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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:18 PM Feb 2018

I have a Federal Firearms License.

At least I did until I let it lapse after buying all the guns I wanted. It's a Curio and Relics license. With it I could buy all manner of guns, up to and including 20mm anti aircraft guns from WWII. Hey, I could hunt airliners from my back yard! You'd be surprised what ten grand will buy.

Now, in my opinion, ain't nobody I know needs or should own a semi automatic gun of any kind. You may be an exception, you may live in Syria. I don't and don't know anybody who does.

Oh! But the AR-15 is America's gun, the most popular modern sporting rifle in the US. Sure it is 'cause you're too damn stupid to not be duped by the gun makers. Yeah, like suppressors that will save your hearing--hint, a $20 set of ear muffs work better than the $300 suppressor, before you spend another $300 to modify yer gun to accept it.

Since the mid '70s the gun industry has marketed to the home defense demography. Be afraid, be very afraid, the bad guys with guns are coming for you so you need a gun too!

Let's get down to brass tacks, shall we. If you want a gun to defend yourself an AR-15 or any hand gun ain't it. A hand gun is too hard to aim, particularly in times of stress. The FBI tells us that most shootouts take place at 20 feet and yet the kill rate for those shoot outs are almost too low to report. Hell, more kids are killed in their homes by the bullets that missed the miserable son-uv-a-bitch being shot at than actually hit the miserable son-uv-a-bitch being shot at.

Now for the AR-15, it is a very good close in weapon IF you are in command of the situation and you don't give a shit about collateral damage. If not it's just a long pistol with greater muzzle velocity that will penetrate interior walls and find all sorts of unintended targets. Shit, the best case scenario is you'll kill the refrigerator and yer flat screen TV. Meanwhile the intruder, who might be yer teenage kid coming home late or your wife making a sandwich just has the shit scared out of them and left a messy brown trail for you to clean up. Not to even consider what happens if your wife or kid survives the encounter--wouldn't want to be part of THAT conversation. Humm, can a gun be fitted anally? What does that holster look like?

So lets go back to the pistol. If you can hit a 6 inch target at 20 meters (66 feet) which is the international standard for short guns and small bore you get through the front door. Now make the room dark and use a pop up target and if you can hit a 6 inch target at 3 meters (10 feet) not knowing where the target will pop up good for you. Now do it when you're in a deep sleep and the adrenaline if flowing and you're half way scared as shit and thinking the worst possible scenario. Oops, sorry honey. Didn't know you wuz hungry. Sorry kid, you know you missed your curfew, right? You're in real trouble now young lady!

The other problem with most hand guns and all semi military style rifles (the manly black guns with all sorts of tactical add ons) is that secondary discharges are likely. No, almost assuredly predictable, because let's face it you're scared as shit and you're finger is inside the trigger guard and against the trigger and a gun just went off! The first round may have been controlled, the second not so much. Aw WTF it went in more or less the same direction as the first round. Close enough, right? Who needs a microwave anyway, it was next to the refrigerator that got killed when my first shot went from the foyer through the living room into the kitchen.

Take it from someone who is a qualified shooter, has had military training and has rationally thought about home defense. If you can't make a bad guy stop doing what he's doing with six shots you need to work on your skills. You don't need a fucking gun with more than 6 rounds.

If you are really concerned, the price of a quality gun will buy a monitored home security system. Shit, if you can't afford that a few bucks will buy solar powered security cameras with lights and cell phone connection to monitor your home when your're out.

There is no need or reason or constitutional justification for semi automatic firearms of any kind. They should be banned up to and including existing ownership. There are many options for home defense that don't include auto loading guns and interchangeable magazines that do not violate the 2nd amendment.

If you can't make a bad guy stop doing whatever he is doing with 6 shots, you need to work on your skills.


57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I have a Federal Firearms License. (Original Post) flamin lib Feb 2018 OP
Very well said RainCaster Feb 2018 #1
One of the times I actually respected G.H.W. Bush PJMcK Feb 2018 #5
Finally some gunsplaining that isn't just a justification HopeAgain Feb 2018 #2
There are reasons that people have guns. flamin lib Feb 2018 #8
Coupla dogs are even cheaper than that monitored system... TygrBright Feb 2018 #3
Damn! I missed the most effective deterrent for home defense. flamin lib Feb 2018 #6
Thumbs up to you and Bright! Hekate Feb 2018 #29
Small happy, yappy and loud dog, loud like you would not believe, is my security. Doesn't come cheap Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #36
You must be a flaming liberal!!!!!111!!! PJMcK Feb 2018 #4
Thank you kurtcagle Feb 2018 #7
Wish I'd said that. nt flamin lib Feb 2018 #10
"You don't need a fucking gun with more than 6 rounds." 3catwoman3 Feb 2018 #9
Ok. Good luck. Nt hack89 Feb 2018 #11
Its clear you are in the cold dead hands mode. N.t USALiberal Feb 2018 #15
No. Pure bemusement mode. hack89 Feb 2018 #16
Why are you scared of registration? Let me guess...... USALiberal Feb 2018 #19
Who said anything about being scared. hack89 Feb 2018 #22
LOL, none of the governments business. OK, I get it. Explains a lot. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #23
Here's your chance hack89 Feb 2018 #27
There is no downside for normal people. Unless paranoid. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #30
That is not an informed answer hack89 Feb 2018 #32
Nope, let me know why it worries you! No answer explains a lot. Paranoid? Libertarian? nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #38
So let me get this straight hack89 Feb 2018 #41
LOL, no answer. "feel good"? Bullshit, you actually think the Feds will take you guns away. FFS! nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #42
There will never be gun confiscation in America hack89 Feb 2018 #43
But I get you now. Thanks for that. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #44
No problem hack89 Feb 2018 #45
You and the NRA are in agreement 100%. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #46
So the NRA supports gun control? hack89 Feb 2018 #47
So gun control is status quo to you? Really? USALiberal Feb 2018 #49
We were discussing registration. hack89 Feb 2018 #52
Actually the ACLU is 100% in agreement with me. Nt hack89 Feb 2018 #48
Drunk driving used to be condoned. People smoked indoors in public places. hunter Feb 2018 #50
That's nice hack89 Feb 2018 #51
A simple pump-action 12-gauge is the most gun you need IMO NickB79 Feb 2018 #12
I don't support guns of any kind for home defense. Statistically they don't make sense. flamin lib Feb 2018 #14
Absolutely! DoctorJoJo Feb 2018 #21
K & R to infinity..... dhill926 Feb 2018 #13
Best home self defense weapon Motownman78 Feb 2018 #17
My gun nut neighbor was going to give me one of his guns for protection. LiberalArkie Feb 2018 #18
I'm 70 myself and have been a shooter most of my life. flamin lib Feb 2018 #20
Hmmm. Can I just get a laser pointer? Hekate Feb 2018 #37
Thank you.. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #24
Youre not buying any WWII 20mm cannons on a C&R alone, those are NFA weapons. Marengo Feb 2018 #25
Have you thought about getting a dog? world wide wally Feb 2018 #26
Well, thank you Hekate Feb 2018 #28
Bingo! Ding ding ding ding!!! Winner winner, chicken dinner.... mwooldri Feb 2018 #31
What guns do you own? samir.g Feb 2018 #33
What does it matter? nt flamin lib Feb 2018 #53
Just curious, since you brought it up. samir.g Feb 2018 #55
Curio and relic is a defined class of firearm. flamin lib Feb 2018 #56
As my 85 year old grandmother said when I was a kid... jimmil Feb 2018 #34
I ain't about to buy a gun for protection or whatever. 3Hotdogs Feb 2018 #35
Off topic and snarky. nt Hekate Feb 2018 #39
Don't see how ya figger. Nt flamin lib Feb 2018 #54
I'm a good shot with a rifle, but not so much with a pistol. PatrickforO Feb 2018 #40
I think the six round rule makes sense. TomSlick Feb 2018 #57

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
5. One of the times I actually respected G.H.W. Bush
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:37 PM
Feb 2018

When the NRA referred to the "jack-potted thugs" of the government, President Bush resigned from his membership in the NRA.

While there's not much to like about then President Bush, he did take a few social stances that merit respect and this was one of them.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
2. Finally some gunsplaining that isn't just a justification
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:31 PM
Feb 2018

to keep assault weapons in people's hands. Thanks!!!

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
8. There are reasons that people have guns.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:48 PM
Feb 2018

Self defense is the stupidest of them all.

They are, after all, history. Cannons are displayed on national monuments.

They are also industrial art, mechanical devices that evolve over time, that meet changing demand and serve to, for those with perception, point out the futility of being the best at killing. You never win that contest. You may get better at it but it is a contest that can't be won.

TygrBright

(20,762 posts)
3. Coupla dogs are even cheaper than that monitored system...
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:31 PM
Feb 2018

...and a whole lot better for your mental and physical health.

Best combination: Small, nimble, and noisy, with a bigger, authoritative, quiet buddy.

helpfully,
Bright

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
6. Damn! I missed the most effective deterrent for home defense.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:40 PM
Feb 2018

A small yappy dog will do more for home security than any gun.

And it keeps the bad guys out before they steal stuff.

Plus mine cuddles all night long . . .

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
36. Small happy, yappy and loud dog, loud like you would not believe, is my security. Doesn't come cheap
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:08 PM
Feb 2018

though, needs daily maintenance and expenses.

PJMcK

(22,037 posts)
4. You must be a flaming liberal!!!!!111!!!
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:34 PM
Feb 2018

To be absolutely clear: I AM AGNOSTIC ABOUT GUNS.

There are more guns in the United States than there are people. Let that sink in... and rot for a moment or two.

But guns will not go away. I don't own any and I don't want to shoot any. Your Milage May Vary.

Regardless, if you want to own guns legally, there's nothing I can do about it. Have at it, Hoss. I don't care as long as you're legal and careful.

The people that disturb me fall into two categories:

NUMBER ONE:
Crazy nut jobs who are dangerous. Do I really have to identify the people I'm talking about?! If you question my definition then you probably don't know what I'm writing about.

NUMBER TWO:
Powerful forces who know exactly what they are doing to our country but they don't care because they are putting profits ahead of morality.

By the way, flamin lib, your post deserve lots of DU Recs.

kurtcagle

(1,604 posts)
7. Thank you
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:43 PM
Feb 2018

I think this was well said. I've shot both guns and arrows (which actually have much the same guidelines attached to them for safety, not surprising given that a high tension bow can do a lot of damage) at ranges, and overall think that if you are responsible with them, they are relatively safe. The problem I see is that too many people fail to understand that with freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility to be licensed and registered, the responsibility to keep them out of the reach of children and those who aren't, the responsibility to ensure that they do not become used for criminal activity. They are not fashion accessories. They are weapons, and should be treated as such.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
16. No. Pure bemusement mode.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:56 PM
Feb 2018

I support most gun control with two exceptions - AWB and registration. The OPs "cool story bro" post just struck me as funny.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
19. Why are you scared of registration? Let me guess......
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:21 PM
Feb 2018

they will send armed FBI agents to your house and collect your guns?? LOL, please tell me you really worry about this.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
22. Who said anything about being scared.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:36 PM
Feb 2018

It is simply none of the government's business, especially since no one can explain how registration will stop mass killings. Do you know of a single mass killer that is unknown and walking free? Adam Lanza's rifle was registered.

Canada abandoned their long gun registry because it was extremely expensive, full of errors and they were unable to show it impacted crime in any way.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
32. That is not an informed answer
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:05 PM
Feb 2018

How will it stop mass shootings? How would it have stopped Sandy Hook? Las Vegas? VA Tech?

Let's see something more from you than bumper sticker platitudes? Convince me you have thought this out.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
41. So let me get this straight
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:23 PM
Feb 2018

I oppose a feel good law that does nothing more than make you feel good and superior and I am the one with an issue?

You are a true piece of work. A year from now when gun control in America is still a raging dumpster fire take a look in the mirror for one of the reasons.

You will never pass gun control without the votes of gun owners. Think about it.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
42. LOL, no answer. "feel good"? Bullshit, you actually think the Feds will take you guns away. FFS! nt
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:33 PM
Feb 2018

f

hack89

(39,171 posts)
43. There will never be gun confiscation in America
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:36 PM
Feb 2018

It is delusional to think that.

You are the one without an answer. Are all your beliefs so shallow and lacking in intellectual rigour. You can't explain how registration will stop mass shootings can you.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
52. We were discussing registration.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:00 PM
Feb 2018

I oppose it and you are not serious about it therefore no change.

hunter

(38,317 posts)
50. Drunk driving used to be condoned. People smoked indoors in public places.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:54 PM
Feb 2018

Guns are a serious public health issue, same as smoking, same as drunk driving.

Gun fetishes are socially unacceptable. This nation will be a much better place when its gun culture is dead.

Parents, children, spouses, boyfriends and girlfriends, friends, and communities can all apply pressure to separate fools from their guns.

The law will follow.

Gun love is dangerous and disgusting.

Welcome to the 21st century.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
51. That's nice
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:58 PM
Feb 2018

Feel better? Nothing will change. You know it, I know it. I have been on DU for 12 years. Same arguments, same declarations that things are changing yet in the real world gun control falls further behind.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
12. A simple pump-action 12-gauge is the most gun you need IMO
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:53 PM
Feb 2018

Fire reduced-recoil buckshot to reduce wall penetration issues and make shooting more accurate. 6-10 rounds in the tube magazine. The weapon needs to be pumped after every shot, so secondary discharges are eliminated.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
14. I don't support guns of any kind for home defense. Statistically they don't make sense.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:31 PM
Feb 2018

If you feel the need for one this is probably the best option. The sound of racking a round into the chamber is one that a child in the womb recognizes.

The aftermath is not something anyone should have to see, or clean up.

Hard decision and one that can't be unmade.

 

DoctorJoJo

(1,134 posts)
21. Absolutely!
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:26 PM
Feb 2018

Just the sound of racking a 12-gauge will scare the shit out of any intruder. And #4 buckshot and an improved cylinder choke will cover any aiming issues and do plenty of damage, w/o killing your neighbors. I have one right under the edge of my bed!

 

Motownman78

(491 posts)
17. Best home self defense weapon
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:01 PM
Feb 2018

Is a 20 gauge pump-action shotgun. The noise the racking of the round makes causes every man to wet himself. This is instinctive from a very early age.

LiberalArkie

(15,719 posts)
18. My gun nut neighbor was going to give me one of his guns for protection.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:02 PM
Feb 2018

Shotgun or pistol he did not care. He is 19 and I am 70 and he worries about me living out in the sticks. I asked him wouldn't a red laser pointer be just as good. If I was to buy a gun it would be a Glock with the laser sighing device built in, but getting back to the original part. He looked at himself and thought of the red laser bouncing across his chest and face and thought how fast he would be able to run if that happened.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
20. I'm 70 myself and have been a shooter most of my life.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:25 PM
Feb 2018

I was actually trained as a sniper when the Army didn't have a sniper program. Sniper is a bad/good word depending on the time. You're either a hero or a slimy snarking coward that kills from hiding depending on the time. I was a snarking coward cause I would be shooting people in DC if needed.

Pistols are a bad idea. Short barrel shotguns might be better. Threats with laser pointers not very good. If you need to threaten you need be ready to kill.

Saw a window sticker in a local gun store, "NOTHING IN THIS HOUSE IS WORTH DIEING FOR" which also means that "NOTHING IN THIS HOUSE IS WORTH KILLING FOR".

The choice is yours, think about it and plan accordingly.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
37. Hmmm. Can I just get a laser pointer?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:13 PM
Feb 2018

A funny-but-now-disgraced comedian once had a routine about how he figured learning "the karate yell" would be sufficient self-protection, because if he sounded fierce enough it would scare off would-be attackers as they would think he actually could take them apart.

Since I am small, female, and physically inept, it sounded like a plan to me.

mountain grammy

(26,624 posts)
24. Thank you..
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:40 PM
Feb 2018

I'm sick of the defense of the indefensible.. All you gunners with your semi autos can shove em up your ass.

Hekate

(90,714 posts)
28. Well, thank you
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:53 PM
Feb 2018

The few members of my family that own firearms don't brag about it, don't boast about it, and keep them locked in a safe well away from the kids. I only found out my SIL had taught her sons from a prior marriage to hunt when she offered me some frozen venison. Etc.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
31. Bingo! Ding ding ding ding!!! Winner winner, chicken dinner....
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:04 PM
Feb 2018

"If you can't make a bad guy stop doing whatever he is doing with 6 shots, you need to work on your skills. "

EDUCATION and TRAINING is, in my opinion the BEST GUN CONTROL we can have.

* You wouldn't get operated on by a surgeon without a medical license.
* You wouldn't buy your prescription drugs from an unlicensed pharmacist
* You wouldn't let a person drive a big rig truck without a commercial driver's license.
* You wouldn't buy stocks and bonds from an unlicensed stockbroker.
* You wouldn't let your children be taught by a non-qualified teacher.

So why the heck do anyone think they can operate a GUN without the required EDUCATION and TRAINING?

I like to believe that the law enforcement professionals actually do firearms training. I'm a useless shot, I also have mental health issues and there's other reasons why I personally will not have a gun. So if I need someone with a firearm to take out a "bad guy" then a cell phone calling 911 is probably more effective than me doing it myself. Since I live next door to an elementary school I can assure you if I mention "man with gun" and my address with "Next to XXX elementary school", law enforcement are going to be there at my home PDQ.

Now yep, there are places in America where it would be more effective having a gun than calling 911. An urban, or suburban environment isn't it.

Do I think firing off a gun at a range or other controlled environment could be fun? Heck yeah! But I'd wanna leave the gun at the range. I don't trust myself. but that's me.

While I believe the UK approach was kind of extreme, the approaches taken to gun regulations after Hungerford and Dunblane has meant that since 1996 there has been ZERO mass school shootings and only one mass shooting (2012, Cumbria).


flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
56. Curio and relic is a defined class of firearm.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 10:56 PM
Feb 2018

Includes guns over 50 years old with exceptions specified by he BATF&E.

jimmil

(629 posts)
34. As my 85 year old grandmother said when I was a kid...
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:06 PM
Feb 2018

As I was marveling at the gun she kept under her mattress, "Are you going to shoot somebody breaking in your window Gammaw?" She quickly responded, "Only if he is coming in the window I'm climbing out." Pretty good advice then and now.

3Hotdogs

(12,391 posts)
35. I ain't about to buy a gun for protection or whatever.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:06 PM
Feb 2018

If I did buy a gun for protection, I would buy a 10 gauge pistol. Good reasoning?

PatrickforO

(14,578 posts)
40. I'm a good shot with a rifle, but not so much with a pistol.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:19 PM
Feb 2018

But...I don't own a gun. Never have. I feel uncomfortable having one in the house, because as you say, what if I've just snapped into wakefulness, the lights are out and I am scared to death? What would keep me from emptying the magazine at the nearest noise? And God help me if that noise was someone I love who belongs in my home.

No, I don't anticipate needing a gun.

That said, the constitutional crisis this nation is facing right now is fricking scary. I hope the 'not anticipating' owning a gun works out for me going forward.

TomSlick

(11,100 posts)
57. I think the six round rule makes sense.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:35 PM
Feb 2018

On early fall mornings, I can hear rifle shots from deer hunters across the river from town.

If I hear one shot, Bubba got him a deer. If I hear two shots, Bubba probably got him a deer. If I hear more than two shots, then I know there is probably a wounded deer running as far as it can before it bleeds out. Bubba may find it but maybe not. Either way, the poor beast died slowly.

If you can't hit what you're aiming at with six shots, you ought not be firing the weapon. The only reason for a weapon to own a firearm that fires more than six rounds is to kill a lot of people in a short period of time.

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