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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsU.S. Sen. Sanders rallies in Lubbock of all places
By Matt Dotray / A-J Media
Posted Mar 10, 2018 at 7:44 PM
Excerpt:
Progressives on the Panhandle/South Plains hadnt had a politically rally like what took place Saturday afternoon at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center in a long time, if ever. It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution, a grassroots organization built on continuing the policy messages of U.S. Senator and former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. Our Revolution must truly be taking this message everywhere, because 66 percent of Lubbock County voted for President Donald Trump in 2016. And 66 percent for a Republican candidate in West Texas is on the low side in recent years.
Sanders, a Vermont Independent, was in Lubbock to host the rally that drew a crowd well over the 1,000 person seating capacity. People werent turned away, but instead began lining the walls around the Civic Centers banquet hall.
Im not here to tell you that Im an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not, Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. This I do know when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and youve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said. Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/20180310/us-sen-sanders-rallies-in-lubbock-of-all-places
Cha
(297,833 posts)dalton99a
(81,648 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Don't they have problems there, their Senator should be attending to?
Cha
(297,833 posts)of Vermont in Lubbock, Texas, of course!
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)asking people to vote... for Democrats.
What are you doing, besides posting to a message board?
George II
(67,782 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Poo-poo all you want, but it was impressive turnout in deep red-ville, eight months before the midterms.
George II
(67,782 posts)...in a town that's, say, 51-49%?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I'd like to see Bernie in SW PA, but I have no idea whether he was invited by the Lamb campaign or whether he reached out to them. Do you?
Bernie's been all over the place. What "town," specifically, do you feel is being ignored?
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Milwaukee, Columbus, basically every urban center in the upper midwest?
Wait, hold it, just a sec, are we talking about THIS election? Are we talking about Bernie?
My mistake.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)can you imagine what it's gonna be like as we get closer to the mid-terms?!
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)I think they've thrown so many of the people they were counting on in 2020 under the bus (e.g., Kamala Harris and Corey Booker for backing Medicaid for All; Kirsten Gillibrand for tipping the sacred cow - and NO, I'm not talking about Al Franken) that they're terrified that Sanders will enter as the early leader for the nomination. They will burn the party down to stop it from moving left.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Perhaps Deval Patrick will save the day! (Until he does something that doesn't meet with their approval.) And if there's anything we learned on this site between 2008 and 2016, it's that a candidate considered by many to be unfit to serve, magically becomes the most qualified candidate in the history of candidates.
Mahalo!
George II
(67,782 posts)Your "Mahalo! " has been duly noted.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)It's rather anti-climactic.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"magically" becomes the most qualified Demcratic candidate in the history of candidates.
A substantial majority of Democratic voters didn't agree with that assessment, however.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)So that's how some folks saw Bernie, not that he was less qualified, not that someone else was better, but "unfit to serve?"
How pathetic, how tribal, how destructive.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)
Which is what the post I replied to did. In a passively worded way.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)I'm sorry you see ANY criticism of the 2016 campaign as a personal attack on our candidate. IT ISN'T . . . get over it.
We had a great candidate and she should have been so far ahead that a million Russian trolls and a million Comeys would have rolled off her back.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)despite the statistical improbability of a party keeping the WH for more than two consecutive terms, voter suppression, Russian misinformation, misogyny on the Right and Left, and 25 years of smears from the GOP.
I'd call that pretty damn impressive.
And I'd say you're the one projecting.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)It could happen, but it's not likely Bernie will lead the pack. I'm not seeing the kind of support that he received in the late fall of 2015. Bernie supporters on Twitter seem to be more focused on asking Dems to give Bernie a second look.
The signs are there that his time is past. I could be wrong but 2016 is so over, and many are looking for new faces, certainly younger ones, that are center-left. Biden has the same problem IMHO - too old.
I'd wager that many Dems, myself included, saw Bernie as a spoiler candidate in the 2016 election and resent that deeply given the consequences of Trump's election.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)What happened to us in the electoral college.
Resent all you want.
Btw, he may or may not have lost popularity among potential 2020 Democratic Primary voters, but he is clearly the frontrunner among the early names being mentioned. What's more, moderate purists have already disqualified so many of those early names for daring to move closer to the Bernie wing and/or for tipping the sacred cow.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Everyone knows Bernie is running because Bernie is Bernie.
As time passes, let's see who makes a move. Biden will, but age is a real concern especially among younger voters. But he could win.
I don't think we'll see as much media coverage about Bernie in the 2020 campaign as we did in 2016. There'll be too much competition. And too many Dems who are fed up and want to move on.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Accusing Bernie - any more so than Kamala, Booker, Gillebrand, Biden, or anyone else maintaining a national presence - of running is just more of the unrelenting smear.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Campaign finance laws, and FEC regulations would be kicking in if he was.
No one "is running" until they announce, just as no one stops running until they concede.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Projecting?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You mentioned "moderate purists."
Here it is in case you forgot:
Are you backpedaling on that label now?
Or just avoiding having to define something that's an oxymoron?
stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)Sorry- i'm sick and tired of counting on "miracles" or dynasties to replace the blood, sweat and tears it takes to mount a winning grass-roots populist campaign.
Aside from Campaign Finance Reform, THE single issue I will vote for is Single Payer- Expanded and Improved Medicare For All.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)Ok...well that makes very little sense.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Bernie's economic message resonates... makes perfect sense.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)after this ill advised rally. I just want to win and this is not how you win. Lamb went out door to door...talked to folks ...didn't have big rallies...kept it local.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Bernie in a solid red town. More headlines, more coverage.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Not sure about you.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)I wish Sen. Sanders would go back to the Senate and do whatever he does there...outreach like that we don't need.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Healthcare was the #1 issue for voters, something Bernie's been preachin' for years. Twist all you want, he didn't call Dems weak, but he DID say don't vote for Republicans.
He's perfect for outreach and will wade in anywhere Dems fear to tread. Think about it: East Coast Jewish Socialist Democrat well received in RED Texas! LOL Ah, you go Bernie...
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)choosing way too progressive candidates for red districts unless like in Nebraska a former campaign worker is involved like Jane Kleeb. They primaryed Manchin. Lamb is not a Sanders candidate...and I thank God that Sanders stayed away...we want to localize elections which is another reason I object to his presence in deep red Texas.
A predictable response from the ususal suspects -thankfully it only reflects the attitude of a small minority of our party.
George II
(67,782 posts)KTM
(1,823 posts)I've been a registered Democrat and straight-ticket voter since the day I turned 18, but you go ahead and suggest otherwise and attempt to impugn my character. It may surprise you to hear, but there are millions of loyal Democrats who don't think exactly as you do, and you do our party no service by trying to silence the opinions of others. If you or any other insist on thinking of it as "your" party instead of "ours," then we can look forward to further losses.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)Hardly a minority. Thankfully indeed,
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Hillary had a considerable mandate.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)the Democrat. Hardly a minority. Hardly the usual suspects. I'll proudly stick with the majority.
Speaking of attitude....when denigrating Democrats is considered "ideas" and "issues" then it looks like we know who the minority of the party is. That attitude was rejected.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)"a small minority of our party."
Do you see what you wrote??
You clearly were not just talking about this board, DU. Your own words say you were talking about "our party" so the reading comprehension problem is not with me.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)And he is not a member of 'our' party clearly.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Healthcare was issue #1. The grapes must be VERY sour for our usual suspects.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 12, 2018, 08:20 AM - Edit history (1)
betsuni
(25,713 posts)cancer or not doing enough to cure cancer -- this is the objection. He'll be fine for a while and then he'll slip in a negative comment about Democrats. If Democrats had total power and weren't progressive enough, a fair point, but they don't. A few dozen conservative Democrats in red states don't represent the party. I don't understand the strategy of constant public criticism, many people don't. It's certainly not personal, anyone repeating the idea that Dems ignore the working/middle classes or don't want universal health care or are just like Republicans are getting the side-eye. It would help if people who say this give examples, facts.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and people here would bash her for being "too elite" to bother to swim like the 99%.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)the Democratic party weak ahead of a special election or anytime really? The reason I don't like Sen. Sander anymore is because of what he says...I voted for him in the Ohio primary you know.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)no one is perfect. But, even you would have to concede, in all honesty, that some of the Bernie bashing that goes on here is WAYYY over the top and does FAR more damage to Democratic prospects, in terms of party disunity, than any constructive criticisms given by Bernie.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Grapes must be really sour now that a Dem won in Trump-ville PA, running on an economic platform very similar to Bernie's.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's pretty rich.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and Bernie's wading in to get people to vote for Democrats. What are you doing, besides posting to a message board?
Me.
(35,454 posts)Rallying other states Dems is not his first responsibility...his state of Vermont is. I wonder when he last showed up there. And, aren't you posting on a message board?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You should be thanking him. Vermont is safely blue and if the people of Vermont decide that Bernie has not addressed their needs, they'll boot him out.
Texas is high-profile now, and we need all hands on deck. Again, you should be thanking him if he's inspiring people to register, to vote, to get others to vote, to run for office, etc. I ask again: What are you doing to turn Texas blue?
Me.
(35,454 posts)while disparaging DEms. Very Helpful. And let's see, how many SEnators don't pay attention to their constituents and still get re-elected, it's an old and tired story.
Thank him and OR........I'll thank them to not interfere and find candidates to run under their own Independent banner. Because, as we know they threaten from time to time to vote for Republicans and tell us how nice we should be to Comrade Trump voters.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)How much more clear does he need to be?
Stating that the Democratic Party has not done enough for the working people of this country is fact. You think those MASSIVE losses in recent years just happened on their own? Dems only fully controlling six states - an historic low - happened without reason?
Don't bash the person who's trying to get folks to vote for Dems. It's stupid. Truly.
He said..."Sanders said progressives havent made their message clear enough in rural America" ...it's as counter-productive as calling people stupid.
Secondly...'It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution'...You know OR...the people who said they'd consider voting for Republicans and who make a point of kicking Dems around.
But go ahead and kid yourself all you want.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and you fell for it.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Sad
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And Morocco. And Tunisia.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)of Russian troll farms is the exact opposite of reality. Hillary was the victim.
If you are concerned about desperation, you might want to review the facts. Ive been seeing this tactic starting, so I thought I would mention it. That info is all over the news readily available. The Russians helped Trump and Bernie to harm Hillary.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)once Hillary was out of the picture. It's all about sowing discord.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)the GOP. I see that aspect is only accepted when it helps Bernie's image, but not so much understood if it is about Hillary/Democrats. Very self-serving there, but not unexpected. Divisiveness in Texas is still divisiveness.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)one doesn't need to be a Democratic Socialist to get support in deep red districts.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Healthcare was #1, something Bernie's been preachin' for years. And Lamb distanced himself from Pelosi. We need new leadership, especially since so many seats were lost on her long watch. New blood.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Did I miss that? Maybe they didn't want to draw attention to any pro-gun voting record - and I can certainly understand why.
Lambs economic platform was Democratic. Bernie didn't invent that.
And when did Nancy become the Chair of the DCCC?
Because all of the sudden, when it's Nancy, you seem to think the job of the DCCC is the Speaker and/or the minority leader.
Not so much when it was Harry Reid, Dick Gephart or Tip O'Neill. Can't imagine what's different about Nancy.
And what qualifies as "new blood?" Can you specify? Anyone other than Nancy? Or just anyone with less experience and skill?
What do you know that her colleagues who keep electing her don't?
George II
(67,782 posts)...the Democrats that he's trying to get them to vote for haven't done enough.
Where's the logic in that?
In other words, "they're not doing enough for you but vote for them anyway!"
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)However, WE are going to fix it. Republicans suck and will hurt you -- millions w/o health insurance, no Medicaid expansion, voting to repeal the ACA -- don't vote for them. Too many have dropped out of the political process, but let's get them re-engaged. VOTE for Democrats, and bring people with you to the polls.
What a nerve.
George II
(67,782 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Turnout is abysmal. Bernie's trying to change that.
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)There were a lot of those last go around. They sat out the election/ voted third party in a huff.
George II
(67,782 posts)....haven't done enough to help them, you think they'll vote for Democrats this time around?
Not likely.
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)Why would they? They were just told Democrats did little for them. Really not a way to rally support IMHO.
Seems the DNC Outreach Coordinator has his pronouns confused.
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)...
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because Hillary got more votes than anyone but Obama in 2008.
Also, have you heard about voter suppression of Democrats?
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/12/the-real-voting-scandal-of-2016
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2016/11/11/292322/voter-suppression-laws-cost-americans-their-voices-at-the-polls/
I hope that clarfies some things for you.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Even though it was supposedly a "record number."
And I just stumbled upon this:
Black voter turnout fell in 2016, even as a record number of Americans cast ballots
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/
What impact did that have on results in PA, MI, and WI -- three states we traditionally carried and whose electoral votes we desperately needed.
And don't get me started on mid-terms turnout - under 40% in 2014?!
And I hope that clarifies some things for YOU.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Especially in PA, MI and WI.
Where we lost by a sliver.
But that doesn't support your narrative.
Gotcha.
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)125. The logic is yeah, there's a problem, maybe they haven't done enough for working people.
However, WE are going to fix it.
I am curious who the 'We' are as well, George. The other question is who are 'They'?
They haven't done well....and We will fix it. I thought we were all Democrats here, what is with the They and We stuff. Makes it sound like we are two different parties.
I am a Democrat.
betsuni
(25,713 posts)"They" are Democrats too obsessed with identity politics to have an economic message. "We" have an identity-free economic message that white voters will hear and see the error of their ways and vote for us. Easy!
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)Makes it easier when we need to pursue more than one issue at a time. People have to do that every dayum day.
I am, like many, not a single issue voter.
Hey
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Care to clarify?
I won't hold my breath, because you clearly don't have the courage to.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)Not sure if you know it but Bernie is The Chairman of Democratic Outreach
This is from the official page of The Senate Democratic Leadership
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,995 posts)you'd be complaining that he wasn't doing enough, right?
George II
(67,782 posts)...he'd do nothing.
Not many more than 1/3 of the candidates that he and his organization endorsed have won. As the saying goes, "with friends like that........."
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)http://www.bbc.com/news/43355674
No one said it was going to be easy. And how are you contributing to Democratic victories? Trashing Bernie Sanders on a message board doesn't count.
George II
(67,782 posts)Here's a quick summary from THEIR OWN website:
2018 - 1 win, 4 losses, 20% ("advancing to a run-off" doesn't count, that's not a win, and OR doesn't even count them)
2017 - 44 wins, 69 losses, 38%
Now, what am I contributing to Democratic victories? Hmmm, where do I start?
I've run for office six times, won four times
I've been an officer of our local Democratic Committee since 2005
I've been a delegate to our State Convention five times, and our Congressman's convention three times, and countless other local conventions
I've been campaign treasurer for five Mayoral campaigns, Party treasurer for ten years, and deputy treasurer for two of our State Senator's campaigns
Not to mention the thousands of phone calls I've made and doors I've knocked on.
You?
mountain grammy
(26,661 posts)It's disgusting and way over the top. I think they hate that he's still so popular. How silly and petty that is.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and they're trying to diminish it. The grapes are even more sour. Healthcare was the #1 issue for SW PA voters. They can trash all they want, but it is what it is.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)mountain grammy
(26,661 posts)boy, talk about Bernie Sanderss derangement syndrome.. it's here and it's strong. He gets 1000 people in Lubbock Tx. Fills the hall to standing room only. But goodness, let's ignore those people. Let's put them down, belittle them. I don't understand the hate here. Isn't there enough hate from the KGOP?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Can you provide some backup for that accusation?
George II
(67,782 posts)That is what gets so many people upset. It seems that in every address he makes he has to take a few swipes at the Democratic Party and Democrats.
To me that's not the way to encourage Democrats to get out and vote for Democratic candidates?
George II
(67,782 posts)...wasn't doing enough for the working people!
From his speech - "I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country"
So how are comments like that going to get people out to vote for Democrats?
BTW, it's wasn't even a Democratic Party rally, it was an Our Revolution rally.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)A growing number of people in the US realize that Bernie is not the answer. His politics are too far left to win the support of the center and center-left Dems and moderate Republicans. His message continues to be free health care for all, free college for all, etc., with no workable explanation of how we are going to pay for this. Obamacare failed in Vermont for this very same reason - it was too expensive and the state essentially could not pay for it.
Dems are also very, very tired of Bernie criticizing the party when we all know that 1) Bernie is running in 2020; 2) Bernie will run as a Dem only to get the party's benefits; and 3) they will not vote for someone who grabs the party's resources but refuses to join the party that he wants to lead. The resentment is huge and many Dems are mad as heck about this.
Dems also realize the if Bernie runs, it will split the party to some degree and the media will run with divisiveness 24/7. Such will decrease turnout because who wants to vote for a party that can't get its act together?
Dems also know that defeating Trump is far more important than any of Bernie's issues. We must defeat Trump first. Only then can we begin to work on passing a full-fledged healthcare solution and strengthen Medicare and Medicaid.
Lastly, Bernie is very, very old. Too old to withstand the demands and stress of the presidency. So is Biden. IMHO, anyone over 70 has no business in the Oval Office.
So my prediction is that Bernie will damage Dem's chances in 2020 but hopefully the damage will be limited.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Candidates love Texas. Even if Progressive Democrats only love to hate the state, apparently their candidates know its a political monetary milk cow. Which it is. Which is why they milk it every damn year. Even while their purist supporters denigrate the Democrats who reside there.
Bernie is obviously raising money here. Anyone who knows the dynamics of the state politics, which I and apparently Bernie do, despite his pretending not to get how the state works does, realizes that.
Trashing Dems in Texas can be more than a little lucrative. Ask any non Democratic politician whose used the method. Of which we have an extensively long history. Especially of spoiler third party candidates. Were dumbass central for that crap. You can pull the politically ignorant and the third party sympathizers out of the wood work here with that stuff! Ask Kinky Friedman, thats how he made sure we ended up with Bush as governor. Oh, and Perry, too. We love us some extreme third party spoilers here in Texas. Except the majority of Dems dont vote for them, they just fractured the vote and make a lot of money here.
G_j
(40,372 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And from what I heard here on DU, there was outrage that DNC was "throwing Bernie a bone" with a "token position" which was essentially talking to white people about supporting the Democratic party.
I guess that it's different now.
George II
(67,782 posts)Those duties have very little to do with anything outside of the Capital Building and Senate Office Building. It certainly doesn't entail traveling around the country and holding rallies under the auspices of the Democratic Party, much less Our Revolution.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Hes not doing Democratic Party outreach, he is campaigning for himself.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)while ignoring tough races in red and purple areas around the country -- then some people here would be bashing him for that.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....seems like a waste of time and resources when there are so many other places that are very close and could be flipped.
You really 20% are going to be flipped in Lubbock?
http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/TX/Lubbock/64162/183696/Web01/en/summary.html
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Stop trying to depress Democratic turnout. Seats are flipping. Be positive and work toward Democratic victories (even in deep red-ville) or get out of the way.
George II
(67,782 posts)Although 20 Democratic Senators endorsed Doug Jones, Sanders didn't endorse him. Surely you're not implying that he deserves credit for Doug Jones' victory.
Me depressing Democratic turnout? I didn't go to Lubbock Texas and all but say that Democrats aren't doing a good job for the working people there. THAT is the type of thing that depresses Democratic turnout.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)But what I am saying is that we need to be firing on ALL cylinders. And Sanders' message has tremendous appeal, contrary to what a handful of DUers believe.
He said Democrats haven't done ENOUGH for working people. If Democrats HAD done enough, we wouldn't be looking at MASSIVE losses and historically low control of state governments and governorships. People need to snap out of denial, acknowledge the problems, and fix them.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Whatever Bernie does, he'll come in for criticism on this board.
In Lubbock, he was appearing for several candidates. One was a Democrat running for Congress against a Republican who didn't even have a Democratic opponent in 2016. If the race does nothing other than "show the flag" (because the Republican is re-elected handily), I think there's value in contesting every seat. It follows that the intrepid candidates who run in such districts should be encouraged and supported. If you think we should instead hang those staunch Democrats out to dry, well, you're entitled to your opinion.
Bernie was also there to support Democratic candidates in various downticket races. I don't have time to research answers to every anti-Bernie post on DU, even if I thought that the authors were open to persuasion. Therefore, I don't know what the composition of the various other districts is. I'll just note that those Democrats probably aren't all running county-wide, so your data for Lubbock County voting don't resolve the question. There are Democratic elected officials in Texas, just as there are Republicans in California.
My final comment is that numerous elections since Trump's inauguration have shown impressively large swings toward the Democrats. Some bright red districts have been flipped. That doesn't prove that we can flip every bright red district, but we'll never know unless we try.
ETA: Yeah, I know I said "final comment" and I know I should've left it at that, but I'll add one more point, for any who have ears to hear. The article linked in the OP reports that, the day before Bernie's Lubbock rally, he did events in Austin and San Antonio. He left Lubbock to fly on to a rally in Phoenix. If his level of activity on behalf of Democratic candidates doesn't meet your standards, I guess he'll just have to live with your disapproval.
George II
(67,782 posts)...and it also would be nice if they didn't solicit contributions to Our Revolution at these rallies.
I'm not going to research it either, but were the Austin and San Antonio rallies, and the upcoming Phoenix rally, Our Revolution rallies?
I know that Democrats have flipped a number of red/purple seats to blue, but not many of them were seats won by candidates endorsed by Sanders/Our Revolution.
They have had a dismal success rate over the last year or so.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)strawman argument - you can do better than this at trying to equate any criticism of BS with being about trivial unimportant things.
It's who he's actually rallying for that's at issue.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)that organization with the blue wave there in Texas when all reports are that the blue wave is comprised of just plain, old-fashioned good Democrats, same as it ever was. It is all very coincidentally self-serving, it looks like.
TexasTowelie
(112,534 posts)The event in San Antonio was at Trinity University and was a fundraiser for Our Revolution. I can't verify whether the event in Phoenix was a fundraiser, but Nina Turner also spoke.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I suggest you send a stiffly worded letter to the state party, explaining all of Bernie's many defects, as expounded at great length on DU, and demanding that they remove him from their listing of "Federal Officials" on their website.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)As for Sanders and Vermont...that would be Vermont's business. Why should I care?
George II
(67,782 posts)...is only half-blue. Only two of the four candidates are Democrats.
sheshe2
(83,974 posts)Taking a state color for granted is a mistake and that is why so many yawn and do not vote. Trust me, I know. I am from MA and we keep electing fugging GOP GOVERNORS!!!
So do not tell me a blue state is safe. Nothing is safe, especially now.
Champion Jack
(5,378 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)for Democratic Part Outreach appointed by the Minority Leader Chuck Schumer?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and it ain't because of one Bernard Sanders. Do posters on this board not understand that Democrats fully control only SIX states? The Lubbock attendees praised Sanders for wading into deep red territory and trying to get folks to vote for Democrats. How curious the same isn't happening on a supposedly progressive message board.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Let's see Nancy Pelosi do that. SW PA swung big to Dems with healthcare the #1 issue -- exactly what Bernie's been preachin' for years. Told yinz so.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)need to stand up for working people.. said.in a deep red state...I repeat NOT HELPFUL.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I'm assuming you're talking about the House and Senate.
George II
(67,782 posts)Cha
(297,833 posts)Party in Lubbock, Texas.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said.
Democratic outreach.. right.
Telling us to respect these people..
Link to tweet
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I have to chuckle at all those who are pretending that he's not bashing Democrats a-gain. Even more amusing is how they also try to claim that calling-out the bashing is supposed to be an "attack".
❤️
Cha
(297,833 posts)that..
An "attack" on the "Democratic Outreach" guy? Is that his title.. ROFL
❤️ Good to see you, kiddo!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I don't see it.
Orwellian.
KPN
(15,668 posts)to hear him speak. Disconnect?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)KTM
(1,823 posts)Did you enjoy the lulz ?
Yeah, that's it.
George II
(67,782 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)Of course they did. Listen, Sanders made appearances. Those appearances turned into appearances with huge attendance. Many if not of those who attended those appearances voted for our nominee in the GE. Don't knock organic growth -- it's a good thing when the messages that inspire it are positive, good messages.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)good messages of her own. We don't need to frame everything in relation to what Sanders gave her. She won by millions in each election despite the negative attacks on her. She was attacked from all directions, and she still won. That is a good, positive message.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)I saw a year where we lost a very important election and the Russians interfered in the election , tricked some on our side and may have stolen the election outright...I see nothing good...just fights and division coming out of 16....we need to put it behind us.
KPN
(15,668 posts)hit pieces on Senator Sanders, the Senate Democrats Committee Chair for Outreach, wheever an article is published about him.
Move on.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)He has made it clear that he is calculating of which Democrats he supports, so lets not be told to stifle just because he uses an outreach title to promote his Revolution.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's a "hit piece?"
KPN
(15,668 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....are in Washington, DC, not in Texas or Arizona.
You don't know what that job entails, do you?
Response to George II (Reply #418)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Or is that speculation?
Response to KPN (Reply #408)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sounds like it was speculation, then.
Got it.
FYI -
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence
KPN
(15,668 posts)who voted for Sanders in the primary but voted Trump or Stein in the GE. I haven't heard anyone say they've done that, here or anywhere else? I don't even know anyone personally who chose not to vote in the GE after casting their ballot for Sanders in the primary.
On the other hand, I hear the opposite speculation being made here about Sanders' supporters routinely. Where's the evidence? It's not deflection, it's asking a logical question.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You should ask the poster you see making such speculation.
KPN
(15,668 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Glad you clarified that with your follow up. Sort of.
I still can't speak for anyone else, and don't know which posts you saw this speculation posited.
KPN
(15,668 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)
stated that about and basically blamed Sanders' supporters/millennials for the outcome.
Listen, pressure is an essential ingredient in influencing policy, even when progressive friendly politicians are in office. Ultimately, that's what Senator Sanders is doing. He's applying pressure and inspiring others to apply pressure. In my mind, that's a good thing. We just need to do two things: GOTV (apply pressure back on all those Sanders' supporters to vote D) and then -- as a party -- follow through once we are in office. We can do those things.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That is the question that many people ask themselves when choosing to vote for a candidate.
KPN
(15,668 posts)successfully shepherded into law. Amendments? How well the legislator represented his/her constituency via votes on bills? I would say that Sanders has been less than stellar at bills passed as a Senator (not that he hasn't had some significant success in this regard or that other powerful and influential Senators have also been less than stellar in this regard -- Harry Reid a notable example as I recall) whereas he kind of excelled in getting amendments enacted to advance progressive goals as a Congressman. So ... a mixed record on that metric. On the representing his constituency (the people who voted him into office) in his voting record, I am guessing he scores very high. If raising progressive issues and views in the Senate/Congress is important, while not a direct "result", he'd probably rate very high there as well.
That's the best and most honest I can provide without a lot of research, tallying and comparing.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)
A very long one. Amendments are something that is done after the work of creating the legislation - the drafting, discussion, the compromising, the cooperating and the writing by the committee is finished. Adding amendments at the end of the legislative process doesn't require teamwork skill or hours of contributing to the process of creating the bill.
Of course, there is Sierra Blanca as a legislative achievement for Bernie. He was quite motivated to be involved in that piece legislation from start to finish, clearly.
He has a small, very homogeneous constituency. His record is fine for them.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)We obviously have different perspectives and biases about Senator Sanders generally.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)Some, many here see him doing that.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)wave and have his face associated with what others have done. Trying to make false associations about the Revolution. Opportunistic.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)I have no idea what his purpose is but growing interest in the party is not it.
KPN
(15,668 posts)in the GE who hadn't voted before -- because of having heard Bernie. And voted for Hillary. I also know people like myself who voted Sanders in the primary, Hillary in the GE. I believe some would not have voted in the GE had Sanders' not influenced the "most progressive platform ever" as many have called it here at DU. He had a huge positive effect in my view and continues to inspire people to get engaged in the political process. Given the issues and positions that inspire them, I think that's a good thing. ... We need to develop a thicker skin when it comes to people pointing out places where we should do better. That will win us votes and elections.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)was better. Her achievements don't need to be denigrated or framed as something to do with Bernie or anyone. She actually achieved more votes in spite of it all, not because of it.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)And the platform is completely meaningless...because we lost. And who cares if it is a 12 or 15 minimum (although Hillary attacked on this issue). We didn't get shit because again we lost. I believe the criticisms of Hillary and the Democratic Party led to our loss in 16 and Sen. Sanders should stop just stop...he isn't helping.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)tolerate dissent from a particular manifesto.
That turns a lot of people off - which is the opposite of "inspiring."
I'm more inspired and interested by actions and acheivements than words, and so are a whole lot of other people at this point in history.
I can find inspiring words and ideas from lots of places, including my own friends. Actual legislative accomplishments, only one place.
KPN
(15,668 posts)notion that voting and voting Dem is absolutely a must. I don't see Senator Sanders' actions as impediments to that in any way, rather I see them as promoting that. We have two different views of the same picture.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That is such a convincing way to start out a statement that we have two valid but different points of view of the same thing.
KPN
(15,668 posts)See what I did there?
KPN
(15,668 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)with many here on DU.
KPN
(15,668 posts)a pissing match.
stonecutter357
(12,698 posts)SO damn counterproductive! If enough people splinter off from the Dems, we stand NO chance of retaking Congress this fall!!!! And frankly, it screws over any hopes HE has of seeing anything on his political wish list enacted!
Shit - doesnt anybody get that????
Cha
(297,833 posts)We have the Democratic Party working hard to retake seats in Congress.. and along comes BS with his constant negativity about the Democratic Party..
And, telling us to respect these people..
Link to tweet
mcar
(42,424 posts)This could depress turnout in November. Doesn't he know what we're up against?
Cha
(297,833 posts)the Democratic Party does Nothing to suppress a Blue Tsunami!
catbyte
mcar
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)mcar
(42,424 posts)His supporters are always saying liberals and progressives need to be united, not divided. Well, who's doing the dividing?
Cha
(297,833 posts)who's doing the dividing.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Many of them voted for Bernie in the primaries (including my wife).
They are not thrilled with Bernie's inability to grasp the nature of the conflict we are engaged in.
Bernie isn;t going to change. This is who he is. He's not really interested in governing so much as being a gadfly with a fan base. I'm beginning to think his narcissism is stronger than his "progressivism." I remain DEEPLY bothered by his assertions that Democrats do not advocate for "working people," which begins to look more and more like he means "poor white people." I do not object to reaching out to poor whites, but he (and we) must ALWAYS remember that they have been co-opted by racism. They are voting against their economic interests because they have been conditioned to believe that people different from them (and poorer than them) are to blame for their problems. Bernie NEVER addresses that.
Bernie is like Trump in many ways , he just wants to get in front a bunch of people and run the democratic party, fuck that sob
George II
(67,782 posts)When he talks about "wealth inequality" he only speaks in general, never (or very rarely) specifically addresses the income or wealth inequality between blacks and whites, or between women and men.
And he is never, ever, ever specific on HOW he intends to do what "we have to xxxxx". I guess he thinks all he has to do is identify his issues, and leave it up to everyone else to actually solve the problems.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 11, 2018, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)
His message appeals to that demographic, as one would expect in order for him to be elected by that small population.
He's lived there most of his life, since his twenties, so it makes sense.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Where the Ewells, and the jury, condemn Tom Robinson because he, a black man, felt sorry for them or at least for the sad plight a white woman.?
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)was the conclusion I also came to, back in the fall of 2015. I had the advantage of exposure to, being part of, a whole group with the "Sanders problem" back in the 1960s. So even though like you I initially looked at him hopefully, I very quickly started picking up alarming signs of the same problems that sank them long ago. And reading about his history killed the rest of any hopes. You called it -- Gadfly with grandiose delusions, propped up trump-style by massive delusional contempt for the can-doers who've always achieved around and despite him.
I tend to wish, in hindsight, that we did not allow one to run as a Democrat, just to keep the allies-foes thing clearer for voters in general. But our leadership was -- and is still -- hoping that holding this one close will keep him from turning into a Nader or Stein. Only partially worked in 2016, but at least we "only" lost by an incredibly thin margin.
And it is a problem.
George II
(67,782 posts)mcar
(42,424 posts)He couldn't possibly appear under that mantle and rally for something else. Could he?
George II
(67,782 posts)mcar
(42,424 posts)That is what is important in 2018. Nothing else matters.
TexasTowelie
(112,534 posts)but they did ask for a $5 donation to Our Revolution. I don't know whether they tried to register any voters, raise funds for the individual candidates, or the Democratic Party.
Cha
(297,833 posts)is something everyone in the Democratic Party is interested in.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)asking people to vote for Democrats. You have a warped sense of what might depress turnout...
mcar
(42,424 posts)Could depress turnout. We've seen it before.
But that's just my "warped sense."
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)How much more clear does he need to be?
He's also saying that the Democratic Party "has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country - were trying to change that." Considering the MASSIVE Democratic losses over recent years, voters have pretty much figured that out on their own. Many feel abandoned by the party and have decided to give Republicans a chance. Bernie is trying to bring them back.
Voter turnout in this country is abysmal. Per Sanders, "Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process. Why would anyone on a political message board trash someone who is trying to get people to vote?
mcar
(42,424 posts)"I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country we're trying to change that, Sanders said. Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
How much clearer does he need to be?
Voter turnout is abysmal. Telling people Democrats are doing a bad job isn't going to inspire people to vote. I'd like to see him be more positive, instead of talking about how bad he thinks Dems are.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)My objection is to his utter bullshit assertion that the Democratic Party hasn't been advancing the interests of working people. That's complete nonsense.
What Sanders needs to be telling these people is that the Republicans have played them. That they have appealed to fear and have sought to drive wedges between Americans by encouraging them to blame their woes on minorities, immigrants, and even gay people. That they need to understand they've been played and reject the divisive Republican message.
But I don't believe Sanders has it in him. This is who he is. This is ALL he is.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)and gave clear examples as to why. He also stated that the Democratic Party HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH to help working class Americans. On that, I agree. And considering Democrats fully control only SIX states, other voters have too. He's trying to bring those folks back to the party. You may not feel he's doing enough, but people do want to hear him (over 1,000 in freakin' Lubbock, Texas is impressive). Who else in the Democratic Party is holding these kind of rallies?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)and neither does Sanders. People aren't voting fo Republicans because Democrats aren't progressive enough. They are voting for them because they are being deluged by right wing propaganda. And Bernie's rallies will do NOtHING to reverse that.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)But there will always be a crazy 30%, as we saw with Dubya and now with Drumpf. It's the others who can be reached, those harmed by bad Republican economic policy. Bernie touched on this at the rally: millions without health insurance, not expanding Medicaid, voting to end the ACA, etc.
Jesus, you're so negative. You have no idea what Bernie's rallies will or won't do, but it's worth a shot. We need all the help we can get, especially considering the MASSIVE Democratic losses in recent years. If he can inspire someone -- anyone -- to actually vote for Democrats, bra-vo! Every vote matters, as we saw in the tied Simonds v. Yancey race in Virginia.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I'm not the one in Rexas saying the Democrats aren't very good. That's not a winning message.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And like a mature adult, he acknowledged the Democratic Party hasn't done enough for working people and that WE are going to fix it.
Again, if the Democratic Party HAD done enough for working people, maybe we wouldn't be looking at massive losses and control of a measly six states.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,435 posts)I don't hear the criticism. I hear Sanders advancing the opportunity for the Dems to continue to hone their message so that it appeals to the people who most desire a change in their own circumstances. Sanders is using the rhetoric of urgency, he should, and we all should listen. Texas residents must know that it's the Dems who are listening to their plight, not the GOP. That's Sanders' message, and it's okay by me.
mcar
(42,424 posts)Since he's the Outreach Chair of the party, he should be reaching out on behalf of the party instead of publicly running it down.
"The Democratic Party has let you down" sure doesn't say "vote for Democrats" to me.
KPN
(15,668 posts)Democratic when they haven't in the past due to disillusion. "We're going to continue to provide for more of the same when it comes to people vs money" sure isn't going to persuade many. What's the message? How do you patch a soured relationship without taking some ownership in what's behind the souring?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)to expand the Democratic Party voter block and turnout by talking about what is important to average people -- a government that does a better job of representing and meeting the needs of people before corporations and money.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)KPN
(15,668 posts)has never stood up. What I hear is the party has not been strong enough in standing up to monied interests and can do a better job of that. That's quite different than doesn't stand up for ... I have no heartburn with that message.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)TV when he speaks...honestly, he is not a Democrat and is constantly divisive...I can't deal with it anymore.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)But the criticism in this case is valid.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)And the fact he was appearing at an our revolution rally seals the deal for me.He called our party weak too...well I am sure Nina loved that. I can't stand our revolution which supports Greens and Republicans but makes Democrats prove they are worthy of support. I am just done...voted for Bernie in 16, now I will turn off the TV when he comes on...I have no further interest.
garybeck
(9,942 posts)believe it or not, there are many people who are democrats but don't just blindly follow whatever the party does. we have minds of our own. we think it is a billion times better than the republican party. but we think the democratic party has some issues too. sometimes Bernie points them out. is that a sin?
bernie energized millions of people last election. many of them voted for hillary.
IMHO, the problem was not bernie. i think he helped hillary more than hurt her. if you are looking for someone to blame, blame the DNC who unfairly favored Hillary and you can also blame the russians who clearly affected the elections in many ways.
blaming bernie is saying "no" to a huge round of young people who are smart and they are tired of politics as usual.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Or so some folks upthread keep trying to fool us into believing anyway.
mcar
(42,424 posts)Doncha know.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)As Yoda would say:
Strange interpretation of the job, he has
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)mcar
(42,424 posts)Telling people Dems are bad, in the same speech where he is decrying Rs as well, gives a both sides do it impression.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)conclusion. It didn't work in 16, and it won't work in 18 or 20.
Response to Donkees (Original post)
Post removed
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)That is his message.
dalton99a
(81,648 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)lying about Democrats. He is actively campaigning against Democrats. Many people have been hearing this since 2015.
mcar
(42,424 posts)Not still trying to bring about the "Revolution?"
Response to dalton99a (Reply #10)
Beartracks This message was self-deleted by its author.
when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said. Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)He couldn't be more clear.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)
Cha
(297,833 posts)of Baloney.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)There is no excuse for this teeing off on Democrats. Attack Republicans instead.
Cha
(297,833 posts)forever.. he's not going to stop.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)He needs Democrats more than they need him.
Cha
(297,833 posts)he's acting like he wants nothing to do with any of us.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)It is very noticeable. He has needed Democrats so very much.
Cha
(297,833 posts)is quite mutual.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)echo chamber.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)candidates...the kids and I all went down and voted together...hubs was working. I became a Hillary supporter and worked for her even before the general as did my kids. The constant criticism of the Democratic Party turned me off. Now I am just done. I don't want to hear anything he has to say.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)Because that is not what he said.
"...when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said. Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)And that he can fix all the problems for us. Thats his message.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)statement. He also thinks as it rings to me, that people should be looking to the democratic party to be the ones to step up and be supported.
It certainly is not that he can fix the problems. That's total bullshit Garr. He thinks he has the diagnosis. That is hardly the same thing. I think he's right about it. If no democrats thought he had a point he would not be relevant today. Some of us do.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)at his word. He definitely maligns Democrats and it sounds condescending. This whole trashing is caring angle is not sustainable.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)own failings as we try to call out the GOP on some of the same issues, has not been sustainable.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)of the both-parties-are-the-same fable. It is a contrived and twice losing narrative. See Nader.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)then they are insulting you. Trashing is not caring. Trashing is trashing.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)for and pretend that the Democratic party has not dragged its feet on them while simultaneously taking it to the Republicans on these same issues. That would make him look like a total shill.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)How about $25.00/hr?! Is he against that? That is just a reference to how vapid it sounds to be for or against something with no frame of reference, false equivalencies or any other lack of consideration to practicalities, i.e., reality.
Being for things is the fun part. Like the test drive is always fun. The contract:financing part isnt the fun part, but it has to be done. Someone has to bring it to that level of practicality. Like Randi Rhodes says, you can look at the Mercedes, but youre not going to drive it home. Who doesnt like Mercedes?
JCanete
(5,272 posts)of Sanders advocating for 15 dollars an hour while Clinton was advocating for 12. I don't remember the attack ads or rhetoric about Clinton only advocating for 12. This was a legitimate policy disagreement. But absolutely Sanders, went further on every issue, which is what you need to do if you want to even get a compromise that looks like what Clinton was advocating for. And his proposals were hardly into the realm of fantasy. 15 dollars an hour, I don't care what part of the country you are from, is not unreasonable. Huge corporations have huge workforces at the minimum level of pay, which means if they put that money into the pockets of these locals they would have spending money and that would be good for the local economies.
Now if that makes those companies decide to pull out of an area because it isn't worth it, that simply opens the door for the small businesses to provide services that were killed off by these huge businesses. And yes, transitions can be painful...but these big corps are killing these little towns now, and then eventually shutting their doors when they've milked the communities dry.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)Quit making this about the primary. His message is:was immediate gratification without any consideration to process. That is simply not believable and not sustainable to reject the reality of how our government works.
Now incrementalism is okay after all, but most are left with nothing. All or nothing usually results in nothing.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)What do you have to scare republicans with? You already made the worst case scenario the point of compromise? So why on earth should they?
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)Anyone can have lofty fun ideas and lead people on that they are being deprived. He is saying Democrats are not delivering and he is going to fix it. Yet he is now okay with incrementalism. Huh.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)referring to specifically. Also, I disagree that he is saying he can fix anything. He is saying a collective "we" can. If you can find any quote where he says "I can fix it myself" I'd certainly love to see it. Otherwise, you are putting words in his mouth.
As to whether or not Democrats have delivered in the past, we have a troubled track record and we can't afford to have that. The nation cannot afford it at this point. The world can't afford it at this point. Some costs are permanent. If our track record has blemishes because that has simply been us responding to political realities and staying relevant, well I can understand the strategy as pragmatic to an extent, but its time we start questioning whether it has actually been pragmatic. Instead of moving the boundaries of those political realities left, we've often run to them as they have continued to move right. Republicans have not shied away from shaping public sentiment rather than running to it. And they've been winning.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)That is a group in his image, so its quite a stretch now to say that they are responsible for his message when it is the other way around. He is the figurehead, and he is responsible for their messsge. You are the one putting words in his mouth if you now claim the Revolution is not about him or his campaign. Lets stick with reality.
I doubt you are confused about his change in incrementalism.
And remember Nader?? His lies about Democrats split the vote, too.
At least the last part confirms what I said which was a summary of what Bernie said. Like you, he is justifying denigrating Democrats because they need fixing. He is campaigning on fixing Democrats. You keep trying to make excuses for that to pretend it is a good message, but its just another smear.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 12, 2018, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)
that kind of language. He is on message and recognizes that the Republicans are long gone, but that the Dems are who we are looking to step up and do the things that need to be done, but that they have too often not stepped up. He is recognizing dems in these races who he thinks have stepped up on those fronts(or more fairly, who he thinks indicate that they will step up), and should thus be supported.
No, I really have no idea what you're talking about regarding incrementalism, but I suspect that your own impression of about-facism here has more to do with a mangling of what Sanders and we mean by incrementalism when we are frustrated by it, which again, is not about what we can get done when we come to the table with Republicans, but about what we should be able to get done and to promote as democrats...as a party united on these issues who want to actually have something to pressure the GOP with so that they have some incentive to compromise.
That is hardly an attempt to suppress the vote, nor does it even come close to presenting an impression of both parties being the same. Please admit that. Then you can say he's still doing harm, and I can disagree with you, but at least admit that he isn't doing what you clearly have no proof of him doing.
I also don't know what your referring to at the beginning. If Our Revolution was born out of the Sanders run it still doesn't mean that Sanders is unilaterally going to change the Democratic party. It doesn't mean he can alone fix anything. It means that there are a lot of people who agree with him who are going to fight for those things. It means there are a great many democrats who want to fight for those things.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)his message and change it and water it down so much that he is now no longer about Sanders.
That says it all.
Its s good thing you are not a spokesperson like Nina Turner who is very clear that the Revolution is about Sanders message.
The incrementalism was about double standards. You know exactly what went down there with the all-or-nothing promises.
This is getting stupidy repetitive.
Response to R B Garr (Reply #288)
Post removed
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)everything Ive said to the point that your bullshit doesnt even sound like Sanders. The Revolution is about Sanders and his campaign. You dont get to make things up. Reality is what it is.
Your doublespeak is tiresome. Ill interpret whatever the heck I want from what someone says. Ive already directly said exactly what I mean. You are just angry you
cant force your abstract opinions.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)you were right about my own arguments, I would certainly try to reform them. I see you
making false accusations of hypocrisy for shifting from an all or nothing stance that has never existed. You cannot point to an example of it from Sanders. Some of his supporters, maybe. But you claim that is Sanders modus operandi, and it just doesn't bear the barest of scrutiny.
Feel free to interpret what the heck you want, but I wish you'd do it with the actual intent in mind, rather than simply what you want to have heard.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)make this about the primary.
I already said its about the double standards applied to Hillary.* She was demonized over $12/hr, but now he changed his tune. Weve already been through that. Of course there are examples. Two effing years worth. Go Google the subject. Go read the primary forum. Its absurd to have these inane exchanges when reality is completely ignored and distorted.
*actually, this is so far afield now. Bernie was in Texas campaigning for the Revolution and his condescending message about fixing the Democratic party is what I commented on. Trashing Democrats is not helping. Trashing is trashing.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)according to him. Yet, nowhere does he say that. I'd be very surprised if many if any of his supporters believe that.
Show me where it was the 12$ minimum wage in particular that Clinton was demonized over by Sanders. I certainly remember that being a point of disagreement. Is that the same thing?
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)message was not condescending.
If someone said you need fixing and you are out of touch, that is not a good thing. That is a negative thing. It is not a positive statement. Trashing is not caring, trashing is trashing.
Your double speak is tiresome. You know exactly the attacks on Hillarys $12/hr proposal. Quit denying reality. This is beyond absurd.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Shit. Trashing is an entirely subjective measure though, and what you call trashing I might call being honest. So tough love is trashing to you in this context. Is it always? Recognize that if this comes down to whether or not you or I think he's being honest, then that is probably where our future arguments should focus, since we'll get nowhere unless we both agree about what we're debating.
two different questions need to be determined...
is honest criticism automatically trashing
is Sanders criticism fair or honest. Now we aren't going to agree on this second point, I'm almost positive. But if you don't state your terms about whether or not fair and honest criticism is allowable, then we're going to keep going back and forth about trashing versus constructive criticism.
But Sanders didn't say "the democrats have not stood up for you," as you declared.
"The Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that,
What he said is it hasn't STOOD AS STRONG as it should....
what he also said right there in black and white is "WE'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THAT" Not "I'm trying." Not "I'm going to change that."
And he certainly IS NOT saying give up on the Democratic party. He's saying get involved in it and help shape it. He certainly IS NOT saying vote republican. He IS saying give up on them.
No, I absolutely do not know exactly what attacks on Clinton for being in favor of a 12$ minimum wage you are referring to.
Here is Sanders own words on $12 dollars an hour during the debates:
"Now, in fact there is an effort, Patty Murray has introduced legislation for $12 minimum wage, that's good. I introduced legislation for $15 an hour minimum wage, which is better".
Is that trashing a $12 dollar minimum wage?
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)he is trashing Democrats but before you said he wasnt. Its a good thing you arent his spokesman like Nina Turner who distills his message into the derogatory category like we all hear.
Trashing isnt caring. If someone says you need fixing and you are out of touch, that is a derogatory self-serving comment. Those are negative comments. If you had a job reference, and they said you need fixing, that is derogatory. If they said you are out of touch, that is derogatory. That is not a good reference.
Of course you know the slams against Clinton. You just selectively quoted something without links. Your doublespeak is truly a marvel.
Cha
(297,833 posts)you have nothing to offer to the discussion.
It's a dead give away.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)for being way too bombastic and insulting. But thank you very much for your perspective!
Cha
(297,833 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)Cha
(297,833 posts)insulting attack.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)as the saying goes.
And your post illustrates it.
Cha
(297,833 posts)thought it was a good idea to Primary President Obama.. he wanted to fix him.
the Democratic Party has so many wonderful dedicated people working for our Democracy.. we don't a fixer.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)are better, not worse, for having challengers from the left. You have massive illusions about why the democratic party is as progressive as it is. You think it would be so without a vocal left. That's madness. That makes no sense.
Cha
(297,833 posts)though.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When anyone who dismisses that advocacy as "identity politics" is not making us more progressive.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country "
Does he mean that the Democrats were weak? Lazy? Incompetent?
Because it doesn't sure isn't saying we have been effective, strong or competent.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Perhaps work on your reading comprehension...
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)it all. Its not like this is the first time hes done this.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)don't vote for Republicans, and let's get people who have given up on the political process to vote again -- THAT was his message.
I'm happy to see DUers pushing back against the bullshit twisting of his words. Geez, you'd think it's like Democrats controlled more than a measly six states or something. Trash the guy who's in freakin' deep red Texas trying to get people to vote for Democrats -- only on DU.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)doing enough, but hes going to fix it. His undermining message is very clear.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)"We," not "he." You're doubling down the way Drumpf would, and it's bizarre.
Stating that the Democratic Party "has not stood up AS STRONG AS IT SHOULD for the working people of this country" is fact. You think those MASSIVE losses in recent years just happened on their own? Dems only fully controlling six states - an historic low - happened without reason?
You're trashing a guy who is trying to get folks to vote for Dems. Again, bizarre.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)Democrats arent doing enough. Thanks for confirming again. Speaking of trashingquit trashing Democrats.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Click your heels together a few more times and maybe it'll change into "I'm."
Democrats fully control only six states -- an historic low. If that's your idea of "doing enough," perhaps you should step aside while those of us who care about the party attempt to fix it.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)that his Our Revolution group was started for his campaign? That is what he is promoting. His own words.
And the divisiveness looks familiar. Good Democrats told to stifle because we need fixing. LOL, so familiar.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You're in denial if you don't think something needs fixing.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)meddling to point to. The message is all they had, and it failed. So they are hardly the group to propose fixing anything. I notice anything that remotely goes outside the talking points is mocked. Gerrymandering is a huge historical scam by the GOP, but you only blame Democrats. Blaming Democrats is $$$$.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)ultimately fail, and that will be because the resistance to it is strong and the money remains powerful, or it may fail because once its case is truly heard(in a perfect world) by the American people it simply doesn't resonate.
Or it may succceed over time by getting its candidates elected in the primary and then in the GE, or more likely, and the way the left usually influences politics, it may succeed by pulling mainstream candidates to the left on some of these issues. The Sanders phenomenon has already had an impact on what our potential presidential candidates have commited to, in terms of certain policies and in terms of certain campaign finance choices. That is proof in the pudding, that this is how it works. It also succeeded in influencing the Democratic platform and Clinton's own.
Who is pretending gerrymandering isn't a factor? Of fucking course it is and I'm pretty sure progressives are aware of it...
Sanders tweet: Politicians who gerrymander districts to unfairly gain political advantages are undermining our democracy.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)with supporting Democrats. IOW, denigrating Democrats is a huge part of the message, hence his appearances saying he will fix things. He actually needs Democrats more than they need him. There are many great Democrats.
*phone typing errors...
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)I despise our revolution and won't vote for any of their candidates in a primary...that is how much I dislike them and Nina Turner as well. I think they will hurt us not help us and that is their intention. Tear down the Democratic Party is what they want.
George II
(67,782 posts)....he's running for re-election in that state this year.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that"
Yes Sanders, you have believed that for a long time, but you've done precious little to change that. Is there a single specific thing he's done, not said?
Cha
(297,833 posts)that would be so fantastic!
Oh, I'm sorry.. I forgot this was about BS bashing Dems.. this time in Lubbock, Texas.
That's what made me think of Beto.. much more interesting and exciting.
mcar
(42,424 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)in Vermont? Instead opting for criticizing Democrats nationally.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)Which the Democratic Party has apparently not done in "a long time, if ever."
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)... vote and be heard and push back... That's pretty damn inspiring.
I guess the naysayers will see come November if this kind of thing "depresses Democratic turnout" -- if they bother to remember their predictions here.
===========
George II
(67,782 posts)...rallies down there over the last year.
Re-read that sentence in the article, and check out their facebook page and website.
shanny
(6,709 posts)That's great that the Democratic Party has been having rallies: has it been working? Or could they use a boost?
George II
(67,782 posts)Last night's rally wasn't a Democratic rally.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)People on this site seem to be in total denial that Democrats fully control only six states, which is an historic low. La-la-la-la... !
George II
(67,782 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)That's pretty amazing, a BORING county commissioner race brings out a 1,000+ crowd thanks to Bernie (and Jim Hightower).
He was also rallying for those who support Medicare for All, tax reform for the middle class (not obscene giveaways to the wealthy), taking on Big Pharma, increasing the minimum wage, etc.
George II
(67,782 posts)And since it was an Our Revolution rally, I went to the endorsement page on their website. They haven't endorsed him.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You gonna try to convince us that Caraway spoke at an Our Revolution Texas event but wasn't endorsed by Our Revolution Texas?
http://kfyo.com/bernie-sanders-speaks-lubbock-texas-march-2018/
George II
(67,782 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Perhaps the website hasn't been updated, George.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)SW PA swung BIG to a Democratic candidate who ran on an economic message VERY similar to Bernie's.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)Sen. Sanders as helpful in this area. I have no other ax to grind other then I want to those in leadership to support the party and Democrats. He doesn't do that...thus I don't care for him...but he is a Senator and caucuses with us so there is that.
And apparently we shouldn't have rallies or say anything about our policies because that will only inflame the R base, and also there is No Such Thing as constructive criticism.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)napi21
(45,806 posts)Health care, free 2 year college tuition, etc. I don't know about since then because I've not been paying a lot of attention to individual Sentors--Conman's insane ideas and hourly lies consumes all my time.
Bernie isn't saying much about the Dems that we all haven't all said already. I'm happy to hear about his rallies. I wish all our other Senators would be out doing the same. If we're going to mount a BIG BLUE WAVEm we better get it going NOW!
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)He wanted free college with no income restrictions.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)getting people to demand a different level of safety net and government free of collusion really do nothing? If you want to make that argument, I'm willing to have that debate, but until somebody quits skirting that question and actually says, "no, public awareness does nothing and this is why", I wish you'd dial back that particular line of attack.
George II
(67,782 posts)...a different level of programs, too. I've been active in my local Democratic Party for almost 20 years, and also active in the State Democratic Party.
I'm looking for things like voter registration, voter participation, etc. I recall a while back that at his rallies they didn't even set up voter registration tables in the lobby, but they complained that that was a DNC funtion! Wrong.
So, once again, other than the unmeasurable intangibles, what has he done? He's been a legislator for more than 25 years, what legislation has he written and gotten passed that will accomplish things like higher minimum wages, medicare for all, etc. etc.?
He's been talking the talk for years while others have been walking the walk.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)are good done, and some things that are bad done, how do you do the math on that? Do you just count accomplishments whether they set us back or forward? Do you subtract the bad from the good? What's your metric here?
Sanders has had little support from his colleagues on the issues he's been at the forefront of(ahead of the curve on in many cases) for decades. Should a lone voice in the wilderness just shut up, or go along to get along? He has, as a marginal congressperson and Senator, affected policies at the margins. He has withheld his vote when it was needed to get changes made. Why would you expect him to be able to get his agenda through a mostly unsympathetic congress?
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)rather than right. His behavior is odd. Makes me wonder what his goals are. He has been bashing Democrats and begging us to show support for Trump voters.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)I have yet to see anything from him other than bashing. Certainly not constructive. And, what is he constructing? Another Russian win?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)looks familiar, hmm
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I can selectively quote from the article, too:
Sanders ... gave the speech with a few local Democrats running in 2018 standing behind him. Holding signs at the back of the stage were Miguel Levario, running for Texas U.S. House District 19, candidates for County Commissioner T.G. Caraway in Precinct 4 and Nick Harpster in Precinct 2, and Texas House candidates Samantha Fields in District 84 and Ezekiel Barron in District 88.
And then we have the responses from people who were actually there:
Jimmy Moses of Lubbock said he believes half the battle for Democrats is getting voters to actually vote, so people like Sanders coming to speak are significant.
Sanders kind of put the burden on us and said, look, if you want change then bring your friends, bring your family, or bring a few people to the polls, Moses said. The only way were going to change anything is if we go out and vote.
J. Leon Williams, also of Lubbock, commended Sanders for coming to Lubbock. He said Democrats shouldnt be afraid to speak up in conservative districts, and Sanders clearly isnt.
Bernie Sanders is popular among Democrats and remains so, and continues to try and get Democrats and liberals to vote and continues to go where most of the Democratic leadership thinks is a waste of time, talking to Democrats that have basically been ignored for the last two or three decades.
George II
(67,782 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Im not here to tell you that Im an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not, Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. This I do know when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and youve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
There ya go.
Sanders is the perfect person to go somewhere like Lubbock and energize Democrats and liberals. If he keeps telling Democrats to go to the polls, we should probably just shut up and let him.
As one person actually there described it while he was quoting Sanders: Sanders kind of put the burden on us and said, look, if you want change then bring your friends, bring your family, or bring a few people to the polls.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)have appointed themselves the clearinghouse for candidate purity. Typical all-or-nothing tactic that most often ends with nothing.
George II
(67,782 posts)But Our Revolution endorsed candidates are running at about a 35% success rate.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)reason why he needs to riff on Democrats.
TexasTowelie
(112,534 posts)While the rally was free, they asked for $5 donations to "Our Revolution."
George II
(67,782 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)in Texas by associating his face with it and promoting his group. Very opportunistic and superficial move.
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)imploring people to vote for Democrats.
LOL My, how DU has changed.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Cant wait to support him 100% in 2020.
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)R B Garr
(16,998 posts)attacks on her from every angle. Now that is inspirational. Just parroting campaign lines without ever being challenged is not really inspirational.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Mine is Bernie, and I'll be fully supporting him if he chooses to run.
Have a nice day.
R B Garr
(16,998 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)You'll lose again.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,348 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)Thank you, Senator Sanders.
ecstatic
(32,752 posts)I'm not sure if he's capable of absorbing new information or not... from what I've seen, i think not... but he could simply rally on the principles that he thinks the party is lacking without attacking /criticizing the party. Instead, he could mention what the REPUBLICAN party has failed to do. It's not rocket science. Here's what he should have said:
Im not here to tell you that Im an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not, Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. This I do know when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and youve got a REPUBLICAN state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have REPUBLICAN Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
I have believed for a long time that the REPUBLICAN Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said. The democratic party speaks to the needs of working families. We should all take this message to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
betsuni
(25,713 posts)But he doesn't listen. Such a shame, it's not rocket science.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)criticism and insist that we only lost because everyone who didn't vote for us is stupid or worse might consider that their attitude isn't getting us the numbers we need to win in Texas in the first place. Even with the excitement of a contested primary, we had less turnout among all of our candidates combined than f'ing Cruz got running against no one.
Maybe, just maybe, we need to be changing our behavior instead of preaching about how everyone but us needs to change theirs.
Or, we can always do nothing and spend years blaming Bernie.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)That is REALLY depressing, considering it's Ted fucking Cruz we're talking about.
I hope my native PA delivers for Lamb.
Good post, BTW.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)riversedge
(70,362 posts)Link to tweet
Our Revolution
?Verified account @OurRevolution
Starting in 30 minutes: @ninaturner, @SenSanders, and @JimHightower live from Lubbock, Texas 📺 https://www.facebook.com/OurRevolutionTexas/
12:30 PM - 10 Mar 2018
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/politics/article/Sanders-rallies-his-supporters-urging-continued-12742753.php?utm_campaign=fb-premium&utm_source=CMS+Sharing+Button&utm_medium=social
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)"When was the last time any of you drew 1,300 people in Lubbock, Texas - a county Trump won with 67% of the vote?"
Posting on a message board isn't activism. What's everyone doing to actually GOTV?
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,530 posts)And one that leads me to believe PRESIDENT OBAMA must have never visited Lubbock.
Response to Donkees (Original post)
Post removed
lapucelle
(18,368 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)that you're changing the party, you're suppressing the Democratic vote. In case none of you caught it, BUSINESS AS USUAL isn't working for Democrats in Texas.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It isnt about any connection to general election statistics. Sanders is campaigning to win primaries and he needs to do well in these areas.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Raging against the machine.
Sounds like a good strategy for ANY kind of election.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You just described Grayson.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)On how the machine is perceived.
Cha
(297,833 posts)himself, then?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Is Bernie's first instinct is to bash Democrats and treat them as the sole reason for every failure.
Cha
(297,833 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We are the true majority by a large margin. We MUST crush Trump supporters at the polls, we must, for the sake of the country, rip control of government out of their hand in a way that it's clear they will never again influence the direction of government at any level.
MineralMan
(146,339 posts)running against Ted Cruz in Texas, he's not helping. And he's not doing that. So...
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Increasing voter enthusiasm helps win elections.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)Texas Democrats need fired up after decades of failures from the business as usual strategy.
Cha
(297,833 posts)Party, in Lubbock, Texas, of all places.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I won't.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Vote Dems! Yeah, can't bring myself to support the guy who could actually unseat Ted Cruz but yeah total team player, not a self promoter for his own party of one so don't even think that!1!
Response to Donkees (Original post)
Post removed
Cha
(297,833 posts)You think your insults are going to get you anywhere?
We have our opinions on what BS is doing there, and we are discussing them on a political board. Too bad if you don't like it. You're not going shut it down with your personal attacks.
KTM
(1,823 posts)More than 4 out of 10 of our fellow Democrats supported this man and the ideas he represented in the last election and your message to them is a loud and in-your-face "fuck him and fuck you."
Good luck with that.
Cha
(297,833 posts)If the ignorance and "sour grapes" mentality of my fellow Democrats in this thread is representative of Democrats at large, we are fucked in the future"
No one has to fall in lockstep with your thought process. Millions of us have our own vision for our Country and the Planet..
You will not shut us down with your disingenuous attacks.
Millions of US do as well, and your millions and my millions are ostensibly on the same team - but you return here time after time to show off your middle finger to one side of the team specifically for not being in lockstep with you.
Cha
(297,833 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....in the last election"?
Sorry, I didn't realize he was in the last election. Did I miss something?
Cha
(297,833 posts)my mouth
Cha
(297,833 posts)your own advice about "looking in the mirror".
George II
(67,782 posts)Are you dissing people who work diligently WITH their local or state DEMOCRATIC Parties to promote Democrats?
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Do you know even the first thing about Texas politics? Look up Kinky Friedman... hes an Uber leftist Texas spoiler used in multiple elections to break our state.
Texan Uber leftist are fucking dumber than a box of rocks sometimes and want to believe in rainbow unicorns and legal pot for everyone. Its cost us more then one, or two elections to spoiler third party candidates. Its a reality we mainstream Democrats understand here since we fight it every important election cycle.
Bernie is here working the soft minded amongst us. Im not proud of him for exploiting them. This is why we arent yet purple here in Texas. We cannot keep the spoilers from breaking the damn state (and influencing our less than bright, idealistic voters) for their profit!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/kinky-friedman-talks-music-texas-and-a-trump-sanders-ticket-20150922
Sep 23, 2016 - Kinky Friedman performed at Strange Brew in Austin Thursday night, and, after the show, said he preferred Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton for president.
JNS: So whom are you backing in the presidential election?
Kinky Friedman: I dont know. Anybody would be better than what weve got. What weve got is Forrest Gump, and nobody could see it coming because we elected him kind of in an American Idol type of situation. ... And the rest of the politicians of course the only two that I know that are not corrupt that are running for president are [Donald] Trump and Bernie [Sanders]. And I think I support Bernie because I want to see a Jeeeeeeeeeeeeew in the White House. (Editors note: That isnt a typo on Jew. Thats exactly how Kinky said it.) If he wins, itll be the first time a Jewish family ever moved into a place a black family moved out of.
This is depressing because this massively opinionated but fact-free negativism is so common. Obama dismissed as Forrest Gump, the entire Democratic Party dismissed as corrupt in favor of a not-corrupt independent and Donald Trump, the only ones.
I think we're all ODing on this go-low poison.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Hes always out for himself first. Hes foiled Texas elections while he campaigns to sell his most recent book. Every. Damn. Time. And people who wanted to believe his lunacy kept falling for it again and again.
The rhetoric of anger and hate of the establishment by people like him has poisoned political discussion in the minds too many people. Its spread like a virus, replicating and evolving when needed to assure its continued survival and spread. I agree, its toxic.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)their toxic effect on our nation. They are always with us. But the use of technology by those out to destroy our country by might explain why these toxic, de-spiriting messages seem to be everywhere now. They're being multiplied.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Ive been trying to explain this to people since the late 90s to early 00s. Yet look where we are still today.
People want to believe in their version of reality, even if its been manipulated. Once they commit to it, some people cannot ever be forced back into reality. Theyve been Kinky Friedmanded for life.
Theyre just sitting there waiting for the next incarnation to come along and inspire them to break another election.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)from the very beginning to messages of antigovernment contempt and disaffection that serve our nation's enemies, foreign and domestic both. This stuff does not resonate with most people and is rejected.
You're completely right about all of it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. And it's increasing in intensity and prevalence with microtargeting of messages directly to those vulnerable to them.
And look at their product. Like Kinky Friedman, whose attitudes are proudly hostile to 90% of America and our government and traditions. The party of anti-authoritarian liberalism is corrupt (everyone?!). Republicans might be okay after all. But at least he's identified two uncorrupt ones, bonding with one from the nationalist right and one from the more radical left. Huh?
Of course they're both populist leaders whose messages spread their own distrust and disrespect for our mainstream political institutions, plus to Trump's wing vast distrust and dislike of other peoples, and to the left wing a vast intolerance for all who don't agree with them. All messages useful for tearing our nation apart.
And of course those with inborn elevated tendencies to distrust and suspicion are only one useful type. Any group prone to disliking something about our liberal heritage of internal and external cooperation among peoples is vulnerable for turning into active opposition.
I imagine research would turn up a bunch of strategic spoiler candidacies, like this Kinky Friedman's, at all levels. How to purge mainstream values from city councils and school boards.
I wonder how much Hillary and those she spoke with were aware of when she first spoke of a vast right wing conspiracy. Technology facilitating this was already in place, but nothing compared to what's developed since.
Well, it's voting day, and this year Tuesdays are not happy days for these seditionists.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)Thats not what I said at all.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)Second Bernie wasnt there campaigning for anyone.
Run along and try someplace else.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)"Sanders, who did not take questions from the media during his visit, gave the speech with a few local Democrats running in 2018 standing behind him. Holding signs at the back of the stage were Miguel Levario, running for Texas U.S. House District 19, candidates for County Commissioner T.G. Caraway in Precinct 4 and Nick Harpster in Precinct 2, and Texas House candidates Samantha Fields in District 84 and Ezekiel Barron in District 88.
T.G. Caraway, member of Our Revolution Texas, introduced the speakers and the candidates and tied the whole event back to local politics.
You can go "run along now"
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Seriously, get over the fact that you were too late and they were hidden. Ok?
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)If you want to enighten on why I am wrong and why you think Sanders was there promoting 3rd party spoliers, i am open to being educated on the matter.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Never, not once. Just stop youre looking silly. Thats not what the hidden poster was saying. Not even close.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)I ask this because as a Democrat I think I'm missing something here.
What was he milking there ? This was an event promoting Democrats running for office.
Among a slew of progressive talking points he made this statement.
I have believed for a long time that the Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people of this country were trying to change that, Sanders said. Our job is to do two things. Our job is to come up with an agenda, a progressive agenda, that speaks to the needs of working families. Our second task is to take that agenda to our friends and our neighborhoods and our family who have given up on the political process.
What was the issue with this event.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)You keep trying to change your argument just to find a point to argue with me. I just dont play that game.
This conversation is as useless as tits on a bore hog.
Have a great night!
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)Saw that. Mentioned it here. Not seeing your point.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Im going to have to be the adult here.
People like you could make people like me not support people I should. So, Im going to have to stop seeing you. Trust me, its me and not you. Were breaking up because this relationship is toxic for me. I dont want you to think this was about you. We just werent a match.
Ill remember you. 😢
George II
(67,782 posts)"Bernie will be in Lubbock, Texas tomorrow for a rally in support of comprehensive immigration reform, the need for a Medicare for all health care system, and the importance of electing progressives across the country. We hope you can all join us!"
and....
"Bernie Sanders Coming to Lubbock for Our Revolution Texas
U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders is scheduled to speak in Lubbock on March 10 at the Lubbock Memorial Civic Center"
Not a SINGLE word about the Democratic Party, the Democratic candidates, or Democrats in general. Not ONE.
He was there to promote Our Revolution. Period. And if you look through the comments, many of them were not very positive about his being there.
George II
(67,782 posts)....they were soliciting contributions to Our Revolution, not the Democratic Party.
George II
(67,782 posts)First, rather than being held in conjunction with the local Democratic Party, it was an Our Revolution event
Second, generally when "Democratic" events are held the organizers solicit contributions for the Democratic Party. This event solicited contributions for Our Revolution only, not the Democratic Party
Third, you highlighted it above - almost out of the box Sanders began making negative comments about the Democratic Party.
If he was there to encourage people to get out and vote for Democrats, telling them that "Democratic Party has not stood up as strong as it should for the working people" sure isn't the way to do it.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Its obvious the discussion was about the less than bright extremist in Texas who keep VOTING third party and costing us elections here. Im talking about Texas politics... and how folks love to come here and raise money then trash talk us after theyve cashed the check. It had zero to do with Bernie campaigning for anyone. Hell, I didnt know he was since his FB never made mention of it.
Now run along and find some other person to attempt to put words in their mouth because you saw half of a conversation and wanted it to be what you thought.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)clear.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)I mean, seriously... look at what yourre saying. I dont know you, and I dont even know what the username was of the person whose post was hidden.
Youre way too invested in something I dont care about.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)There is was no 3rd Party promotion oif any sort. Sanders was there with Democrats promoting Democrats and a progressive agenda.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Im speaking of Texas politics I have no fucking idea what youre on about.
Creepy. As. Fuck.
George II
(67,782 posts)..the remaining option?
herding cats
(19,569 posts)The admin can see whats in the hidden post and decide the context of my (not hidden) posts.
With that I wish you a goodnight, and I say goodbye to you. I find your style of discourse too volatile and borderline toxic for my personal tastes.
Good bye.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)Because it really has that feel. I dont know you, or the person whose post was hidden. I dont even remember their name except it began with a K. Thats all I got here and youre both so deeply invested in me. Its odd, to say the least.
lol.. omg!
betsuni
(25,713 posts)Cha
(297,833 posts)betsuni! Rofl!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)
Passing notes at recess?
Maybe about what to say to that mean kid who you think got your friend in trouble?
betsuni
(25,713 posts)This is so funny!
LexVegas
(6,120 posts)David__77
(23,559 posts)There are plenty of Democrats not sharing that perspective, including leaders.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)Just curious what actual knowledge you have of the same state Bernie admits to knowing nothing about?
P.S. Its my state and I do actually know it.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)So, do you?
Because if you dont know more than he does, get out of my house. I know here, I live here. Ive done all the hard work and lived the difficult life to try to effect change.
If youre not as invested as I am, the odds are you dont know how things are here. Thats just a fact. All politics are local. But, people still want to grade it on their personal moral compass. Which I kind of understand, but doesnt work in other peoples daily lives.
Everyone else, doesnt necessarily think like you do. Im sorry, I know that sucks, and I agree. Yet, thats still the reality most of us fighting in red states are dealing with.
Its just the facts. I feel like I should apologize to you, but I also feel like you should have already been listening to us here.
Were more alike than we are different. But, there is only so much give we here in the red states can can honestly expect to happen. Reality sucks, but it is what it is.
Were all about wanting to compromise and find common ground in red states. We need our Democratic partners to extend a hand and get us elected so we can have a majority.
Oh, and even then things arent as leftist as wed all like. Reminder: Trump was just elected. Hate has a huge hand in modern politics.
betsuni
(25,713 posts)yardwork
(61,729 posts)I think your point about sour grapes is particularly relevant.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)herding cats
(19,569 posts)It happens every damn election cycle because Texas is a cash cow.
Now, I understand us having to deal with local third party spoilers trying to divide the party. Its a sort of a Texas tradition around these parts, but I have zero intentions on tolerating Bernie Sanders from Vermont coming in here to milk money for his campaign at the expense of decades of work of myself and my peers. Hes never been a part of our politics, and as he says he doesnt understand them. So, shoo! Before you mess things up for those of us who are active here!
At least he stayed in Lubbock and didnt try and infiltrate any of our liberal bastions. But, its obvious he was trying to dip into our money pool. So, typical. Im sick of politicians not knowing were here until they see a dollar sign. 😡
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Maybe he'll support us, but maybe he won't, and maybe he'll require a shrubbery. Every Democrat who wins a seat in the Senate diminishes the value of his brand. It's that simple.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)He is 100% correct about the Democratic Party. They have ignored Texas for too long. Do you think Texas would be as red as it is if the Democrats (national party I mean) not been "keeping their powder dry" and not even trying?
And he is right about trying to engage folks who have given up. THOSE are the reachable ones.
But go on, please bash Bernie some more for doing something national Democrats have been refusing to do.
MuseRider
(34,135 posts)He energized Kansas Democrats last year with several appearances.
Thank goodness the rest of the county is not DU. Here in my red state I have never heard a bad comment about him among the people.
Let the haters hate and know he is making a huge difference. Are there legitimate questions he should answer should he decide to run again for POTUS? Yes. We can cross that if that happens, for now he is doing exactly what the Democrats have needed for a very long time. He is making a difference FOR a party he does not belong to. Hate away. It just makes no sense at all to me.
Go Bernie and thank you.
jalan48
(13,905 posts)bluedigger
(17,087 posts)It was a rally for local Democrats seeking election in 2018, and Our Revolution, a grassroots organization built on continuing the policy messages of U.S. Senator and former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. Our Revolution must truly be taking this message everywhere, because 66 percent of Lubbock County voted for President Donald Trump in 2016. And 66 percent for a Republican candidate in West Texas is on the low side in recent years.
...
Im not here to tell you that Im an expert on Texas, or Texas politics, because I am not, Sanders said after praising the work Our Revolution Texas. This I do know when you have 4.5 million people in this great state who have no health insurance at all, and youve got a state government that does not want to expand Medicaid, when you have Senators who voted to end the Affordable Care Act, people in this state should not be voting Republican.
Sanders did his best to draw comparisons between his home state and West Texas, saying there are working families all over the country trying to make a living despite battling low wages, high healthcare costs, the high cost of prescription drugs and suffocating student loan debt. Sanders lightly said the big differences between the two states are the hats and the weather, as snow is melting in Vermont.
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/20180310/us-sen-sanders-rallies-in-lubbock-of-all-places
It's not that hard to edit without being inflammatory.
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)And don't criticize the Democratic Party. We win.
Mountain Mule
(1,002 posts)Quoting excerpts of a story by some half witted reporter in Lubbock - a quasi journalist pulling out the stops for the amusement of his fellow members of Cult 45.
I'm not interested in giving the deplorables the time of day, never mind quoting their drivel to spur infighting and divisiveness among friends.
We should be celebrating Lamb's win and discussing how we are going to keep up the momentum for the coming midterms. The repugs always sit up in delight and give all sorts of notice to party divides on the opposing side.
Who do you want to win in 2020? Bernie? Hillary? Joe Kennedy III? Czar Trump?
I want the DEMOCRATS to win. The endless infighting around here brings me down on what should be a great day for we Dems - Lamb's amazing victory in PA's red 18th district and our young folk expressing themselves with their protests against the NRA and against the indifference of our elected leaders toward making a change and saving hundreds, if not thousands of lives.
So Bernie held a rally in Lubbock. Good for him! Who else around here did something today to help the Democratic cause? (Quoting a third rate hack for a yellow rag in Lubbock doesn't count).