When (and if) the Parkland shooter enters a plea of "not guilty because of mental disease or defect"

[dflprincess]

and the right wing starts howling for the death penalty, will his attorney be able to use the tapes of Dana Loesch and other wing nuts calling him mentally ill in his defense?

[uponit7771]

1. Don't think he can now, his PD took that away minutes after his arraignment by saying

... he was sorry and remorse.

[Luciferous]

5. Yep she said he knew what he was doing and he was sorry.

[former9thward]

9. No, his PD who does not know anything about him can't judge his mental condition.

She is not a court recognized expert even if she was very familiar with him which she is not.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. No, they would have to use expert testimony

to the effect that he either didn't know the nature of the crime or that he could not distinguish right from wrong at the time it was committed. Florida follows the M'Naghten Rule (so does Minnesota), which makes the elements of an insanity defense very difficult to prove. Even Jared Loughner, the guy who shot Gabby Giffords, entered a guilty plea because of the risk that his planned insanity defense would be unsuccessful - and he was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. The Aurora, CO movie theatre shooter, James Holmes, did plead not guilty due to insanity and the judge accepted the plea. He was as mad as a box of frogs.

The fact that most of these guys will not be considered legally insane (which isn't really the same as medically insane) does make it a bit more difficult for the right-wing flying monkeys to claim that mental illness, not guns, is the problem.

[dflprincess]

3. Thanks for the explanation.

I should have figured M'Nagthten would make it difficult.

Didn't M'Naughten become the standard in the mid 19th century? It would seem it's long past the time to retire that standard and pay more attention to current definitions of mental illness and individual culpability.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Yes. A lot of states use the Model Penal Code standard,

which is not as stringent as M'Naghten. It says that a defendant can be found legally insane if he has a mental deficiency or defect that prevents him from understanding that he is committing a crime, or that renders him unable to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law. The old M'Naghten rule came from an 1843 jury instruction in a trial in which the defendant, M'Naghten, a paranoid schizophrenic who thought the government was persecuting him, intended to shoot the Prime Minister but killed his secretary instead. If you saw Victoria on PBS last week, that was the event on the show, but they didn't get it right.

[dflprincess]

6. I did see "Victoria" last week

and, now that you mention, I did know the story behind the rule, but I missed it completely last Sunday.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. They took a lot of dramatic liberties.

In the show, M'Naghten was furious about the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846 and wanted to get his revenge, but in reality he was batshit crazy and thought the government was persecuting him. Also, Drummond actually died in 1843, before the repeal of the Corn Laws. He didn't heroically stop a bullet intended for PM Peel; M'Naghten shot him in the back as he left Peel's house.

Drummond didn't die instantly but languished for another five days. Also, there's no evidence at all that he was gay and having an affair with Lord Alfred Paget. The real Lord Alfred was 20 years younger than Drummond, who was 51 when he died, and became Chief Equerry to the Queen only after Drummond’s assassination. The following year he married a wealthy heiress and had 14 children.

I like the series but it makes me wonder what else is inaccurate. One thing that's certain is that the real Victoria was short, dumpy, bug-eyed and generally as homely as a mud fence, unlike the actress who plays her.

[former9thward]

8. No.

If that defense is used the court will appoint mental health experts to give their opinion.