Can someone explain to me why military and/or hunting families are pro-gun?

[BigmanPigman]

I am a pacifist as is my family for 3 generations. I have never even seen a gun yet I was shot at and heard the bullet whiz past my face a foot in front of me. I taught "routine" gun shooter drills with my first graders after Sandy Hook. I listen to Dems who are all over the place on the news and on DU discussing gun control and I keep hearing Dems say, "I COME FROM A MILITARY /HUNTING FAMILY ......" as though that is a reason to allow people to own guns. WHY? I am serious and confused. We are not at war in our own backyards (2nd Amend) and we have stores and freezers for food (kill anything as a sport?). I do not understand this mentality or philosophy. Is it some sort of "identity" about "who you are"? Please explain this to me since it is a foreign concept. Is it about how you were raised? This seems to be an American philosophy to me.

[SHRED]

1. Since you are unfamiliar with bore and muzzle velocity...

...I'm not sure you'd "understand".

[BigmanPigman]

2. HUH?

Yeah, I don't. I just googled it and still don't get it. Parts of a gun I assume.

[SHRED]

5. I referring to the "gun-splainers"

Some of their "interesting" replies to me are here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210273462

[Kaleva]

3. Nothing stated is going to change your mind

Even if someone were to write a reasoned and articulate response to your question, the odds of you suddenly becoming pro-gun is zip.

Human nature being what it is.

[hunter]

39. "pro gun"

How about "pro explosives?" How about "pro nerve gas?"

Yeah, for recreation me and my kids make explosives and blow up old buildings.

Then we go out hunting for birds with nerve gas.

Next, fishing with dynamite!

Explain to me how the gun fetishes are somehow different...

I've got no beef with someone who has a gun for hunting and utilitarian ranch and farm use.

But most guns are sold to the fetishists.

I think the first sign that somebody might be a little "off" and not to be trusted with guns is that they want one for anything other than utilitarian purposes.

Gun fetishes are not normal.

This nation will be a much better place when gun fetishes are denormalized, just as smoking and drunk driving have been.

[TheSmarterDog]

41. +1

[DBoon]

83. a gun is a tool

not a religious object to be worshiped

[Eliot Rosewater]

77. And yet the pro gun folks wont give em up no matter how many people die.

[Kaleva]

81. Very few of the hardcore on either side will change their minds

I personally wouldn't care if all semiautomatics were banned or regulated. I personally won't get one as that's more firepower then I'll ever need.

[McCamy Taylor]

4. Rifles are fun to shoot if you know what you are doing. It's a sport.

Cars can kill people, too, but racing can be fun.

What makes no sense to me as someone from a "gun" family is why you have to take driver's ed and get a driver's license and have car insurance but any senile, blind person with no idea how to load a gun can get one and keep it under their pillow with the safety off for the grandkids to find and brag about it as a "right." We do not have a "right" to leave razor blades in our front yard or open containers of gasoline next to open fires or unlocked cars with the keys in the ignition or even a swimming pool without a fence.

We should be talking about gun safety. The NRA has skillfully kept safety out of the discussion because they know that if safety ever gets discussed, next will be insurance--and the insurance industry dwarfs the NRA in terms of power. Once we require gun insurance, the insurance industry will protect us from ourselves the way they always do. Way more money at stake.

[TheSmarterDog]

17. Except that car owners associations don't oppose licenses & registration of cars.

Or insist that people any the God-given right to drive any vehicle they choose on the street in any manner they choose. Car owners associations don't oppose speed limits or lane restrictions.

And the NRA stopped being a "gun safety" organization long ago. They spend 80% of their budget lobbying against such things.

[RainCaster]

37. And car manufacturer's have no liability limits

Whereas the gun industry is immune to Amy sorry of liability. I don't get it.

[TheSmarterDog]

47. The manufacturer of any other type of product would be sued into oblivion.

If they found out their product was being used to commit multiple mass murders, they'd correctly be horrified. And they would take steps immediately to change the product to prevent it from being used so.

Gun manufacturers see these mass murders as free advertising. They refuse to make the necessary changes to their product to prevent these tragedies. And they sell or license add-ons to to make their product more lethal.

Gun manufacturing is a criminal enterprise by any reasonable definition.

[EX500rider]

51. "take steps immediately to change the product to prevent it from being used so"

Really?
The truck driving terrorist in Nice killed 86 people and injured 458.
What immediate steps did truck manufacturers make and have they been sued into oblivion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

[TheSmarterDog]

53. The difference is, of course, that trucks aren't designed to kill people. Guns are.

Thank you for parroting the same old RW NRA spin after every gun massacre they're responsible for. But the nonsensical attempt at distraction won't work this time.

[EX500rider]

54. I am not the one who said "any other type of product"

[TheSmarterDog]

55. No, you're the one pushing the RW spin.

[Marengo]

67. Any other type of product equals a Renault Midlum 270. No if, and, but, or accusation of RW spin

Will change that. Face it, you tripped yourself.

[TheSmarterDog]

69. One of the NRA's favorite responses to the need for actual, effective gun control

Is to claim "cars kill more people than guns, so we don't regulate them". The post I was replying to is just another variation of that.

But the fact is we do regulate cars. And owners of cars. And the use & operation of cars. So, just like every RW talking point, it's based on a lie.

[Marengo]

70. Has Renault been sued into oblivion?

[TheSmarterDog]

73. Show me 20 instances where a Renault truck has been used to commit mass murder.

I'll be generous and limit it to the last year.

[Marengo]

74. LOL! Shifting the goal posts, eh? Why would you need to do such a thing? Now, how about answering...

The question. Has Renault been sued into oblivion? This is a close ended question, so yes or no only as an answer is acceptable. Anything else, and you’re dodging.

[TheSmarterDog]

75. Not at all. You & the other poster are trying to equate vehicular homicide with gun violence.

Just because you've decided to dodge my question (and you have) & can't show they're actually equivalent (and you can't) it just destroys your argument. Totally.

No great surprise tho.

The fact is that car & truck manufacturers have been sued, repeatedly, for making shoddy & dangerous products. And they've constantly worked over the last 80+ yrs - along with the govt - to make their products better & safer for their driver, their passengers & the public at large. They are helped in this by the fact that motor vehicles are not and have never been designed deliberately to kill people.

OTOH, the primary purpose of firearms is just that: to kill people. Their manufacturers strive to make their product deadlier. And the GOP protects them in this.

So, unless you want to show the class just how obtuse really you are & how much of the NRA playbook you've memorized, you can go away now. You're dismissed.

[Marengo]

82. LOL! Just as I thought. Lets try again shall we?

Has Renault been sued into oblivion?

[TheSmarterDog]

86. Still trying to push those NRA talking points? You're more obtuse that I would've thought.

[Marengo]

108. Was Renault sued into oblivion as you suggested it would be?

[Squinch]

89. Bwahahahaha!!!!! Are you back for act two of the script? You certainly never veer from it!

[Marengo]

109. Was Renault sued into oblivion as that poster suggested it would be?

[Squinch]

110. "What about knives????1? Are you going to outlaw knives????1"

[TheSmarterDog]

111. Show me 20 instances where a Renault truck has been used to commit mass murder.

That's the standard that's been set, and the equivalence that you're trying - and failing - to prove.

But you can't. Can you? Because your NRA talking point is a sad, sick fable.

[Marengo]

114. Was Renault sued into oblivion as you suggested it would be in post #47?

[TheSmarterDog]

118. Where are the MULTIPLE MASS MURDERS that would cause them to be sued

As I suggested they would be in post #47?

Your premise is a RW NRA talking point pushed most recently by Wayne LaPierre himself.

And It Is A Lie. You have failed.

[Marengo]

121. Nope, try again. Was Renault sued into oblivion as you suggested it would be? Youve added the...

Multiple qualifier later to cover your error. At any rate, if you want to play this game, who manufactured the vehicle used in the London Bridge attack on 6/3/17? I’ll give you a hint, starts with the letter “R”.

[Marengo]

116. Its amusing to me that you consider the repetition of script as an original thought, as if that...

Isn’t a script in of itself.

[Squinch]

120. And back to "I know you are but what am I?" You're too much.

[Marengo]

123. Yet more original thought from you. Well, I suppose I should be impressed you didnt bleat...

“Script”. I’m tempted to start keeping count the next time you do.

[Squinch]

125. Go ahead: script! There's one. And can't wait to see which bingo square you spout next!

SCRIPT!

Did you think no one would notice that you are following the SCRIPT! Is that why the word SCRIPT! bothers you?

[DBoon]

85. Cars have many uses other than running people over

Guns are specifically designed to kill and (apart from target shooting) are not meant to be used for any other purpose

[TheSmarterDog]

87. Bingo. You get it.

[EX500rider]

94. Please, you said something silly, I called you on it, you doubled down,

..I called you on it again and you pulled out the "RW spin" canard to hide behind.
Nice try.

[TheSmarterDog]

95. And the fact that you're literally reading Wayne LaPierre's script has nothing to do with it.

Right.

[Marengo]

124. NRA SCRIPT NRA TALKING POINTS!!!! Is nothing more than a script itself.

[Squinch]

126. Oh, the irony! Does it bother you that people keep pointing out your SCRIPT?? It seems to!

[Marengo]

127. Theres two within moments of each other. Please continue, Im certain youll rack up an...

Impressive count of so much original thought.

[Squinch]

129. You aren't very good at counting. Is that because it's not part of the SCRIPT?

[Marengo]

131. Theres 3, still waiting for something unscripted from you.

[Squinch]

132. You're so cute! And go back. It's a lot more than three references to your SCRIPT!

[Marengo]

133. And now 4. Please do continue, you may mistakenly wander into something original. Of course..

There are many more, it’s the only play in your book. I’ve decided to keep count starting today.

[TheSmarterDog]

136. You're not very good at this are you?

[Marengo]

137. LOL! Im not the one who made a spurious claim and modified it mid-stream as camouflage.

Let’s try again, was Renault sued into oblivion?

[TheSmarterDog]

139. Poorly programmed computers get caught in endless loops.

What's your excuse?

[Marengo]

140. Was Renault sued into oblivion as you claimed they would be?

[TheSmarterDog]

142. So it seems you're less intelligent than a poorly programmed computer.

No surprise there.

[Marengo]

143. Was Renault sued into oblivion as you claimed they would be? Renault vehicles used in 2 terrorist...

Attacks. I’ve played along with your CYA goalpost shifting, now let’s see if you have the integrity to answer.

[SharonClark]

46. K&R

[spanone]

130. cars are not BUILT to KILL. guns are.

[bettyellen]

6. People who grow up w guns are afraid to do without them. They get accustomed to a false

Sense of power and control. My brother was a cop for 35 years, would not go anywhere without it. In his retirement he’s slowly getting used to the idea of not being “that guy”. But I think he would feel responsible.

[Adrahil]

7. It's a matter of culture.

Not sure what you're looking for here.... Military folks and hunters do not fear guns, as things, generally speaking. And many spent enough time with them to enjoy shooting from a sports point of view. I wouldn't say most of the people I grew up (military and hunters) were PRO gun, so much as they were not anti-gun. Guns are necessary for hunters, for example. There were the occasional enthusiasts... but they were more a generalized background in my experience.

[NutmegYankee]

8. Most hunters do not kill for sport, and in fact despise those who do.

Most go out with the intent of bringing meat to the table that they themselves procured. I garden for a similar reason, I could get the same vegetables at the grocery store but not with the sense of satisfaction.

As for killing the animal, it’s no worse than the current slaughterhouse methods.

The hunting family point is that a politician is sensitive to allowing hunting to continue. And honestly, almost every strong gun control nation does anyway.

[USALiberal]

10. All of the hunters I know hunt for fun, not the meat. It is a hobby, not a way to get food. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. Why not both?

[USALiberal]

14. You gun posts have been entertaining. n.t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Glad to be of service. I just get tired of the idea that hunting is acceptable only when the hunter

is filled with regret, sorrow and desperation before they pick up a gun to head out.

[NutmegYankee]

15. You have very different friends / acquaintances than me.

My friends stuff 2 freezers full of meat from hunting season.

[USALiberal]

16. Cool story. nt

[NutmegYankee]

19. It's not a story. nt

.

[Squinch]

18. Unless they can't afford to buy food, they are doing it for fun regardless of

how many freezers they have.

[NutmegYankee]

22. I'm not saying he doesn't enjoy it.

He takes most of his game with a bow from a tree stand on his property. So clearly he wanted to practice. I don't, which is why I don't hunt and garden instead. My attempts at hunting just ended in me being cold and bored.

[Marengo]

72. In the economically depressed area of rural Ohio I grew up in, hunting provided a considerable...

Supplement and helped to stretch the food budget. Resident landowners such as ourselves were not required to purchase a hunting license so we saved money on that as well. I’ve long since moved away, but know a good number still do this.

[Squinch]

79. Do those people have an average of 12 guns, including the $600-$1000 AR-15?

That's the typical white male republican gun owner of today.

[Hoyt]

107. Exactly.

[Marengo]

115. Irrelevant to my point concerning hunting as a valuable supplement for some.

[TheSmarterDog]

119. If they can afford to buy a dozen $1000 firearms, but can't afford feed their family

They have poor financial management skills.

[Marengo]

122. Again, irrelevant to the point I was making. I should think a smarter dog would realize that.

[TheSmarterDog]

138. The fact that can't see the relevance says a lot about you.

And not in a good way.

[Marengo]

141. There is no relevance, and we both know you understand this.

[stonecutter357]

62. lol !

[markpkessinger]

27. It may not be an easy way to get food, but it is a cheap way . . .

. . . I grew up in rural PA, where many people hunted, and there were more than a few families I knew growing up who relied on the meat they obtained via hunting -- meat they otherwise couldn't have afforded.

Don't get me wrong: I am not part of the pro-gun crowd. But a lot of urban and suburban folks still don't really understand the depth of much rural poverty in this country.

[flying rabbit]

56. Cool story

bro

[Sailor65x1]

61. The company you keep

Says a lot about you....

[treestar]

92. They may give the food to the needy

I think that can be what happens to it. My relatives hunt for sport, but they do keep some of the meat and I heard give the rest of it to some organization that will give it to those who need food.

[mainstreetonce]

9. I always ask

Why are police families pro the NRA idea of supporting assault rifles when those rifles can outshoot police?

[tazkcmo]

12. Army veteran

Never owned a gun and I'm not aware of a propensity of my fellow veterans to own handguns more so than the general population.

[Hoyt]

13. I'll take a shot -- While opinions vary, it appears military votes went 2, or 3, to 1 for trump.

That tells me something about that group. Plus, with no draft today, people who go into the military are attracted to guns by and large. Some go to further their education and similar reasons. But after the mass killings in Iraq, I'd think there are better ways for that.

Hunters -- I think they tend to be conservative and rural. But truth is, only 6% of adults have been hunting in that past 12 months. So, if you throw out those who just went once on some corporate outing or getaway to drink and stuff, there are not many folks who hunt to feed their family. Personally, someone who hunts animals -- not humans -- for food is not a big concern for me. Trophy hunters can go to hell as far as I am concerned.

In any event, this is an ad campaign for Bushmaster rifles -- that were used by the killer at Sandy Hook -- that pretty much nails who the rifles are aimed at:





I'm not sure I've articulated this exactly as I would if I had more time.

[BigmanPigman]

28. 99% of gun violence is done by men!

People seem to ignore that huge fact. However there are men and testosterone all over the planet as there are mental health issues. Apparently it is the "American Stud" who has to prove his manliness by owning a gun. Mostly men make the laws up until now, so is that why it is an American-Male issue and not a "male" issue in general?

[Hoyt]

31. Good point. Would have loved to see how Clinton reacted to this junk.

[BigmanPigman]

32. I like your choice of the word "junk".

A man's "junk". I don't know if it was intentional or not. Clever.

[njhoneybadger]

35. That's it, a stupid ass image they have of themselves.

[EX500rider]

50. 90% of homicides are committed by men and they are 77% of the victims.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain

[left-of-center2012]

20. Why are hunters pro-gun?

Why are fishermen pro rod and reel.

[Tribalceltic]

59. Haven't seen a lot

of multiple murders by fishing rod lately.

[left-of-center2012]

64. And you won't see hunters doing multiple murders

It's the gun nutz,
not sports hunters.

[Calculating]

21. It's good to have some degree of control over your own defense

Rather than just asking home invaders nicely to 'avoid the rape and murder'.

[marlakay]

23. My son n law is colonel in AF

Him and my daughter have never owned a gun, they don't want around their two boys. He knows how to use one and I believe has to do continuing training at work on base (they live off base this time) but none in home.

No one in my entire family has a gun except republican cousin I see rarely.

My son n law is pretty conservative now, wasn't when they joined 17 yrs ago.

[Squinch]

24. Most of today's "gun culture" exists simply because "those elite liberals" object to guns.

I think my brother is illustrative. My father hunted for sport up until the 60s when he had some epiphany and decided he didn't want to do it any more. He was your old-style hunter, had one 30-06 for the purpose. But before he stopped, he taught my brother to hunt. My brother had little interest in it. He opted out of the yearly hunting trip. When he moved out of the house, he didn't take the shotgun my father had bought him for Christmas one year. For most of his adulthood he didn't own a gun and had no interest in guns.

Then he started listening to the Oxymoron (Limbaugh) and watching Fox News. Now, in his 60's, he MUST have a gun. NO! He MUST have two! And he's going to shoot at any coyotes that stray onto his property and fuck all them libruls who object!

It is NOT the love of guns or hunting or whatever they tell you it is. It is the badge of the new republican. They love it because it makes US angry. Really.

As I said in another thread, if Democrats lodged a strong protest against summer squash, we would be pulling summer squash out of the cold dead hands of republicans.

It's not about the gun. It's about US and their need to feel some dominance over us, and their need to rub our faces in things we find abhorrent.

And PS: "We are not at war in our own backyards" should be a bumper sticker.

[BigmanPigman]

30. Your last sentence sums up what Wayne LaPierre

was saying at the C-PAC this morning exactly. It is a GOP talking point (and supported by Putin so that tells you something right there). You can have the copyright for the bumper sticker.

[KentuckyWoman]

26. My brothers hunt

they look at a gun as a tool for putting food on the table just like they look at a table saw for building a cabinet and talk about each in the same terms. Both can maim or kill and need to be respected. They both own more different kinds of saws than they own guns.

I am not a fan of guns. I appreciate the food they helped put on the our table as a child. We often struggled with hunger at our house. You don't think farm people would, but you'd be surprised what a few bad years will do to a family.

You may not understand it, but country people hunt and compare notes on what weapon, ammo or technique works best.

[Hoyt]

33. I get it, but the number of hunters who do it to put food on table is very small in this country.

And they certainly couldn't afford to own a bunch of guns for standing up to the government or fighting "thugs" in the streets that might escape from the city, to hear them tell it.

[rickford66]

58. Is hunting for food more economical than buying it ?

Costs of guns, ammo, license, pickup truck, gun rack, camo suit with orange blaze vest, deer stand (optional), lunch etc. On my property I also find empty whisky bottles.

[hunter]

78. Nobody hates drunken hunters from the city more than the ranchers in my family.

I think they'd shoot them if they could get a license for that. Or at least tag and clip their ears.

When my brother and his friend were kids they were screwing around with their BB guns and accidentally shot friend's dad's horse. After that they were banned from all guns forever.

That's the actual Wild West tradition. Fools and their guns are soon parted.

[enough]

29. Dear BigmanPigman,

I also come from a multi-generational family of pacifists and C.O.'s on both my own and my husband's family.

I and my family own guns for hunting and shooting on our land, and we welcome a small number of other families and individuals to hunt, people we know well. Some of these neighbors are now bringing their daughters and sons to learn to hunt, both bow-hunting and guns. All eat, share and store everything they kill. Local food banks take anything the families don't use.

I don't hunt myself, though I was taught marksmanship at a YMCA camp in the late 50's and I liked it because I was unexpectedly good ar it.

We also have a family of life-long friends whose child was killed in a multiple random shooting at a school.

I think we attribute both more and less power to the gun than it actually has. It does not have mystical powers of evil, which you might think if you had never seen one, as you say.

On the other hand, we haven't come to terms with the fact that the loaded gun gives a disproportionate power over life and death to anyone who happens to be holding it. Apparently we as a society have now decided that it's fine for someone to have the power to kill many people at one time very quickly just because they have decided they want to, or feel like it.

Ever since my friend's child was killed in that random shooting, I've been trying to understand why we Americans have decided that we want to live in a world where a lot of us can be killed at a moment's notice by anyone who decides to do it. Apparently, the freedom to massacre is now an American virtue.

[sarisataka]

34. I find target shooting

To be a very zen-like activity. I focus to make every shot the best and it forces all other thoughts from my mind. It is a very good way to relieve stress or to Simply clear the mind when it is cluttered. For me no other activity requires that much mental devotion.

The only reason I hunt is because my teenage daughter asks to hunt. I honestly don't know why she took an interest but every year, for the last 3, she looks forward to us going out and doing small game hunting. So far we haven't actually shot an animal but still she enjoys the activity.

[nocalflea]

49. And it's a great way to learn about the natural world.

That and "just us " time is why I accompanied my dad on hunts.

During dove and duck season , I was often his bird dog (I didn't get burrs stuck in my fur or get distracred by jackrabbits). Great memories.

[hunter]

36. My dad and my father-in-law just said "no" to guns in their military service.

My dad was a nearsighted Radar O'Reilly medical clerk, and my father-in-law was a Marine medic.

Most of the vets I know don't have gun fetishes.

A few of them are radical anti-war activists.

[sarisataka]

40. Could you explain how

Your father-in-law was a marine medic, when Marines do not have medics?o

[hunter]

42. He joined the Navy.

He got to see an atomic bomb explosion up close too. Assigned to the Marines.

[sarisataka]

44. Thank you

I found it odd since the term used is corpsman but I suppose some may use medic as a generic term. Corpsmen were always very valued members of our teams

[ProfessorGAC]

65. My Dad Did That Too

Occupying forces in Europe after WWII. Stationed in Italy. (He was totally fluent in italian.) Somewhere around Naples

That was around 1949, because Korea was happening but they sent him there. He went over as a corporal and ended up a sargeant. (He had dropped out of the college part of seminary school, because, you know, no women!) So, the college boy from the big city was made a "leader" in basic.

Only bad thing he saw was a self-inflicted head wound by a major who had been caught black marketeering and hoarding of objet d'art. Most other stuff he saw was broken ankles and cuts and bruises and sick kids. (Remember the hospitals were gone so the locals had no place to go but to the GI's.)

He was not fond of the army, but didn't hate it either.

[Lord_at_War]

117. It's always funny.

when you're a 5 yr old kid who learns that your dad was in the Air Force from 58-62- you think to yourself, "You got to fly jets?!!"

"No- I worked in the motorpool fixing Jeeps in Reykjavik, Iceland."

(sigh)

[Adrahil]

43. My dad was a Navy Corpsman...

Served with the Marines in Korea.

He carried a rifle and wore Marine fatigues to avoid getting shot by snipers.

[sarisataka]

48. Over in the first Gulf

we had a Corpsman who wanted to carry an M-60. Since that role is about the only shorter lifespan than Corpsman, we said no.

[Sgent]

91. They let them now

a good friend of mine was in the medical corp in Iraq and Afghanistan (USAF). He was a mustanged Marine, and the gave him and M-16 and a sidearm when he went into the field.

[gay texan]

38. Where i live it is a needed tool

and nothing more.

out in the west texas fields, the western diamond back rattle snake is a very real threat. A small shot gun is needed as i have come across a den of them doing my regular chores. I usually come across 10-15 in the summer months.

Another threat is wild pigs. Generally they will leave you alone, however the males are known to attack with out warning and are extremely territorial. If i am going into an area where i suspect they will be, i will take a high powered bolt action rifle.

Guns were never a central part of my life growing up. Dad being a Vietnam combat vet, i can count on one hand the times the guns came out of the closet growing up during my years of being home. They only came out when dad absolutely had to use them, shooting a rabid or very injured animal. It really honestly was a tool nothing more. In my later years my friends and i would target practice with .22 rifles.

Guns to me were just a tool, nothing more, and that all they will ever be. I own only what i have a use for

[hunter]

45. Pigs are the most dangerous animal in the California forest.

Our rattlesnakes aren't too bad.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/112721453

[nocalflea]

52. Different strokes.

My pops was a hunter and a pacifist.

[Silver Swan]

60. I am not reading all the responses here because it disturbs me too much.

My spouse was a US Marine from the Viet Nam era. He has not fired a gun since he was discharged. He has no interest in owning a gun and hates the NRA.

[gay texan]

63. i under stand completely.

My dad is the same way. Dad was an avid hunter before the war. After the war, he wanted very little to do with them

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. Yeah, I come from a military family, and my father hunted

I don't have a problem with banning high-capacity magazines, or AR-15's for civilian ownership. My father hunted deer with semi-automatic rifles in .30-06; those rifles had a magazine capacity of five rounds. My grandmother slept with a double-barreled shotgun next to the bed after my grandfather died, and my grandfather kept an old .22 revolver in his desk drawer. It's possible both to hunt, and to have weapons for home defence, without thinking that civilians need to own AR-15's with 30 or 60 round mags.

[cynatnite]

68. Been around guns my entire life and I'm a army vet...

This is how it was for us...

My dad always said that if you're going to aim your weapon at someone, you better be prepared to kill. That was not something he said lightly and he made sure we didn't take it that way either. When I was growing up, it was about hunting. You only hunt what you're going to eat and there were times what he hunted got us through some tough winters. It was the same for my own family.

In the military, we were trained on how to properly take care of and to use a variety of weapons. That same ethic my dad taught us, was continued. We had Vietnam veteran drill sergeants who understood war and killing. There wasn't any kind of "kill 'em all" philosophy taught. They didn't train us to be blood-thirsty killers. They trained us to survive in the event of being in a wartime situation and to be there for one another.

I was taught my entire life about using, caring and storing weapons responsibly. I can honestly talk about the need for gun control and that we don't better our society with more guns.

It's about reaching out to gun owners and speaking to them as a gun owner and/or military.

[Lee-Lee]

71. Because they know more about guns and understand them more than anti-gun types

And that’s a serious answer.

For folks with little or no experience with guns they are scary, they don’t like them, they are an abstract thing that is evil.

For folks that are more familiar with an item that mystery is gone and they are more able to view things in a straightforward and rational manner.

[Hoyt]

80. Bull. People who have never shot a gun can express a cogent opinion about the damn things,

gun use and abuse,and the people who are attracted to them.

Probably a better opinion than those who can’t sleep or walk out the front door without a few of their guns. Those kids from Parkland are a perfect example.

Gunners are addicted to the friggin things, and feelings it gives them, to view them in a “straightforward and rational manner.”

[Lee-Lee]

96. Sure you can form an opinion

But if you are asking someone for an opinion on new laws to regulate something, whose opinion is informed?

Let’s say Congress is proposing new laws to regulate farms. Who will have an opinion based on knowledge and experience, a person who grew up in a farm and farms now or someone who grew up in a suburban home and has only seen farms on TV.

Or they want new aviation safety rules. Does the opinion of a person who has never flown in a plane carry equal weight to that of a career pilot?

If you have never shot a gun and don’t really understand how they work then your opinion is what it is, but it’s coming from a position of less knowledge on the subject and less experience on the subject than someone who has experience with them.

That’s just how it is. The opinion of a person with no experience in a matter is coming from a position of ignorance on that subject compared to people with experience.

I’m sure you don’t like that pointed out, but your discomfort when your lack of knowledge or experience behind your opinion is noted doesn’t make you any more experienced in the matter.

[Hoyt]

100. Sorry, you're wrong. A gun lover can't be objective. A dead kid means nothing compared to their gunz

Otherwise, gunners would have turned them in long ago.

[Hoyt]

103. I guess you'd have George Zimmerman draft gun and civil rights laws.

[Hoyt]

105. So I have to be a white wing gun-stroker to understand dead kids ain't right?

Forget about trying to define "assault" weapons as in the past. Just ban semi-autos outright. If you like ban guns with detachable magazines and limit ammo capacity to six rounds. It doesn't take a gun-humper to put that into law.

[hunter]

88. I'm not scared of guns.

I'm not even scared of gun fetishists.

My goal is to denormalize gun culture, just as smoking in public and drunk driving were denormalized. It's a public health hazard. I want to empower family, friends, and communities to reject gun fetishes.

Gun love is disgusting.

The NRA is disgusting.

[Eliot Rosewater]

99. LOL so someone who has not shot a gun cant have a RATIONAL opposition to them...wow

If you reach any further you will sprain your arm.

[samir.g]

76. They are into killing, obviously

One kills critters, the other kill whoever Uncle Sam tells them to.

We don't have the draft anymore, so it's all people that signed up for it.

[beachbum bob]

84. just like I don't really care about vegan's reason to be what they are, neither do I with pacifist..

you all can believe and do what you want. The line is drawn when such views are forced on others whether its eating meat or hunting or fishing. I own guns, I don't hunt but plent of my friends do and none of us believe assault weapons belong in civilain hands.

BTW, my family has proudly served our country going back to the french and indian wars and in every war since then....freedom comes from those willing to fight and die. Not to diminish pacifistic people, I sure hope you and your family have offered service to our govt and our people in other ways

[mainer]

90. I'm not sure they're "pro-all-guns." They just want to keep hunting.

I doubt most of them give a whit about anyone's right to own an AR-15. They just don't want you to take away their regular ol' hunting rifles.

[Snackshack]

93. We are never going...

To get a total ban on firearms. Personally I would not want for that to happen. I enjoy target shooting, skeet shooting. Pistols, bolt action rifles, shotguns should remain availible.

What should happen is this. IMO

The military style firearms with the high velocity rounds however should be banned.

High capacity clips/mags/drum total ban and made illegal. 8-10 rounds should be max capacity.

Mandatory back ground checks on all sales, no exceptions.

Proof of safe/proper storage. It is not a “tragic accident” when a 2yr old gets hold of a firearm and injures or worse themselves or others. Prosecution to the fullest extent of the law should be applied to the person who allowed that to happen.

Along with initial registration, registration renewal on a 1 or 2 year basis for all firearms should be mandatory.

24-48hr waiting period on all purchases. I know of several instances where a person had a breakdown and went to a sporting goods store bought a firearm and then went and committed a horrible crime.

Any felony conviction or mental adjudication revokes the right to own a firearm.

As I said I enjoy target shooting but owning a firearm requires a level of responsibility that needs to be meet before a person should be able to buy a firearm.

[Lee-Lee]

97. What is a high velocity round you want to ban?

What is the cutoff in velocity when you reach “high velocity”.

I am curious, since you want to make a law about it, how you define it.

[Snackshack]

101. Read these.

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

[Lee-Lee]

102. That didnt answer the question

[Eliot Rosewater]

106. I wanna allow each state to abide by the 2nd amendment and enforce guns

being allowed ONLY at well regulated militias.

For instance in a state like CA or NY or others probably that would mean all assault weapons banned, all ammo for them, and most other guns would be allowed ONLY at the militia. You know, common sense stuff like that.

[GulfCoast66]

112. Yeah Mr. smarty pants. There are DU members who may not be firearms experts

Who want restrictions on guns to keep us all safer.

But there are also those of us who are knowledgeable about guns and want restrictions.

My deer rifle is pretty high velocity. Well over 3000fps. And my dads old deer rifle is a 1964 semiautomatic Winchester .308. Pretty much the civilian version of the m-14.

My rifle is bolt action and has an internal 5 round magazine. My dads old gun has a detachable 5-6 round magazine. Not sure because I have not shot it in years.

We have had semiautomatic high velocity rifles on the market for approaching 100 years. But we have only had massacres of school children for 20-30 years or so.

And surprise, surprise... that is about when the firearm industry started heavily marketed the AR and it’s variants with high capacity magazines. Which would have been a failure had the NRA which had recently been taken over by libertarian nutjobs not given them cover in their shooting and hunting magazines. Because they did not fit into the traditional American gun culture.

I scraped the NRA sticker off my truck when I realized they were no linger a hunter and gun safety organization but a wing of the radical right.

Any liberal who loves their AR or AK or variant is a tool of carefully orchestrated right wing strategy.

[sharedvalues]

113. There are gun-fetishists and hunters. They are different. The fetishists are insane

Here's the key article to understand, in my opinion:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-tactical-turn

The gun culture that we have today in the U.S. is not the gun culture, so to speak, that I remember from my youth. It’s too simple to say that it’s “sick;” it’s more accurately an absurd fetishization. I suppose that the American Gunfighter, in all of his avatars, is inescapably fetishistic, but (to my point) somewhere along the way – maybe in, uh, 1994? – we crossed over into Something Else: let’s call it Gonzo Fetishization. The American Gunfighter as caricature.

[MaryMagdaline]

128. You somehow have to list your masculine bonafides

Before you get to have an opinion. The NRA and RW America are at war against the nanny state. Their term. The kids from Parkland represent to them the Glee Club and all that is despised by RW America.

It seems that the only masculine "virtue" that is recognized in our culture is the willingness to kill. The sniper movies, lone gun vigilantes, video shooting games. Obama was able to get enough of the male vote by appealing to the masculine virtue of protectiveness. The stronger you are, the more you protect your family and community. Dads and cops are good ... lone assassins are bad.

Liberals are seen as emphasizing feminine virtues, which infuriates the RW.

So .. to your question, every male weighing in on gun control has to say something to the effect of "I am a real man, but..."

the RW is now attacking police officers ... they sense the approval of gun control among police officers. There is a shift, don't know if it is permanent.

[BigmanPigman]

134. I sort of mentioned this point because to me it

is the most glaring common factor in gun violence in the US. Read my posts #28 and #31. 99% of the gun violence is committed by men when they are only 49% of the population. It also must be an "American Male" problem since, like mental health issues, there are pretty much the same percentage of men and women in every country on Earth but they don't have the enormous percentage of gun violence that we do. Also, the US has 4.5% of the earth's population and we have 44% of the guns. This is a good article.
https://www.vox.com/cards/gun-violence-facts/guns-domestic-violence-united-states-risk

[MaryMagdaline]

135. Yes, and we should be able to address it without being perceived as attacking masculinity

The RW is far more adept at labelling us as anti-male than we are in appealing to positive masculine virtues. I think the kids at Parkland have hit the right stride. They are STRONGLY, unapologetically making NRA backers feel shame, or at least feel the desire to justify themselves.

Good recommendation above, thank you.