How do I combat this kind of bullshit?

[abbeyco]

Yammering from some dopes on FB about guns - and it's their standard misdirection it seems to me. Any ideas how to respond:

"Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal and inalienable (they cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws). ... The concept of natural law is related to the concept of natural rights

If you spend a few minutes reading our founding documents you will recall that our nation was founded on the concept of “inalienable rights endowed by their creator” and that the bill of rights was written to remind the Federal government of that. The government does not create rights it takes them away, in theory, at the consent of the governed."

[NCTraveler]

1. You don't. nt.

[Turbineguy]

2. You might ask:

"Do you have any children?"

[DURHAM D]

3. If you met these people in a bar you would just

walk away because you would recognize that all they want is attention and you won't provide it.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. "A well-regulated militia ... "

Remind them of the part they ignore.

[maxsolomon]

9. Bingo

I don't see any regulation.

[KPN]

5. Yeah, you don't. They are incapable of

rational thought on this and likely many other subjects.

[blogslut]

6. Disengage

Unfriend and adjust your settings to only allow posts from friends.

[Horizens]

7. Life Not Guns

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Guns are not listed as an unalienable right. Life is.

[Nwgirl503]

19. Had this discussion over the weekend on FB

Someone wrote, after examples of drivers licenses, drug laws, etc that those things are not Constitutional rights. I pointed out that the Declaration of Independence was written 3 years before the Constitution and a full 15 years before the Bill of Rights with its Amendments (which, by definition are changes or additions) was fully ratified. The right to LIFE supersedes the right to bear arms. PERIOD.

I also pointed out that the reason drivers licenses weren't an idea was because automobiles weren't even a spark in someone's eye at the time these documents were written. Much like the weapons that are currently available could not have been imagined by our founding fathers, nor were many technological advancements society lives with today.

Plus, implementation and interpretation of the Constitution have been taken on by our court systems for generations, and will continue to be. People seem to think that because there hasn't been an Amendment in 25 years that the Constitution is a static, black and white document. It's not. Constitutional law is an on-going, ever-changing area of study and experience.

[Nevernose]

23. There are hundreds of regulations on the 1st amendment

Freedom of the press? Better get a business license before you sell those advertisements. Some states you’ll need to get your reporters press passes. Slander and libel. All sorts of shit you can’t publish or say or promote.

Freedom of religion? Hope you’ve got a minister’s license before you file the paperwork to open your registered place of worship.

Freedom of assembly? There’s a stack of paperwork you need to fill out before hand. Plus the expensive liability insurance. And a list of places and times in which it is and is not acceptable to assemble.

[abbeyco]

22. Thanks - this seemed to shut them up!

I've seen this kind of misdirection and crap and frankly, when they run out of arguments or points, all of the obtuse stuff comes out to try to start this circular conversation. Thankfully I have a decent amount of logic and don't let these punks fool me.

[Demsrule86]

8. Call it bullshit which it is.

[hack89]

10. I do believe in universal rights but not for guns.

That being said, in our legal system, nothing trumps enumerated constitutional rights so they do enjoy a special status above even universal rights.

[ornotna]

11. There's nothing natural

About guns. God wants everyone to have a gun?

[PatSeg]

12. Rights

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The first and most important I would say is LIFE. Without it, no other rights matter.

[Blue_true]

13. Use the phrase "the consent of the governed".

Point out that very seldom can decisions be made by unanimous consent. Typically a decision come with a lot of people disagreeing with it, but in a society, those that disagree are expected to abide by the decision of the majority, if that decision is ethical and thought out.

The majority of Americans want control on guns so that guns don't end up in some people's hands. As long as the basis for that majority feeling does not have unethical justifications underpinning it, those that disagree must abide by the majority decision and if they don't there should be consequences.

One thing that I have seen with rightwing people is that they have no historical perspective outside of their own views. I had an incident this weekend where an apparently rightwing guy was worked up about something that happened to him. I pointed out that the cause of the problem was a decision from the past that we have not fixed, in fact the problem only has gotten worse. My observation was met with a diatribe from the guy, seeing that he had his heels dug in and was only going to get angrier if I pointed out the illogic of his statements, I just chose to shut up and go about my business. Conservative people are convinced that only their view is right and any information that question that view is illegitimate, arguing with them leads to anger and in Florida, can lead to lethal violence, so it is better to let them live in their world sometimes.

[meadowlander]

14. The second amendment says "a well-regulated militia".

Regulating guns is entirely consistent with the rights laid out in the second amendment.

Also, the right of kids to go to school safely and for people to enjoy public places without being in constant fear for their lives is also a natural right which is being infringed by people who insist that civilians having easy access to assault rifles makes any sense at all to anyone.

If "anyone can have an assault rifle" were a natural right, don't you think the oppressed people of the other 194 countries in the world would be agitating at least a little bit to secure it? But they don't. Because they can see that it's bonkers. The "natural right" to an assault rifle is also not recognised by the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights funnily enough.

[hack89]

15. Tell them that even Scalia thought the 2A allowed strict regulation of guns

tell them to read Heller.

[Jersey Devil]

16. unfollow them

You have a better chance of convincing a dog that steak tastes terrible.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. We don't live in a state of nature.

Hobbes said life in a state of nature is "nasty, brutish, and short." We form governments in which we give up some of our natural rights to gain new ones, like the right to be safe from being shot by someone who has a gun illegally.

[Stallion]

18. Here You Go-Direct from Scalia 2008 Heller Opinion

On pp. 54 and 55, the majority opinion, written by conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, he states:

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…”. It is “…not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

This is currently the binding precedent on restrictions on the 2nd Amendment which is CLEARLY not an absolute right

[hunter]

20. Gun love is disgusting. I have no trouble saying that.

Gun fetishists have much in common with the folks who defend cigarette smoking and drunk driving.

There's no reason to be polite.

The second amendment is bullshit. It has no place in the 21st century.

It's directly comparable to the Three-Fifths Clause of the United States Constitution.

[Downtown Hound]

21. How is a gun a "natural right?"

Guns do not grow on trees. Humans survived without them for hundreds of thousands of years. They are a product of industrialization, capitalism, and engineering. There is nothing natural about them. They are about as natural as an aircraft carrier.