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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSen. Duckworth will be penalized for taking any maternity leave
She will also be the first senator that U.S. Senate rules will punish for giving birth. If she takes any maternity leave, she will be barred from voting or sponsoring any legislation. And even if she doesn't take leave, she'll likely be forced to miss voting times because her nursing infant will be barred from the Senate floor. Really.
Not only do the rules punish women in an institution with few women to begin with, they take away their ability to vote on legislation that impact women across the country. Imagine the raging debate on gun control right now--Sen. Duckworth's vote could mean the difference between finally strengthening background checks on gun purchases or not.
That's why Sen. Duckworth, who is due next month, is single-handedly trying to change Senate rules to allow new mothers in office to vote on legislation. If the rules don't change in time, Sen. Duckworth's vote will be taken away--in a time when we desperately need women's votes in Congress. Will you join senator Duckworth's call and demand the Senate fix its backward and anti-mother rules?
Petition at link:
https://act.weareultraviolet.org/sign/duckworth_maternity?akid=s588559.._ufzvD
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,386 posts)Leighbythesea
(92 posts)I am calling. I can't believe how backwards this is.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)Cha
(297,503 posts)Thanks, ehrnst
GWC58
(2,678 posts)isnt another female senator pregnant. GOP I believe. Iowa, maybe? If thats the case a rule change, for her (the thugliCon)?
AJT
(5,240 posts)Most women don't nurse where they work at all. Women usually pump and the infants are bottle fed at daycare.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Can you imagine if she was to pump on the Senate floor or in committee meetings?
AJT
(5,240 posts)They aren't at their seats all of the time. There will be plenty of time for her to nurse or pump. If there ends up being a problem she is a strong woman and will deal with it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)rainin
(3,011 posts)Lots of women pump at intervals throughout the day. This is a struggle women cope with every day. I'm all for her working to change the culture for women, but acting like this will interfere with her ability to do her job is just not true.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It doesn't mean that you can't function at work. It means you are taking time to spend time at home more with the baby, as you adjust. Sleep makes things difficult, but not impossible.
The idea that she has to be at the office full time in order to be considered fit to author legislation, because the only reason a man would not be there would be because he is incapacitated shows the folly of that sort of policy.
Yes, she can still be a "strong woman" and need the flexible time in the early days after birth.
Sarah Palin bought into that 'I have to show that I'm a strong woman by being just like one of the men" crap when she showed up to work 4 days after giving birth to a high risk labor for a special needs child.
That shit doesn't need to be perpetuated in the Senate.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)They needed to be physically present to vote. Remember McCain and Kennedy respectively showing up?
As to committee hearings, they have some options. They can watch live coverage of any open hearings and have staffers there. If they were watching and had a question not asked, they could get a message to a staffer and a peer could ask the question. Her office would continue to work for constituents.
As to nursing, she has a private office with a door. She is in a far better situation than most working moms. As to nursing on the floor of the Senate, it doesn't make sense. If you ever visited the Senate, you would know Senators don't often sit there other than right before they speak. They can watch from their office via CSPAN.
Response to AJT (Reply #12)
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Lithos
(26,403 posts)To be honest, this is really a case of providing the necessary respect and space for Sen. Duckworth to focus on her baby. Yes, she could technically do it, but is it really what's best for her and her baby?
What is likely to happen is she'll end up with an abbreviated maternity leave, or a fragmented one, as she makes herself and her vote available during critical legislative junctures. Much like when McCain flew in.
L-
Response to AJT (Reply #12)
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PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,873 posts)meeting is pretty dumb. Women don't do that. They want privacy for the pumping.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)I'm sure a senator can figure out how to work it into her schedule. And the senator has the advantage of not having a manager breathing down her neck tracking her time away from work.
A senator also has the advantage of a private office that most women do not and I imagine no one would object if she brings the baby to her office.
Carrying on like Senator Duckworth is facing insurmountable hardships is insulting to any mom who doesn't have a job with all the perks a senator has.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)She's a US Senator. She can come and go as she sees fit. Why would she "take maternity leave" when all she has to do is not show up?
She's only answerable to her constituents and I'm sure we (I live in IL) won't mind if she misses some votes.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... when she had to go vote because it was closer?
The fact she required surgical delivery of her first daughter does increase the likelihood of having to take a longer leave than some women can. She hired an au pair with Abigail and so I expect she will be open to hiring childcare.
But Senator Duckworth's mobility issues would require making whatever place is chosen as Nursing Senator Space reasonably close to the floor. Even if she has others to watch/carry little one, making mad dashes like G alleged isn't something we should have to expect for anyone, and likely impossible for her.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)She could also use the Democratic Cloalroom.
There are plenty of places.
This article is pure BS, written by someone who either hasnt a clue how the Senate actually works or assumes that no one else does.
moriah
(8,311 posts)That might have shown up in your search about how our many breastfeeding House members have managed, but something in the Senate wing would be more appropriate even for someone without mobility constraints.
Just saying, reasonable accommodation close enough to the floor to allow her to disengage a pump and get in for a vote, whatever that timing is given her mobility restrictions, isn't too much to ask. And again I expect she will do her part to make it work by getting assistance if she needs extra hands, as she did with her first kid.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)There are lots of rooms right off of the Senate floor that she could use. In fact, she probably already has a "hideaway," a private area in the Capitol near the Senate floor, where she works, meets with constituents, etc., between votes. If she doesn't already have one, surely the Capitol Architect will provide one to her on request after he baby is born.
That said, I'm not sure what is the point of this freakout over Senator Duckworth's breastfeeding accommodations. Senator Duckworth is pretty savvy and I have no doubt that she's handling her personal business quite nicely without our assistance. And surely, we have more important things to worry about and advocate for than where a U.S. Senator will breastfeed her baby.
FYI, contrary to your assumption about how I gather my information, I didn't learn about the Lindy Boggs Room from the Google. I'm very familiar with it because, among other things, I've spent a lot of time in that very room myself.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I think the bigger reason it would be a problem -- kids are pretty quiet when they're at it -- is that the stress of debating on the floor going on might interfere with let-down, etc, or make the baby uncomfortable.
It's not like a baby didn't yell at both chambers of Congress recently, and he was allowed over an hour.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)They'd have to make an exception to the Senate rules since, unlike House rules, they don't permit children - or anyone else other than Senators, Senate staff and other specific officials to go on the floor. But the Rules Committee could make an exception for her if necessary.
But there could be some wariness about making an exception. Senate rules regarding the floor are VERY strict. Men and women must wear jackets and business attire. I once saw a Senator asked to leave right after he stepped into the doorway to vote - because he had rushed over from the gym and was still wearing sweats. I can imagine there'd be some concern about setting a precedent regarding babies on the floor. One is no big deal. But as more and more female Senators are likely to have babies, there could be a concern about a bunch of babies in the chamber (besides the ones walking around voting).
BTW, your comment made me laugh out loud.
moriah
(8,311 posts)My issue would be more about the newborn's comfort, trying to nurse peacefully but getting disturbed, as you said, by the adult babies ranting and raving.
Kid would probably rather nurse somewhere quieter, and further away from thrown feces.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Those spaces are limited and are usually given to more senior senators, but given her mobility issues, I'm sure she has one so that she has a place to work in the Capitol near the floor without having to go back and forth to her office several times a day.
"...adult babies,..." "...thrown feces..."
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Nobody in the congregation bats an eye.
If a bunch of aging hippies can stand it, I'd say the members of the self-styled World's Greatest Deliberative Body can endure.
TwistOneUp
(1,020 posts)whathehell
(29,082 posts)Apples and meatloaf.
whathehell
(29,082 posts)even though I hate to interrupt the Mansplaining.
moriah
(8,311 posts)"The New York senator said she would leave Henry and his older brother Theo in former Senator Harry Reid's office, sprint to the Senate floor, vote, and sprint back again, leaving them unattended for just 30 seconds. At the threshold of a door to the Senate floor, she would hold her sons' hands on one side and "lean in [her] head" to vote on the other."
I think the solution after birth during nursing time might involve either a supportive husband or a third party helper. I hope that a Senator choosing assisted reproductive technologies to fulfill their dreams of parenthood has the resources to hire a person to cart kiddo around and supervise between nursing/pumping sessions.
onenote
(42,737 posts)She's not barred from voting or sponsoring legislation because she had a baby and took leave. She'll be barred because if she's not physically present she can't vote or introduce a bill. The same is true of any Senator who, for any reason, cannot be physically present. There was no exception made for Ted Kennedy when he was too ill to vote. There is no exception made for John McCain because he's too ill to vote.
One can question whether, in a modern era, physical presence to cast a vote or introduce a bill should be required, but its not specifically a "maternity leave" issue.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So, yes, this is an issue. And that argument was used to discriminate against women taking maternity leave for decade.
I would LOVE to see her pump on the Senate floor during a vote, just to watch the chest clutching on the part of the conservatives.
marybourg
(12,633 posts)She has a suite of offices in which she can breastfeed or pump. And votes aren't taken within a few minutes, but over an hour or several. It's good to bring attention to a problem, but the problem here is only the same as pertains to any absent Senator, and maybe it's not a real problem at all; maybe it's right that they don't vote if they're absent or sick.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)If she is on leave, then she's barred. If she's not on leave, she's supposed to be there the full day.
Because the only reason a male politician would take leave is because he was incapacitated - there full time or off full time.
There is no space for the postpartum grey area where flexibility and some part time off is needed.
That is the issue.
marybourg
(12,633 posts)She takes some maternity leave, then she pumps or breastfeeds in her office suite. Sponsoring legislation is not something that happens in an instant, unless it's an emergency. There are many indignities that women endure, still. This is not one of them.
onenote
(42,737 posts)The only "bar" is the requirement that a member has to be present on the floor of the Senate to introduce a bill. It can be "authored" anywhere, at any time. But no senator can "mail" in a bill. They have to appear and present it. Male or female.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)She can draft legislation - or, more likely, her staff can draft it (since staffs draftvthe bills anyway). And she can sign on to others bills as a co-sponsor.
Where did you get the notion that she couldnt?
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)I suspect some don't want to change that rule, because they like to be able to get out of a vote that don't want to go on record for.
7962
(11,841 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)A critical part of being a Senator or Representative is the collaboration, deliberation and give-and-take between legislators. Without it, the legislative process might as well be conducted by computer.
And thats what would happen if legislators were allowed to vote remotely. Too many woluld never 8nteracy again, but would instead just phone it inform the road. Physical presence is absolutely essentially the process.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)For example "phoning in" a vote might only be permissible if the representative had been present and participated in the debate of the bill. Or someone may only be permitted to do this on a limited basis, i.e. no more than X times per year. There's probably no perfect solution, so the question would be, what set of rules ultimately best serves the people. But as "virtual presences" expand in the decades to come, I expect we will ultimately want to revisit this, no matter which side of the argument you are on.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Not going to happen.
And, in my view, it shouldn't. The Senators and Members need to be together in Washington when they cast their votes. Remote voting would throw off the entire collaborative process.
elleng
(131,056 posts)confusing.
hueymahl
(2,507 posts)It wont stop them attacking you, however.
lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)But then I don't know how the law applies to the US Senate.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So, they have to be brought up to speed on this, as well.
rpannier
(24,333 posts)You have to be physically present to vote
If you're in the hospital (Ted Kennedy, John McCain), at a funeral, whatever, you're prevented from voting
samnsara
(17,625 posts)marlakay
(11,482 posts)They wont want another dem vote on anything.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)But once it's born, toss it from the tallest building and get on with important legislation to save more fetuses. Hmmmm, sounds asinine to me.
bdamomma
(63,917 posts)they are so hypocritical and twisted in their thinking they care more about the fetus than the child.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)This seems alarmist. McCain cannot vote while getting medical treatment either. And no one will have their pay stop.
Votes in the Senate do not just pop up. I am confident she will be able to schedule he feeding or pumping times around them. Most of the time very few senators are on the floor anyway.
Compared to women I see in my workplace she has it made. Well, except the horrible injuries she received fighting in our names. Bet you she is already planning a little nursery it crib in her office.
I am not aware of any workplace that allow women or men to bring infants in for care.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)As long as there are policies that deal with that including a way for constituents to have their voices hear(a vote in congress) if their representative is female. Voting times can be worked around. Policies should be in place.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)she can still go back to vote, it seems. Like McCain did. Right?
Maternity leave is treated like medical leave. We are seeing the effect of that with McCain. You can't vote long distance, I guess. No one can. But you can go back for a day to vote.
She probably wouldn't be taking her infant back with her for the day. That would be too hard on a newborn.
magicarpet
(14,160 posts).....when his last child was born. Like a trooper he kept his nose to the grindstone stone and was boinking porn stars. He didn't suffer or cause any down time.
Oh... wait... that's different.
Sorry.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Votes are scheduled and the time allowed for each vote can be extended to accommodate Senators who need time to get to the floor. And Senators dont actually have to go all the way in to the chamber to vote. They can vote from the doorway - as long as the clerk can see them give a thumbs up or thumbs down.
A nursing mothers schedule can be handled, so the alarm is a little premature.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The reason a man would be out is because he is campaigning out of the area or recovering from brain cancer doesn't map to the idea that yes, she's nearby, and can come in for part of the time, and is capable of functioning.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)She can work during her leave. And her staff, including drafting legislation - who really does the day-to-day work - will still work during that time. She can even vote in committee without being there since, the Senate allows committee members to vote by proxy. The only thing she won't be doing is vote on the floor, which she has to be present to do.
And there are numerous reasons Senators - male or female - are out besides campaignIng or brain cancer, including paternity leave and family issues.
This really isn't a big deal.
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)Pure hyperbole.
Every committee has an ante-room. The chambers have the cloakrooms. Nobody spends time on the floor except to vote which in a 15 minute vote, literally takes the time to be recognized by the clerk calling the roll and to vote up or down. Then you leave again.
Nobody can vote on the floor absentee. Just in committee.
This article is trying very hard to make something out of nothing
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Much ado about nothing.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I still think putting a clear policy in place for parental leave and nursing is a good idea, always.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,113 posts)After all, republicans hate women,
Squinch
(50,989 posts)warmfeet
(3,321 posts)we are still living in the 18th century. How about we update things a bit and throw republican scum to the curb, or sewer.
williesgirl
(4,033 posts)hueymahl
(2,507 posts)williesgirl
(4,033 posts)hueymahl
(2,507 posts)Frustrating times. Peace!
former9thward
(32,064 posts)Senators don't take leaves when they are ill. They just don't show up. No penalties. I don't see the problem here.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Keeping a high voting percentage is very important to senators. They usually try to keep it in the high 90s, so they make a point of not missing votes unless it can't be avoided. When they do have to miss votes, they inform leadership and provide a reason so that their absence is "excused" and they can point to that if people raise questions about their low voting percentage.
onecent
(6,096 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,845 posts)Response to ehrnst (Original post)
EffieBlack This message was self-deleted by its author.
Crunchy Frog
(26,610 posts)Is this just a Rethug tactic to remove a Democratic vote?
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)mountain grammy
(26,642 posts)think I'll blow a gasket soon. This, of course, is due to our male dominated society, but we know that here.
We really need to elect more women.
bdamomma
(63,917 posts)mountain grammy, and more women are running too. The ole boy's club are showing how immature they are. Jerks.
tblue37
(65,477 posts)Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)He is absent now. Is he barred from voting or sponsoring legislation while he is absent due to his medical condition? Therein lies the answer as to whether she is being treated fairly or not.
onenote
(42,737 posts)And the same as a male senator who takes paternity leave.
Giving birth and brain cancer--totally the same thing.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)A woman can't be penalized for taking time off to give birth. But, at the same time, if aspects of her job can only be done in a specific location, her employer is not required to change its entire work protocol so she can do the work from a different place.
For example, if she's a mechanic who needs to be on site to do auto repairs, the company doesn't have to switch over to automated robotics so that she can do the repairs from her home. They just can't fire her because she can't come in to the shop for a period of time.
onenote
(42,737 posts)for introduction in person.
If you aren't present for a vote, it doesn't matter why -- voluntary, involuntary absences are the same. If you can't make it because you are giving birth, or recovering from a difficult labor, or nursing your child or taking them to their first day of school or their high school graduation or their wedding or the birth of your grandchild or visiting a sick relative or attending a funeral for a parent or child or anyone else, or if you're in a coma, or you simply decided to go scuba diving or take a long lunch -- no distinctions are made. The only procedure for voting is to show up and cast your vote in person. And the only way to introduce a bill is to show up and give it to the presiding office who hands it to the clerk.
And nothing prevents a Senator from drafting a bill or signing on to someone else's bill as an original co-sponsor: you don't have to be present to do those things.
mainer
(12,022 posts)Unnur Brá Konráðsdóttir, from the centre-right Independence Party, nursed her 6-week-old daughter at the podium of the Alþingi parliament on Wednesday, while explaining her vote on new immigration legislation to colleagues.
Although the northern European country has an extremely relaxed attitude towards breastfeeding in public, it was the first time an MP had fed her child while actually addressing parliament.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/icelandic-mp-breastfeeds-baby-debate-parliament-al-ingi-a7358681.html
bdamomma
(63,917 posts)how the ole boys club likes to discriminate against women. This is disgusting.
I signed petition.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)This is NOT a thing.
Sen. Duckworth is not being "penalized" in any way. She will NOT be barred from voting. She will NOT be prevented from drafting and introducing legislation. She will not be forbidden to nurse her baby in a convenient location.
And, as far as I can tell, she hasn't asked for our help in handling her business. She certainly is not, as the petition claims "single-handedly trying to change Senate rules to allow new mothers in office to vote on legislation" because the Senate rules don't prohibit new mothers from voting on legislation. That's just a false claim.
She's a grown-assed woman who is on top of her shit and surely has worked out her any arrangements she needs. This petition makes us look like over-reactive snowflakes.
DFW
(54,428 posts)Let it die in detention, it's the Republican way. Pro-life? Not if birth has already occurred, they're not.
DownriverDem
(6,230 posts)Unless medically she can't be there, I think she will be in the Capitol so she can vote. In fact, she should bring the baby with her when she votes.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)TygrBright
(20,763 posts)They do not quite grasp (yet) the importance of this issue.
Lots of phone calls, people. LOTS AND LOTS of phone calls.
I'll be tracking this one and checking in with Heinrich's and Udall's office until they issue solid statements of support for the rules change.
Particularly Heinrich's office as the phone answerer gave a definite "clueless git" impression. At least Udall's phone answerer, while she wasn't familiar with the specifics of the rules change issue, recognized that it is important, put me on hold to see if there was any established position, and then took my email address to update me if/when more info is available.
This issue right here is a serious challenge to the power of the US patriarchy. When new mothers are in the Senate, reviewing issues, hearing testimony, formulating bills, participating in debate, and VOTING ON LEGISLATION, we will see some real evolution in a human direction.
firmly,
Bright
lisby
(408 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)she can't take maternity leave? wtf.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)This whole argument is ridiculous, as is the fact-free petition.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)This seems ridiculous to me, if true.
Is it a true claim?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I just want to make sure I understand correctly.
In the private sector, when someone goes on family leave, we even turn off their corp e-mail access. But it's a different world. If I commit a crime on the way to work, I can't go 'sorry officer, I have to get to work and kick off a compiler run.'. Where a senator has explicit laws that ensure they are able to reach the floor under exigent circumstances.
I think that is why this story is somewhat compelling, because it's not a private sector job. That's my take anyway.
Thank you for taking time to clarify/fix facts. Badly needed all over these days.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)There really isn't "maternity leave" in the House or Senate in the same sense as in the private sector since Senators don't work 9-5 and can take time off whenever they want. But even when they aren't working, they are considered in duty status because Senators are Senators 24/7, whether they are actually working or not. They usually don't take time off when the Senate is in session because they need to be in Washington to vote. But if they're going to miss votes, they usually will let the leadership know so their absence is recorded along with the reason therefor, but that's not a requirement.
Senator Duckworth is due in late April. The Senate is scheduled to be on recess from April 28- May 4, so there won't be any votes during that time. But she will likely (but not necessarily since she seems pretty robust) miss votes in early May. But she'll still be a Senator and can conduct Senate business, including meeting/talking with her staff, meeting with constituents, drafting legislation (although the legislation is usually drafted by staff in conjunction with Legislative Counsel and then edited/approved by the Senator). She can put participate in meetings with her colleagues and staff by phone or video. She can put floor statements into the record, participate in her committee hearings by having her statements entered into the record and question witnesses by submitting questions in writing or having one of colleagues ask them on her behalf. She can even vote in committee by having another member or a staffer vote her proxy. The only thing she won't be able to do while she's away is vote since that must be done in person. But if she's in Washington and wants to vote, all she has to do is head on over to the Senate floor and she's good to go.
That's why this "She'll being penalized because she'll be on maternity leave" claim has no connection with the reality and it's a shame so many people are getting their shorts all in a bunch about it.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Oh my goodness, I feel hoodwinked by the article.
With that information, the whole story makes a whole lot more sense.