WALK OUT - my daughter just finished theirs

[underpants]

The county relented last week. No punishment no restrictions on sports tryouts or the big field trip.

I'm very proud of her. ❤️

[mainstreetonce]

1. Your daughter is a brave American

Her generation will be heard. Every election will matter.

Thank you , Miss underpants.

[PunksMom]

2. Both of my granddaughters participated

in Baltimore...so proud of them.

[ffr]

3. You have to hear these Livingston H.S., NJ, students sing

Link to tweet

Students at Livingston High School in New Jersey sing an adaptation of Brian Stokes Mitchell’s “Make Them Hear You" as part of their walkout. #NationalWalkoutDay

[Sophia4]

35. Wonderful! Thanks.

[Eliot Rosewater]

54. LOL I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy the GOP and NRA decided to take on

ONE

HUNDRED

MILLION

AMERICANS

(how many are aged 10-30? more probably)

Love this video.

[Still In Wisconsin]

4. My three daughters did theirs, and all three now face suspensions. My youngest is kicked off

the track team and the older two are kicked out of National Honor Society. Welcome to red state Wisconsin I guess... but obviously we are proud of them.

[mama]

5. That is terrible!

[X_Digger]

6. Civil disobedience has consequences. Why are some surprised?

Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Wear it with pride.

[moriah]

9. Only that one unexcused absence from one class is being punished so severely.

I would question the history of expulsion from the Honor Society or exclusion from sports tryouts for missing one class in a school day.

If others who have been caught skipping class were punished less severely for a first offense, then it is likely the district will be in deep shit if enough parents complain about politically-motivated excessive punishments.

Edot to add: yes, civil disobedience has consequences. No, it shouldn't have more consequences than the same disobedience not involving political speech.

[X_Digger]

10. If punishment was differentially applied, sure.

Perhaps it's not simply 'missing a class' / 'skipping class', but the disruption caused by leaving class in the middle of a period.

ie, don't compare an apple to an orange. What's the punishment for a kid standing up and saying, "I'm out of here." and leaving school by him/herself- compare the punishment for that to today's protest.

If they're the same.. tough shit. Civil disobedience has a cost. Deal with it, or don't do it.

[moriah]

18. Again, look at the district's policy book, etc, and history of similar violations.

One NJ district technically could knock 10 points off of that class's quarter average grade for their students who protest, as "cutting class" has a higher penalty than merely an unexcused absence (which would be detention on first offense, not suspension).

But again, if you protest, know the rules you'll be breaking and the punishment. And fight if that punishment is more punitive than guidance demands.

[X_Digger]

23. That's what I'm suggesting- 'cutting class' is not the same as disrupting class and/or..

leaving school grounds without permission or in the accompany of their parent (whatever the offense is called.)

If they're applying a stronger punishment for the same offense today, for a political protest, than they are for an individual just getting up and saying, "gotta go, see ya"-- then they're in trouble.

If not? Take the punishment and don't whine.

[Sophia4]

36. Stopping gun violence is in the best interest of the school.

They should not punish kids for standing up for what is right for the school.

Punishing the students for protesting gun violence is foolish and wrong.

[X_Digger]

44. Schools should apply rules evenly.

Schools should not be endorsing one political cause over another.

Should christian students be able to protest abortion by scheduling walk-outs without consequence? How about white nationalists?

Anti-immigration?

Or is it only causes that you agree with that you think should be endorsed and consequence free?

[Sophia4]

46. The difference is that this cause is about school safety, and thus the school should

be interested in supporting the students demonstrating for school safety.

None of the other causes are related to the school itself.

It isn't just a political cause. It is about safety in our schools.

In fact, school safety as a cause crosses all political and religious lines. It should not be a divisive issue at all.

It is only because there is a lot of money to be made in selling guns to crazy fanatics.

[X_Digger]

48. Not political? Umm, riiight. No politics in sight.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.



I get it- the causes that you care about should cause the school to be more lenient when rules are broken.

Free hint: Others could make the same 'important' claim about abortion, or immigration, or.. etc.

[Sophia4]

50. These gun issue walkouts are very specifically the result of the many, many dead

CHILDREN due to the shooting of guns in our schools. It is not political. There can only be one moral opinion on it: the school shootings have to stop.

It is not a political issue.

It is an issue about safety in our schools.

I have children and grandchildren. I want them to be safe in their schools. If the slide was broken, I would go to the school and complain about it.

When we have so many school shootings, it is a definite indication that our gun laws are broken. We need to fix them. It is no more a political issue than fixing the slide in the school yard. It is a school security issue. We need to demand that school authorities and our government fix it.

[X_Digger]

57. aka, this issue is *special* and needs to be treated *differently*

No.

Schools can't be choosing which issues they endorse and which civil disobedience they punish and which they ignore.

[Sophia4]

61. The school can demonstrate on its own behalf and encourage its students to do so.

The issue is school violence.

And the school is correct in encouraging its students to participate in public demonstrations on that issue which affects the schools and that school so definitely.

The school is just as much within its rights to assist students in protesting school shootings as it is to assist students in protesting any other kind of school violence. If bullies among the children or from outside the school were beating children in the school yard, the school would absolutely be within its rights to encourage the children to protest the beatings in any way they want to. In fact, a school near me has a sign in front of the school warning against school violence. I think that is great.

[X_Digger]

63. If the school sets up an event, then it's sanctioned, and participation would pose no issue.

But to ask a school to look the other way for one act of civil disobedience and punish another?

No, schools should not be in the business of endorsing one political position over another w/r/t punishment.

[Sophia4]

65. As I pointed out, demonstrating to protect the lives of one's fellow students is not

the same as "endorsing one political position over another."

This is about saving lives.

This is about demonstrating to save lives in schools.

School shootings are a safety issue.

Demonstrating for gun legislation aimed to stop the killing of our children is the equivalent of demonstrating for safe crossings in front of the schools, for safe slides and swings, for safety in any aspect of education.

CHILDREN HAVE DIED due to our lax laws with regard to shootings in schools. This has to be corrected. If a school lunch room served food that caused deaths due to food poisoning and no one did anything about it, the school would be right in allowing the students to protest without penalties.

This is a safety issue that affects all children. It is not a political issue in the usual sense. This is an issue that directly has affected many, many American children and their families.

The shooting in Parkland was the last straw. No school should punish any student who participates in efforts to end the school shootings.

[X_Digger]

66. They're seeking to influence legislation from a political body. Don't be disingenuous.

Of course it's political.

The rabid right would say the same about abortion- CHILDREN ARE DYING, etc.

[Sophia4]

67. Legislation to promote safety in schools.

It's no different from demonstrating to obtain legislation that would better fund the schools or support school safety in terms of guards at crosswalks or safer school buses.

This is a legislative issue that affects the schools and education. Of course students can demonstrate in favor of it.

As I said, my local school posts a sign to address the problem of school bullying. The shootings in the schools are an extreme form of school bullying.

[X_Digger]

68. Schools should apply rules evenly.

There's no "this rule doesn't apply when it's an issue we like" clause.

The last thing we need is schools deciding which rule breaking they punish and which they don't.

No. Just no.

[Still In Wisconsin]

11. THIS! None of my girls has ever been in trouble at school. Normally a first unexcused absence would

mean a call home. Nothing more. BUT because the school Superintendent is a major right-wing authoritarian, the girls get a suspension on their record, and my youngest cannot participate in a sport she loves. I don't know for a fact that the Superintendent is a TRUMP-humper but I expect he is.

[OnDoutside]

21. They should picket his office.

[moriah]

22. Well, look at the district code of conduct book and all for any possible violation they...

... could be labeling the walkout as. And see the usual punishment.

I saw one NJ student handbook could count it as "cutting class" and drop the kid's grade by 10 points that quarter in the class on the first offense. There might be something they're legally using to punish so severely.

But if not, join with the other parents and fight like hell.

[Sophia4]

37. Parents should petition for his removal.

[lagomorph777]

34. Sounds like your school board have been taking #NRAROUBLES.

Sick fucks.

[LanternWaste]

17. What leads you to believe there is surprise?

What leads you to believe there is surprise?

I see resignation of consequence, but no surprise...

[X_Digger]

20. Tone.

Tone.

Reading comprehension allows one to read tone in text.

[moriah]

24. Uh, tone is often MISread in text.

Which, in my nearly 26 years of experience communicating online about hot-button issues, is the primary cause of many misunderstandings and flame wars.

Another cause is sloppy grammar, particularly using the word "you" to mean "one" or "a person".

[rainin]

32. Don't wear it with pride. Fight it!

Actions like this by authority figures should be fought, not submitted to. "Wearing it" just discourages others -- which is exactly what they want. Get a lawyer. Reach out to anyone who will listen. Use social media. Get sponsors to support court action. Make them an example that if they treat these kids any differently than kids who miss school for any other unexcused reason, they will lose their jobs.

My HS kids had unexcused absences and never got forced from their sport or National Honor Society. That is clear abuse of power.

FIGHT IT!!

[X_Digger]

33. Unexcused absence is not the same as walking out of class, leaving school grounds

If they'd protested by not showing up at school today (a la some labor events) then if the punishment were worse than any other unexcused absence, then there'd be reason to fight.

I noticed that in one district kids just went to the gym, and only one student left school grounds. Apparently some students are aware of the consequences of leaving school grounds and choose to exercise civil disobedience in a more tame manner.

[rainin]

39. The school officials must be made to prove that this consequence is written policy and that

every unexcused absence is treated with the same punishment.

(Not the same district, years ago) My son left school without signing out and he was reminded when he returned that he needed to sign out. No consequence. Other than confirming it wasn't an excused absence, he wasn't required to state why he left.

When he was absent, his absence was either documented as excused or unexcused. He was allowed several unexcused absences before consequences kicked in and those were a matter of district policy and enforced fairly.

I would get advice from a good attorney. I would absolutely give the Principal/Superintendent the opportunity to reverse this decision. If he doesn't, I would proceed with legal action.

I am not against consequences, but we can all see this is political. As parents, we are allowed to demand that all children be treated equally. A school official isn't God. Sometimes, he/she can make a wrong call. Removing these kids from their sport and the NHS is a punitive action taken by a control freak.

[X_Digger]

45. Equal treatment is exactly where this is. Some want no consequence for causes they endorse.

Would you say the same if a group of white nationalists staged a walkout?

[rainin]

47. How is this equal treatment?

Show me the written policy that forbids this.

[X_Digger]

49. Leaving school grounds without permission? Disrupting class?

I'm sure every school has rules to that effect. Wouldn't you agree?

[rainin]

51. Of course, it's called an unexcused absence.

Every school has rules about unexcused absences. I don't recall all of them, but I do remember that if my kids got more than 3 (or 5?) then they would no longer be eligible for exemption from the final exam in their AP classes. That was one rule.

So my kids took their final exams in addition to the AP exams when they exceeded that number of absences. They were never kicked out of National Honor Society, nor were they kicked off their sports teams.

So, yes, there are rules.

[X_Digger]

58. Perhaps your school calls it something different.

In the schools around here, an unexcused absence is ditching for the day.

Getting up in the middle of the day, disrupting class and walking out and leaving school grounds is not simply an unexcused absence.

Not at any of the public nor private schools I'm familiar with.

[moriah]

53. It depends. Again, "know the law" is huge.

In the Little Rock School District, a walkout is encompassed under the Category I rule:

"Rule 5: Leaving School Grounds/ Class Without Permission of a School Official/Skipping/Cutting Class"

Insubordination or not following a reasonable order from a teacher is also a Category I.

The maximum allowed punishment is in-school suspension for any first offense of violating a Category I rule. There is no mandatory punishment for a first Category I violation, and contacting a parent is not mandatory.

So, in Little Rock, if any student is given a full suspension vs ISS, there's definitely a claim for going above what the district has mandated as reasonable discretion on punishments.

Edit to add: Looked up what our district decided, and it looks like the ealkouts were essentially designated a "voluntary assembly" lasting 30 minutes in total, and students would only be punished if out of class longer than that. So 17 for the assembly and 5 minutes to-from it, with 3 minutes for hallway delays.

http://katv.com/news/local/arkansas-students-participate-in-walkout-after-florida-school-shooting

[X_Digger]

59. So the answer to my question (surely there is a rule?) is-- yes.

There is a written policy that proscribes the behavior in question.

Thanks.

[moriah]

62. And also mandates the discretion range for punishment.

That's the key thing for deciding if a school has gone beynd enforcement of regular rules to illegal suppression of speech.

As I said, LRSD went ahead and decided the least disruptive thing was to allow/regulate the assembly. That may not be the decision of all school districts, and a smart thing for organizers to have done prior in each school would have been getting the student government to petition the school to sanction it in that way. Essentially, asking for a permit in the adult world. Thrre could have been lawsuits if the permit was denied when other groups had been allowed assemblies during classtime.

But say you didn't get your permit and decide to demonstrate anyway, in the adult world, and tried to stand silent for 17 minutes, or have another peaceful but possibly noisy assembly. You shouldn't get charged with conspiracy to incite a riot if your protest was peaceful -- disorderly conduct possibly, but not rioting. It got thrown out against the DC protesters as over-charging.

So if LRSD had not decided to roll with it, and students demonstrated peacefully then got back to class, had they received harsher punishment than the maximum of ISS... or had they tried to classify peaceful assembly as actual rioting.... then there would have been grounds for unhappiness for the district.

[X_Digger]

64. Tinker v Des Moines is the case that sets the bar re disruption vs non-disruptive protest in school.

It's not quite analogous to speech in a public setting, but it doesn't swing 100% in the school's favor, either.

Smart of LRSD to set boundaries for the sanctioned activity- I assume students stayed on campus. Had a student chosen to go further
and leave campus (like the one student in.. what was it.. NJ?) I expect punishment would have been appropriate (commensurate with their standing rules, of course).

[marybourg]

56. Disobedience

Sorry to correct - but experience has proved that one mistake can beget a new and incorrect usage

[X_Digger]

60. Thanks, fixed. n/t

[moriah]

7. Appeal if you can...

... especially on the Honor Society thing.

Look at prior trends for punishment for skipping one class. If the punishment applied is excessive, there's a good chance they broke the law. I can't imagine one unexcused absence from a class normally results in expulsion from the National Honor Society.

[rurallib]

14. Standing up in the face of consequences is one of the greatest lessons a person can learn

Your daughters deserve our admiration for their stand.

[pandr32]

16. Tell them we are all so proud of them

They are the change this country needs.

[Blue_Adept]

28. I hope this kids don't organize to try and get rid of a superintendent...

[Eliot Rosewater]

55. Hopefully the entire track team went and are suspended, and same with NHS, these fucking

rightwing traitorous black hating, woman hating, gay hating assholes will learn even if it has to be the HARD way.

if EVERYBODY is suspended, they wont have a choice but to stop suspending people.

[MontanaMama]

8. My kiddo walk out in 25 minutes.

We got home last night after 25 hours of traveling from Australia and I offered to let him sleep in and he declined stating he wanted to be part of the walk out. These kids are changing the world. It’s quite moving.

[kag]

43. Awesome!

Let your son know how proud we all are of him. He is an inspiration. All of these kids are.

[niyad]

12. I salute all these brave and wonderful young people.

[smirkymonkey]

13. That's great! You should be proud of her!

I have to hand it to Charlie Baker, our Republican governor of MA (and I never thought I would say this) but I heard him on TV yesterday talking about the blizzard and the walkout today and he endorsed it and said he had spoken to some young people and believed that they weren't about politics, but that they needed to take this issue into their own hands because they didn't feel like adults were listening. Why the hell can't more Republicans be like him? He is actually rational and decent.

[Blue_Adept]

15. New England Republicans are a dying breed

There aren't any that I'd actively vote for over a Democrat at the moment, but I still feel proud of my vote for Weld in the 90's and Baker has been a solid governor. I don't agree with certain stands but he's not trying to radicalize the state but work within it. I've much respect for him and he's handled all of these weather storms VERY well.

[smirkymonkey]

19. Actually, the only time in my life I have ever voted for a Republican was when William

Weld ran against John Silber for Governor of MA. I was die-hard Democrat, but socially, it was almost like the parties were reversed and Silber was just an odious human being and very anti-woman. Weld was a social liberal and a moderate in other areas, so I cast my vote for him. That is probably the first and last time I will ever vote republican. Why are NE/MA Republicans so unpopular? Is it because they aren't hateful enough?

[Blue_Adept]

25. That was my Weld vote as well

Silber was just plain wrong on all levels. I couldn't understand how he was a Dem in MA.

[poboy2]

26. Thank your daughter for her service. -nt

[SergeStorms]

27. This is a wonderful experience for them.

Their generation will be a generation of DOERS, not indifferent spectators.

Thanks for raising a daughter with a social conscience.

[benld74]

29. STL NEws this morning

Individual schools were mentioned as taking part in the WALK OUTS.

Other schools, stuck by the blunt, mundane statements of
Walk outs are against school policy and will be dealt with as such
Such idiots were in majority within STL unfortunately
My daughter's was NOT

[H2O Man]

30. Recommended.

Please thank your wonderful daughter for me!

My youngest is in college. I had hoped they could do something today, but they are on spring break.

[Gothmog]

31. You should be very proud of your daughter

[crazycatlady]

38. Great!

I am very proud of Gen Z.

[GallopingGhost]

40. Nickelodeon

TV channel pulled programming for seventeen minutes this morning in solidarity.

I am so proud of all these brave kids and the parents, grandparents and community members who are supporting them.

There is still hope for this country.

[underpants]

41. Wow. I didn't know that.

Thanks.

[GallopingGhost]

42. I saw it when

I was changing channels.

It surprised me but it was awesome. Kudos to them!

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. Sounds like no big deal, walking out for an hour or two, so what, why even bother.

But it is a big deal ESPECIALLY given the age of some of the walk-outs.

Not to mention the push-back from the right-wingers both students and parents.

Think of how much sooner the Vietnam War might have ended had the protesters started when they were 9.

Proud of you and your daughter!

[NewJeffCT]

69. Glad so many walked out

My daughter's high school is on break, so she didn't have a chance to do it.