An aha moment!!! The focus on Gillibrand is beginning to feel like...

[LAS14]

... someone is fomenting dissension. I sure do disagree with her decision to go after Franken. But I don't see a reason to make her a target of a lot of discussion. Might we be playing into someone's hands here?

I was surprised to see in a post today that 32 democrats signed on with her to ask for Franken's resignation. I knew, of course, that she wasn't the only one, but this does make it look a little strange that her name is so frequently mentioned, even if she was a leader.

[msongs]

1. IMO the purpose of DU is to talk about democrats and what u like/dislike about some of them

and which ones u prefer and don't. and maybe even why.

[LAS14]

6. I agree. Let's talk about how we disagree with her decision....

... but not post things like "It will be a bad day for Gillibrand." Is the difference clear?

[matt819]

10. Point taken, but. . .

we're at the point where we have to question where the antagonism is coming from.

Look, I disagreed with Gillibrand and her posse taking down Franken. And I wish Franken hadn't resigned. But even though it was questionable whether his behavior fell into the inappropriate category, he took the high road for the good of the party. And kudos to him for doing so. And, yes, he will be missed. But his departure eliminated what would undoubtedly have been an unending distraction, fomented by the republicans, with and/or without the Russian trolls sustaining it.

So, here we have Sen. Gillibrand having established her #Metoo bonafides, for better or worse. And, for better or worse, she's emerging as a Democratic leader. So, what's the next step in the republican/Russian troll playbook. She has to be brought low - shamed, her integrity questioned, he leadership skills doubted. Sure, there are pro-Franken democrats are who happy to see that happen. And that makes her fair game for the Russian trolls and their witting or unwitting RW army.

So, sadly, we do have to question these things. Name any Democratic leader and presidential front runner, and we're going to see this crap resume.

[LanternWaste]

12. And maybe even the source of particular narratives and arguments, as well

" and maybe even why..."

And maybe even the source of particular narratives and arguments, as well. Let's not pretend those are wholly irrelevant in our quest to appear clever by half.

[flibbitygiblets]

26. IMO the purpose of DU is party unity

not purity tests. I'm not sure about Franken decision either, but

1. She wasn't the only one calling for his head. Why is she being singled out?

2. The ends may have justified the means. Moore might have been voted into congress if R's could engage in whataboutism. The blue wave might not be quite so monumental right now.

I hate Rs with every fiber of my being. But they stick together, and that's a big part of why they win (that and cheating). We can fine tune our choices once we're in control again.

[WhiteTara]

30. I had a post hidden for that very thing.

[hlthe2b]

2. nah.. those who feel she made a mistake aren't going to come to that conclusion just because

of this news (which many of us already suspected). However this affects Gillibrand's or any of the other Senators who signed on to push Franken out, is already "baked in" to current viewpoints IMO.

I see positive in that we will be more hypervigilant when one of ours is the focus of a "rush to judgement".

[no_hypocrisy]

3. No, Gillibrand make a horrendous mistake by not advocating for Franken to get due process

before she made her opinion known. She has to own this one.

[LAS14]

7. Right, but owning it doesn't mean becoming a target...

... for a lot of over the top attacks. There's a difference.

[vi5]

4. I can only speak for myself....

...I live in the NY area and have been familiar with her since she was a conservative Blue Dog, who conveniently changed when she wanted to run for Senate, and who then became a big Clinton booster in order to curry favor for her seat, who then threw him/them under the bus when it suited her, and then rinse and repeat with Franken, and now using the spotlight from that to further promote herself at every turn.

Even before the Franken thing I disliked her.

The focus on Gillibrand is because she is putting herself out there at the forefront at every possible turn. Other Senators when asked may have said Franken should resign, but she took it up on herself to lead the charge and given her history of opportunism it just rubs me the wrong way.

[PatSeg]

15. Yes

This isn't about one bad decision, more the final straw in a series of poor political choices.

[leftstreet]

5. The dissension was fomented when Franken was railroaded

[workinclasszero]

16. That's for damn sure!

[Generic Brad]

8. I'm focused on Trump's crimes, the NRA, and Russian interference

Gillibrand getting suckered like so many others is not the issue. Eye on the ball, people.

[PatSeg]

13. I can keep my eye on more than one ball at a time

Now, more than ever, we need to demand and expect the best of our politicians, and that would include apologizing when they make a mistake, something Barack Obama did quite eloquently. Doubling down on a bad decision will not get anyone in the Democratic party closer to the White House. Inexplicably it often works for republicans though.

[LAS14]

23. But what about..... the other 31 democrats? nt

[PatSeg]

25. A few have expressed regrets

I would like to see more speak out. In the meantime however, Gillibrand led the effort to get Franken to resign without due process.

When asked last week if she had regrets, she said the only thing she would change about urging Franken to quit is that “I might have done it sooner."

[LexVegas]

9. The only one I see blamed is Gillibrand...hmmm...

[Squinch]

11. I disagree with her about Franken. I will vote for her when she is up for re-election.

[Binkie The Clown]

14. As soon as any dissent or discussion is branded "fake news" or "interference by outsiders",

and meant only to divide us, then "they" have won. We will have become paralyzed and unable to discuss our own problems and shortcomings among ourselves.

I can disagree without "playing into 'someones' hands." I, for one, will not forget and forgive what Gillibrand did to Franken, and I resent the implication, however oblique, that because of that I'm the tool of a Russian bot.

[LAS14]

24. What about the other 31 democrats? nt

[Egnever]

17. More like an ahahahahah moment

[IluvPitties]

18. I think the problem started when she was the first Democratic senator to throw him under the bus...

[NCTraveler]

21. Franken was the first Democratic Senator to throw him under the bus. nt.

[OnDoutside]

33. Historical revisionism at its finest.

[NCTraveler]

34. Not in the least. nt.

[Quixote1818]

19. Agree. nt

[NCTraveler]

20. There was a post today attacking Gillibrand.

Said person has dozens of posts attacking her over the last month alone. They are clearly here to create division. Most of their ops attacking her were completely void of any real argument. Transparent is transparent.

[Blue_true]

22. Her advocacy against sexual abuse that is not properly investigated,

made her a leaders by default. Did she have a fast trigger? Maybe, but given her history, she may have concluded that not acting fast and forcefully may allow military brass to ignore complaints of sexual abide that female recruits and officers file, or executives to ignore complaints from female underlings. I don't know what her thoughts were, but unlike some, I don't jump to a conclusion that her actions were politically motivated.

[Bleacher Creature]

27. I like her and would happily support her in the future.

I also say that as someone who didn't want Franken to go, and who's been a fan of his for decades (particularly the Air America days).

First off, I don't believe that she alone decided to call on Franken to resign. I think the party made that call - led by Schumer - and she was asked/volunteered/whatever to be the first based on her history of taking the lead on these issues.

Second, I'm pretty sure there was no malice at Al. I think that the Semate Democrats did what we as Democrats do best - panic and overreact.

[TheDebbieDee]

28. Are you suggesting that Sen Gillibrand is being "Hillaried"?

[LAS14]

29. Precisely. Sure, if one wanted to, one...

... could make a case for Hillary having made mistakes surrounding the e-mail issue. But nothing to warrant the obsessive media coverage. I personally was angry at Gillibrand's stance on Franken. But there were 31 other people that I was equally mad at.

[Demit]

32. You think that 32 people can spontaneously & simultaneously come up with a decision?

I think it's more likely that one person has an idea, a desired goal, then goes around and persuades others to sign on. And there are all sorts of reasons why people are persuaded to go along with other people's brainchild. Lotta horsetrading in Congress.

[wishstar]

31. Al, his wife and daughter were very clear last year that he was not running for President

The repeated claims that Gillebrand and other Senators were motivated by jealousy over his popularity and wanted to get rid of him because he was competition for 2020 Presidential run has little basis in reality since Al and his wife and daughter were very outspoken several times last year that he was definitely not running. Certainly consideration for his wife and family were also a large part of his decision to step down rather than enter a protracted fight against the allegations.


Of course his Senate colleagues were concerned about collateral political damage to them and all Democrats by the allegations dominating the news for a prolonged length of time and they were unwilling to explain or defend him in the current "me too" atmosphere. But all the vitriolic accusations of backstabbing over 2020 Presidential race seems over-the-top.

[regnaD kciN]

35. Oh, ffs...

Is this what it's coming down to, now? "If you disagree with my positions, it's not because you have reasonable grounds for doing so, it's only because you're being unwittingly manipulated by Russian bots to sow dissension!" Because, if that's the new mindset, goodbye to any possibility of rational political debate whatsoever.

Maybe I'll just go hide out in the photography group from now on. Because, if the "no, YOU'RE being manipulated by the Russians!" game catches on, special interest groups are going to be the only reasons for DU to exist in the future.