, coordinated effort to drag up so many things from the past and pounce on him for whatever he is currently involved in. When he was actually running, I didn't see his name dragged through the mud as much as it is now, so long after the primary—and by people in our own party. He's not perfect, but as Democrats, we should be more focused on defeating the republicans in the primaries than focusing on alienating and insulting the many, many people (especially young people) who still like and support Sanders. Arguing, bickering, mocking, and insulting fellow Democrats who have a different opinion is not helpful to the ultimate goal of taking back the House and Senate, and stopping the horrors that Trump is inflicting on our country on a daily basis.

[AtomicKitten]

161. Your post is pinned on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/8b04z7/from_twitter_a_democracy_underground_poster/

[disillusioned73]

186. K&R this post..

[dembotoz]

29. at least when kerry was swift boated it was done by the gop.....

[bahrbearian]

49. Its amazing how twisted it is.

[dembotoz]

73. actually got the idea from a post further up...so twist away

[dsc]

36. He wasn't on the pro side of marriage equality until his state adopted it

he was in favor of states making the decision but he opposed his own state doing so while he ran in 2006. He is on tape doing so. I am not saying he should be criticized over and above others for the same position they had but I am saying we shouldn't rewrite history either.

[irisblue]

137. From Slate.com OCT. 5 2015 3:05 PM by Mark Joseph Stern

Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. It’s Just Not True. (Whole article online) some excerpts
..."As proof of his pro-LGBT credentials, Sanders frequently touts his opposition in 1996 to the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages. But Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMA—but purely on states’ rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, San
ders was neutral at best and hostile at worst....But Sanders’ efforts to parlay this vote into indisputable proof of his marriage equality bona fides ring hollow in light of his statements at the time. Explaining his vote in 1996, Sanders’ chief of staff told the Rutland Herald that Sanders’ vote was motivated by a concern for states’ rights, not equality. Explaining that he wasn’t “legislating values,” she noted that Sanders believed DOMA violated the Constitution’s Full Faith and Credit Clause by allowing one state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage performed in another. “You’re opening up Pandora’s box here,” she said told the Burlington Free Press at the time. “You’re saying that any state can refuse to … recognize the laws of another state if they don’t like them.”...
Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told the Associated Press that he was “comfortable” with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too “divisive.”) "

I cannot c&p the whole article (TOS& copyright).
It is less then a 10 min read.

Sanders has evolved, but I disagree with redgreenandblue assertion that he was there on LGBTQ equality & rights " far before the Democratic mainstream." The mayor of Columbus Ohio, Mike Coleman, was already supporting LQBTQ equality then, I lnow this because I was volunteer working on Pride Parades then.
I do agree with dsc, trying to rewrite history isn't going to work. It's easy to check written & archieved statements now.

As an Independent, aligned with the Democratic Party, he's truly an interesting philosophical mix.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

169. Bernie was for "state's rights" because DOMA made it illegal for states that were...

.... in the process of legalizing gay unions to legalize gay unions.

DOMA was pure hypocrisy on the part of so called conservatives who claimed to be for state's rights. Bernie and other allies were calling them on their bullshit and using their argument against them. And rightfully so.

To claim that Bernie was some evil "state's rights" advocate was disingenuous bullshit when that article was written and it is still disingenuous bullshit today.

In this case "the states" like Vermont, California and Massachusetts were granting rights that the federal government was unconstitutionally taking away with DOMA. This absolutely was a 14th amendment issue and the resultant "state's rights" issue and the Supreme Court eventually agreed.

[BoneyardDem]

37. Bernie presses his own agenda every time.

ramming his thoughts and positions on as if everyone who doesn't agree are all in the wrong.

There is something to be said for realizing that politicians are in a position not express their own personal views, and standards and policies, but to represent the desires of their constituency.

[LiberalLovinLug]

47. what the hell is "his own agenda" or his "own personal views, and standards and policies"?

If you go on his website, Our Revolution, his issues are

https://ourrevolution.com/issues/income-inequality/

Income Inequality
College Tuition
Big Money in Politics
Foreign Policy
Immigration
Creating Decent Paying Jobs
A Living Wage
Climate Change
Racial Justice
Net Neutrality
Puerto Rico
Affordable Housing
Women's Rights
AIDS and HIV
LGBT Equality
Empowering Tribal Nations
Caring for Our Veterans
Medicare for All
Strengthen Social Security
Prescription Drug Prices
Disability Rights
TPP


Please enlighten us as to which issues you think he should be concerned with? Which ones are just his own personal "agenda" and should be removed?

And, if a Democrat-in-name speaks on one or more of these same issues, does that mean they are also 'ramming' their thoughts and positions on everyone?

Seriously the hate on here for one of Democrats most tireless ally's is pathetic.

[BoneyardDem]

62. There's nothing new, creative or unique in most of the list...

You mention a list of topics but never how he plans and touts the corrective measures. This is often the sticking point where he does not mesh with many. His campaigning processes and insertion of himself, his taking credit for others work is widely criticized. His derogatory comments towards Dems, the harm he has caused to the only party that has a hope of defeating Trump are well documented for those who chose to see with eyes wide open. This list is a Trumpian type of talking point. Missing are the details. Lots and lots of talking points...no actual measurable action or implementation.

Seriously the hate on here for one of Democrats most tireless ally's is pathetic.

You know what is pathetic? Taking a 40 year politician, pretending he's not "establishment", pretending that he is an ally of the Dems, with little to no measurable achievements, and pressing the person on a Dem board as if he warrants our votes and serious consideration. Want to talk about his gun manufacture advocacy talking points? How about the constant press that economic issues are the final cure for all social injustices? How about his sex essays? There are plenty of things that Bernie has touted for years that addresses only what HE thinks is important and ignores his constituency.

But since he so dislikes the Dems....why do you think many of us should listen to his attempt at dismantling the party and remaking it in his own image. If he's such a great advocate for Dems, why is he doing his darnedest to damage the Party?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10468164

[LiberalLovinLug]

98. Again.....what do you mean?

When you proclaim that he "addresses only what HE thinks is important and ignores his constituency"? Again, please list the issues that he says are important and how they are not what his constituency wants as well?

and yes, he has contributed to measurable achievements. Do you really want me to list all the bills he has sponsored? All the issues he has forced the media to talk about? He obviously does not 'dislike' Dems. He works alongside them every day. And how is finally addressing why Democrats had been steadily losing seats and support across the country and looking for ways to connect again more with average Democrats, damaging the party? How do you possibly come to that conclusion?

[EffieBlack]

66. Most of those are MY issues, too - but I don't need a politician to tell me what the issues are

I want them to present some solutions and tell me how they're going to go about achieving them.

Without that, this is just a list of stuff.

[Me.]

41. Tone Policed

[Cha]

170. Really, Me.. what

does that even mean?

I see BS out there making statements that many of us do NOT like, and we're calling him on it.. straight up.

So that's too "toney" according to the OP?

[Me.]

184. There's A Tone All Right

and it belongs to him

[DownriverDem]

44. One more time

BERNIE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!! Get over Bernie.

[vsrazdem]

50. OMG. You sound exactly like the GOP telling us to get over Trump. Please stop.

[sammythecat]

74. Don't give a shit

[Kurt V.]

48. K&R

[BobTheSubgenius]

52. The oldest person ever elected President was Reagan.

He was 73, almost 74. Bernie would be 79 when he hypothetically assumes office. I don't thing "spitting distance from 80" is going to be a big drawing card. Certainly, any misstep, or slip of the tongue or memory is going to be "Is Bernie Sanders already in dementia???"

[all american girl]

53. You want to know who is tone policed every day

women and POC. I don't feel sorry for a white guy, who is in his 70's, and has been in politics since 1981, never figuring out how to talk to and about POC and women. He will be "tone policed" when he steps on again. Maybe, just maybe, if he learned to listen to POC and women, he might learn who to talk to us. So please, don't tell us that he gets a pass because white guys liked him. He will be held to the same standard that other politicians are held at.

[Eliot Rosewater]

61. Best post of the day, I should stop now, but i wont

[all american girl]

63. Oh Eliot, you are making me blush

[EffieBlack]

67. Perfect - thanks.

[David__77]

69. Calling him white in this context negates the fact that Jews are subject to racist anti-Semitism.

That's my opinion, in any event.

That said, I think there are plenty of bases on which to criticize Bernie Sanders.

[all american girl]

79. Yes, I agree with that

But on the public stage of politics, he has been afforded the white male privilege that POC and women aren't, but you are correct.

[David__77]

81. I do not disagree.

There certainly are unique problems encountered by different groups of people, including, for instance, women and black people.

[Gothmog]

78. Great post

[Cha]

185. Excellent post, all american girl!

Thank you!

[all american girl]

189. Thank you Cha!!!

[revmclaren]

71. The 'Tone Police'

The tone police
They live inside of my head
The tone police
They come to me in my bed
The tone police
They're coming to get Bernie
Oh no.....

(With apologies to Cheap Trick)

Its all becoming a bad joke being over played by Bernie 'fans'.

But as I said in a previous post...

The vetting has finally begun.

Get used to it!

Only in 2018 - 2020

[all american girl]

75. Here is "tone policing"

too emotional
not emotional enough
clothes are too expensive, wrong color, off the rack, etc
need to smile more
Oh that laugh...
being held responsible for what white men actually do
need to apologize for everything, that no white man ever has to do
over prepared
Oh that voice, it hurts my ears
someone gets into your physical space and can't call them out, because you are weak
Oh, weak, in general
Any misstep, crucified, even over the silliest things.


These are some of the tone policing that POC and women navigate every day of their lives.

[mcar]

85. Too shrill

Too ambitious
Cackle
How dare a woman get paid to give speeches?

This list goes on and on...

[EffieBlack]

89. And what's with her hair?

[all american girl]

92. Oh yeah, one of my favorites.

[mcar]

109. And her clothes?

They're too bright, too dull, too loose, too tight.

[all american girl]

91. Thank you

I had so many things going thru my mind, that I kept forgetting

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

155. +1

[Hekate]

77. Every syllable Hillary utters is ripped apart, even at DU. There are "progressives" ...

...who want nothing more than for Hillary Clinton to STFU and never again say a word in public.

Many accomplished Democratic women are deemed "too old" by young male progressives, are told they should gracefully retire or be chucked out of office so they can be replaced by young male progressives, and the young and inexperienced are only too happy to repeat Right Wing smears that have been around before they were born.

As far as St Bernie goes -- he's been in politics a loooooong time. This was just his first foray into the glaring light of national politics. That is a whole other category than being the Senator-for-life of a very small state where everybody knows your foibles and there hasn't been a bruising contest for your seat in decades.

PS: Bernie Sanders is STILL not a Democrat; he just feels free to knock the party he doesn't belong to at every turn.
PPS: Hillary Clinton STILL won the primaries against him, and STILL won the general election despite a massive conspiracy.

[Orsino]

83. He stepped into the big leagues....

...and is getting a little taste of what Hillary Clinton faced for decades.

He's not complaining about it, at least, but one does not simply walk away from primarying Hillary...especially when also leaving the Democratic Party.

[NCTraveler]

94. Tone policing would be insinuating...

One of the most accomplished women in the country needs to stop “shouting” about an issue.

"As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I hope all of us would want, and that is to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing."


No mention of ideas. No path forward. Just a cheap and sexist shot. True tone policing.

I’m going to stop by every now and then to remind you what tone policing is.

[Chakaconcarne]

95. Awesome... Another bash Bernie thread...

Not helpful no matter what you think of him... No matter what you think of his future ambitions or where he does or doesn't fit with Democrats....

He is against Trump and the GOP....

and we need him for that..... at least.

But, carry on if you could give a crap and want that extra edge to go to the opposition.

Hope you feel better.

[LexVegas]

102. Uh...what?

[NCTraveler]

108. Maybe this is the tone he was looking for when he accused Clinton of "shouting".

Some people think that the people who voted for Trump are racists and sexists and homophobes and deplorable folks. I don't agree, because I've been there.

Bernie Sanders

I think he should worry about his own tone. It's ain't pretty.

[NCTraveler]

113. Tone Policing

“People sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama, who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012." Bernie Sanders

[EffieBlack]

114. But, but that was a COMPLIMENT!

Don't you know?

[NCTraveler]

115. I have a lot of tone policing comments toward Obama and Clinton on the way.

I'm convinced the op doesn't really get how the term is used against women and minorities.

It is what I expect from the Sanders Independents, sad to say.

[EffieBlack]

120. "Bernie became popular with the white working class in 2016 because spoke...about economics to them"

The black working class have the same economic concerns that the white working class have. Why didn't he become popular with them? Was it because he didn't speak about economics to them? Or do you think there was another reason?

[redgreenandblue]

149. He did if you look at actual polling data.

His approval rating among African Americans is pretty decent. And among women and Hispanics. He polls worst with white males.

In 2016 his approval was on an upward trend across all demographics.

[EffieBlack]

151. Cite/Link?

[redgreenandblue]

164. Mostly 538

[EffieBlack]

177. Do you have an actual cite or link to the numbers you gave?

[redgreenandblue]

180. I'm sure you've seen this chart:

It is the most recent I can quickly find. But I think this chart is much more interesting:



It basically shows that the slope of of his approval rating was similar with black or white voters, only that he lagged behind with non-whites by a couple of months. It took him until October 2015 to arrive at where he was with whites in July. It decided the primaries for sure, but beyond that, it takes a lot of imagination to spin such a 3 month lag into some profound narrative, given that the endpoint was a rather high approval rating.

Also, interesting fact: In the primaries Bernie tied Hillary with blacks below the age of 35. I'm not going to google that now though. It is information that is readily available to anyone who cares.

[EffieBlack]

182. Thanks.

[NCTraveler]

128. A whole segment of Joe S was dedicated to Clintons voice. That's tone policing.

[NCTraveler]

130. Geraldo about Clinton. Again, this is tone policing.

"Why are you screaming like that? … When you shriek that way it's such an unpleasant." Geraldo Rivera

[NCTraveler]

131. Chris Plante on Clinton.

"I find Hillary Clinton's voice to be shrill. It sounds like a cat being dragged across a blackboard." Chris Plante

[NCTraveler]

133. I wonder if the poor oppressed tone policed guy will ever deal with crap like this.

True tone policing.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1EODB_enUS545US545&biw=1920&bih=949&ei=P7fLWs_rO5Kl_Qae-YgQ&q=clinton+cackle&oq=clinton+cackle&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30k1l3.24273.26792.0.28087.14.14.0.0.0.0.137.1305.11j3.14.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.14.1305...46j0i67k1j0i131i67k1j0i46i67k1j46i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i10k1.0.wmWxuo3BFPY

[Tom Rinaldo]

136. I agree n/t

[Sophia4]

139. How America will react to the various candidates in 2020 remains to be seen.

I would not predict.

The country is going through a time of rapid change.

Trump's policies' effects are not yet felt.

And we don't know what kind of health problems may develop in the potential candidates or the president.

One of my friends who is younger than I had a stroke yesterday.

A good reminder to live one day at a time.

[Blue_Tires]

140. If you think Bernie has been "tone policed"

Then Hillary says hi

[NurseJackie]

148. Exactly!

[VOX]

157. Downright tone gestapo-ed.

Thank you!

[VOX]

158. I hear he walks on water.

After the Democrats have mapped all the stepping-stones in the lake.

[NCTraveler]

143. You haven't seen them talk about Clintons cackle?

Angry Obama?

Sanders is the wort "tone policing" you have ever seen?

Solid.

[TheSmarterDog]

145. Bernie Sanders is not your savior.

He'd be a good ally to have - if only he could leave his ego aside.

[NCTraveler]

159. Some more tone police.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210470350

[Lil Missy]

168. Bernie who???