Hold on just one minute here.

[sheshe2]

The title:

Demand forces city to change venue for Bernie Sanders, Mayor Lumumba town hall

The first paragraph:

High demand to see U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders join Jackson Mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba in Jackson next week has forced the city to find a more accommodating venue.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2018/03/30/demand-forces-city-change-venue-bernie-sanders-mayor-lumumba-town-hall/474303002/

Neither the title nor the first paragraph mentions Rev. Martin Luther King Jr the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of his assassination. In fact, Martin Luther King is not even mentioned until the second paragraph. As you can see above the change of venue and high demand is being attributed to Sanders and Lumumba and those dying to see these two men. For all the hoorahs for this town hall in Jackson two men are now being said to be the drawing force of the crowds and NOT DOCTOR MARTIN LUTHER KING on the 50th anniversary of his death?

I call bullshit.

No one seems to realize that the demand, change of venue and interest came from a large black community that comes to honor Martin and not Bernie or Chokwe.

...............

This is Martin Luther King

Most of you have no idea what Martin Luther King actually did
By HamdenRice

What most people who reference Dr. King seem not to know is how Dr. King actually changed the subjective experience of life in the United States for African Americans. And yeah, I said for African Americans, not for Americans, because his main impact was his effect on the lives of African Americans, not on Americans in general. His main impact was not to make white people nicer or fairer. That's why some of us who are African Americans get a bit possessive about his legacy. Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy, despite what our civil religion tells us, is not color blind.

snip

At this point, I would like to remind everyone exactly what Martin Luther King did, and it wasn't that he "marched" or gave a great speech.

My father told me with a sort of cold fury, "Dr. King ended the terror of living in the south."

Please let this sink in...

snip

They made black people experience the worst of the worst, collectively, that white people could dish out, and discover that it wasn't that bad. They taught black people how to take a beating—from the southern cops, from police dogs, from fire department hoses. They actually coached young people how to crouch, cover their heads with their arms and take the beating. They taught people how to go to jail, which terrified most decent people.

snip

Once the beating was over, we were free.


It wasn't the Civil Rights Act, or the Voting Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act that freed us. It was taking the beating and thereafter not being afraid. So, sorry Mrs. Clinton, as much as I admire you, you were wrong on this one. Our people freed ourselves and those Acts, as important as they were, were only white people officially recognizing what we had done.


Read More: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/08/29/1011562/-Most-of-you-have-no-idea-what-Martin-Luther-King-actually-did

This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie. Martin is the headliner here , not you. He knows of what he speaks, it is not just the economy. It is taking the beating for your civil rights and still stand as a man.

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. Who are you ranting at here? The writer of the article?

[sheshe2]

2. Which article?

The OPs that have appeared praising the town hall? Or the one that was written by Hamden Rice?

[Docreed2003]

3. I truly hope that Bernie will honor the purpose of that rally

Won't be watching though because the wife and I are traveling to Memphis for the anniversary. Will post pics when we get back sheshe!

[sheshe2]

4. I wish I could join you, Docreed.

Last edited Sat Mar 31, 2018, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Please tag me when you post the pics. I want to see it through your eyes. I am tied up with homecare with mom and miss so much.

Thanks.

[Docreed2003]

11. Definitely will!

We have no idea what to expect...Memphis is one of my old stomping grounds, too close not to go, and we're going down Tues night and Wed is a day we're planning on being up early and hanging near the Loraine to take in the moment and pay our tribute to Dr King! (Not gonna lie, I hope we get some Gus' fried chicken for lunch, which is right around the corner. The best damn fried chicken in the world!!! Even GQ says it's worth dropping everything and eating there!)

[sheshe2]

13. Thanks.

Enjoy your day and the Gus' fried chicken.

I hope you see an outpouring of support for Martin.

[calimary]

205. I hope so, too.

Dr. King is a cornerstone of a real revolution that the rest of us, including Bernie, took up in the decades that followed. I can't believe it's been 50 years...

[NCTraveler]

5. I think whats being done is sad.

At every step it is self-promotion. There is a name for it in politics. Campaigning.

Here is some serious commentary:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210435219

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210434166

[sheshe2]

7. Oh...

He looked down [over the balcony, into the parking lot] at Ben Branch, who we had heard play “Precious Lord” on the saxophone two weeks before in Chicago. He said, ”Please do my favorite song tonight,” and he raised his head and…pow. Bullet hit him right in the neck. We heard someone say, “Get low. Get low. Get …”

Crying.

[Me.]

97. Damn sheshe

did not see that coming.

[sheshe2]

100. Hey me...

[murielm99]

36. Both of these are wonderful articles,

written by men who lived it. Elijah Cummings speaks of that terrible time. Then the assassination of RFK was only one month later. Cummings says it is often darkest before the dawn, and I hope he is right about how that reflects on the present time.

[JCanete]

141. right...cuz Sanders gets there and just talks about his brand...and not the fucking issues that

actually matter, that actually affect black lives and the lives of everybody...."Blah blah blah... Bernie can you just go away with all your ego driven complaints about the system and let us live in the blissful ignorance of thinking everything is fine if you just pull a lever in the voting booth..."

While pattently absurd that Sanders' commitment to these issues is about himself(Taibbi said Sanders used to get together with him and other reporters and tell them they needed to give certain stories more coverage-not stories about him or even his solutions for christs' sake-but stories taht the media simply has no interest in covering, or may even have found inconvenient to cover.)

And in the end who cares? The take-down of the man...the attack on the man when he addresses issues that you presumably care about, otherwise I'd expect you to attack them instead...is what is truly sad. I could give two fucks if somebody's ego is what made him use his spotlight to bring important discussion to the people. Why is that your focus?

[NCTraveler]

155. Happy Monday. The campaign continues.

Last edited Mon Apr 2, 2018, 07:35 AM - Edit history (1)

When did he start traveling the country at this pace? Before or after he hit seventy? Now, before that, what was his career?

Obvious is obvious. I think he is better suited for a listening tour over that of the campaign circuit. Try to learn why he has had such a limited impact over such a long career as a politician.

[JCanete]

160. You have to know why things have changed. He is touring because he has visibility because

outreach when you actually have people listening to you is valuable. I'm quite clear on what his career has been up to this point, and have appreciated the honesty with which he has spoken to the small pockets of people who have heard him over the years, that goes back to his weekly call-ins on Tom Hartmann, etc.

Also, you have to know why he has had such a limiited impact as a Senator. YOu have to. Why would you even use that line of attack? I'm pretty sure he has a diagnosis for that, you just want to brush that one under the rug. The only way you could pretend that his impact had to do with his inability to convince people in Washington of his vision is if you actually believed that people in Washington were convincible of anything. There is ideology, and there is politics, and those politicians who you would point to as having done stuff...well that stuff has come with a lot of compromise, sometimes significant compromise or voting quid-pro-quo that at the end of the day adds up to some good bills and some really shitty bills that have haunted our nation. So the question is, what does your addition look like when you talk about accomplishment? Do you do any subtraction?

[NCTraveler]

162. "you have to know why he has had such a limiited impact as a Senator."

I do.

"some really shitty bills that have haunted our nation."

Solid point. Blocking a pathway to citizenship for millions has haunted us. The explanation given makes his move even worse.

[JCanete]

163. Cool, so you are just going to use my words against me to try to be cute rather than to make an

argument. I'm using your metric for limited impact, not mine. I explained to you why yours was problematic. You found one vote, which I don't even know what you're referring to to show how Sanders may have a middling vote history.

[NCTraveler]

164. "so you are just going to use my words against me to try to be cute"

No. I didn't use a single thing against you. It was about Sanders.

"You found one vote"

Calling siding with Republicans to oppress minorities as "one vote" is a bit minimizing to millions still living in fear today.

[JCanete]

165. first of all, it is one vote, nobody's record is perfect unfortunately, but I still don't even know

what legislation you are referring to.

[NCTraveler]

166. I can't take this seriously.

The legislation almost passed. Sanders worked with the Republicans to make sure that didn't happen. All we needed was for Sanders to join forces with the likes of Obama, Biden, Boxer..., and we might have had it.

I'm finding that few know Sanders less than his own supporters.

How many times has Sanders turned down the Democratic Parties nomination after securing it in a primary?

[JCanete]

167. what legislation so I can look it up? I've probably already seen it and disagree with your

characterization, but your characterization makes it sound like something I've never heard of. Just point it out. Fuck

[NCTraveler]

169. You can find it.

You will also find the only characterization of opposing that bill is inherently racist. Something you are not.

I can’t believe you would jump in like this and you don’t even know him. I had a second question above as well. How many times has he secured the democratic nomination in a primary just to turn it down?

[JCanete]

170. As to your second question, I don't know, but since on its face I don't get what it is supposed to

say, until you explain your beef with it I don't have an opinion one way or another. So you are actually calling Sanders racist though. that was his motivation for the vote. The only possible characterization. So when I go searching and I find no such bill, we'll still be here, trying to figure out what the other person is talking about. I have a feeling you're talking about the visa program that was a far cry from something like amnesty and would have actually kept immigrants under corporation thumbs, depressing wages of the sector because these workers would have had little rights whatsoever. If that is the legislation, then no, there is not simply one reading of it.

[NCTraveler]

171. I did not call Sanders a racist.

I haven’t seen him stand up for that horrific vote anytime recently.

What legislation are you talking about? Those matters cannot be conflated as you have done. That’s a funny abstract. Seems I might have been a wee bit wrong in my assumption above. That’s worse of an explanation than I normally see.

[JCanete]

172. this is why you should do us the courtesy and point to the legislation you are referring to, since

you made the claim and invoked it.

Also, if we are even talking about the same legislation, which you, knowing what legislation you are talking about are being coy with, then it would serve you and your perspective better to tell me why my explanation is bad.

[JCanete]

173. wait, are you referring to your assumption that I'm not a racist? did you just do that or am I

misunderstanding you?

[sheshe2]

203. OMG.

This is the 50th anniversary of his death and you rant on about Sanders.

You talk about Sanders talking about...as you put it "the fucking issues that actually matter.

JCanete
141. right...cuz Sanders gets there and just talks about his brand...and not the fucking issues that

actually matter, that actually affect black lives and the lives of everybody...."Blah blah blah... Bernie can you just go away with all your ego driven complaints about the system and let us live in the blissful ignorance of thinking everything is fine if you just pull a lever in the voting booth..."

Where is he in VT? The state he is Senator for? Where is he?

Where is he on racial justice in HIS OWN STATE? They have the 4th highest incarceration rate for blacks in the nation.

Figure 1 provides a national view of the concentration of prisoners by race and ethnicity as a proportion of their representation in the state’s overall general population, or the rate per 100,000 residents. Looking at the average state rates of incarceration, we see that overall blacks are incarcerated at a rate of 1,408 per 100,000 while whites are incarcerated at a rate of 275 per 100,000. This means that blacks are incarcerated at a rate that is 5.1 times that of whites. This national look also shows that Hispanics are held in state prisons at an average rate of 378 per 100,000, producing a disparity ratio of 1.4:1 compared to whites.

The following tables present state rates of incarceration according to their rank. Table 1 shows how racial disparities play out at the state level. The states with the highest rate of African American (male and female) incarceration are Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Vermont, Iowa, and Idaho.


Table 1. Incarceration rates per 100,000 by race, by black (male and female) incarceration rate

State
White
Black
Hispanic


Oklahoma
580
2625
530

Wisconsin*
221
2542
563

Vermont*
225
2357
Not Provided

Iowa
211
2349
361

Idaho
458
2160
619

http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons

...............................

Where is he, J? If he will not stand for blacks in his own state, then presumes to honor MLK.........

[JCanete]

204. He is responsible for voting on federal policy. What are you citing that suggests

he doesn't care or doesn't ever address these things or speak to his constituents about them? He has certainly talked about this issue writ large. He has not brushed it under the rug. It is certainly part of the story he's telling. How much time did Clinton devote to ending stop and frisk while she was a senator cuz it certainly didn't slow down. But perhaps you have different standards for different senators and the responsibility they personally bear for conditions in their own state.

[Eliot Rosewater]

214. I dont know what to say anymore. If every able bodied person doesnt show up in november and vote

for ANY democrat no MATTER who supports that democrat and who doesnt.

If every politician doesnt PUT ASIDE personal desires long enough to kick the NAZI'S out of the WH, we will all lose and many will lose their lives.

[rgbecker]

6. Dear Jesus, Bernie is going straight to their heads!

If his popularity isn't shut down soon, we'll all be living with Medicare for all. Thanks sheshe2 for keeping our eyes on the prize and the man who won it and off progressive lefties.

[sheshe2]

10. Hey, rg.

6. Dear Jesus, Bernie is going straight to their heads!

If his popularity isn't shut down soon, we'll all be living with Medicare for all. Thanks sheshe2 for keeping our eyes on the prize and the man who won it and off progressive lefties.

Are you on Medicare? I just started and frankly it sucks and sure is not cheap or free. To You and Bernie.

Cheers.

[NBachers]

30. I'm on Medicare. I can barely afford it, and I'm doing without care and medicine

I'm working full-time, and I can't afford the supplementals. That means I've got to minimize my doctor visits and cut back on medicine I need because I can't afford it. I was prescribed some eye drops, and it was going to cost me four hundred bucks a month! This is life on Medicare.

[sheshe2]

35. I know, NBachers.

Yet everyone tells us, the ones that are on it that it is the best of the best for all. I did far better with ACA. Hmmm go figure.

Stay well my friend.

[progressoid]

117. Do you have to be on Medicare?

There are lots of private insurers who would love to get your business.

[KPN]

81. Huh? Not cheap? Here in Oregon it seems

really cheap. Part A costs nothing, Part B is like $107/month and covers 75-85% of all costs excluding prescriptions, Part D (which I don't have because I don't have any maintenance prescriptions and only rarely require prescrip drugs) seems relatively cheap based on my consideration of it in the past, and ditto the supplemental plans available to me here. As I recall, if I had gotten D and a supplemental, I was looking at about $300 not a month -- so an overall total for pretty much full coverage of about $5000 a year or $415/month. It would cost me 4-5 times that for comparable coverage in the private health insurance market.

Also, keep in mind if we were to expand Medicare to all, the price would drop even further. Plans B and D, and supplemental plans are priced specifically for those who are qualified for Medicare (people 65 and older).

[brush]

86. Medicare is a whole lot cheaper than what employers take out of your check for healthcare.

[sheshe2]

103. No it is not and also...

Does not provide dental unless you pay extra for it.

[brush]

131. I had to pay 3k in deductibles before employer health care kicked in. Now I pay about $70 a month.

Co-pays did go up to $40 as I chose that option instead of the $100 a month plan.

I comes out of your social security so you don't really miss it.

I'm speaking of my experience so I don't know about those who had to get their own healthcare while working.

And that's like most working people as Medicare doesn't kick in until you reach 65.

[brush]

132. What about your employer healthcare?

[sheshe2]

145. You mean the one

You mean the one I had before they fired my ass for being old? Gave me info for Cobra...lol 650 per month. I said fugg you. I was on unemployment and was able to apply for ACA...45 per month, dental 14. Dental paid for little. health care was awesome.

As for work insurance when I was there..I would have to look it up for exact figures yet similar to Medicare, a tad less..yet covered dental benefits.

[spooky3]

115. Medicare is expensive for people who are still working

And is higher for those with higher incomes, and for people not working but who made more when working, for some time after retiring.

[Agschmid]

8. Stop.

Just stop.

[sheshe2]

9. What exactly do you wish me to stop, Agshimid

I wish a lot of bullshit would stop as well. I am sick and tired of hearing all about the economy and that it will fix it all.

[Agschmid]

15. It would fix a lot.

[sheshe2]

19. It will not fix social justice.

Last edited Sat Mar 31, 2018, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

You know that and do not tell me otherwise.

It would not help women. lgbt. poc. all. You care for at least one of those catagories, I sure hope more, yet you say economic justice is a priority ? Makes me sad.

[Hekate]

26. Small edit?

You mean "It will not help women," et.al. ? I think that is where you were going with saying economic nustice is not the be-all and end-all that solves everything in its wake.

I agree, btw.

[sheshe2]

37. Thanks, hekate.

[fleabiscuit]

55. +1

[sheshe2]

183. You.

[progressoid]

119. Why can't we fight for more than one thing at a time?

Seems to me fighting for one does not mean giving up on the others.

In fact, the current trend in political circles is impact of intersectionality.

the interconnected nature of social categorizations such as race, class, and gender as they apply to a given individual or group, regarded as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage.

[sheshe2]

125. Hmmmm

progressoid
119. Why can't we fight for more than one thing at a time?

Seems to me fighting for one does not mean giving up on the others.

Bernie's #1 priority is the economy...ie economic justice. All he ever really talks about.

[progressoid]

126. Really? LMGTFY...

I agree it is probably his #1 priority. But it's not all he ever really talks about.


The first four that came up in my search:

Sanders To Host Seniors Town Meeting in Newport

Senator talks Veterans, Isreal.

Sanders: U.S. can't pull out of Syria 'tomorrow'

Bernie Sanders Mourns 'Tragic' Killing of Palestinian Demonstrators by Israeli Forces

[sheshe2]

127. He has been giving the same economic stump speech for years.

Never varies.

[progressoid]

146. Quote: "All he ever really talks about"

It is demonstrably not all he ever talks about.

However, it is one of the things that DU really likes to bleat about.

[sheshe2]

148. Aaah

What DU "bleats" about. Bernie.

[progressoid]

151. Thanks for agreeing with me.

[sheshe2]

174. I didn't agree with you...

nor did I miss...

progressoid (42,289 posts)
146. Quote: "All he ever really talks about"

It is demonstrably not all he ever talks about.

However, it is one of the things that DU really likes to bleat about.


You just called DUers that do not agree with Sanders 'sheep.' Nice personal attack there, progressoid. Not very progressive of you.

[progressoid]

177. Bleat synonyms: complain, kvetch, sound off, gripe, whine, fuss, blather, cry, bluster

Any of those non-sheep references will do.

[sheshe2]

50. I have every right to speak.

As does Hillary.

Please do not tell me to sit down or shut up. No comment from you at all on the substance and facts of the OP. You just told me to stop and that is not right.

Fact. Black people, men and women were beaten and still they rise. I am so sad that you have an issue with the facts being spoken. We the minorities should be sticking together and not fighting each other. Together we rise, if not we all will fall. The choice is clear.

[progressoid]

120. Who is stopping Hillary from speaking?

[sheshe2]

123. Here's one example...plenty more.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-sexism-people-telling-her-go-away-rutgers-speech-2018-3

[progressoid]

150. Ooookay.

"They never said that to any man who was not elected."

Clinton then talked about how Al Gore didn't stop talking about climate change after he lost the presidential race in 2000, and how John Kerry went on to become a US senator and secretary of state after his loss in 2004."

Uh, yeah. But didn't like 40% of Democrats tell Al not to run again after 2000? And Kerry was regularly mocked for his shortcomings after the loss. And isn't his appointment as Sec of State after his political loss similar to Hillary's appointment to Sec of State after losing the nomination in 07?

She also pointed to John McCain and Mitt Romney as examples of presidential candidates who remained a part of the national political conversation even after their losses.

Yes, they did remain part of the national political conversation. They were also pilloried by us and the GOP.

But Republicans aren't the only ones who want to see less of Clinton in public. Some Democrats have criticized her as well.

So most of the the criticism came from Republicans. Of course. They hate her.

And "Some Democrats have criticized her as well." Sure. Some Democrats have also criticized Obama. Some Democrats have also criticized Claire McCaskill. Some Democrats have also criticized Heidi Heitkamp. Etc.

[sheshe2]

175. All that has been addressed ie, Kerry and Gore.

And they were not told to just go away. After all Kerry became a very successful SOS and Gore went on write and lecture about climate change.

Not the same as being told to sit down and shut up.

[progressoid]

180. Hillary also became a very successful SOS after her primary loss.

And she went on to write a successful book and lecture in the last year. The bile they throw at her now is a continuation of the last 20+ years of Bill and Hillary hate.

Kerry is mostly out of the picture now, but Gore still gets berated for his climate work. We (most of us) may like him, but there is a huge chunk of America that really hates him. Get off of DU and read some other boards that discuss climate change. He's a regular punching bag. There aren't many republicans going out of their way to embrace Al.

[kcr]

63. No.

Just no.

[sheshe2]

147. Thank you, kcr.

[heaven05]

76. sheshe

Asked you a question as I am now. What should she stop? She she's OP hit the nail on the head perfectly. NO AMOUNT OF DISTRACTION will take away from that truth. If anyone should stop...well I'm sure you know who.

[Egnever]

77. Good luck

This kind of post is the stock and trade of this op.

[Agschmid]

78. Yup.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

82. BINGO

[NYC Liberal]

84. Calling out bullshit should be the stock and trade of every poster.

[sheshe2]

129. Race baiting?

Ooookay. Please explain the 'race baiting' and which race (group of people) I am baiting.

TIA

[R B Garr]

88. I bet I can translate what you are really saying.

I bet you are really worried about Vermont.

[sheshe2]

130. ;)

[Codeine]

89. Actually, dont stop.

Sheshe is a valuable voice and one who should be heard.

[Agschmid]

93. Well contrary to the OPs point of view...

I’d be willing to bet a whole lot of people are going to that event to see Bernie AND to honor MLK.

But hey why not throw some chum in the water?

[xmas74]

114. Exactly.

I'm glad this was brought to light. The event has been co-opted to the point that the casual observer might not realize what is being commemorated.

Sheshe is an important voice on DU and I'm tired of many of those voices being drowned out.

[Kali]

12. didn't HamdenRice used to post here?

I remember that name.

[sheshe2]

14. Not found on DU with a search.

[Kali]

16. I found.

Kind of remembering the controversy, too. I was (and still am) mostly a Lounger but it seems he might have been banned over homophobia. During the famous "purge" episode (wasn't only gay posters and allies, there were others too). I don't remember it all but doing a search turned up a couple of things. He was also active in the lounge, probably why I remembered the name.

Sorry to go off-topic, just knew I recognized that name.

[sheshe2]

18. Care to link what you found?

I did a basic search and did not find them.

Also please any links that they are one and the same.

[Kali]

25. sure

some aren't complete threads, I assume because of the switches to DU3 and the hack...I have no idea if they are the same, I asked you about that. Odd username to be different people, though.

here is my search results - https://www.google.com/search?q=HamdenRice&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

typical lounge type of thread - https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8056394

not sure what this means, sid is pretty good at troll hunting (incomplete thread?) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1450530

glbt activist ex-poster commenting (incomplete thread?) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x8721

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4487741

oh wow, prosense posting a link (memory lane, some of these links!) (and sid again with similar comment to mine LOL) - https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002132887

that was going back a page or two...

[sheshe2]

33. Bwahahahaha

Thanks for the link from ProSense. I miss her so.

......................


oh wow, prosense posting a link (memory lane, some of these links!) (and sid again with similar comment to mine LOL) - https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002132887

The comments at the link are a hoot.

Here....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/07/1052412/-Sah-it-Loud!-Im-Blah-and-Im-Prouh

You missed that he is dissing Santorum on the Kos. Lol. Thanks for the link.


RhodaA
January 07 · 09:01:21 AM
Santorum

Sahnatoriuh, uh, sanitorium



''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Also thanks for the Sid info. I talk to them all the time. Will ask their opinion of trolls.

[Kali]

39. here is something he may have posted just before getting banned

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x13057

strange as hell, but the comments seem to indicate a tombstone...

got it from the thread Hassin Bin Sober posted below here is the view all link =https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7163238

[sheshe2]

45. Didn't bother reading your link.

You say none of this happened to African Americans?

This is Martin Luther King

Most of you have no idea what Martin Luther King actually did
By HamdenRice

What most people who reference Dr. King seem not to know is how Dr. King actually changed the subjective experience of life in the United States for African Americans. And yeah, I said for African Americans, not for Americans, because his main impact was his effect on the lives of African Americans, not on Americans in general. His main impact was not to make white people nicer or fairer. That's why some of us who are African Americans get a bit possessive about his legacy. Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy, despite what our civil religion tells us, is not color blind.

snip

At this point, I would like to remind everyone exactly what Martin Luther King did, and it wasn't that he "marched" or gave a great speech.

My father told me with a sort of cold fury, "Dr. King ended the terror of living in the south."

Please let this sink in...

snip

They made black people experience the worst of the worst, collectively, that white people could dish out, and discover that it wasn't that bad. They taught black people how to take a beating—from the southern cops, from police dogs, from fire department hoses. They actually coached young people how to crouch, cover their heads with their arms and take the beating. They taught people how to go to jail, which terrified most decent people.

snip

Once the beating was over, we were free.


It wasn't the Civil Rights Act, or the Voting Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act that freed us. It was taking the beating and thereafter not being afraid. So, sorry Mrs. Clinton, as much as I admire you, you were wrong on this one. Our people freed ourselves and those Acts, as important as they were, were only white people officially recognizing what we had done.


Read More: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/08/29/1011562/-Most-of-you-have-no-idea-what-Martin-Luther-King-actually-did

BTW. The African American members here were systematically run off this board. Their group is now silent.

Strange, you never commented on the validity of the statement and only attacked the source.

Hmm.

[Kali]

56. WTF?

hmmm??? you seem to be implying something...I have been looking for stuff YOU asked for. Your subject line caught my attention on the latest page hours ago
I recognized the author's name and said something. I apologized for going off topic (and therefore not commenting on the validity of the statement). If noticing and remembering an author had some problems here is attacking, well I guess that is what I did.

Done here.

[sheshe2]

57. Yet I was not the one to question Hamden.

Correct, Kali? That was you.

[progressoid]

121. +1

appreciate the effort!

[Me.]

102. Children Are Still Being Coached

[sheshe2]

112. Correct, me.

[Me.]

113. This Is Such A Thought Provoking Post sheshe

I thank you

[sheshe2]

134. I appreciate your support, me.

[heaven05]

79. ???

Why all the distraction and diversion when it comes down to the fact......this remembrance of the murder/assassination of Dr. King came right after he started counseling that we needed to get out of Vietnam. This remembrance is about MLK and nothing and no one else. And no one should doubt he was killed because he started to appeal to many whites. Dr. King then became a clear and present danger to the PTB. Same ones that saddled us with the idiotboypotusPOS posing as potus now.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

20. You are correct. And yes, that was the reason.

[sheshe2]

22. You state facts.

Two of you, yet not one link to a banned poster.

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

29. I wasn't even looking for a controversial thread. Just the profile with a tombstone

But one of his beauties came up on first search.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7163238&mesg_id=7166304

[sheshe2]

38. Okee Dokey.

That sure told me...a comment from someone I like yet no way for me to access the thread or who they were talking to.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Here's the whole thread

I didn't realize you couldn't read the entire thread from that reply. I thought that reply just about summed it up.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7163238

[sheshe2]

53. I read half way through.

What exactly is this suppose to prove to me?

Hamden provides a lot of facts an statistics about HIV. What is your issue again?

PS...totally OT and you never addressed the issues in the OP. This isn't about Hamden or aides...this is about civil rights and how Martin and POC stood up and declared that "WE ARE MEN". Care to actually comment on the OP itself?

TIA

[melman]

90. You don't see any problem there?

Why am I not surprised.

[melman]

92. oh btw

I notice you dropped the pretense of not knowing who he is.

[sheshe2]

99. Yes, melman.

I was given several links to some very old threads of theirs and read part way through...if reading a link provided means I know them then you sure are stretching. What I know of the man is what I posted in my OP. Funny that you all suddenly take notice of the man now, in this OP as I have been posting it for several years. Where was your outrage then? Hmmm.

Here:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/118763696

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=18885

Oh, wait...I see the problem.

[LanternWaste]

161. Bit of an irony there when you allege someone else drops their pretense.

Bit of an irony there when you allege someone else drops their pretense.

Good luck!

[Agschmid]

94. Well that was horrifying to read.

Glad they got served the pizza.

[Kali]

27. man I wish the archives weren't all messed up.

probably more tech savy people can find things, but yeah - I remember a few long threads that sounded pretty disingenuous - hell maybe I replied in some ignorant way too, people do evolve. but it seemed like at the time he was acting like a major jerk.

I don't hang at KOS so didn't know about him there.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. see #29.

[Kali]

40. here is the link for the whole thread

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7163238

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. Thanks. I thought the whole thread would be viewable from that poignant reply.

[sheshe2]

41. So.

What you are telling me...

This is all a lie and never happened to an African American?

This is Martin Luther King

Most of you have no idea what Martin Luther King actually did
By HamdenRice

What most people who reference Dr. King seem not to know is how Dr. King actually changed the subjective experience of life in the United States for African Americans. And yeah, I said for African Americans, not for Americans, because his main impact was his effect on the lives of African Americans, not on Americans in general. His main impact was not to make white people nicer or fairer. That's why some of us who are African Americans get a bit possessive about his legacy. Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy, despite what our civil religion tells us, is not color blind.

snip

At this point, I would like to remind everyone exactly what Martin Luther King did, and it wasn't that he "marched" or gave a great speech.

My father told me with a sort of cold fury, "Dr. King ended the terror of living in the south."

Please let this sink in...

snip

They made black people experience the worst of the worst, collectively, that white people could dish out, and discover that it wasn't that bad. They taught black people how to take a beating—from the southern cops, from police dogs, from fire department hoses. They actually coached young people how to crouch, cover their heads with their arms and take the beating. They taught people how to go to jail, which terrified most decent people.

snip

Once the beating was over, we were free.


It wasn't the Civil Rights Act, or the Voting Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act that freed us. It was taking the beating and thereafter not being afraid. So, sorry Mrs. Clinton, as much as I admire you, you were wrong on this one. Our people freed ourselves and those Acts, as important as they were, were only white people officially recognizing what we had done.


Read More: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/08/29/1011562/-Most-of-you-have-no-idea-what-Martin-Luther-King-actually-did

[Hassin Bin Sober]

46. Some smart DUer once pointed out how you can pretty much ignore what comes after "so"

I'm not "telling you" anything.

[sheshe2]

48. Nah.

You just spoke volumes and told me all I need to know.

Thanks for clearing up what I already knew.

Night.

[heaven05]

80. I'm curious

what is your point? I read that all concerning Dr. King's contribution to this country is the focus, not some minor politician from a fringe section of the Democratic Party showing up to try to steal the limelight for petty political exposure along with his Berniebot supporter

[kcr]

64. I doubt supporting a CDC policy is the reason he was banned n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

107. Read the replies from GLBT DUers and allies.

It was a pattern.

[sheshe2]

135. Patterns are interesting.

I see them all the time.

Patterns.

[hunter]

43. He was here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4389779

Guess we were too pushy for him, fighting Prop 8 and all.

[George II]

17. This entire series is on youtube, but this is the one about what we're commemorating next Wednesday:

And there's also this wonderful rendition:

[sheshe2]

23. Sweet Honey In the Rock

[George II]

21. And we have this one, too:

[sheshe2]

24. Dayum.

That was awesome.

That was history.

Thank you George.

[George II]

32. Just in keeping with the theme of the OP, "Hold On" - "Keep your eyes on the prize, hold on!"

[sheshe2]

34. Hold On.

Yup. Hold On.

That we are.

Thanks George.

[Anon-C]

28. You are more awake than you know, Sheshe!

Kick!

[sheshe2]

47. Thanks Anon.

I think I am taking my own beating here, yet I will survive.

[aeromanKC]

49. Bernie needs to be replaced in the Senate

by a REAL Democrat!!

[JCanete]

144. Yep, cuz swhat he's talking about that people are hearing is simply inconvenient to be heard. We

need somebody like Manchin in that seat, or oooh....Lieberman when HE was a REAL DEMOCRAT! One day that man was a REAL Democrat, the next he was a fucking traitor, but up to that point...totally real. That's what we need.

[sheshe2]

178. Well...

I will agree with this part. You make this all about Bernie...I will make it about Martin. It is his day.

JCanete (3,130 posts)
144. Yep, cuz swhat he's talking about that people are hearing is simply inconvenient to be heard.

What Martin was talking about 'is simply inconvenient to be heard.' Makes people very uncomfortable when race is mentioned as many on this thread prove since they talked about everything other than the importance of Martin Luther Kings life's work.

[left-of-center2012]

51. Yet one more attack on Bernie. Ho hum.

[NurseJackie]

73. LOL!

What attack? Where?

[sheshe2]

104. I know, NurseJackie.

Seriously?

Hey you~

[tavernier]

118. Amen to that.

Amazing that that is all he got out of your OP.
I found it extremely informative and interesting.

[sheshe2]

136. Thank you tavernier.

[NurseJackie]

133. Apparently so...

... that's what makes it so funny. (And sad. But mostly funny.)

, She!

[sheshe2]

137. Yep...

Jackie~

[mcar]

187. That's one of my favorite GIFs

[sheshe2]

188. I watch it several times before I post it.

Makes me laugh, mcar. That is something that we all need.

[TCJ70]

52. Man...somebody call the whambulance. They didn't write this the way you want!

How dare they put up a short, barely 5 paragraph (if one sentence counts as a paragraph), explanation of a change of venue. You're blaming someone who didn't even write this for it:

This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie.

You aren't wrong that it's about Martin, but why are you attributing this to Bernie as if he had something to do with writing it? Does seeing his name send you into a blind rage or something? Good grief.

[markpkessinger]

54. Bernie didn't say it was all about him, nor has he tried to make it so . . .

. . . The Clarion Star Ledger did that. Last I checked, Bernie was not on its editorial staff.

[sheshe2]

58. Please show me where I said Bernie made that statement.

I posted the article.

TIA.

[markpkessinger]

61. The paragtaph at the very end, which appeared to be after the article and the hyperlink . . .

This sentence: "This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie. "

[sheshe2]

138. Again.

Show me where I said that Bernie made that statement. Your quote does not mean what you want it to mean.

[TCJ70]

156. Who are you talking to in that last paragraph?

This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie. Martin is the headliner here , not you.

You used the pronoun "you" followed by "Bernie"...suggesting that he is the target audience. Has Bernie suggested it's all about him? Who organized this event? From everything I can see it's the mayor who's organized it and invited him to be there. You need to take off your Bernie Hate Glasses.

[markpkessinger]

159. As TC170 points out . . .

. . . your last paragraph speaks for itself. And there is no other way any adult could reasonably interpret it otherwise. Look, if you want to attack Bernie,, by all means, go right ahead. No one is stopping you/ But at least be honest with yourself about what you are doing, and don't insult our intelligence by trying to pretend that isn't what you were doing with this post.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. And yet, in reply #2, you pretend that this thread wasn't about the article.

Your beef is actually with the paragraph break that the Clarion Ledger writer used. To you, if something doesn't appear in the first paragraph, you think it's been ignored. Of course, in the other DU thread that uses this article that I can find, they quoted the second paragraph as well, so the MLK connection was clear.

It's only if someone quotes the title and just the first paragraph that people might be uninformed - like you did. So I think you should blame yourself for only quoting one paragraph.

[betsuni]

59. The title should be "Demand forces city to change venue for MLK anniversary town hall"

It's confusing the way it is now, makes it seem like a rally or something for Sanders and Lumumba.

[sheshe2]

60. Yes.

Exactly, betsuni.

betsuni
59. The title should be "Demand forces city to change venue for MLK anniversary town hall"

It's confusing the way it is now, makes it seem like a rally or something for Sanders and Lumumba.

Thanks. You actually read and understood the article.

Thank you.

[Hortensis]

62. As I said elsewhere, Jackson, MS's 80% BLACK population

does not need Sanders, or as the size of the venue suggests want him.

Vermont's 1.3% BLACKS might have found the attention he's trying to generate useful for their causes. But that's not where he will be.

POC are very aware that back in the 1960s, while they struggled in NYC and elsewhere, Brooklynite Sanders was part of NY's white radical flight to Vermont and other white NE states. If he truly wants to help equality, he should start where he has made his home and with himself. Even if that's not where the cameras are.

Vermont’s Black Leaders: We Were ‘Invisible’ to Bernie Sanders

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vermonts-black-leaders-we-were-invisible-to-bernie-sanders

[sheshe2]

105. thank you.

[ehrnst]

65. K&R

[R B Garr]

66. Thanks for clearing up the false advertising, sheshe.

Well done!

An MLK celebration turned into a Bernie event is not cool.

[sheshe2]

106. Hey RB.

I have been gone all day and just catching up. Still-one posted a great article below and it explains a lot. I only read it briefly and want to follow the link he provided.

Here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210437316#post72

It is telling.

Thanks RB.

[R B Garr]

158. Hi sheshe! Thanks for that link. I did glance

at that, but will look in detail later as I’m out mostly the last few days, too.

MLK is a stand alone ICON. No need to co-opt his legacy for some superficial campaign slogans from a couple years ago. Looking forward to reading those links!

[Gothmog]

68. Thanks Sheshe2

[heaven05]

69. this assassination remembranceis all about memorializing the life of Dr. King

Last edited Sun Apr 1, 2018, 04:16 PM - Edit history (1)

cut short by a racist white society and leadership in chaos, NOT BS or that mayor lumumba. With news article saying it's BS driving high demand to see him and nothing about how Dr. King changed the dynamics of white racism into NO FEAR of white racist rage by AA is THE most important impact of Dr. Kings life on AA. Along with the nonviolence of his TRUE CHRISTIAN LEANINGS and the truth being people want to memorialize the Freedom that Dr. King helped bring about for all minorities and that space problems are NOT the result of people wanting to see or hear BS.

It's very sad viewing today 2018, in this present racist culture, all who are affected by the white racist GOP rage at the advances of all not white, on their privilege and entitlement. Racists rioting, beating and killing counter protestors against their demands in Charleston, continued murder of unarmed AA MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN by private citizens and those agents of 'the state' who can and do hide under their authority and badge is an affront to the contribution of Dr. King to racial conciliation he championed for ALL, black or white.

On this very holy day of the Christian calender, I would agree that Dr. King did change the dynamic of AA fear at fire hoses, vicious police dogs and out of control 'agents of the state', federal and local, to a dynamic of feeling positive about our skin color and being that set us on a path that ended with President Barack Obama and a wonderful and decent First Family.

Finally I never forget that Dr. King also freed white citizens from their fear of accepting the AA as a full contibuting partner in a continuing quest for equality and all inclusiveness being demanded by the AA and other minorities then and now. He did show the way toward a freer society. Now temporarily halted by the hardcore racists showing their fear again, at the AA demand, among other minorities, that the poisonous racist scum threatening our 'melting pot', crawl back under their rock and let the experiment in democracy America represents continue to evolve.
.

[sheshe2]

108. Thank you for your thoughtful response, heaven.

You are spot on with all that you said. Also your last paragraph gives me hope of a better future for us all.

[heaven05]

70. thank you

So very much for this OP of beautiful truth in content.

[sheshe2]

109. You are so very welcome.

[lapucelle]

71. No one should turn this anniversary into a campaign style event.

Allies belong in the audience, not at the podium.

[NurseJackie]

74. You're correct. No one should...

... but to avoid disappointment, I've set my expectations very low. With rock-bottom expectations, the only way to go is up.

[still_one]

72. The situtaion is complicated to say the least, and perhaps this insight from Bruce Dixon, a

founder of "The Black Agenda" report, and also a state committee member of the GA Green Party, which one would assume would have a sympathetic eye toward the Sanders agenda, may not be as cohesive as some would assume:

"How Can Berniecrats Claim the Jackson Mississippi Movement? Do They Want To Be Claimed? Should They?"

The article discusses the journey of the Jackson mayor-elect Chokwe Antar Lumumba, and discusses how the "our revolution" movement pushed its way to be associated with Lumumba:

"That’s the weight of historic movement clout and credibility Jackson mayor-elect Chokwe Antar Lumumba brought with him to the misleadingly named “Peoples Summit” in Chicago this June. The Peoples Summit is actually the annual invitation-only gathering of Berniecrats, where the faithful gather to be inspired, to hear success stories of local movements inspired by Bernie’s run for president, and to take part in workshops on how to organize and manage local campaigns.

Berniecrat honchos like former Ohio state senator Nina Turner, and allied media spokespeople in The Nation, Mother Jones and elsewhere were only too glad to mine the movement credibility of Jackson Mississippi without mentioning the RNA, the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, or Cooperation Jackson. THEY PRETENDED, AND ALLOWED THE IGNORANT AMONG THEIR FOLLOWERS TO BELIEVE THE MOVEMENT IN JACKSON MISSISSIPPI WAS SOMEHOW PART OF A WAVE OF ORGANIZING EFOORTS INSPIRED BY BERNIE SANDERS< RATHER THAN THE PRESENT PHASE OF ORGANIZING EFFORTS STRETCHING BACK HALF A CENTURY.

The Berniecrats appear to have pocketed the movement cred of Jackson without giving Jackson or its principals a thing. They got to speak at the yearly event, but Jackson doesn’t have a shot callers or even a spectator's seat on the board of Our Revolution , the Berniecrat political operation, or any other line of visible input on its policies or positions. And those positions are highly questionable."

.......................................................

"Paul Jay of The Real News Network was the first to observe that the Berniecrat “Peoples Summit” featured speeches by Van Jones and other luminaries but offered no mention from the podium, no workshops and no presentations on foreign policy, on the military budget or the profound impact of global empire on everyday life in the US, which spends more on arms than the next eight or nine countries combined. Our Revolution president Nina Turner can talk endlessly about the human needs not being met in this country. But when Paul Jay interviewed her on her appointment to the presidency of Our Revolution he made the mistake of asking her a generic foreign policy question.

It was a real softball question, inviting Turner to link the insane amounts spent by the US government on arms and the military --$13 billion aircraft carriers and trillion dollar F-35 aircraft -- to the absence of funding for schools, infrastructure, social security, student loans and more. Turner utterly fumbled the question, as though she’d never thought out loud about it, and never wrote or spoke a stump speech line on the subject. We cannot know her thoughts, but she really has NOT spoken on the subject, perhaps because her mentor Bernie Sanders is pretty much mum on it as well, and Turner is committed to aping Bernie's act as the formula for political success."

...............................................................

"Will the forces that elected Chokwe Antar Lumumba, including MXGM and participants in the Jackson movement be required to mute themselves on regime change in Venezuela, Iran, Syria and elsewhere? Will they have to toe the Berniecrat line and silence themselves on drone wars in Africa or the fact that the US arms and trains every military except two or three on the African continent? Is silence on these issues part of the political DNA of the junior Lumumba’s circle, as it is of Nina Turner and the Berniecrats? What IS the real price of Chokwe Antar Lumumba’s affiliation with the Berniecrats, and what if anything can the Jackson movement expect to receive in return?

Should the Jackson movement even want to be claimed by these people?"

https://blackagendareport.com/berniecrats-and-the-jackson-movement

So when Justin Vicory, the author of the piece referenced in the OP, characterizes this gathering as all about "Bernie", and MLK simply as incidental, it is not unreasonable to question if things are really as they appear as conveyed by Vicory's article?

[heaven05]

75. excellent response

This 50 year remembrance of Dr. King is about Dr. King and NOT about someone who ONCE marched in favor of equality with Dr. King over a bridge or that mayor who seems a berniebot.

[still_one]

98. There are going to be tens of thousands of people remembering Dr. King on the 50th anniversary of

his death, April 4 throughout the country. This Justin Vicory article's characterization is outrageous, and an insult to the memory of Dr. King

[Cha]

91. Good find, still_one..

Thank you. And, there it is.. in black and white on screen, exactly what this looked like.

[still_one]

101. Absolutely. Taking the memory of Dr. King as an opportunity to further one's political ambitons is

very sad indeed

[GaryCnf]

95. Very good find

Unfortunately, there are far too many agenda-driven posters who, in their eagerness to prove that Sanders is white (okay, I mean not as in tune to black concerns as the breathless posts praising him every time he does reach out to black folks would have us believe) miss the point that the very black voices they quote in support of their Sanders bashing consider the establishment alternatives a hundred times worse.

Yea, Sanders is white. Yea, he doesn't get the difference between black socialists/Marxists and white socialists/Marxists. But watching folks act like Hamden Rice or Bruce Dixon are anything less than disgusted by centrist incrementalism is almost ludicrous.

That being said, big props to sheshe2 and still one for posting links to these black voices.

[Me.]

96. Wonderful Still One

I wonder what MLK Jr. would have to say about today's false prophets?

[sheshe2]

140. Woah.

Hole in one, me.

[sheshe2]

110. Damn straight, still_one.

The last paragraph. Interesting questions that I would like to see some answers to. Though I fear I know them.

[still_one]

116. Actually your OP pretty much told it like is sheshe. Thanks

[sheshe2]

128. Thanks, still_one.

We saw some people showing their true colors in this thread. None were surprising.

[hunter]

179. Yeah, I know, gay rights activism has been successful because most gay people are white.

And some are even Republican.

And yes, there's some horrific truth to that, but still no reason to tell LGBT people to suck it up because they are making too much noise and distracting from the traditional 14th amendment U.S.A. civil rights activism. Most especially for someone like HamdenRice who has gay and transgender friends who sing and dance in church, and figures gay rights will come around about the time we find a cure for cancer.



You can judge my own opinions about Bernie Sanders and his more outspoken supporters by my writings here on DU, which mostly fall into the category "if you don't have anything nice to say..." and a personal reluctance to post flamebait. I might agree with you that a shocking number of Bernie Sanders supporters are more comfortable with him than other candidates because he's not black and not a woman.

If you didn't know HamdenRice was a notorious poster who was banned from DU, you do now.

I'm not dismissing the content of your original post.

My own "true colors" and agendas are not hidden. I've been posting under the rainbow flag here on DU for a long time.

[sheshe2]

182. I never knew they were a poster here.

However...it is not the first time that I have posted these comments from Rice, I have done it multiple times. Mostly I did it for MLK Day in the AA group. Never once have I read one negative comment about his words. NEVER and all of a sudden, out of the blue because of a 'name association' he is suddenly vilified with members going back years to find his old posts.

I find that...telling.

[hunter]

191. I didn't do the search because I'm a Bernie Sanders enthusiast or fecklessly white and colorblind.

I remembered the HamdenRice name because I used to work in a blood bank and I was active and outspoken in my opposition of Proposition 8. I'm also an occasional participant in the Religion forum here on DU, as was HamdenRice. That's why I did the name search.

Disclaimer: I don't often visit DailyKos for various reasons, and I'm not the "Hunter" there, or by any other name.

It just gets weirder and weirder and distracting from the good intentions of your original post...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=13057&mesg_id=13057

https://www.dailykos.com/comments/1234803/51197253#comment_51197253

[sheshe2]

193. None of what any of you post negates what he said about King

None of it. In fact he lived this. Sold. Used and abused.

HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore
Mon Nov-23-09 05:27 PM
Original message
I was born in a Philippine brothel. I'm told my father was black. I was sent to a Catholic nunnery..



Edited on Mon Nov-23-09 05:56 PM by HamdenRice
in Cebu City, even though I was a boy. After 10 years, they tired of me and sold me to a passing Burmese pirate ship with an all female crew, where I was forced to learn how to roll cigarettes with my feet. They wanted me to keep my hands free at all times, "for other services."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=13057&mesg_id=13057

Fact.

This is Martin Luther King

Most of you have no idea what Martin Luther King actually did
By HamdenRice

What most people who reference Dr. King seem not to know is how Dr. King actually changed the subjective experience of life in the United States for African Americans. And yeah, I said for African Americans, not for Americans, because his main impact was his effect on the lives of African Americans, not on Americans in general. His main impact was not to make white people nicer or fairer. That's why some of us who are African Americans get a bit possessive about his legacy. Dr. Martin Luther King's legacy, despite what our civil religion tells us, is not color blind.

snip

At this point, I would like to remind everyone exactly what Martin Luther King did, and it wasn't that he "marched" or gave a great speech.

My father told me with a sort of cold fury, "Dr. King ended the terror of living in the south."

Please let this sink in...

snip

They made black people experience the worst of the worst, collectively, that white people could dish out, and discover that it wasn't that bad. They taught black people how to take a beating—from the southern cops, from police dogs, from fire department hoses. They actually coached young people how to crouch, cover their heads with their arms and take the beating. They taught people how to go to jail, which terrified most decent people.

snip

Once the beating was over, we were free.


It wasn't the Civil Rights Act, or the Voting Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act that freed us. It was taking the beating and thereafter not being afraid. So, sorry Mrs. Clinton, as much as I admire you, you were wrong on this one. Our people freed ourselves and those Acts, as important as they were, were only white people officially recognizing what we had done.


Read More: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/08/29/1011562/-Most-of-you-have-no-idea-what-Martin-Luther-King-actually-did

Do what you need to do. Trash the man at will. It will never negate what he said about King and AA. I am appalled and I find it suspect that a quote I have posted many times without any outside comments is now attacked. The man is attacked. AA is attacked. These are our times and am highly suspicious of the motivation.

[hunter]

200. Arrghhh,,,, this is where politics goes wrong and I apologize.

[sheshe2]

201. Thank you, hunter.

[lunamagica]

83. Sheshe, you should know by now that it's Bernies world. Everything is about him

Seriously, this guy is getting desperate.And he thinks this will get him the black support he didn't get last time? How can anyone be so clueless?

[sheshe2]

111. I doubt this will go well.

[shenmue]

154. True

[cwydro]

87. Go away Bernie.

Give it up.

[JCanete]

143. yes and take those issues people are actually listening to with you...we don't want those things...

we like our "meritocracy" in quotes. Give it up. Things were great before you showed up with your unicorns. You can't raise the military budget by 66 billion and do any of those things you propose you crazy old cooter. You can't deregulate the banks and do any of those things you propose. You can't get massive infusions of campaign financing from big institutions and do anything or even talk about anything you propose. Please let those who actually live on $planet earth do the talking.

[sheshe2]

149. Hmmm

JCanete
143. yes and take those issues people are actually listening to with you...we don't want those things...

we like our "meritocracy" in quotes. Give it up. Things were great before you showed up with your unicorns. You can't raise the military budget by 66 billion and do any of those things you propose you crazy old cooter.

Bernie Sanders on Lockheed Martin F-35 Jets in Vermont

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the most expensive weapons program in history at $400 billion, which is being manufactured in the state of Vermont by the biggest military defense contractor in the country, Lockheed Martin. During the last presidenti cycle in 2012, Lockheed Martin donated almost $4 million to political campaigns, spent over $15 million lobbying Congress, and won over $44 billion in government contracts, according to Opensecrets.org and USAspending.gov.

snip

Josh: "...You work on limiting the influence of money in politics, yet at the same time you continue to support wasteful contracts from companies such as Lockheed Martin with the F-35 for instance. So what steps are you willing to take to limit the influence of companies in politics, not only on campaigns, but in policy making as well?”

Senator Sanders: "What part of the F-35? What are my options as a Senator? …if I said no to the F-35 coming to Burlington, for Vermont National Guard where would it go?... South Carolina?

More http://gui.afsc.org/birddog/bernie-sanders-lockheed-martin-f-35-jets-vermont

Hmmm hmm hm. Hm. Hm.

[betsuni]

152. Hmmmm.

I'd also like to point out, just for the heck of it, that Sanders said that if he were president he'd use Special Forces and drone warfare and the like as a last resort, as any president would (except for Republican presidents whose last resort is diplomacy, but that's a different story).

[JCanete]

153. Right, and what point are you making? That stuck with an F-35 Sanders voted for the spending

because some jobs would go to Vermont? You cannot find examples where I suggest that votes should never be practical, but the rhetoric should not shy away from the truth. Has Sanders interest in Lockheed contracts in Vermont made him speak more softly when it comes to military spending?

None of this can be changed on a fundamental meaningful level unless you actually convince the public that things need to change. Only then will our politicians step into the role or morph into the role that the public demands they fill. If you use every reason under the sun why one messenger or another should not be bringing up what nobody else is giving much attention because they aren't perfect...the way you may undercut Gore's message about global warming because he has a big house and because he flies in a jet...or shit...lets look at his legislative past...does he have anything in it that might undermine his advocacy for the environment? One bill...that's enough for me, and we can tarnish him for any effort he puts forward on this issue. Oh wait....remember when he supported ethanol because he was courting the farm lobby? He has literally come out and said that he knew corn had environmental issues but was pressured into to doing it for their endorsement. I say facetiously, there is nothing he can say on this subject because his reputation is tarnished. he should just go away and stop fighting the good fight.

OR, I can take him as a fallible man who has at times let politics affect his decisions, and I can continue to appreciate him for bringing these significant issues of global warning to the forefront of American consciousness...

That's what I choose to do with Gore. You do what you like with Sanders.

[sheshe2]

192. Oh.

And wait.

Pentagon weapons tester: F-35 fighter jet has 'significant' problems.

9CNN)The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program is drawing sharp criticism from the Pentagon's top weapons tester, who warns the aircraft is "on a path of failing to deliver" its full combat capability.

snip

The sobering review of the US military's $400 billion program comes despite its achieving several major development milestones this month. The single-engine, fifth-generation F-35 fighter jet is touted as the future of military aviation: A lethal and versatile aircraft to replace the aging fleet currently used by all three military branches.

More: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=10440741

The man that made a tiny protest not to support a war in Iraq while allowing his state to house and sponser weapons of mass destruction seem rather hypocritical to me. His reason...jobs????

[mcar]

189. Hmmm

[sheshe2]

202. Ummm hm!

[hatrack]

122. Yes, you have to read through the one-sentence first paragraph . . .

Then, in the one-sentence second paragraph, it states:

Sanders and the mayor will be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the assassination of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr at an event titled "Examining Economic Justice 50 Years Later."

[sheshe2]

124. The headline also screams Bernie.

[KPN]

139. Sounds like the Clarion Ledger wants to

create the controversy you are voicing with this OP. It's obviously either intentional or extremely tone deaf on their part. Too bad we can't all recognize it for what it is here.

[sheshe2]

142. The whole Town Hall.

This whole thing is tone deaf and I question why it is being done.

I suggest you read still_one's post here. It is enlightening.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210437316#post72

[lapucelle]

157. I'm sure BS will also make time to be with his own constituents that day.

https://www.poorpeoplescampaignvt.org/calender/

http://justiceforallvt.org/

http://justiceforallvt.org/blog/

http://justiceforallvt.org/blog/establish-a-the-racial-justice-oversight-board-in-vermont-adopt-h492/

[sheshe2]

199. I am sure he will address this soon.

Soon, very soon in the near future. Sooner than not.

African American men continue to die at the hands of law enforcement. Frustration fuels senseless murders of law enforcement and the nation becomes further divided. Nationally, over one-third of the seven million people incarchttp://justiceforallvt.org/blog/erated or otherwise under the supervision of corrections are African American. Vermont, statistically leads the nation with one in 14 African American males incarcerated in State prisons. Vermont is 5th in the nation for state prison black / white differential at 10.5.

What are our next steps in addressing the racial divide in Vermont and the Disparities in the Criminal Justice System and beyond? Join a campaign and do your part.



OMG! The very small state of Vermont has some huge issues.

Vermont, statistically leads the nation with one in 14 African American males incarcerated in State prisons. Vermont is 5th in the nation for state prison black / white differential at 10.5.

Thanks Lapucelle. The statistics are depressing from a very small state. where are the elected leaders from that state? MIA.

[berni_mccoy]

168. "This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie."

If it wasn't for this, your post would not expose your irrational hate for Bernie. But you couldn't help yourself. We know. You hate the man. So please, let it go. Not for our sake, but yours.

[sheshe2]

181. Hmmm

Last edited Mon Apr 2, 2018, 07:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Let's see here...

berni_mccoy
168. "This is all about Martin and sorry to say, not you Bernie."

If it wasn't for this, your post would not expose your irrational hate for Bernie. But you couldn't help yourself. We know. You hate the man. So please, let it go. Not for our sake, but yours.

You called me 'irrational'.

That is the response for the ages from men putting women in their place. I see nothing irrational at all about my OP. Passionate and well thought out, yes. Irrational, no.

"But you couldn't help yourself."

That it is impossible for me to control myself??? Another typical response to any strong woman. Saying we are weak, unable to control ourselves through a simple thought process. That we are impulsive and out of control and therefore never to be trusted.

"We know."

"we" who is the almighty we?

Then comes the all knowing arm chair analysis, or should I say keyboard analysis? You da man and sure know what is best for the widdle woman.

So please, let it go. Not for our sake, but yours.

Then your faux, condescending concern about my well being. I can take care of myself just fine, thanks anyway.

[TCJ70]

185. Oh no! I have no defense! I know...make it about gender.

That’s disgusting.

[sheshe2]

186. Bwahahaha

You are a hoot. Your disgust is so noted and laughable. The outrage that a woman would actually stand her ground.

Your disgust of women is so noted.

I have no need to defend myself. I spoke the truth. Full stop.

[mcar]

190. Oh yeah!

You called it, she!

[sheshe2]

194. mcar!

Thanks.



TaDa! to me!

[mcar]

195. You stand, she

Strong and resilient!

[sheshe2]

198. We stand, mcar.

We do it together.

[lapucelle]

208. Is there room for one more "irrational" woman

who just won't pay mind to the men folk who know what's best for them? I'd like to stand with you as well.

[sheshe2]

218. There is always room for you my friend.🤗

The more the merrier! 💕

[brer cat]

207. Hey, girl...

at least he left out "hysterical" and "re-fighting the primaries."

"You hate berrrnieee" has got to be the laziest retort around.

[sheshe2]

216. I guess l should be grateful for small favors!

[all american girl]

212. Sheshe love you and your response

This was so great and spot on. We are all tired of men telling us what to do and think...and if it doesn't need their narrative that we need their saving. Glad you told him how it's going to be...no more of their shit and they are going to have to learn to deal with it.

[sheshe2]

217. Lol 😆

Hey there girl,love ya back~

Thank you 😊

We persist.

[Gothmog]

220. LOL

[George II]

184. How in the world does that "expose" any irrational hate for Bernie, just what IS this...

Last edited Mon Apr 2, 2018, 09:47 PM - Edit history (1)

...."irrational hate for Bernie"? That's a pretty strong accusation or assumption.

That being said, as I've pointed out elsewhere:

MLK Jr. was born and lived in Atlanta Georgia
MLK Jr. was assassinated in Memphis Tennessee
Sanders is Senator from Vermont

This is a commemoration/memorial on the 50th anniversary of MLK Jr.'s assassination. Why is he appearing in Mississippi, and why doesn't he go to any of those other three, more appropriate places? It defies logic.

[sheshe2]

196. Tell it.

Boom!

[lapucelle]

209. There's a small event in Vermont to commemorate the anniversary as well.

Constituents of color in Vermont have real concerns about policing and incarceration rates in BS's home state.

"People of color are being treated unfairly as a result of institutionalized racism across the nation and here in Vermont. In the criminal justice system these disparities create challenges ranging from disproportionate traffic stops to overrepresentation in prisons. Ashley Nellis of The Sentencing Project reported that Vermont leads the nation with 'one in 14 African American males incarcerated'. Stephanie Seguino of UVM reported that 'the Black arrest rate is almost double the White arrest rate'”.

http://justiceforallvt.org/blog/establish-a-the-racial-justice-oversight-board-in-vermont-adopt-h492/

[George II]

210. I'd heard the rate was among the highest in the country, didn't realize it was the worst.

[sheshe2]

221. Bernies state.

He is their Senator, yet does not stand with them. He leaves them alone.

Why?

[all american girl]

213. What's the matter, don't like a woman having her own opinions

You need to check yourself. She owes you nothing. What does it say about you that use every dog whistle word about women? It says that you may have a problem (use your word-hate) for strong women taking a stand against bernie trying to take over an event that has nothing to do with him. This is about MLK, not bernie hour. So please, let it go. Not for our sake, but yours...because we will not be quiet anymore.

[berni_mccoy]

215. Desperately wishing something was there

Doesn't mean it is. The people here seeing evil in Bernie are the ones who need to let go.

[Wwcd]

176. Boy, first he crashes the teenagrs gun rally & now he hijacks MLK

What the fuck is his problem

[sheshe2]

197. Oy.

No clue.

[lillypaddle]

206. Thank you, sheshe

Bernie seems to take credit for a lot of things that have nothing to do with him.

[phleshdef]

211. Ya'll that are jealous of Bernie's popularity are REALLY reaching here and its embarassing...

..to you, not to Sanders.

[LanternWaste]

222. I thought precisely the same thing in regards to Kelly Conway lounging about on a couch

"REALLY reaching here and its embarassing (sic)..."

I thought precisely the same thing in regards to the defenses of Kelly Conway lounging about on a couch in front of the Historically Black Colleges and Universities meeting with Trump.

[IronLionZion]

219. Black people have always taken savage beatings

Why ignore that MLK and other black civil rights leaders organized black people into a powerful and visible political constituency that got politicians to change laws and courts to overturn racist laws and reform policing and establish a lot of protections to reduce the beatings? The marches and civil disobedience taught the powers that be that there are too many black people to beat all of them. Even now the cops will shoot or beat up one or 2 black men or boys but they wouldn't do that to an organized group of hundreds.

The civil rights movement is one of the main reasons my grandparents chose this country to immigrate to from India. Because black civil rights leaders had the foresight to include immigration reform to make America more diverse and provide an alternative backstop to the white power structure through strength in numbers.