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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI think the daughter had something to do with poison attack in England
Watching the Richard Engel on assignment piece...
Mentioned that that the man had lost his wife and son, he was kinda estranged from his daughter...who had remained in Russia while he moved to England.
Then just a month ago she comes to visit, they go to pay respects at the wife's grave, and then get sick?
The Russian guy who was familiar with the nerve agent said even if recovered, the person would remain in life support yet she is recovering well?
I can't say if she knowingly or unknowingly had a part in it, but I find the timing suspicious. Because everything in the news is out of some weird spy novel.
Or slapstick comedy
Or horror film.
FirstLight
(13,364 posts)but this too:
"Because everything in the news is out of some weird spy novel.
Or slapstick comedy
Or horror film. "
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)I didn't say it was a fact, didn't say it was true, didn't say she knowing tried to poison her dad. Just mentioned that after watching the special and the timeline it seemed suspicious.
You don't think...given Putin's rhetoric on how he wants traitors to pay, that she wasn't under observation while living in Russia? That she going to visit her father might be see as an opportunity where his guard might be down? She may have had nothing to do with anything, could have just been an opportunity.
Unless you don't think the Russians didn't poison them, then that's a different argument. I'm assuming they were behind it.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)occasions.
Bayard
(22,149 posts)I hadn't thought of that.
JI7
(89,264 posts)flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)I'm sure it's being looked into as a possibility. But it's unlikely she'd have poisoned herself, so if she was involved, probably unwittingly. Authorities are pretty sure the nerve agent was left on the father's front door, which suggests someone else involved.
SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 31, 2018, 07:15 PM - Edit history (3)
The poison was applied to the door knob of Skripal's house's front door. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/29/ex-russian-spy-skripal-poisoned-by-nerve-agent-on-door-of-home.html That is why both of them were poisoned when they used the front door. That is also how the Salisbury police officer got poisoned, when he went to investigate their house. A very tiny amount, a quarter of a pinhead, of this military grade neurotoxin will kill a person. Experts believe the only reason they did not die immediately is that the dose was diluted since it was absorbed through the skin from the door knob rather than ingested.
If she poisoned him, why would she also poison herself? Why would she put it on a spot, the front door knob, that she needed to touch as well?
Also, although Engel reported she has apparently regained some consciousness, she may, and probably did, sustain at least some brain damage from the neurotoxin. No one intentionally does that to themselves.
Putin sent one of his assassins to smear Novichok on Skripal's front door knob. That's how this happened.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Thankfully he is doing well. A second police officer is being treated as an outpatient.
SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)recovers which basically makes this attack an act of war.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/poisoned-former-double-agent-sergei-skripal-wrote-vladimir-putin-asking-pardoned-095144257.html
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)It could be anything from she was an innocent victim with no knowledge whatsoever but his guard was down because he hadn't seen her in awhile and they went to pay respects to the mom/wife
To she didn't think she would get poisoned (or had some antidote)
To she didn't care, she had already lost the rest of her family.
The estrangement, visit, then poisoned just raised the hairs on the back of my neck.
Listening to how pissed Putin is about traitors and making them pay with their lives, the suspicious deaths in London, the fact the daughter had remained in Russia....
I am fully willing to believe spies saw the opportunity to use the daughter's visit as a chance to get to him and she is completely innocent of any knowledge or participation.
I am not normally a suspicious person, and I know it sounds like something from a cheesy spy movie.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Hard to envision that she just didn't care. And again, she wasn't estranged.
SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 31, 2018, 12:38 PM - Edit history (2)
He came to England as part of a spy swap. I imagine he thought Putin would keep his end of the bargain. What is the point of swapping spies if the spies you get back are then killed by the other side? Teresa May actually made a comment along those lines, that not only is this a vicious murder, but it is Putin in essence reneging on the spy swap. He got his spy back, England didn't.
Alas, Putin is not a man of his word. He is a murderous, lying, authoritarian kleptocrat and a thug. He did this because he thought he could get away with it, now that he has his Orange Puppet in the White House. And he was right. Although Trump put on a show of expelling Russian diplomats over this, it was confirmed that Russia could maintain the same staffing levels. So all Putin is doing is rotating out spies for fresh ones.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)And I imagine the assassin also wore impermeable gloves.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)I don't think much fumes were involved. If the assassin applied it quickly without inhaling and immediately left, as he no doubt did, then he probably would not be exposed to any fumes.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,434 posts)the daughter, who led them to Skripal's house.
Russians don't place much value in human life, unless it's their own. Collateral damage is a given. Putin will kill with impunity. That's what Trumpy likes about him.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)She's lived in England for while and visited him regularly. If they were interested in knowing where he was, they would have known it for many years.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Have you stopped beating your husband?
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)I hope the British citizens did not ingest it because they will also die.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Supposedly she is already eating, drinking and talking.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)I do not believe she will fully cover...eventually she will die.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Nobody lives forever. She is recovering from what has been reported. Maybe, just maybe, the information about the poison you have read wasn't correct.
Response to LisaL (Reply #23)
oasis This message was self-deleted by its author.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)But when the police officer supposedly poisoned by the same thing is already out and about, I am going to believe that this poison isn't as deadly as we were led to believe.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)is merely a matter of time before you die. There is no antidote. And around the same time another Russian was strangled.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)"A chemist who worked in the laboratory developing Novichok accidentally inhaled fumes while filling a syringe, and collapsed. Though he was injected with an antidote and eventually awoke, he suffered from depression and epilepsy and died five years later, leaving Vil Mirzayanov, a scientist who helped develop the agent, deeply disillusioned.
Antidotes exist, but what does antidote mean? Mr. Mirzayanov, who had leaked the project to the press and later immigrated to the United States, told Sky News on Tuesday. Youre saving a person who has been exposed to this gas but temporarily, not to die this time. But he will be an invalid for the rest of his life.
Andrew C. Weber, a former assistant secretary of defense for nuclear, chemical and biological defense programs, recalls picking his way through a secret, abandoned Soviet research facility in Nukus, Uzbekistan, which the United States was asked to helped destroy in the early 2000s.
Entering a basement room, Mr. Weber saw a disturbing sight: dozens and dozens of restraining devices used to immobilize dogs while their skin was exposed to Novichok agents in the form of a powder or paste. He said that he believed each test involved 50 to 100 dogs, and that at least 1,000 dogs had been killed at the facility."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/world/europe/uk-russia-spy-poisoning.html
LisaL
(44,974 posts)So what does that tell you?
oasis
(49,407 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)oasis
(49,407 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)The police officer that was supposedly poisoned by the same poison is said to have recovered.
oasis
(49,407 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)Poison isn't "fatal" if the person poisoned by it is alive and walking around.
oasis
(49,407 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)oasis
(49,407 posts)blake2012
(1,294 posts)There have been people charged with murder when their actions seriously damaged another person and led to a premature death even years later.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)She is said to be recovering, the policeman is already out of the hospital. How is that murder when they are not dead?
blake2012
(1,294 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)😂
oasis
(49,407 posts)blake2012
(1,294 posts)Looking for Post 20 on my phone
LisaL
(44,974 posts)aware of all the latest developments and treatments?
oasis
(49,407 posts)exposed have fully recovered. Until then, I will share the concerns of the accepted experts on the subject.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)oasis
(49,407 posts)is one's chance for a longer life." So there is a certain amount of logic on which we both agree.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)as you suggest. He is arguing based on a sample of ONE. That man, was exposed and treated with an antidote and later suffered from depression and epilepsy, dying of unspecified causes later. While it might be that the poison episode could have triggered epilepsy, I would be more impressed if the medical community made that assessment - not a chemist. Depression is even harder to link to the poisoning as there often is no identifiable cause for depression. In many cases, there is a genetic susceptibility. Note - I am not a doctor, a medical researcher etc and I am not saying that the poison COULD not have caused these later illnesses. What I am saying is that this uses neither a cause and effect analysis showing how the poison operates on the body and why it could or would have these long term effects or (fortunately) a study that shows that a sample of people exposed to this ALL (to make your statement) had these problems.
What I would suggest is that the chemist likely had grave concerns about the program -- possibly seeing the 1000 dogs die - or - just knowing that he was working on developing a potent poison that could, and likely would, be used to kill. He might be questioning his own role in something that led to a war crime.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Much better antidotes could have been developed since then.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)You never know
DrDan
(20,411 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)which is unlikely
DrDan
(20,411 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)Daily mail has photos of her previous visits. Apparently they followed similar routines, eating at the same restaurant.
samnsara
(17,635 posts)...so now they say maybe on the door knobs?
dlk
(11,576 posts)We will probably never really know.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)of a Russian operative type (forget the title or level of authority), and that she was possibly the real target. Something like that. I think I heard that on Rachel Maddow.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Supposedly his mother wasn't happy about it.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)her title or involvement. Yes, the mother had something against the daughter. Maybe it was a convenient two-fer as an excuse to take them both out.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)"I think the daughter had something to do with poison attack in England"
LOL!
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)between her visit and the poisoning. I don't think the two things are unrelated.
I'm sorry - the tin foil hat interferes with my posting
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)His name is understood to be known to several major Moscow newspapers, but has not appeared publicly, nor has he spoken about her fate.
The identity of his mother has not been revealed - she is reported to have high-level connections to the 'siloviki', Vladimir Putin's secret services - and allegedly strongly objected to her son's relationship with the 'daughter of a traitor'.
A High Court judge in London made clear last week that the Russian man Yulia, 33, was intending to marry had made no attempt to get in touch with the hospital where she is in a coma fighting for her life after she and her father were poisoned with nerve agent Novichok.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5557625/Russia-protecting-identity-Yulia-Skripals-mystery-boyfriend.html
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Yulia appeared to love life in England, posting a photograph of Salisbury cathedral to her Facebook page. A video on one of her social media accounts shows the familys back garden in Salisbury. Little rascal, Yulia says, as a squirrel munches on primroses in the well-cared-for flowerbed. She passed her driving test while in England and bought a car. She worked for a while at the Holiday Inn in Southampton, where she appears to have been popular with her colleagues.
...
The family was hit by tragedy in 2012, when Yulias mother, Lyudmila, died in England of cancer. Last year, her older brother, Alexander, died of liver failure while on holiday in St Petersburg at the age of 43. He was buried in Salisbury, near his mother. The BBC cited relatives who say the circumstances of his death were suspicious. Yulia removed family photographs from her social media account last year, according to friends. It remains unclear why. She returned to Russia in 2014, but continued to visit England often.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/yulia-skripal-from-suburban-moscow-life-to-nerve-agent-mystery
She appears to have worked for PepsiCo Russia in Moscow after 2014.
I thought that she had some connection with the American embassy in Moscow, but I can't find a reference.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)Since Skripal was hiding, maybe the current version of the KGB used her to locate him. Then whoever was following applied the toxin to the doorknob.
underpants
(182,877 posts)Having not seen the report in question and figuring that I can't see someone poisoning themself (unless coerced or under some sort of pressure) I'd say that tracking her lead them to him. Of course if there was anything to the OP's speculation having her die too would take care of a lot of loose ends.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Who says he was hiding?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)She was visiting him regularly.
underpants
(182,877 posts)If I'm wrong about that excuse me. My mistake.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Like the guy who wrote the dossier?
csziggy
(34,137 posts)That he'd been living in hiding since moving to the UK.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)They went to the same restaurant. Kind of hard to understand how he was hiding when it appears he was living a regular life in UK.
SunSeeker
(51,694 posts)Skripal definitely was not in hiding:
Putin knew where he lived, and that is where he poisoned him.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Certainly his family were very open about their connection to him and Salisbury.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/yulia-skripal-from-suburban-moscow-life-to-nerve-agent-mystery
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Add to that, she wasn't estranged from her father. She lived in England for a while, then she had moved back to Russia, but she was regularly vising her father in England.