Breaking: Stoneman Douglas School resource officer "never went in" once the shooting started

[NightWatcher]

https://wsvn.com/news/local/sheriff-israel-stoneman-douglas-resource-deputy-resigns-amid-investigation/

FORT LAUDERDALE, FLA. (WSVN) - Broward Sheriff Scott Israel has announced that the school resource deputy for Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School has resigned amid an internal investigation.

Snip

However, said Israel, video showed a deputy arriving at the west side of the building where the shooting took place, taking up a position and never going in.

The cop wouldn't do anything but we should've armed the teacher.

[unblock]

1. "taking up a position and never going in" is a polite way to say he was hiding.

[lunasun]

21. This deputy was more frank in this interview

In an interview with the Times, Coral Springs Officer Burton said Deputy Peterson “was seeking cover behind a concrete column leading to a stairwell.”

[appal_jack]

97. Pretty much proves the lie of a common trope here.

"You don't need a gun,, the police will protect you!"

Actually, they probably won't. Most likely, they will not be nearby when you face a threat. They will show up to make a report, and if you are lucky, pursue the criminal after the fact. And if they do happen to be around, their priority is to usually protect themselves. While this particular deputy was shamed into resigning (while close enough to retirement that it probably does not matter much), the Supreme Court has already ruled that police officers have no absolute duty to protect members of the public.

-app

[unblock]

101. whatever.

i haven't searched du extensively for that particular "trope" but i don't think very many people here at all are thinking that one barney fife with six bullets is much of a defense against someone with enough firepower to take out the entire football squad in a few minutes.

mostly we're trying to figure out how to keep these tragedies from happening in the first place, not trying to figure out how to get more arms to counter it when it does happen. most people here are roundly rejecting the idea of more arms at schools.

but by all means, feel free find a way to use this to push your point.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. I have a crazy idea, very crazy

remove guns from the public spaces and put them in the regulated militias per the Constitution.

[fierywoman]

17. Doesn't Switzerland do something like this?

[Red Mountain]

72. The regulated militia part?

Yes.

We have failed in that regard. Not a little bit. Completely. Abjectly.

And some fucking losers still want to pretend we are honoring the vision of our founding fathers.

[fierywoman]

96. Yes, yes, and yes!

[brush]

98. Talking about an "ah-ha" moment. This should be spread far and wide. K&R

None of the gun nuts can even argue with what the Constitution says.

[BigmanPigman]

3. CNN is all over this.

The parents of victims are naturally furious.

[malaise]

15. I watched the press conference on Florida Local 10

I got the impression that Peterson is approaching retirement age and resigned when suspended for that reason.
My question is why was the SRO someone approaching retirement age and what weapon did he have to take on a student on the rampage with an AR-15.

Was he a coward- I don't know.

[DeminPennswoods]

32. Parkland was the SAFEST city in FL

This deputy never in his wildest dreams thought he would have to confront an active shooter situation. He was going to have a nice cushy job his last few years on the force and then retire. Didn't quite work out that way.

[malaise]

38. Precisely - and I have no doubt that he is as destroyed mentally as everyone who experienced

this senseless slaughter

[busterbrown]

62. Labeling People "Cowards"?

I wonder how many here with professional training, would have jumped right into the fire with little knowledge of what actually was going on...

And you say he was approaching retirement? Another factor..

Another Concern? This incident will make great fodder for the NRA... Every scapegoat they can find..

I agree with your last statement

[SoCalMusicLover]

4. We Need More Guys Like This To Keep Our Schools Safe nt

[NightWatcher]

5. The cop was chicken shit, so the math teacher should've gone in blazing

[SoCalMusicLover]

7. Teachers Are Trained & Educated To Defend Their Students With Guns

Aren't they?

[whathehell]

68. Um, no, cops are trained & educated to defend the public. n/t.

[madaboutharry]

6. Horrible events

It is during horrible events we discover who are the cowards and who are the heroes.

The three coaches and teachers gave their lives to save their students. They probably didn't know that about themselves until that moment.

[malaise]

18. Why should any of them have to sacrifice themselves and deprive their own families

of their presence? Ban the effin' weapon.

[busterbrown]

70. Exactly Malaise...!

SRO's were probably created for the troublemakers and discipline problems..

When he took the job years ago...He probably could have never foreseen this type of situation!

[malaise]

71. Precisely

This is madness

[brush]

100. Of course it's madness, and it's spiraling even more out of control with gun nuts calling...

for more guns to protect us from the multitude of guns pouring into the streets.

It's the complete opposite of sanity.

This shooting might be the tipping point to restore some sanity around this question of unfettered access to guns being a right.

[malaise]

103. I hope so

This has to stop - children are terrified to go to school so gun-humpers can own AR-15s.

[hatrack]

87. Yes, the shooter drills held regularly at the school made foresight impossible . . .

.

[UpInArms]

24. And some very brave students

Anthony Borges

15-year-old student who was shot five times during last week's massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School is credited with saving the lives of at least 20 other students.

A fundraising site says Anthony Borges was shot in both legs and his back while attempting to close and lock a classroom door last Wednesday. Seventeen people were killed.

Borges' friend Carlos Rodriguez told ABC's "Good Morning America" that the two rushed to hide in a nearby classroom when they first heard gunshots. He says no one knew what to do, but that Borges "took the initiative to just save his other classmates."

[madaboutharry]

25. Some people are born with bravery.

[appalachiablue]

78. Great kid- bravery, initiative, a leader. It's unusual and exemplary.

[OhNo-Really]

108. And a very young JrRotc took 5 bullets holding door for others.

I can't criticize an old cop facing an AR-15.

I can criticize the proponents of semo-automatic weapons. May they all rot in hell.

[milestogo]

8. Wouldn't he have been out-armed and probably killed?

[nolabear]

11. Yes. Thats what he signed up for.

I certainly wouldn’t wish it on him but that’s the deal.

[milestogo]

50. It seems that high school security should involve swat teams on site.

A lone security guard isn't much of a defense if people are coming in with assault rifles.

[exboyfil]

64. Nope just a group of uncoordinated and untrained teachers

should be able to handle any threat with their Glocks.

/sarcasm

[yardwork]

67. Unbelievable, isn't it?

[malaise]

19. Precisely

Outlaw the weapon.

[janterry]

40. Yes

How could this man have known where the fire was coming from and what to do. Or how many gunmen were involved.

He did the best he could in a terrible situation. If he had chased down the killer, all that would have happened was that he would have been killed. I expect he called for help.

I don't blame this man one bit. Security guards in schools can't prevent this kind of violence they just happen to be in the right hallway - or the right room and 'get a lucky shot.'

[whathehell]

69. He could have called for backup maybe?

[FarCenter]

88. IIRC, he was the one that called 911

[milestogo]

99. If he saw the shooter and the weapon, describing that to the swat team

was probably worth more to save lives than anything he could have done. As a security officer he would have been shot first.

[lunasun]

9. He had enough time in to resign and retire. They were going to suspend him . He retired

[lapfog_1]

10. how many of us would go into the building

armed with a handgun... 6 shot revolver or maybe more in a magazine

I might... I don't really know. I've never been in a fire fight.

I don't think anyone knows until you are in the situation.

I don't think it would have made a difference.

[livetohike]

12. But he was employed to keep everyone safe. It was his job. The guilt he

must feel is unimaginable.

[lapfog_1]

27. Yes, it was his job... what he signed up for

and if he knew ahead of time that he was and is a coward he shouldn't have taken the job.

I'm saying that I might have gone in... given that I signed up for it. Hell, I might have gone in if I was a teacher there or just a passerby.

We will never know if it would have made a difference or if it only would have meant 18 dead and one more "hero" burial.

What it points out is that even if we arm 10 teachers at every school or station more police at the high schools... it may not matter.

BTW, there was an armed SRO at Columbine too... he even shot at Eric Harris but failed to stop him or even hit him (from 60 yards or a little over half a football field... shot at him while Eric was reloading)

[nolabear]

14. But it was his job. He was there for that reason.

Hell no, I wouldn’t do it. But neither would I pretend I would.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

28. He might have thought being an SRO was a sweet gig, especially if he was close to retiring.

After all, what are the chances that a nut with an AR-15 would show up at his school before he retired?

The idea that any one person -- police officer, teacher, principal, or concealed carry passerby -- with a handgun can successfully bring down someone with an assault weapon is pure fantasy, a simplistic solution to a complex problem believed only by small minded politicians and some NRA members.

And Donnie Two Scoops, of course.

[lapfog_1]

39. This is my point.

Would any of us, armed with a handgun, go into a close quarters shooting situation against a person intent on killing anyone and everyone, armed with an assault rifle and, possibly, wearing body armor.

It would be something like this...

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/02/28/north-hollywood-shootout-anniversary-orig.cnn

Only indoors with just you versus the shooter

[AtheistCrusader]

54. That's actually a good example though. Also the Tyler Texas courthouse shooting.

The Tacoma Mall shooting.

In all cases, after the shooter was engaged by a bystander with a gun, or a police officer with a gun, no one else died.
If the shooter has to deal with armed opposition, it costs him time. Time that gets SWAT closer. Time that gets regular cops with rifles closer. Time for victims to GTFO, hide, barricade, etc. Some of the shooters suicide upon encountering resistance.

Every SECOND is the difference between one more victim, or not.

[lapfog_1]

63. every time???

tell that to the kids at Columbine.

The school SRO engaged Eric Harris when Harris went to reload. He shot at him and thought he hit him but then Eric started firing back again and went back into the school.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

[AtheistCrusader]

65. I meant in all three cases I cited.

I should have been more specific. Columbine is certainly an exception. They did commit suicide, but not immediately upon encountering the SRO. They escaped him, and kept shooting for a time, inside the school.

[Nailzberg]

80. Yep. Takes the initative away from the shooter. Initative is everything in a fight.

Nowadays, police are trained to directly engage active shooters. They drill on it. And it saves lives. There have sadly had many active shooter cases to examine, and across law enforcement, direct engagement has become the rule. It would appear this SRO did not do his job.

[Nailzberg]

83. But of course, my first preference would be not having readily available guns everywhere.

The arms race between cops and civilians is goddamn insanity.

[uponit7771]

73. +1

[Mosby]

33. I think a lot of people would have

I know I would. He had the element of surprise, even though he was probably out gunned.

The problem is cops are trained to avoid threats, they are good at setting up perimeters and that's about it.

[NutmegYankee]

44. They are usually trained to not go "John Wayne" and wait for backup.

There's a good chance the cop followed the training.

[lunasun]

57. Video said they were going to suspend him without pay but he retired. Does

not sound like they were standing by him because he folllowed training or commending his actions if they were suspending him without pay imo

[NutmegYankee]

59. Given the situation, I doubt they would stand by him even if it was policy. nt

[PdxSean]

34. Actually, I think most people WOULD have gone into the building.

Yes, I think the average person, with or without police training, WOULD have gone into the building armed with a handgun if it meant potentially saving the lives of a bunch of high school kids.

The fact that this person was sworn to protect them, let them rely on him to protect them, then failed or refused to take even minimum steps to protect them, makes the tragedy that much worse.

[Blue_true]

49. No one knows how brave they are until they are in a situation that requires bravery.

I don't know what I would have done.

[tazkcmo]

104. I would

But then I receive professional training and got paid to do that sort of thing you know, shoot people and do your best not to be shot while doing it. This poor sap went to the firing range every 6 months to prove that he could still hit the broadside of the barn. He did the only thing a man of his age, with his training, with the tools at hand could have done and that stay alive.

[BoneyardDem]

13. takes a certain type of guts to walk into a firefight

these guys hired on for that (albeit hoping its never necessary). Apparently even those trained for such occasions, will hesitate. Teachers are not cut of the same cloth as combatants. And that is as it should be. We all pick professions which suit our temperament.

[tblue37]

23. This is what I posted on another thread:

Just as a general principle, the kind of person who chooses a career in teaching, especially in the lower grades, is not the same kind of person as one who chooses a career in law enforcement, or one who goes into the infantry.

[BoneyardDem]

26. very true....and apparently not a "once in a million" consideration

just on one BB there are several of us with that same thought.

[PdxSean]

36. . . . and a certain amount of cowardice to swear to protect someone then hide when the need arises.

[BoneyardDem]

42. These school security guards are not much more than mall cops

It's what the school hires. They know these are not brave, military Rambo types when they interview them.

[PdxSean]

58. He was a deputy sheriff.

I suspect his union will agree with you, though, and argue that the poor guy was just another frightened, untrained officer of the law.

[BoneyardDem]

61. A Deputy Sheriff assigned to a school...says much of what his superiors thought of his abilities.

I work with a local PD on numerous projects.....most officers here (and I suspect the crime demographics here are similar to the area of this school) will go their whole careers and never have to take their weapon out of their holster in any situation outside of target practice. I'm pretty sure they are trained to take cover, not take risks and wait for back up under these types of situations, especially if out manned, or out gunned. It's the reality.

[Cha]

16. Oh god!

[SummerSnow]

20. Oh really? What a coward, lock him up!!!

[world wide wally]

77. Don't think he would have stopped the shooter just because that was his job.

In all reality, it would have just been one more casualty in spite of what Trump or LaPierre says. But, on the other hand, he knew that when he took the job. Sucks to be a security guard.

[Greybnk48]

22. I doubt the officer was equipped to walk in on something

like that. It would have been suicide!

[TheMastersNemesis]

29. How Many Times Are Officers Downed By A Single Gunman. Taking Someone Out Is Hard.

[Greybnk48]

84. Especially when you have a pistol and you can hear

that they have an assault rifle, a.k.a. "school shooter."

[JenniferJuniper]

31. Seriously, and this story just plays into the hands

of those who scream that teachers with handguns are the answer.

One person with a "normal" weapon would have not had a chance and the odds of him actually saving anyone in this situation were pretty much nil.

[Greybnk48]

85. Exactly Jennifer.

I hate it that this man or woman is being pilloried about this.

[RandySF]

30. So much for that armed guards idea

[Hoyt]

35. I don't know enough about what happened, but I'm not sure his running in guns blazing would have

been a good idea. If he'd gone like that, he might have shot some students himself. I suspect if he knew a bunch of students were going to die, he might have chosen the guns blazing.

Again, I don't know the facts. I understand the police hung back too trying to assess the situation. Supposedly it was all over in 7 minutes or so. That's not a lot of time to assess a situation.

I think some folks in the Las Vegas shooting hung back too. I bet a lot of folks who daydream they'd run in and end the thing with one perfect shot, have second thoughts when they find themselves in a real situation.

[Blue_true]

51. Weren't there officers in the Vegas crowd, including the Chief?

A regular handgun versus an assault rifle. Some think that is a fair fight, I don't

[Hoyt]

60. I think those who want to sell more guns and protect access to guns, say that, whether they believe

it or not.

[NutmegYankee]

37. I cant blame the cop.

Not paid enough to commit suicide considering the fact they were seriously outgunned.

[NightWatcher]

41. A certain responsibility comes when you strap a gun to your hip.

He was not willing to do his job. He's a coward. I've taken armed jobs and I have a family full of law enforcement officers. When you take a job, you do the job. If you are scared, you should get another job, not just hope you never have to act.

[NutmegYankee]

43. I have family serving as law enforcement officers too.

They didn’t sign up to face a weapon of war with a pop gun. Also, police are trained to not go into a situation like this like "John Wayne". They are trained to wait for backup.

[Yonnie3]

56. I thought of this too.

The training I read of was to essentially wait for the SWAT team. Establish a perimeter, gather information and so forth. I read that this training was being re-thought and other protocols were being developed to more rapidly engage. Part of the changes were to arm and train more officers with more powerful weapons. The discussion of the new protocol made it clear to me that as soon as the needed number of LEO were present (SWAT or not) to go in and engage. Not for a single officer, to do so.

Even if this new protocol which was being developed in a large city was rolled out. When would it have gotten to Parkland. Would it have peculated down to a nearly retired SRO? I doubt it.

[obamanut2012]

92. Nope, you are wrong

Cops do not sign up for a suicide mission, they are nit military. They know they may be killed, but you are wrong, they do not sign up for a firefight. Esp an SRO. In PARKLAND.

I loathe many, maybe most cops, but this dude was not a coward. He didn't want to die, armed only with a 9 mm and a couple mags.

[rpannier]

76. Deputy Sheriff

I think that means he has specialized training
He was close enough to retirement that he was probably making decent money. And even if he wasn't, as a deputy sheriff he has responsibilities that he did not meet

[obamanut2012]

91. Agreed

[boston bean]

45. I cant say I blame him. He didnt sign up to get himself killed. Police Officers

train to keep themselves alive too.

[obamanut2012]

93. Agreed -- why are people equating cops with military?!

[Baconator]

46. Most people won't know what they'll do until it happens...

Training is supposed to improve your odds but I've seen both...

[cilla4progress]

47. No amount of armed security guards exist to

keep our students safe from all the automatic weapons out there.

[NightWatcher]

48. This event is taking apart the gunner's talking points one by one

Guns are involved in every shooting. This to prevent one, you must remove the other.

[NCTraveler]

52. People should not be put in a position....

To defend what is political insanity.

[Motley13]

53. I doubt he had a gun that could outshoot the AR15

[obamanut2012]

94. He was armed with a 9mm and two extra mags

As per local media.

[mnhtnbb]

55. It's my understanding that active shooter protocol allows a single officer

to determine whether it's better to wait for back up or go in alone. Many of the first to arrive on scene
wait for back up so they can coordinate entering a building that can have many exits and they may not
know where the shooter is located.

[OregonBlue]

66. My first thought was he could have opened a door and started screaming I'm coming in and shooting.

It might have at least made the shooter pause and think about whether he wanted to go on or whether he might need to look for cover for himself. To not have even fired to try to let the guy know there were other people on the campus with guns was not smart. He will regret it for the rest of his life.

[jmowreader]

86. That would have worked REAL well...

1) SRO opens the door and screams "I'm going to come in and shoot you!"

2) Gunman puts in a fresh magazine and aims his rifle at the door.

3) When enough of the SRO gets through the door, gunman starts firing until the SRO is dead on the floor.

If you don't have enough people to enter en masse, it's better to stay outside and make sure no one else goes in. If he would have entered the building by himself, he'd be dead too.

[obamanut2012]

95. THis isn't the movies

[OregonBlue]

116. I didn't mean he should actually go inside. I just thought he should yell and fire his gun

inside. It might be enough to make the person with the weapon panic or at least stop what he was doing and seek some sort of cover. Obviously if he has a handgun and the guy has a kid killer 15 he should not attempt to actually take the shooter on.

[uponit7771]

74. Hang gun vs assault rifle ? I'm not 100 % blaming him off the top of my head

[Thrill]

75. So much for putting armed guards at schools

.

[Delmette2.0]

79. Most teachers are women.

But women are not deemed capable of making their own reproductive decisions from birth control (Holly Lobby) to abortion. We are uninformed, hormonal or hysterical. Yet, women are expected to control a room full of scared children or teenagers and defend them with a gun, possibly against a person they know as a former student or their neighbors child.

[Proud liberal 80]

81. No point in going in

There wasn’t an unarmed black man to kill.

[DallasNE]

82. We Should Arm The Teacher

Who can really blame the police officer armed with a pistol not going in against a shooter armed with an AR-15.

Fast forward to the teacher then let it sink in - around 80% of public school teachers are women. Is that who you really expect to take on an AR-15? That is just plain nuts.

[7962]

89. Well, I dont see why the sex of the teacher would matter. TRAINING would.

I know several women who can outshoot most any man, because they've been well trained.
We have thousands of well trained women in the military.
One of the 2 officers who stopped the Congress ball team shooting was a woman. And she was also up against an AR I believe.
if it was a test of strength it may be a different story.

But if this came to pass, no teacher should be armed unless they WANT to be.
I'd rather see regular security. Obviously this guy screwed up. he's not typical

[DallasNE]

109. Why It Matters

Is because it would upset the apple cart. Women would get out of teaching in droves. Yes, women have held up their end in combat - it is just not a profession they aspire to in large numbers as they prefer family friendly jobs like teaching.

[7962]

110. I dont see anyone from any group wanting to FORCE any teacher to be armed.

That would be totally ridiculous & dangerous.
Which, I guess, means trump will recommend it tomorrow

I still think the better compromise would be armed security that were NOT teachers. That way they could focus on the school grounds all the time.

[obamanut2012]

90. I am far from being a fan of cops, but they don't sign up to be killed

Sorry, I don't believe that. They sign up knowing they MAY be killed, but not that they have to go on a suicide mission. They are not military, although some them think they are.

This was PARKLAND. This was an older guy armed with a 9mm. A SRO. This wasn't a SWAT guy or even an active a patrol cop. And, again, I'm from here, and this was PARKLAND.

He should be fired for this, but I cannot call him a coward, I just can't.

[HopeAgain]

102. He took the job knowing he might have to put his life on the line

The gym teacher who did put his life on the line never signed up for that.

[Devil Child]

105. Coward police

If it was an unarmed black man I'm sure he would've charged in blazing away.

We are supposed to depend on the PD? They either kill us themselves or run away hiding when we are getting killed.

[PubliusEnigma]

106. Scared Guy With A Gun

All we need is some more of those.

[Calculating]

107. What a damn coward

When you take a job that requires you to carry a gun, you're taking on a certain responsibility. Namely that you might be called upon to use that gun some day in order to do your job. His job was to engage the active shooter and try to save some lives. If he wasn't ok with the possibility of some day needing to engage a school shooter then he should've got a job as a mall cop or something.

[Oneironaut]

111. The easiest thing to ever do is calling someone else a coward.

It's easy to say what someone else "should have done," not being in that situation. It wasn't your life on the line - there's no personal investment.

It's different when it's you and when it's actually happening. The truth is, given the same situation, nobody knows how they would actually act.

[NightWatcher]

112. Why was he under investigation? Why'd he resign?

He was a coward. I've performed personal and executive protection and I know how I've reacted.

[Oneironaut]

114. I would agree that he failed at his duty. All Im saying is, his reaction is very understandable.

Everyone would like to “know” how they’re going to react in a challenging situation, but the truth is, nobody does 100%. It’s not cowardice vs. bravery - it’s the human condition. It’s why the military tries to train the unpredictable fight-or-flight response out of their soldiers so that it’s much more likely they’ll stay and fight.

[Devil Child]

113. Hes a trained police officer

He signed up for this by virtue of wearing the badge.

Cops are supposed to head TOWARDS danger not AWAY from it.

[Oneironaut]

115. I agree, but see my response above. He no doubt failed in his duty,

but his failure is understandable.