You arm a teacher. You train the teacher. A gunman enters the school building.

[Mr. Ected]

You put down your lesson plan. You get your gun. You stalk the gunman. You effortlessly morph from teacher to police officer/marksman. What could happen next?

1. You shoot the gunman. You kill him. You now live with this memory for the rest of your life, but you're hailed as a hero.

2. You shoot at the gunman but miss. Your errant bullet takes down a student. You live with the guilt for the rest of your life.

3. You shoot the gunman and miss. He continues to mow down students. You live with the guilt for the rest of your life.

4. You shoot the gunman and miss. The gunman turns and shoots you. Welcome to America. You died a hero.


We want our teachers to parent our children when they're at school. We expect for them to impart knowledge and skill training regardless of whether the student wants it or the parents support it. We want them to discipline our children in lieu of doing it ourselves. And now we want for them to become a security force and protector of the kids as well?

I wouldn't sign up for that, not in a hundred years, and certainly not for the pittance you're offering me as compensation.

[nolabear]

1. Lawrence ODonnells statistic last night:

70% of shots fired by police officers miss their target.

[dchill]

3. Something A WISE PERSON would bear in mind.

Nobody else, though.

[leftieNanner]

34. Lawrence's A Block last night

was EPIC! He laid out every talking point and demolished each one. Arming teachers??? That's absolutely crazy! When I think about the incredible men and women who taught my daughters in elementary, middle school, and high school, I cannot imagine adding campus security to their long list of responsibilities.

We need people in the MSM to knock this down right now.

[PatSeg]

65. He was spot on last night

Even came up with things I hadn't thought of.

[bigbrother05]

40. Exactly, 5 POs fire 40 rounds at an unarmed person, there are 9 wounds, 1 fatal

What could possibly go wrong with 1 or more teachers confronting an armed gunman that has already killed?

[lapfog_1]

55. There was a video posted here some years ago

after a different mass shooting.

The video had 5 people (men and women) who had various degrees of gun "adeptness" ranging from "got safety training when I bought the gun and I target practice a few times a year" to "ex-military special forces". These people were attending a lecture on active shooter response. They had guns issued in the class that was the same weapon they owned. The guns were loaded with something like a paint ball rounds but the students didn't know that. During the week of lectures another "actor" entered the classroom and shot the teacher (fake but realistic looking) and then started to shoot at the students.

Every one of the students failed to take out the shooter with their paint ball round, even the ex-special forces guy.

I wish I could find it.

The conclusion was that only if you were constantly trained (like 20 hours a month or more ) in active shooter response would you even have a chance of taking out someone intent on shooting up a school (or movie theater or concert or nightclub or business celebration or ...)

[Thomas Hurt]

2. School shootings would no longer be BYOG...it is now a buffet, come in, take a gun, kill as you go.

[Heartstrings]

4. Just 4 of the

"What could possibly go wrong" scenarios.....

[Arkansas Granny]

5. What is the teacher supposed to do with the gun when they are not actively defending students

from shooters? Do they strap it to their hip, cowboy style, or do we install a gun safe in every classroom? What safeguards will be in place to assure parents that their children won't have access to a loaded gun? Will teachers who consent to be armed in the classroom receive hazardous duty pay? Will they be supplied with body armour?

Just a little something to think about.

[Mr. Ected]

7. That's the amazing thing about extraordinarily stupid ideas

They continue to spawn extraordinarily dire consequences.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. NRA will create concoctions of increasingly bizarre ideas; anything to increase gun "rights". . nt

[uponit7771]

8. +1, there was armed guard there at the school that day. The issue is access to weapons of war

[Arkansas Granny]

17. Weapons of war. Exactly. I asked a few gun "enthusiasts" at work why anyone would need

a bump stock or a firearm that could fire 100 rounds without reloading. No one had a good answer, just rants about Democrats want to take all guns away, only criminals would have guns, what about Chicago, blah, blah, blah. They need to turn off Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones and Sean Hannity.

[Glaisne]

36. No Democrat ha ever

advocated taking all the guns away, ever. For eight years the gun nut right had a non-stop meltdown over the belief that Obama was going to "take away our guns". They took every opportunity to say that. Yet, not once, during the entire eight years was not even the remotest thing done to "take away all the guns". Yet they still cry about that without a single solitary shred of evidence. They are lying nut jobs.

[Arkansas Granny]

44. There may be some on the left who want to take all guns away. There are some on the right who

advocate letting private citizens own any weaponry they can affords up to and including machine guns, rocket launchers and tanks. In both cases, these people are on the fringe and not to be taken seriously.

You're right about the "take away our guns" crowd. They were responsible for the sale of huge numbers of firearms.

[Marthe48]

46. Democrats taking away guns is a fear point at least since 1990

when Bill Clinton ran. There has been no gun seizure EVER in the U.S. Except maybe R.I.C.O. and drug busts. The insanity just goes on and on.

[dragonlady]

13. How long does it take the teacher to get the gun out of safekeeping

after the gunman breaks into the room?

[Arkansas Granny]

18. Exactly!

[Angry Dragon]

61. conceal carry I think is the idea

[Leghorn21]

6. Thanks, Mr. E - You have covered all possibilities except the one Rubio pointed out last night -

you’re a teacher with a gun, the police charge into this chaotic scenario, they see someone with a gun, and they shoot that person.

Who is a teacher.

wtf

[Mr. Ected]

9. I'm sure the good folks at DU can conjure up dozens of potential scenarios

And real life would supply even more.

I think we may have finally crossed the line as to how much we're willing to put up with in this NRA-rich environment. The tide has turned. Our youth is plugged in...and they'll vote.

It may not happen overnight, but we're witnessing history.

[Leghorn21]

10. ++++ agree with all you say, Mr. Ected. 100%. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. Rubio Mr.Magoo'ed himself into several moments of honesty last night.

Not sure if that was his intention or not--actually when it came to his comment on semi-automatic rifles I know it wasn't.

But deep down he knows the truth.

[SHRED]

11. Ban weapons of war

And regulate the hell out handguns and hunting rifles.

[Mr. Ected]

12. Abso-fucking-lutely

All of our constitutional rights are subject to reasonable regulation and limitation.

One must weigh out the right against the cost to society. It's a balancing act.

The 2nd Amendment is no different, in spite of the rhetoric from the right.

[SHRED]

15. Yep

[Sophia4]

33. Right.

[erronis]

38. ALL of the civilized countries that have taken this route have seen a DECREASE in gun deaths

Strange!

Take little Australia - home of real men and real cowboys (not Cruz/Rubio/) who cherish their freedoms. Have a wanton killing spree or two and nobody owns any weapon without a license and a very good reason.

Starting today, stop allowing all gun sales via licensed merchants while the laws are rewritten. Starting today, stop all ammunition sales, stop all online purchases of any weapon into the US. Starting today initiate a hefty gun buy-back. Get them off the streets, out of the homes, out of the schools!

Give all gun owners a fixed time (6 months?) to register their firearms and obtain licenses. Anyone not complying will be subject to a felony charge and will have to show reason for not complying (granny didn't know her hubby had a M16 in the closet.)

Bring foreign-agent registration violations against the NRA and any government official that accepted NRA bribes. Add some toilets and beds to Guantanamo and other federal prisons to hold the initial wave of charged.

[Glaisne]

42. K&R

upvoted
liked
recommended
supported
promoted
right on!
groovy

[obamanut2012]

14. Or, two more scenarios

The cops come in and shoot you.

You create crossfire and accidentally kill kids or other teachers, because YOU ARE NOT TRAINED FOR COMBAT!

[sarge43]

58. Even combat training and experience have never precluded friendly fire causalities. n/t

[quakerboy]

67. One more

Police are working through the building in search of the shooter.

They come to the third door on this hallway, of course concerned this is the room where they meet a hail of bullets.

Inside, there is a teacher. A very nervous teacher, with a gun, feeling the full weight of protecting the room full of children behind them.

And now the door is slammed open and a gun muzzle pops into view

Teacher reflexively shoots. Manages to hit just the right angle to kill the first officer through the door.

From there, Best case, everyone immediately realizes what happened and stops. The teacher has to live with having killed a police officer. The kids have to live with having seen someone die, and knowing their teacher is a killer. Without getting to the Other officers or the family. More likely, there's some confusion and more people are injured on either side. Worst case.. everyone starts shooting, creating a "friendly" cross fire between teachers and cops, with kids all around, in which both sides sustain additional wounds, and even deaths.

[spanone]

16. all teachers will be the first target of the gunman.

whether they have a gun or not

[Saviolo]

54. This right here.

Trump and the NRA are putting a huge big glowing light-up flashing target right on the backs of teachers. Teachers will be target #1 because they will be the ones 1) able to fire back and 2) able to provide a shooter with further weaponry and ammunition.

Just a casual first thought about the idea of arming teachers and it falls apart immediately.

[yodermon]

19. AND WHEN THE COPS SHOW UP THEY FUCKING SHOOT YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE A FUCKING GUN

[Lee-Lee]

25. Thats easily mitigated

If you are actually interested in reality, that has been worked out before in similar cases.

One easy example- in the locked case where the teacher has the gun is also a simple hat, toboggan style, in a specific color. The gun is also refinished in that color. Say a bright pink. This this isn’t known outside of LE and the school admin. When something happens the armed teacher dons the tobaggan and is easily recognized as one of the good guys.

That’s the same kind of technique used in areas where people have private armed security to coordinate with police. Say a person who is a big star with prior threats has armed security on staff at their home. Prearranged things like that are done and in place so if an incident happens the police know that the armed security there will be putting on blue hats or green vests.

It’s actually a total non-issue with just a little coordination that should be a part of any of that.

[Sophia4]

35. Time????

The teacher has split seconds to react.

Teachers are not killers who happen to be in a classroom. Teachers are people who have an extraordinary amount of empathy. They care. Their first thought, because of who they are, will be to help their students.

The NRA idea that teachers will reach for the hat and the gun is just bonkers. The teacher will try to protect the children and get them out of harm's way, not shoot the intruder.

The NRA is a bunch of sociopathic, uncaring creeps.

We saw that last night. Conniving, criminal minds -- dressed in nice, expensive, polite-looking clothes. That's the NRA. We don't need their "help."

We need the teachers' help.

[Lee-Lee]

49. Shouldnt you let teachers make yah choice individually instead of saying they are all the same

I readily will admit the idea of carrying a gun isn’t for most teachers. Probably not for 95-98%.

But I know some teachers for who it would be. One is my old Field Training Officer from when I was a deputy. He was injured on the job and had to leave LE due to a back injury. So he went to get his teaching certificate and is now a well loved high school history teacher.

Another retired as an Air Force pilot and now teaches JROTC.

Another is currently a Militaty Police NCO in the National Guard and also an IT technician for the schools.

All of them would be perfectly capable and I am certain willing. Two of them have expressed to me before their frustrations not being able to.

[kwassa]

60. no, teachers should never have the responsibility of defending students with guns.

This is simply another example of larger society shirking it's responsibility to protect students. This is the job of law enforcement.

It is also the job of society to regulate guns in a reasonable way, and there really is no reasonable argument for any citizen to own a semi automatic rifle with high capacity magazines designed to kill many people quickly. So configured, this is a military weapon, not a civilian weapon.

[Sophia4]

66. Most teachers are women, many of them small.

It is a terrible idea to expect people who are assigned the task of organizing their classroom in emergencies to ALSO go get a gun, unlock the cabinet the gun is in, take out the gun, put ammunition in it and then leave a class of 30 -40 children or teenagers to find a person with an AR-15 and shoot. That is absolutely crazy.

Absolutely crazy. The teacher's responsibility is to see that the students take care of themselves and each other.

It makes not sense to expect teachers to shoot guns. Chances are they will hit a student and not the intruder. I have visited schools in recent years. Having loaded guns in schools would just mean that an angry or disturbed student would not have to bring his own gun.

In fact, my father always used to say, "If someone wants to shoot me, he will have to bring his own gun," and I think that was a very lucid statement. At least in this case, the shooter couldn't simply turn the teacher's gun on the teacher.

It should be illegal to own or possess and AR-15 and a number of other weapons that tear holes in the organs of the body of the victim.

I would also like to see fewer guns in homes so that we have less domestic violence involving guns and fewer accidental gun deaths as well as fewer gun suicides.

Guns are not a necessary part of our lives in urban society today. If a farmer wants to have a shotgun so be it. No one needs or should have a military weapon like an AR-15.

[USALiberal]

50. I know you are a cop...

But FFS, cops now shoot for reaching toward a waistband where NO gun exists and kill people; you really think if someone rotates toward the cop he is going to check the gun color before shooting?
Most cops NEVER fire their weapon in 30 years of service, dont try to feed me that in a shooting situation they will notice gun color.

[Motley13]

20. teachers have to buy supplies for their classrooms now, will they have to buy their own bullets?

[gratuitous]

23. What do you mean?

None of this would cost any money! Firearms, ammunition, training, storage, and other costs ancillary to owning and maintaining a firearm doesn't cost anything, does it? Who in their right mind would propose such an incredibly expensive solution in a society where our schools are falling apart, teachers are badly underpaid, faculties are understaffed, class sizes are too big, and supplies always seem to be running short? That would just be madness! So, obviously, none of this would cost anything. Right?

[lostnfound]

21. Sam Zeif on Ari & Velshi: My teacher stood in front of me because she LOVED me.

He talked about how the teachers are there to teach, to mentor, to LOVE.
That asking them to carry a weapon was not a good idea.

He has been so articulate, his words so clearly connected to his heart, full of common sense.

[Mr. Ected]

22. I'll believe someone speaking from their heart one hundred times out of 100

As opposed to those who speak from their billfolds, which is all we hear from politicians and media sorts.

[Lee-Lee]

24. Your arguement applies to police exactly the same- so should they not act either?

All those issues are the exact same when cops respond and have to use force. So should they never do it either?

Of course being armed isn’t for everyone. Clearly based on your post it isn’t for you.

Not everyone has your mindset, reasoning or temperament. If I was there I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I had not done everything possible to end the attack. Even if I died trying. If my choices are to die trying to stop an attacker or cower not doing anything while they keep killing I would rather risk my life to protect the children, even if it costs me my life.

But that’s me. I realize not everyone is me. And not everyone has my mindset.

You should also realize that not everyone of your peers thinks like you as well.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

27. Fantasy time.

[Lee-Lee]

30. So yes or no?

[Mr. Ected]

31. No. Just no.

A teacher is trained to teach. A police officer is trained to police.

I find cross-training to be a highly defective national policy to ward against gunmen brandishing AR-15s in our schools.

As a Democrat, I believe my stance is in accord with most liberal thinking.

[Turbineguy]

26. They could also put in TV cameras

for entertainment value.

After all, it's a reality show.

[Initech]

28. People talk about the GOP's "schools to prisons" pipeline.

It's time we change that talking point. What the GOP really wants is "schools to coffins". I mean after all if someone is dead, you don't have to pay to take care of them, right?

[TheBlackAdder]

29. My 10th grade geometry teacher ice-picked a female teacher over 20 times, killing her.

.

He was plying teen girls with alcohol and drugs, having sex with them at his house too.

Another was dating students and got fired.


You just don't know what you've got, until you've got it.

.

[askyagerz]

32. Or suicidal kid walks in points gun at teacher

And now we have suicide by teacher. Two lives destroyed. Not to mention any witnesses

[lark]

37. Fucking craziest thing I've heard other than working with Russia to improve election cybersecurity.

Yeah, NRA, let' just make sure that the body count increases and let's deter good people from becoming teachers since they now have to be sharpshooters too. How utterly stupid. If killers on military bases can roam for a while killing people before they are stopped, and there are gun lots of gun experts around, and always some of the protectors kill others accidentally and almost always get killed themelves, WTF do these assea expect from teachers?

Answer - they want to sell more guns and that's all they care about, more students dying is 100% fine with them.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Oh how silly! People who shoot "bad guys" don't feel guilty or any traumatic stress at all.

Just ask any wartime veteran.

[world wide wally]

41. Trump and his ilk can talk all they want but bullshit is still bullshit.

I often thought of what if I had a gun in the wake of Columbine and I was teaching.
How could I possibly shoot a student? I wonder what an natural born coward like Trump would actually do if he was in a building when the bullets started flying and he had no Secret Service to save his fat ass.
It is easy to sit there and say "The teacher could have shot him". Or to backseat drive or to be a Monday morning Quarterback.
But what would you REALLY do when faced with the situation?

It's just a stupid idea that could only be supported by people who have never been in a classroom or killed someone.

[Vinca]

45. If a gunman knows the teacher is armed, he'll shoot the teacher first.

A handgun is no match for an AR in the best of circumstances. One of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of our dumbest president.

[Mr.Bill]

47. Imagine this scenario.

You are the teacher that is armed with a handgun. You hear shots out in the hallway. Lots of them. Complete chaos and screaming students running for their lives. Are you really going to step out into that hallway with a handgun and take on possibly multiple shooters with semi automatic or even fully automatic weapons with your handgun in a hallway full of panicked kids running in every directions?

Or maybe more wisely direct your class to a spot away from the door and windows while you lock the room down. Which option will save more lives? That question was already answered a few days ago.

[Oneironaut]

48. Right wing advocates for arming teachers are not sincere about it.

It’s a non-solution “solution” thrown out to prevent any pro-gun legislation from being passed. They know exactly what they’re doing.

[lapislzi]

51. Who is paying for these guns?

Firearms are not cheap. And I have a feeling the gun manufacturers won't be giving them away anytime soon. Doesn't fit their business model.

I suppose the onus will be on the teachers to arm and train themselves, because heaven forbid the "t" word get trotted out. You know the word we're not allowed to say.

[liberal N proud]

52. An AR against what? A hand gun?

Unless the teacher has a similar weapon as the "bad guy" there is little chance of taking them down.

[shayes51]

53. And valuable time is wasted

while the teacher decides whether to get her gun or lead her students to a more safe location.

[catbyte]

57. May I share this on other sites?

[Mr. Ected]

59. Of course!

[forgotmylogin]

62. TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.

TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.
TEACHERS ARE NOT SECURITY GUARDS.

[ybbor]

63. I am a High School teacher

I have never fired a gun in my life, nor do I have a desire to do so.

I do have the desire to inspire children. To instill a passion for learning from almost any experience they encounter in their lives.

I do not want to have to possibly shoot one, on purpose or by accident, as described above. Well, first of all it would never happen as I refuse to hold let alone fire a gun.

Am I no longer desirable to be a teacher because of my conscientious objection to arm myself?

As mentioned above, teachers do not get paid that well in the first place. (I know, "we only work for nine months", which is total BS) I personally do not want "Hazard Pay" to successfully perform my job to my utmost ability.

As someone tweeted earlier this week, I am paraphrasing here, "you already don't provide funding to get the supplies I need for my classroom, where does all the money for Glocks come from?"

Arming teachers is the stupidest idea ever thought of. (well maybe not, but it's right up there)

Another great analogy I heard is the idea that the principal chose to implement to deal with the problem of a student throwing rocks at other students on the playground was requiring all students to carry rocks in their pockets.

I am sick of this crazy gun culture in our country. Could the mentally challenged individuals the gun proponents speak of actually be the ones who own an arsenal of weapons in their homes? I find a lot of their rhetoric to be a lot of projection.

Thank you for letting me rant.

I need to get back to protecting err, instructing my students.

Do us educators all a favor and thank a teacher when you see one, we are doing a boatload of work and getting compensated for only a few. I'm not complaining, just stating facts.

Peace

[rgbecker]

64. Somehow we can keep guns out of boarding areas of Airports but not out of Schools?

WTF?

[missingm]

68. Most of the teachers would sign up for the bonus $$$ and would never confront an active shooter

To think otherwise is ridiculous. You cant force them to do it. But you will have armed a bunch of stressed out teachers.

A lot of military veterans wouldn't run into open fire without a plan. Each active shooter situation is different and impossible to prepare for with months of training, much less the few weekends the government could afford.