The DU hack on election night....

[Laurian]

With all the news about the CA/Facebook manipulation, I'm wondering if there's any connection to the DU hack.

I will never forget that surreal experience coinciding with the stunning election results.

[JNelson6563]

1. Ok, DU isn't on anyone's radar.

It's very likely due to the hatred here. Some ended up hating this place so deeply (2016 primary) it became obsession. I witnessed it in one group of posters. It was disturbing.

This forum doesn't matter to the political world outside of the community here. That's not meant as an insult, take an objective look around. There is almost zero original content of substance. Lots of good stuff from other sources and who needs FB? Much of what's there gets posted here.

I will never get why any of you think DU actually merits the sort of attention from the enemy you think it does. Sure there are freepers and JPR, both tiny backwater dregs type sites. Both angry, both hate DU. A lot.

On edit: Kos didn't go down and they actually are a bit of a powerhouse of a forum.

[Tavarious Jackson]

2. I disagree.

During the primary this place was loaded with Russian trolls.

[JNelson6563]

4. Ok.

And who do you think enjoyed their anti Hillary shit? Hmm?

If you guess the especially obsessive folks I previously mentioned, you're correct. They were everywhere spreading their poison. Come election night their work was done.

Got any counter-points to any of the points I actually addressed? Cause that's be cool.

[bearsfootball516]

6. Because during the primary, sowing division mattered.

But come election night, what was DU going to do to prevent the election results from happening? Nothing.

[Brainstormy]

8. I disagree too

the name alone, Democratic Underground, would have made us a likely target!

[Amishman]

12. Are we sure the trolls were russian and not the regular kind?

I know several right wing sites make it a hobby to try and troll here.

[LeftInTX]

61. I think it was RW trolls

They were convinced that Hillary was going to win and didn't want to see us celebrate.

That's why I don't think it was Russians.

[we can do it]

13. Me too!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. During the Ukrainian crisis in 2014 especially they were all over the place.

Basically priming for the disinformation campaign to come.

[bearsfootball516]

3. Nailed it.

DU is a cool place for us to gather and talk, but on a worldwide scale, it's irrelevant. What point would Russia have to shutting down DU?

[JNelson6563]

5. Thank you.

Good to know not everyone here has an unhealthy attachment. That's kinda weird, eh?

[bearsfootball516]

10. I've come to enjoy DU very much.

But I do think it's amusing when people believe Russia thought DU was so critical to election night that they needed to crash the website.

[uponit7771]

49. During the election DU had the most visits of any sole political board, Reddit was first but it

... wasn't sole politics

[MineralMan]

7. Very likely, you are correct.

It seems more likely that some disgruntled former DUer or right-wing asshole did it. I don't know for sure, of course. I doubt that even the admins here know who did it.

There was some chatter about it at places like 4chan and one gun-nut website, but I never could pin the culprit down, although there was one 4chan person who posted something pretty incriminating, which I alerted the admins about.

We did have a few obvious Russian trolls hanging around, but not as many as some probably think. Still, there are plenty of DU haters out there, and they're more likely suspects than Russian trolls. DU just isn't that influential, really, on a national political basis. It's fairly homogeneous, really, and nothing much would be accomplished by taking it down.

We'll probably never know, though, for sure.

[SWBTATTReg]

15. Unfortunately someone thought DU was worth taking down...

I hope that perhaps (1) won't be a repeat of the downtime and (2) perhaps a comprehensive recovery plan be developed to allow DU to reopen within x number of minutes/hours on other backup platforms if need be.

[Greybnk48]

16. Are you kidding me? You are sorely mistaken, perhaps having

not been here very long?

DU is extremely well known and used by average people and politicians alike, not just disenfranchised basement dwellers in their underpants like "dregs sites."

We are as much, or more of a powerhouse than Kos, just different. Ask around.

[bearsfootball516]

21. I would love to know what notable politicians use DU.

[NCTraveler]

28. A staff member acting like Grayson shows up every now and then to beg for money. nt.

[treestar]

34. Elizabeth Edwards was a member

though those are glory days that could be passed.

There was someone else who joined up and we were not to bash him because that was bashing a member!

[NCTraveler]

36. There have been a couple of big names that seem to have been verified.

I'm trying to have a little more fun with my posts lately. Just went with Grayson.

[Greybnk48]

58. I don't see the "notable" anywhere in my post.

Why embellish just to win a false victory? Elizabeth Edwards posted on here around the 2004 election and afterward when she was fighting cancer. Alan Grayson used to post here occasionally. Michael Moore. Keith Olbermann was in contact with people here during the height of his importance as a political commentator. We bought him a tie he wore on Countdown. Barbara Boxer may not have posted but was well aware of DU.

Other's know more than I. DU is not a rinky-dink site, but we do attract small people at times.

[jalan48]

18. I agree. We arm chair quarterbacks think our opinions have more weight in the world than they

actually have.

[NCTraveler]

26. Interesting and possible angle.

I do think this place poses a bit more significance than you give it credit for.

That said, some ex members here are truly disturbed individuals.

[FSogol]

47. +1. True. n/t

[TheFrenchRazor]

60. seriously? think you've been misinformed. nt

[MicaelS]

14. I have never been satisfied about the explanation...

For the hack. Nor the Admins' apologies.

No real explanation about who they think did it, or where it might have came from.

However, the Admins' are ultimately at fault for the hack because they failed to properly secure their slapdash DC Scripts forum software. I am willing to bet the hack would never have happened if they had used a proven forum platform like Vbulletin.

Plus the length of time it was down.

All in all, it was a very poor showing.

[MineralMan]

17. The admins of this site were blindsided by that exploit.

How it occurred required some serious modifications of the site's structure, no doubt. The changes that were made are not immediately apparent to typical DUers, but they certainly exist and remain.

While I have no connection to the administration of this website, the time it took to get it back up and running would seem to indicate that they took their time and made all the changes needed to secure it effectively.

Kudos to them for not just taking the site down and writing it off. That is probably what I would have done, frankly. They did not do that, but, instead, kept it offline until they were confident that such an exploit would not succeed in the future.

As for using something like Vbulletin, that was a decision made long ago. Designing their own proprietary platform was a lot of work, but apparently something they thought was needed. There is a lot of effort expended in researching exploits against standard forum software, and less that targets proprietary platforms. That may have been part of the admins decision to cook up their own software.

In any case, we have DU. Its community moderation system is unique, whether you like it or not. It's designed to be a more or less hands-off system for administrators, which is a worthy goal, I think. Since the hack, the system has been very, very stable, and for quite some time now.

I appreciate DU very much. It's the only political forum I use. I missed it after the hack, and was glad to see it return.

Bottom line: The admins of this site have no responsibility to explain exactly what happened in that hack. It's their site, and we are guests on it. Some of us support the site financially, as we are able. Many do not. DU is what it is. The decision of whether or not to use it is up to each of us. I do not criticize the site or its administrators. It's their website.

[brooklynite]

19. Why would they waste the money...

First, as much as people love it, DU has no influence on politics in the real world.

Second, even if you assume it does, why would anyone hack it on election night, when it would be too late to change things.

[MineralMan]

20. That's why I see it as a purely malicious exploit.

No money involved. I think it was probably a solo effort. Someone discovered a back door entry point and exploited it. That entry point is now locked up, I'm sure.

The hack, I think, was vandalism, done for bragging rights only.

[uponit7771]

50. The hack was front door and pretty sophisticated to carry out. Like a nuke the explosive

... part is pretty easy the materials are damn near impossible to get and handle.

The front door method had to be exact and well timed, then the DDOS.

Looking at the changes it was multi prongs too not just DB thrashing.

There was no doubt troll patterns in 16 along with the horrid American language understanding

DU was the most hit sole purpose political board in 2016 IIRC before the attack, if it wasn't tops then it was up there under REDDIT.

Not wanting to over state DU cause its a blip worldwide but the 16 attack was above some 400 lb guy living with his mother in a basement.

[ooky]

31. My guess as to why

That night there was a large scale effort by Russian bots and trolls to convince Bernie supporters not to vote for Hillary. If they were able to go to sites where there were known to be a lot of left wing voters and shut them down, it would prevent them from talking to one another to appeal to each other to go vote for Hillary anyway, despite their negative feelings about the primaries. If I remember correctly weren’t the polls still open when the site shut down?

[A Brand New World]

43. Yes, the polls were still open.

I don't have an exact time but it was around 5:15 pm EST.

[UCmeNdc]

22. I agree... I think DU was a target for Russian hackers.

DU had people who reported on voting results in real time at the county by county level. Some DU members most likely would have noticed and documented at precise moments when vote counts irregularities occurred. They would report here on DU within that hour and questions would be asked. Many sent back to the county level democratic voting officials. It has happened in previous elections.

Not this time. DU went down in flames.......

[bearsfootball516]

23. That's quite the assumption to make.

That a couple hundred people on an online message board could turn the course of a presidential election.

[UCmeNdc]

25. I said look at Trump's connections to Cambridge Analytica here on DU 4 months before the election

Many said.... What are you talking about


I said right when it happened here on DU, Comey just cost Hillary Clinton the election. Many on DU said what are you talking about.


Now I am saying and I said it before right after the election when DU came back online, DU was hacked to stop its ability to follow local elections in real time. Now many are saying what are you talking about.

[bearsfootball516]

37. Being right on two precious occasions about unrelating events

Doesn’t cause you to automatically become correct about this instance, especially when there’s no proof of it.

[anneboleyn]

45. I agree. I thought the same regarding Comey. What is with the du is totally insignificant flood of

posts on here?!! Hell, I’ve seen small youtubers, with about 30k subscribers, get hacked for political reasons. DU was definitely targeted for a reason on election night — why certain posters are acting like this is totally impossible just confuses me...

[anneboleyn]

44. There were other, smaller sites and youtubers targeted. I have no idea why I am seeing

this bizarre “the Russians and/or Trumpers would never ever target totally insignificant du ever!” — some people seem to have no idea how and why these types target the sites and individuals they target. DU would have been a prime target for many reasons, and I am not a “du is the most important political site in the world” type. In fact the flood of posts trying to argue for du’s total insignificance (are they forgetting that du was in fact hacked? If it was so insignificant why would anyone at all have bothered?) just seem weird to me.

[radius777]

54. Exactly, many liberal sites/blogs were targeted,

it was a larger effort to create chaos and demoralize Democratic voters.

Whether it was part of an official Russian effort or not - remember that the alt-right (and alt-left, who hate Dems almost as much) is a global movement.

[WillowTree]

46. As voting was taking place, no less.

That's quite a reach.

[uponit7771]

51. Reporting of the results is what the poster typed not changing of them. The reporting

... on the county level is what was out of norm that night and that's where the IC said hacks happened in 16.

State and local level election boards were hacked

[mythology]

24. Considering none of the vote changing conspiracies has any basis

That's rather dubious. Richard Charmin has been posting nonsensical theories for years and I don't think anybody has taken his site down.

[Renew Deal]

29. DU is the best place to document a crime in progress

Get rid of DU and you get rid of one of the most efficient sources of information

[bearsfootball516]

30. Again, that is an incredible assumption to make.

[Renew Deal]

32. What is the assumption?

That DU is efficient or that there was a crime?

[bearsfootball516]

35. Both.

Is there any history of DU discocering election discrepancies, reporting them, and then having the outcome of the election changed? Because I’d love to see that if it’s true.

And Russia did engage in a massive disinformation campaign for months leading up to the election, but there’s literally no proof of voting irregularities on Election Day.

[Renew Deal]

38. The purpose of DU is not to have the outcome of the election changed

It's to document what took place and hopefully bring visibility to it.

The rest of your comments sound all too familiar comrade.

[bearsfootball516]

39. Now youre moving the goalposts because you dont have evidence to back up your claims.

And engaging in ad hominem fallacies by calling me comrade.

[Renew Deal]

40. How so

I said: "DU is the best place to document a crime in progress

Get rid of DU and you get rid of one of the most efficient sources of information"

I never said that a crime took place (other than hacking DU, and everything Mueller has gotten guilty pleas over). I 100% stand by that. Getting rid of DU is the best way to destroy evidence.

[bearsfootball516]

41. Because theres no evidence to suggest DU aid really that important

Like I’ve said before, it’s a cool place to talk politics. But there’s nothing that points to Russia being so unnerved at the prospect that DU would document potential election night irregularities that they would crash the site.

Heck, I’d LOVE it if we were relevant enough that Russia saw us as a threat.

[poboy2]

33. Pretty simple really. Take out this place is like flattening the tires of the police car.

[backtoblue]

48. I agree Renew Deal nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

42. It sucked

to not have any support on what was one of the worst nights of our lives (maybe only next to 2000 and 2004)

[rusty fender]

53. So demoralizing

and depressing. It was meant to have this effect.

In light of the CambAnal revelations, I think DU’s takedown was another aspect of the digital war on Hillary supporters.

[cilla4progress]

52. PT

SD

[radius777]

55. DU is the largest pro-Dem forum.

I've been reading DU off-and-on for many years. I had other logins I lost when I changed computers.

I can tell you that there are many issues that DU was on top of first, angles/memes shaped right here. I remember in 2004 how intense this place was, and how let down we were when Kerry lost.

Sure, there are other liberal sites, but most of those are infested with alt-lefties and Dixiecrats who hate the Dem party.

DU has always stood for the center-left, mainstream liberal Democrat - you know, the rank and file Clinton/Obama Dem voter who tends to get driven out of the typical lefty site.

As such, it is a target for enemies not only on the right but the left as well.

[Phentex]

56. DU is older than Facebook and Twitter...

it's on somebody's radar. And at the rate things are going, it may outlast Facebook.

I love it when somebody says DU isn't relevant. It's like saying McDonalds is so bad nobody eats there.

[Initech]

57. I'm pretty sure it was the work of 4chan / 8chan.

Though I wouldn't put it past CA to stoop that low.

[Laurian]

59. It might have been done out of sheer spite rather than for specific political gain.

Evil misfits out to conquer and destroy, no matter the consequences.

The world is upside down to me these days and after all the revelations about Facebook and CA (with the involvement of Bannon and Mercer), nothing would surprise me.

I think I also recall hearing that Obama cautioned Zuckerberg about some issues before the election.