Concerning the Gillibrand discussion. If we had ALL known what Mueller just revealed

[shraby]

to all with the indictments, before the Franken question came up, it's entirely possible many more people would have thought different than they did at the time.

Different considerations quite often produce different decisions. Cut them some slack.

Everyone here knows what the gop will do with ANY improprieties committed by the Dems, and that's an understatement. To try to get in front of their mantra is not a crime.

Now that the story is out about what the bots did, give the Dems a chance to say what they think about it.

[CentralMass]

1. Will the same break and consideration that they gave Franken do?

[kcr]

2. I might if I wasn't constantly hit with "We have to move on!"

People need to realize this shit is going on so they can be more careful about critically analyzing things in the future. I'm sorry but I'm not going to cut them slack on this because it's too important. We were right to question the bullshit but no one listened.

[JI7]

11. and it will be those who most attacked and pushed the Franken BS while defending

right winger bigots that will call for us to "move on" .

[Skittles]

14. THANK YOU

[Hortensis]

23. What's important is to look for and say no to agitprop.

If the subject's a wedge issue, they're here lighting fires and throwing rocks both ways.

Investigate the topic, think about what was learned, then react. Agitprop's really stupid stuff meant to hit at gut level. It doesn't work on people who act smart.

My reaction wasn't to wonder who's stuffing new kindling under this topic. Russians or Republicans or both. I'm wondering what bigger plan it's part of.

[kcr]

30. Absolutely, but the who can be important too. It's often the tip-off.

As was the case for the Franken story because of the first accuser's connections and the fact that Roger Stone knew the story was going to break the day before. Their defense that you have to believe all women so don't look behind the curtain! was just too convenient.

[pressbox69]

3. Franken got wacked

by the republiklan mob. Pay back for the way he hammered racist Jeff Sessions.

[CentralMass]

5. He also seemed less the favorable on letting big Pharma maintain its high drug prices.

[marylandblue]

4. I am more upset with Gillibrand than I was before

Before, I just looked at Al Franken as an unfortunate political casualty. Now she's an unwitting Russian tool. We need someone smarter for Pres.

[brush]

7. Yep, she's not smart enough. We just had an intelligent pres. let the repugs to go with dummies...

like W and trump.

We want a smart president (unfortunately the country blew it's chance in 2016 to have it's most qualified president yet)

[betsuni]

12. I just saw Stephen Colbert's Gillibrand interview.

To his question if it's strictly a Republican problem or are there Democrats beholden to the NRA as well, she said, "I think that's a problem" and then went on to say we must listen to the children. Vague. I don't know, I thought it was mostly a Republican problem of receiving millions from the NRA. Then Colbert said she had gone from an NRA score of A to an F (she has evolved?).

Colbert asked about Franken. She still thinks the accusations are credible and kept repeating "It's not okay" and what about the children.

Not impressed.

[Cha]

16. Thank you for that report from

Colbert's interview, betsuni.

It's not like she could have second thoughts now, even after more facts have come out about who was behind his "takedown"..

Not the way she led the charge and throwing President Clinton in there, too.. after she was fine with him when he was helping her get elected.. but, oh now it's time to stab him in the back?

How an Alt-Right Bot Network Took Down Al Franken

snip//

While everyone has been focused on Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election to support Donald Trump, the Franken takedown originated in—and was propelled by—a strategic online campaign with digital tentacles reaching to, of all places, Japan. Analysts have now mapped out how Hooters pinup girl and lad-mag model Leeann Tweeden's initial accusation against Franken became effective propaganda after right-wing black ops master Roger Stone first hinted at the allegation.

More..
http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-trump-franken-mueller-twitter-810355

[mythology]

29. And the source for that Newsweek article is garbage

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/19/bots-force-al-franken-resign/

Unhackthevote is a joke. The basic facts in the article are wrong. That is a repeated habit from Mike Farb. I don't get the refusal of Franken's defenders to acknowledge that he has apologized for how he has treated women. Eight different women came forward and had their claims examined by reporters.

[kcr]

31. If all eight women had their claims vetted by reporters, it should be easy for you

to provide the links.

But you won't be able to because it isn't true. That's funny coming from someone claiming an article is garbage.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. Awful interview... she sure didn't do herself any favors.

[4now]

6. He should have fought but he chose not to

Its time to move on.

[CentralMass]

10. Thzt sounds like a talking point.

Last edited Wed Feb 21, 2018, 03:10 PM - Edit history (2)

[Skittles]

13. no it is NOT time to move on

when someone's career is trashed with help from a foreign enemy, THAT IS A FUCKING PROBLEM

[Raster]

28. No, it's not time to move on....

...maybe for you, not for me.

[LanternWaste]

8. After watching John Lewis get sacrificed to the tin god of political purity eighteen months ago

After watching John Lewis get sacrificed to the tin god of political purity eighteen months ago, I began realizing that cults of personality are far more popular, and many, many minds far less rational than I would have ever imagined.

And as posts on DU about both Franken and Gillibrand are almost entirely predicated on personality rather than rational process, I've almost reached the point of not giving consideration to any of them.

Bumper-stickers and fortune cookies are the most insightful and substantive analysis we have going for us in regards to this narrative.

[oberliner]

15. This is so well-written

You really have a way with words - we are lucky to have someone like you posting on this site, elevated the level of discourse. I always look forward to reading your posts.

And I agree with you that it maybe is time to pass over any posts about G or F.

[aikoaiko]

17. Sacrificed? It appeared to me he won the day.

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Well said!!! nt

[oberliner]

9. Not sure it's a great idea to have these arguments again now

[Drahthaardogs]

19. Maybe if there had been an investigation like Franken

Requested, he would still be here.

Vigilante justice is never good.

[malaise]

20. Some of us did post beware of bots on several threads

Ah well

[demmiblue]

21. No. n/t

[Hortensis]

22. Shraby, Russian agitprop helped develop what was reasonable

disagreement over how the accusations against Senator Franken should be handled into a flaming wedge issue. With their help, people who'd been eager to support victimized women shockingly didn't care about evidence, while zealotry on the other side called for "primarying" 3/4 of our Democratic senators. (Where'd THAT idea come from!) I agree that that astonishing development makes a lot more sense now.

However, I do not believe those inclined to be excitable on either side would have behaved much differently if they'd known about the indictments. It's a habit thing, not so quickly controlled.

What I am wondering is why in the past week or so this subject has resurfaced more than once. I assume it's showing up elsewhere and that's why. Could Russian and/or Republican agents have been instructed to pump this issue up once again, you know, use it to try to burn up some forums like this one?

Senator Franken has returned to private life, Senator Tina Smith has been sworn in, and she and our Democratic senators are busy doing what they do.

And voters are giving Democratic candidates electoral victories in special elections across the nation.

I suggest we say no to agitprop.

[betsuni]

25. Isn't the reason this subject is in the news is the recent Newsweek article about it?

[Hortensis]

26. NO. The reason is the explosion of alt-right agitprop

using that one article for kindling. Last time I did a google search I couldn't even find the Newsweek article, displaced by the agitprop blizzard. I hadn't pulled up Newsweek itself, thinking it'd be on the first screen, and I ended up opening one of the right wing propaganda sites to get a link to the article.

Btw, Franken was reportedly taken down mostly by alt-right bot attacks, not so much Russia. Of course Russia has infiltrated the alt-right here and no doubt did some fanning from St. Petersburg, but the current attack looks to be a continuation of the domestic alt-right's successful operation.

(Right now Russia is all over the Parkland murders, setting pro-gun, anti-student fires. So anyone wanting to tell some scumbag right-winger off over this should first find out if he's actually human.)

[moondust]

24. Gillibrand was on Colbert's show Tuesday night.

He asked her about the Franken thing. She said she believed the eight "credible" accusations. He should have asked her how she knew they were "credible" and not RW smears hyped by bots, similar to the despicable smears against the Parkland kids, but he didn't.

Learned that as a congresswoman she had an "A" rating from the NRA which was downgraded to an "F" in 2010 after being elected to the Senate and changing her position. Sorta Jekyll and Hyde-ish.