Oh, damn. She went there!

[orangecrush]

Editor's Note: (Asha Rangappa is a senior lecturer at Yale's Jackson Institute for Global Affairs. She is a former special agent in the FBI, specializing in counterintelligence investigations. Follow her @AshaRangappa_. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.)

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/18/opinions/mueller-indictment-goals-opinion-rangappa/index.html

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gabi Hayes]

1. Loved her from the moment I saw her on the cable

She knows what she’s talking about

Sorry this is about Bernie, though

What would they have done to him if he’d won the nom?

That would’ve been interesting

[orangecrush]

2. I was a Bernie supporter in the primary

and switched to, and voted for Hillary after.



This is very, very bad, coming from a high ranking COUNTERINTELLIGENCE EXPERT.

[CentralMass]

4. This was unnsolicited help from agents of a foreign government for their own purposes.

Last edited Mon Feb 19, 2018, 12:37 AM - Edit history (1)

People are really lobbing unfounded accusations around very easily.

[ornotna]

21. Yep

[zentrum]

28. Yes. Thank you.

[rwsanders]

45. Yeah and there are people here who are really loving it

Funny how there is the perception of only one "pure" campaign right now.

[GWC58]

180. Im pretty sure Bernie did NOT request

help from the Russians. Look I like Bernie Sanders. Near the end of the primary’s I started liking him a little less. If not for Hillary he’d have been my choice. I really liked some of what Bernie was saying. I just liked Hillary more. I thought, really thought, 16 was her year. Under normal circumstances it may have been.

[Sophia4]

61. Yes. Mueller probably knows if and to what extent there may have been "collusion"

by US residents or citizens and just who might have been involved if anyone.

I personally doubt that anyone from either Jill Stein or Bernie's campaign was involved, but we shall see. The facts will come out.

[pnwmom]

87. With regard to Jill Stein, who went to dinner with Putin, I think there was a very high likelihood.

With regard to Bernie I'm at this point agnostic.

[Gothmog]

152. I think that the case for Stein's involvement is easy

Time will tell as to the case against Sanders

[lark]

156. Jill Stein was personally involved.

She personally went to Russia and sat right next to Flynn, she's part of the witting hacking of our election.

[Sophia4]

160. That is not proof that she knew or in any way condoned the hacking.

There has to be some proof, some link between her and the Russian hackers and government other than sitting at a table with a few of them.

Hillary had more contact with Russian authorities than Jill Stein.

There is more to proof than just sitting at a table.

I'm sure that Mueller will look through her donations and her personal accounts. That's the way investigations are done. Just sitting at a table with someone is not enough.

Also, she sat across from Flynn, not next to him at least in the photos I have seen.

[pnwmom]

162. I don't think anyone's blaming her for the hacking. nt

[lark]

196. Not proof no, but this isn't a court of law.

Optically, she's a colluder by going to this dinner. Why, after all the allegations of interference would she go to this dinner full of conspirators, if she didn't approve or even take part in the actions? If shes was actually involved in the election hacking, hope Mueller has the evidence and locks her up too. We know she was at a bare min. an unwitting tool, and based on how she ran, it strongly appears she was part and parcel of the treachery.

[Sophia4]

197. If she were, she would have been indicted by now.

[lark]

198. I don't know about that.

Drumpf jr., Jared, Eric, orange assface, Pence have also not been indicted yet. He's saving the big names and direct conspiracy charges for later, after the table has been completely set.

[Sophia4]

200. Yes. He is saving big names and direct conspiracy charges for later, but I doubt

that Jill Stein is a big enough fish for the Russians to have let her know what they were doing. The Russians seem to have done their homework with regard to the American political scene and election system.

[ehrnst]

205. Why do you think that? (nt)

[Danascot]

68. Putin hates Hillary and supported her opponents

Mueller's indictments indicate that Russia/Putin not only supported Trump but also Bernie and Jill Stein. In other words, and this will sound familiar, anyone but Hillary.

His grudge against Hillary has its basis here:

"In December 2011, Vladimir Putin came closer than he’s ever been to losing his hold on power. His decision that year to run for a third term as Russia’s President had inspired a massive protest movement against him. Demonstrations calling for him to resign were attracting hundreds of thousands of people across the country. Some of his closest allies had defected to the opposition, causing a split in the Kremlin elites, and Russian state media had begun to warn of a revolution in the making.

At a crisis meeting with his advisers on Dec. 8 of that year, the Russian leader chose to lay the blame on one meddling foreign diplomat: U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“She set the tone for certain actors inside the country; she gave the signal,” Putin said of Clinton at the time, accusing her of ordering the opposition movement into action like some kind of revolutionary sleeper cell. “They heard this signal and, with the support of the U.S. State Department, started actively doing their work.”

From - http://time.com/4422723/putin-russia-hillary-clinton/

[yardwork]

107. Exactly. Hillary had to be defeated. Everyone against her was promoted.

[poli3]

128. This is a ridiculous line of reasoning

Other Republicans said even worse about Putin than Hillary did, Putin by that logic, would also have 'grudges' against them.

[Control-Z]

164. Were these republicans women? eom

[PatrickforO]

177. Ah but Clinton was SoS. She had massive gravitas.

Still has.

Now, I can accept the assertion that Putin hated Clinton and so supported all her rivals, Bernie, Trump and Stein in a very, very sophisticated way in swing states.

I'm not into blaming Bernie just because some Russian assholes put posts on facebook supporting him.

[JI7]

185. that's why he didn't help McCain and Romney the way he helped Trump

[poli3]

129. Why would Putin support someone who insulted him harder than Hillary ever did?

The other republicans attacked Putin harder than hillary, so by that logic, Putin should also have 'grudges' against them.

He was nice to Bernie, because Bernie advocated positions he liked, it's as simple as that.

[yardwork]

149. Lol. Right. It's all about saying mean things.

Eye roll.

[Fred Sanders]

159. Eyerroll+1. Like the logic of gunners, there is none.

[standingtall]

191. No Trump advocated the positions of Putin

liked not Bernie. No way Russian oligarch's would favor a socialist like Bernie Sanders. The Soviet Union is long gone. Bernie was just useful for him to hurt Hilary and cause division among Democrats.

[pnwmom]

75. Then why didn't Bernie's campaign speak out against it when they became aware?

And why did Mattes, who noticed the activity start in March 2016, wait till September 2016 to inform Hillary Clinton and the Obama Administration? Had he told Bernie? What had Bernie done? Nothing we know of publicly.


STORY FROM LAST JULY (says the troll activity started in March 2016):

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/05/donald-trump-russia-investigation-fake-news-hillary-clinton

A huge wave of fake news stories originating from eastern Europe began washing over the presidential election months earlier, at the height of the primary campaign. John Mattes, who was helping run the outline campaign for the Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders from San Diego, said it really took off in March 2016.

“In a 30-day period, dozens of full-blown sites appeared overnight, running full level productions posts. It screamed out to me that something strange was going on,” Mattes said. Much of the material was untraceable, but he tracked 40% of the new postings back to eastern Europe.

SNIP

He was particularly struck by a report on 10 August that formed part of the dossier on the Russian interference campaign compiled by the former British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, which quoted an unnamed Trump associate discussing a Russian-driven campaign to alienate Sanders supporters from Clinton.

“He was writing in real time about things I was seeing happening in August, but I couldn’t articulate until September,” he said. Because the Sanders online campaign was so open, democratic and relatively unregulated, Mattes says he now realises: “We basically set ourselves up to be victims of an international cyberwarfare campaign. We were pawns in this but very effective pawns.”

STORY FROM TODAY (says the troll activity started "after Sanders was beat out by Hillary Clinton."

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Bernie-Sanders-HIllary-Clinton-Social-Media-Russian-Infiltration-Campaign-474369533.html

A San Diego man who organized Bernie Sander’s local Facebook group during the 2016 presidential election told NBC 7 he noticed traces of Russia’s hidden social media trolling campaign years ago.

After Sanders was beat out by Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, he noticed something was a little off.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people were joining Bernie Sanders pages on Facebook for a campaign that was over. It made no sense.” John Mattes told NBC 7.

Mattes resorted to checking other Bernie Sanders pages around the country. “It was everywhere," he said. Mattes noticed that the posts had a similar theme. "‘Anti-Hillary’, ‘Hillary is sick’, ‘Hillary is involved in Al Qaeda’, ‘Hillary’s getting money from the Russians’”.

“I started digging deeper, tried to look at the servers, I tried to look at the IP address of these people,” Mattes added. Soon, he realized that the people behind these accounts weren't actually people.

[BoneyardDem]

81. I'd asked question several times recently, and the BoB response......?

Was to point out typos, language and auto correct items. I guess to some that proves them correct......or they are attempting to employ Trump style distraction and diversion.

[CentralMass]

97. What in that article has anything to do with Sanders or his campaign.

You are just attempting to instigate something here. He isn't mentioned at all in the article.
What bull$hit are you selling.

[pnwmom]

100. His campaign was mentioned in both of the articles we were talking about.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/05/donald-trump-russia-investigation-fake-news-hillary-clinton

A huge wave of fake news stories originating from eastern Europe began washing over the presidential election months earlier, at the height of the primary campaign. John Mattes, who was helping run the outline campaign for the Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders from San Diego, said it really took off in March 2016.

“In a 30-day period, dozens of full-blown sites appeared overnight, running full level productions posts. It screamed out to me that something strange was going on,” Mattes said. Much of the material was untraceable, but he tracked 40% of the new postings back to eastern Europe.

SNIP

He was particularly struck by a report on 10 August that formed part of the dossier on the Russian interference campaign compiled by the former British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, which quoted an unnamed Trump associate discussing a Russian-driven campaign to alienate Sanders supporters from Clinton.

“He was writing in real time about things I was seeing happening in August, but I couldn’t articulate until September,” he said. Because the Sanders online campaign was so open, democratic and relatively unregulated, Mattes says he now realises: “We basically set ourselves up to be victims of an international cyberwarfare campaign. We were pawns in this but very effective pawns.”


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Bernie-Sanders-HIllary-Clinton-Social-Media-Russian-Infiltration-Campaign-474369533.html

A San Diego man who organized Bernie Sander’s local Facebook group during the 2016 presidential election told NBC 7 he noticed traces of Russia’s hidden social media trolling campaign years ago.

After Sanders was beat out by Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, he noticed something was a little off.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people were joining Bernie Sanders pages on Facebook for a campaign that was over. It made no sense.” John Mattes told NBC 7.

Mattes resorted to checking other Bernie Sanders pages around the country. “It was everywhere," he said. Mattes noticed that the posts had a similar theme. "‘Anti-Hillary’, ‘Hillary is sick’, ‘Hillary is involved in Al Qaeda’, ‘Hillary’s getting money from the Russians’”.

“I started digging deeper, tried to look at the servers, I tried to look at the IP address of these people,” Mattes added. Soon, he realized that the people behind these accounts weren't actually people.

[BoneyardDem]

122. Your own response in post #4 acknowledges Bernie got help

What fake outrage are you trying to pull here?

[CentralMass]

155. My response was to reply #2 If you care look

2. I was a Bernie supporter in the primary

and switched to, and voted for Hillary after.



This is very, very bad, coming from a high ranking COUNTERINTELLIGENCE EXPERT

The article in this story has no mention of Sanders or his campaign.

Reply #2 Did

That is what bullshit that I am talking about

[BoneyardDem]

175. There is no bullshit going on. The indictment claims that Bernie benefitted......

From Russian meddling. In addition, for those who actually cared to see, they will know that this wasn't new news....it came out from BS own analyst Mattes:

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2017/03/23/russia-duped-bernie-fans-via-facebook-san-diego-dems-told/

How extensive was the influence?

Mattes said 8.7 million shares, reactions and comments on Sanders-backing Facebook pages were spawned by bogus anti-Clinton attacks.

That compares with just under 7.4 million shares, reactions and comments connected to legitimate news sources.

Mattes noted that 8 percent of voters age 18-40 voted for third-party candidates. In Wisconsin, 144,000 votes were cast for third-party candidates, and Clinton lost the state by 44,000 votes.

Councilwoman Georgette Gómez swears in new officers of San Diego Democrats for Equality. Photo by Ken Stone
Councilwoman Georgette Gómez swears in new officers of San Diego Democrats for Equality. Photo by Ken Stone

The only question remaining is when did Bernie know? IMHO he's known, and rather than reigning it in, encouraged his own followers to continue the false talking points the Russians initiated.

[ehrnst]

204. Can anyone post a link to where he spoke out about it once told?

Because silence isn't golden in this instance.

[betsuni]

103. "Since the Russians were so active in doing that, those Bernie people who were frothing

at the mouth at the mention of Hillary Clinton might think about that the next time they start frothing" -- Bill Maher last Friday.

[ehrnst]

206. ....

Yep.

[uponit7771]

112. +1

[ehrnst]

203. Yep. (nt)

[Eliot Rosewater]

151. Unsolicited and uncooperative with I assume is your statement?

Can you link me to where it says that?

[Ferrets are Cool]

161. Bingo!

[MelissaB]

5. Same.

[Gabi Hayes]

22. Me, too

Sad!

Been nosehold voting since 72

[dae]

63. Chuck Todd pressed him on MTP this morning and Bernie answered very

frankly. The interview was on twitter but I’m sure it can be accessed elseware.

[orangecrush]

65. I missed that

thanks for the info.

[Exotica]

120. here is the whole MTP Sanders segment

&t

[orangecrush]

140. Thank you!

[pnwmom]

85. I thought he was being vague, referring to becoming aware of the bots

around the time Hillary had won the primary "or" at least by the convention.

His San Diego organizer said he first noticed an explosion in the posts in March 2016 -- so, months before the convention. But since Hillary had all-but-won in March, Bernie's statement was vague enough to be true.

[Exotica]

121. He said they went to the Clinton campaign in September 2016

It is around 1 minute 20 seconds into the video I just posted

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10256188

[pnwmom]

136. That's true. But he ALSO said they found out months before then. So why did they wait?

And why is he vague about when they found out? His San Diego organizer, the one who first reported this, said in July 2017 that he had first noticed it and started investigating back in March 2016.

[Exotica]

137. that was my point, i was showing that Sanders waited for months before going to Hillary

It looks really dodgy that he waited so long.

Something has to give, as this entire Russia thing, if it goes badly for not just Trump, but bleeds over to non-Republicans, is going to tear apart our Party as well. I am so conflicted when it comes to Sanders, I never supported him, but I also assumed he was a clean actor.

The true danger is if he is circumstantially implied to be tainted as a Russian change agent (without this actually being remotely legally proven) This is horrid for the country, as his millions of supporters will go all out anti anyone who they feel (rightly or wrongly) is calling their saint Bernie a Russian plant. It is a perfect wedge division to dis-empower the Democratic party.

I still have complete faith that Mueller will get to the bottom of this dirty rotten mess.

[pnwmom]

138. And it wasn't Sanders who went to Hillary. It was John Mattes. Did he go behind

Bernie's back, after not getting a response from Bernie? Or did Bernie (for some reason) tell Mattes to do it himself?

[Exotica]

141. that is a good point, here is more on Mattes

Russia Duped Bernie Fans via Facebook, San Diego Dems Told

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2017/03/23/russia-duped-bernie-fans-via-facebook-san-diego-dems-told/

Oliver Mitov was dispatched by the Kremlin to get Bernie Sanders fans to vote third-party in the November election, write in the Democratic primary loser for president — or not vote at all.

But investigative journalist John Mattes, describing how fake stories on Facebook helped defeat Hillary Clinton, isn’t sure who Mitov is.
“He may be a bot. He may be a person [or four]. He may be living in Macedonia, laughing,” Mattes told a rapt audience of 90 Thursday night in Hillcrest.

But Mitov’s thousands of posts — and similar ones from Albania and elsewhere — duped just enough of the 13 million Sanders supporters to hand the election to Donald Trump and prove Russia could hack American democracy, said the 66-year-old resident of Pacific Beach.

A major Sanders organizer in Southern California himself, Mattes admitted that “we were played.”

snip

Sanders' Local Social Media Organizer Claims He Noticed Russian Infiltration Years Ago

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Bernie-Sanders-HIllary-Clinton-Social-Media-Russian-Infiltration-Campaign-474369533.html

A San Diego man who organized Bernie Sander’s local Facebook group during the 2016 presidential election told NBC 7 he noticed traces of Russia’s hidden social media trolling campaign years ago.

After Sanders was beat out by Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, he noticed something was a little off.

“Hundreds and hundreds of people were joining Bernie Sanders pages on Facebook for a campaign that was over. It made no sense.” John Mattes told NBC 7.

Mattes resorted to checking other Bernie Sanders pages around the country. “It was everywhere," he said. Mattes noticed that the posts had a similar theme. "‘Anti-Hillary’, ‘Hillary is sick’, ‘Hillary is involved in Al Qaeda’, ‘Hillary’s getting money from the Russians’”.

snip

[R B Garr]

125. He was being vague. He was only responsive to what

benefited him. Other politicians keep getting grilled until they answer.

[Me.]

7. They Would've Sliced & Diced

He has no idea what he would've been put through because he was essentially treated with kid gloves

[comradebillyboy]

130. If he runs again in 2020 I hope the gloves come off and

Sanders gets the close scrutiny he so richly deserves but avoided in 2015-2016.

[Me.]

139. If He Does

That foot wide oppo folder will be opened. He's had an easy time of it throughout his career. I won't be surprised to see some of it appear if he has a challenger of any merit.

[Gothmog]

148. Agreed

[jmowreader]

47. You know what they would have done to him

They'd have painted him as a full-blown card-carrying commie who packs borscht in his lunchbox (possible but not likely), honeymoons in the Soviet Union (he did) and wants to turn America into a Socialist Paradise (which was kind of his campaign platform). The next six months would have been filled with Bernie explaining the difference between a democratic socialist and a revolutionary socialist every time he turned around, and Trump would have won Massachusetts.

[oswaldactedalone]

106. Correct

Would have been ugly.

[jmowreader]

134. They would also have shown Red Square military parades

“Mr and Mrs Middle America, do you want a president who’s so much of a commie he would parade military equipment down Constitution Avenue to glorify himself?”

Apparently so because the microdick bastard they voted for wants to do that very thing.

[syringis]

51. She is great

I posted one of her tweets, a few days ago. About due process which became suddenly a priority for the baboon...

It was first time I see her. I watched a couple of video on youtube. She not only knows what she's talking about, but she also can explain complex judicial notions very simply and make them understandable for anyone.

[orangecrush]

64. Following her now

Her credentials are a wow.

[asiliveandbreathe]

3. WOW!!! - OC...just read your previous OP - nice work...here - want another

analysis - just security.. Bob Bauer - WH council to Prez Obama - again...sums things up from a legal point of view....and what comes next in the Mueller investigation...

...snip....

Mueller and his team may have concluded that straight statutory campaign finance allegations rest on too much untested ground and would complicate what may well be the next phase of their investigation. 

This consideration would not affect the foreign national side of the case: Foreign nationals are plainly prohibited from spending in the manner detailed in the indictment.

But how the law reaches American co-conspirators is less certain, and the special counsel’s theory of the case, pleading the campaign finance aspect of the case through conspiracy-to-defraud, may allow more securely the prosecution of American actors.

https://www.justsecurity.org/52610/charging-mystery-russia-indictments-and-indication-mueller-investigation/

...snip...

The Mueller indictment is conceivably one way to solve this problem. It alleges a conspiracy to prevent the FEC from taking up and addressing the regulatory issues, and American co-conspirators may be brought in on any overt act in furtherance of this illegal scheme.


Any U.S. citizen who intentionally supported the Russian electoral intervention could be liable. Examples would include U.S. citizens engaged in conversations like those in Trump Tower in summer of 2016, or Don, Jr.’s communications with WikiLeaks about the timing of the release of stolen emails.

The conspiracy to defraud the United States could also envelop any Americans who helped cover the Russians’ illegal electoral program by lying to federal authorities about the campaign’s Russian contacts.

[orangecrush]

10. Thank you!

Mueller is a grandmaster.

This is his, and the FBI's finest hour.

Never thought I'd say that.

Strange days have tracked us down.

[asiliveandbreathe]

13. I am sure more slicing and dicing will be forth coming from

the top notch legal community regarding muellers latest charges,,for sure..

[pnwmom]

89. Thanks for posting this! I think it deserves its own OP. I almost missed it. n/t

[asiliveandbreathe]

124. It was late last night..and in an effort to move the conversation forward

.it was like a Fri. night dump..saying to self, if it doesn't appear in the morning I will create an OP..I will Look -

[Hortensis]

186. Yes, thanks. Good read.

[secondwind]

6. Havent we all been saying the same thing for a long time?

[orangecrush]

14. I'm pretty thick

Just lately catching up.

Now I feel like an idiot.

And Mueller is cleaning up the mess.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

8. I look at Bernie's record - his unfailing support for causes I believe in. His willingness to

Go to jail for them.

I voted for him in my state's primary, even though I knew it was a lost cause by then (just like I voted for Hillary in the 2008 primary), so I could vote for him at least once.

I'd do it again.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. No doubt!

[50 Shades Of Blue]

12. Meaning what?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. Ummm... no doubt, as in I AGREE with you 100%... I would do it again TOO!

("It" = vote for Bernie in the 2020 Democratic primary, in case you're still not clear... assuming, of course, he runs.)

[50 Shades Of Blue]

18. Thanks!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

80. Yeah, HUGE Bernie supporter in the primary. Love how many prospective 2020 candidates...

are following Bernie's lead and saying they would refuse to take PAC money. Bernie has ALWAYS been ahead of his time. Would make a GREAT President!

[50 Shades Of Blue]

92. I think so too! I'm keeping my Bernie buttons!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. Ohhh yeahhh!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[chwaliszewski]

34. Same here!

[zentrum]

31. Me too.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. Same here.

[lunatica]

74. Same here

[Martin Eden]

181. Same here

Bernie is on our side and as been his entire life.

[Kentonio]

189. Absolutely.

[MrsCoffee]

9. But, "Americans are not staying up every day worrying about Russia's interference in our election."

And no on sanctions because: Iran. No on Magnitsky Act because: who the fuck knows.



Funny how this is playing out.

[dalton99a]

16. +1

[orangecrush]

17. I worry about it a great deal

and there is no excuse.

[George II]

27. And five times "No" on the Brady Bill, and "No" on gun manufacturers' liability.

[Exotica]

172. in regards to "Bernie and the Amber alert vote" meme (and I am no Sanders fangirl)

Also voting no along with Bernie- John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Jesse Jackson, Barney Frank, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Barbara Lee., Maxine Waters, Mel Watt, Pete Stark, Bobby Scott, Jerrold Nadler, Jim McDermott, Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers, etc

http://www.ontheissues.org/HouseVote/Party_2003-127.htm


this was turned into RW talking points by the Republicans

2006 Ad: Bernie Sanders voted against Amber Alert and jailing repeat child molesters for life

Sanders' vote on Amber Alert emerges as key campaign issue

http://archive.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2006/09/21/sanders_vote_on_amber_alert_emerges_as_key_campaign_issue/

snip

But Sanders voted against the Amber Alert bill because he felt its sentencing provisions were an unconstitutional intrusion by Congress, taking power that should rest with the judiciary.

The late Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist agreed. He wrote a letter to the Congress saying the sentencing provisions would do "serious harm to the basic structure of the sentencing guideline system" used by federal judges "and would seriously impair the ability of courts to impose just and reasonable sentences."

Lennon said Sanders "wants to have it both ways" on restricting sentences. He noted that Sanders says on his Web site that he supports mandatory minimum sentences for repeat sex offenders. Sanders' camp said there is no inconsistency. Congress often passes mandatory minimum sentences for various crimes, but Sanders believed the sentencing provisions in the Amber Alert bill restricted sentencing in a much broader way, Weaver said.

Linda Fowler, a Dartmouth College professor of government, said Republicans in Washington are adept at designing legislation with the goal of embarrassing Democrats. Being in the majority in both the House and Senate, "they can use their control in bringing things to the floor to again create highly symbolic votes," Fowler said.

snip

[Tribalceltic]

19. Isn't it about time

Somebody looked a the split he created in the Democratic Party?

[orangecrush]

20. Oh, damn!

She went there!

[Gabi Hayes]

25. How DARE he run for office at such a high level?

Does he not know his pace?

[orangecrush]

32. I was warrprayer

before the RUSSIAN FUCKING HACK of D.U. locked me out, and I had to create this account.

I was a financial and frequent avid supporter of Bernie in the primary, and on this board.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. Been here for eons

Stayed away for a LONG time after the theft

May have to do it again

Not healthy

Who you lookin at for 2020?

I’m thinking Triumph

Oh god

That was the hardest I’ve laughed in awhile!

Never saw it before

[orangecrush]

49. "I'm keeping

my powder dry."


Bring back memories?

[Gabi Hayes]

53. Gaasaaa!

Time to get down in the mucknmire, he said, stolidly

As Harry Truman said:

“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”

Send those fuckers TO hell

[orangecrush]

57. .....

You DO remember!

[pressbox69]

167. Nice!

[Me.]

26. WOW

what a thought...even I didn't go there

[zentrum]

41. He ran in the Primary.

That's all.

We are allowed to have primaries. We do not crown chosen candidates.

He is allowed to critique certain aspects in the Party. As do many Democrats.

He improved her as a campaigner, which is the purpose of Primaries.

He has nothing to do with this Russian interference.

[orangecrush]

58. I really hope you are right

Because if you are not, millions of people who supported him out of wonderful high aspirations are going to be left with a very cynical, bitter taste in their mouth.

Which would please Putin to no end, the best and brightest losing faith in our political system.

[Hortensis]

187. Those who ultimately put it on nasty old politics

instead of their own choices should consider that We The People are the most powerful player in politics by far. And let's face it, we failed dreadfully in 2016.

Agitprop is really stupid stuff: short basic messages repeated over and over. Even though they're designed to hit the gut instead of the brain, it takes a lot of self indulgence to believe lies that are easily disproved, even from candidates we like. Especially constantly repeated so we're constantly reminded that "I. need. to. check. that. out."

"Is it true?"

[Wwcd]

69. He improved WHO as a campaigner.

If you're referring to Hillary Clinton you better bring something to back that statement up.

I'll be waiting....
Geezus!

Perhaps you meant Jill Stein.

[zentrum]

116. Four Big Ones.

1. Finally, by July, she embraced his plan for free public education, leaving behind her more conservative "debt-free" emphasis. And hers had a cap, unlike Sanders, but—hallelujah---she moved left— and Sanders praised her for it. "This proposal, when implemented, will revolutionize the funding of higher education in America,' he said. Would she have done this without Bernie? I doubt it. (Just like he always protected her in debates from attacks about her "emails" —always the gentleman.)

2. Finally advocated for a public health option, because of rhetorical pressure form him.Claimed to have supported that her whole life. But it was only towards the final stages that she finally stopped saying
the issue should be left alone post-Obamacare. She got bolder. Thanks Bernie! Hillary found her public position!

3. Finally moved to his $15.00 minimum wage figure. She'd been hedging around $12.00 but finally—she moved!

4. She was for the Trans-Pacific Trade deal and advocated for it for months. If not years. Until she wasn't. So another hedge—and another move left!

Glad you're not losing any zzzz's. Bernie made the whole platform more progressive and helped open the door for our new slate of more progressive candidates. Yay Bernie!

[zentrum]

123. Oh I will.

My point exactly. It became her platform. He pulled her left.

The four changes I mention were not in her original primary statements.

Easy to know which is the real history with a little reading. Which I recommend to you. But lest you think I'm inviting more, this is very tedious and I'm done. Toodle-oo.

[Skittles]

176. he wasn't a Democrat until he ran for president

he isn't a Democrat now

[zentrum]

178. Wish more Democrats

…were like him.

[Skittles]

179. LOL

alrighty then

[standingtall]

192. You mean more Democrats can lose the primary

and scream the system was rigged against them? Causing division among Democrats and helping republicans in the general. No thanks I'll pass.

[zentrum]

194. Even the DNC

….admits they were "rigged" against him and you know that's all he's referring to.

But if you're a fan of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz type Democrat—there's no more to say.

[yardwork]

108. The split that just happened to depress turnout for Hillary in the GE.

[LexVegas]

23. Rec. nt

[orangecrush]

24. Thanks for the rec!

[IronLionZion]

29. Why accuse Bernie?

He certainly didn't seem to benefit from any of this and would never want Trump elected.

[George II]

30. Huh?

[orangecrush]

33. I am not accusing.

I posted the tweet of an extremely credible expert in counterintelligence, who is raising a valid question.

[IronLionZion]

35. I know, I just highly doubt Bernie would have wanted any of this

[orangecrush]

38. I hope you are right.

In my heart.

I really do.

[Cha]

40. Yeah well, he needs to address it..

Link to tweet

[orangecrush]

50. True

[rockfordfile]

54. That's true.

I think Sanders should have gotten out of the primary sooner. One of the goals Russians with Trump/GOP was to have low turn out.

[Sunsky]

110. This

+1000

[Cha]

145. Mahalo, Sunsky!

[comradebillyboy]

131. It will never happen. I'd best not say more.

[Cha]

146. Yeah, I know what you mean..

unless he gets pushed enough.

he might be sorry he didn't address it right away.

[Gothmog]

153. I tape and watch Ari's show every night

Ari is a good lawyer and I love his explanation of legal issues

[Cha]

157. Ari Melber is dead on about this.. I don't

see anybody else saying it. And, you know it's true.

I'm glad he's there for you, Gothmog

[Gothmog]

169. I love it when Ari goes in depth on the legal issues

[R B Garr]

170. That is a great tweet from Ari.

Thx for posting it, Cha. “remarkable omission” indeed.

National media is connecting the dots, it seems. Thank you, Mueller.

[Cha]

171. Yes, Dots being Connected! A Lovely

thing, RB.. that we've been waiting so Long to hear.

You're Welcome

[Wwcd]

70. Huh?

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. Winning was not the benefit Sanders derived from the 2016 primary. The schism that still exists to..

this day, within the party, was also a benefit.

[Hortensis]

188. How much of THAT is real v fake, though? The Russians,

Repubs, sensationalizing media, and the Sanders campaign itself, did a fine job of selling the story, profitable to all of them, that this was a large enough bloc to possibly win the primary and even take over the party. And they did it primarily through pushing or reporting fake messages of a pervasive party and candidate corruption and betrayal that don't exist.

Sanders' bloc isn't and never came close to being the force it was portrayed as, though of course many didn't understand that and some still don't. That's understandable because their voices and messages were and still are amplified well beyond their numbers.

For just a little reality check, remember that 90% of Sanders' primary voters moved smoothly to their second choice they were very satisfied with, and some of the remaining support eventually also did (though of course not with great satisfaction). THAT message is huge and real, no matter how much the media chooses to pretend otherwise.

There is no big schism in the party as a whole. Thanks to the huge threats from the right, we are both more cohesive and largely diverse than we have been in many decades.

There are division and dissension between the party's most discontented faction (already there but augmented by by Russian and right wing agitprop) and the rest of its factions who don't agree with them. But to most Democrats it's just something they run across in the news now and then, those who are paying attention at all.

Come November 6, just as in 2016, the vast majority of Democrats who turn out will vote Democrat, and almost all of those will feel very good about it.

[Cha]

36. Wow! thanks, Asha Rangappa & orange crush..

for going there.

Link to tweet

As a Hillary supporter.

I remember the name warprayer.. but nothing about you.

[orangecrush]

39. I was very naive

and it looks like it bit me on the ass.

[Cha]

42. You're an honest "was naive"

person. I admire that.

[orangecrush]

52. You are very kind

and I am very slow sometimes.

[jalan48]

37. Given how brief and cryptic her tweet is I'm not exactly sure where she has gone.

Perhaps she will have more detail in the upcoming days.

[JI7]

44. it's a response to another Tweet

[jalan48]

48. I see that-just not quite getting what she is trying to say here.

"And it's interesting that you also were very quick to claim that our processes were "rigged" as long as you were losing. Coincidence? "

Since we can't go back and argue the primaries here on DU what are we left with?

[orangecrush]

55. I would say

that is more than possible.

[jalan48]

66. Well, there's this. Maybe Warren and Brazile were in on it with the Russians too?

CNN asked Senator Elizabeth Warren if Mrs Clinton's contest against Democratic rival Bernie Sanders was rigged, and she said: "Yes."

Ms Warren, a progressive senator from Massachusetts who campaigned for Mrs Clinton, was reacting to allegations by former Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairwoman Donna Brazile.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41850798

[SunSeeker]

56. K & R

[orangecrush]

59. ....

[moondust]

60. I think Bernie's complaints

were mainly about the DNC "rigging" the debate schedule to favor the well-known establishment candidate and undercut the newcomer who needed publicity. I don't recall him complaining about "rigging" during the general probably because he was not a candidate in the general.

Perhaps Ms. Rangappa has an axe to grind. I've only seen her on CNN a couple times and actually thought she was better than this.

"Coincidence?" sounds just like Drumpf trying too hard to connect things that are not connected.

[orangecrush]

62. Many questions

But I believe they must and will be addressed.

[Wwcd]

71. Seems Hillary was the only one that didn't cry "its rigged"!

Although it clearly ended up being massively rigged against her.

She never used it as a campaign tool.
Speaks to her integrity, her fairness & her sense of seriousness in the game of 2016.

She persisted through it all.

[orangecrush]

77. She wasn't running against Trump

She was running against Russian intelligence under the control of Putin.

[Wwcd]

88. Exactly. And she still carried on her clean campaign through all the corrupt players & their games

She walked through gdamn fire for the thankful as well as the thankless of this Nation.

[moondust]

79. "campaign tool"?

Bernie may have had legitimate complaints against the DNC for trying to protect their chosen candidate from too much public scrutiny by scheduling fewer debates and when fewer people would tune in: during or after big football games, on weekends, etc. And possibly for having a hand in scheduling the primaries in such a way as to favor their chosen candidate.

But I'm not interested in refighting the primaries, particularly with anybody's fanboys or fangirls. Bye.

[Wwcd]

91. She never used "rigged" as Trump did in 2016 and Still does.

Trump has used "rigged" as a campaign tool in pandering to his base, endlessly.

I can't fking wait for Mueller's final papers on 2015/16

It will reveal the truth. FINALLY.

Everyone who played a role in the 2016 coup against the US Govt & its sovernigty will be held to account.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

86. Yeah, she just wrote a book about "what happened"

[mcar]

115. Huh?

She wasn't allowed to write a book after the fact?

[zentrum]

118. Exactly.

He's being smeared with things he didn't do. It's a shameful thing to do to one of our best guys.

[Wwcd]

72. K & R ..Thank you for posting this

I am particularly interested to find out what part Paul Manafort & his electioneering buddy from the old days in the Ukraine, Tad Devine fit into Muellers final papers.

I can wait.

[orangecrush]

78. Very welcome!

Same here.

[Wwcd]

82. Enough is enough. Their words will no longer hide their true colors.

And thank the powers of righteousness for Robert Mueller, his team that leads their lives for justice & our loyal allies around the world.

[PatrickforO]

73. So...is she a Republican? Most ex FBI people are. Not many Dems

in that organization.

And, she's not with the FBI any more. She's a lecturer at Yale.

Do you wonder what her motives might be here?

DOES ANYONE WONDER WHAT HER MOTIVES MIGHT BE HERE????

Because attacking Bernie is yet another way to fuck up our party, you know?

As in split.

As in rancorous debate.

And, speaking of law enforcement, she's supposed to be all about due process. Yet, here we have INNUENDO.

Sorry, but this is fucked up.

And don't lecture me. We need to pull together, NOT SPLIT OURSELVES ON INNUENDO. We already lost Franken without due process. Now Bernie?

[orangecrush]

76. Mueller

isn't he a republican?

I have no idea what party she belongs to.

[PatrickforO]

83. So why publish this casting aspersion at Bernie?

The Russians fucked with our election. The fuckee should NOT be blamed. That's what I'm saying.

[PatrickforO]

84. One other thought.

I don't think Bernie had a clue. And, when he was defeated, the Russian support went all the way to Trump. But don't let's blame Bernie. Or his supporters - people like me who supported him in good faith because his platform would have genuinely helped us.

You don't think the Russians are fucking with us now?

I do.

[Wwcd]

96. He said himself in an interview that they all knew the Russians were involved.

He did know.

[comradebillyboy]

132. Yes indeed and many of his admirers refuse to acknowlege that fact.

[Wwcd]

90. We'll let Mueller tell us about Bernie.

I do not believe Robert Mueller would be so careless as to casually drop Sanders' name in his official documents were there not more to come.

This is just the beginning of his findings, not the final page.

The truth will be told.
We may like it or not.

[R B Garr]

93. Exactly! Too many coincidences!

Where is Tad Devine??

[Wwcd]

94. He left the campaign with $10 mill. FEC never did get an answer to that mysterious amt.

Someday all these unanswered questions from the 2015/16 campaign will be answered. Even if it has to be demanded under oath.
Mueller will leave nothing out & there will be some damned hard falls to the bottom.

[R B Garr]

101. Right again. No accountability to the FEC and all

their red flags. No transparency. Not even about that $10M. No tax returns. Mueller obviously knows about Devine’s connections.

[lapucelle]

113. Paul Manafort's former partner Tad Devine? That Tad Devine?

[R B Garr]

126. Yes! That Manafort komrad Tad Devine surely has some

knowledge he could share about that whole foreign interference operation.

[lapucelle]

114. Has Mueller interviewed Josh Uretsky?

[R B Garr]

127. Oh, yes, Josh Urestsky! We need to revisit that

whole data breach debacle. It didn’t sound right that they needed to create new user names just to figure out they were in Hillary’s database.

Then lots of Democrats got purged from the rolls. Hmmm. All it took was 75,000 nationwide to change the outcome. hmmm. Maybe Mueller can get to the bottom of it.

[denvine]

174. I totally agree!

But I think it is falling upon deaf ears! They love to rehash all of this stuff when we should be bonding more than ever. This could be another Russian attack to divide the Democratic Party.

[betsuni]

95. K&R

[Jamaal510]

99. K&R

[Skittles]

102. I REALLY wish I could say what I REALLY think

but I cannot

[orangecrush]

144. The truth is coming to light

slow but sure.

[comradebillyboy]

133. Right you are.

[Mike Nelson]

105. That's very...

...true. Of course, Putin favored Bernie over Hillary - and Bernie took advantage where he could, like any candidate (for example, the undemocratic "caucus" system)... because, they want to WIN.

But there is a big difference - Bernie did not work with the Russians and would not have done their bidding. They were eager to wipe the floor with him, after the primaries, and elect Trump.

[Sunsky]

109. K&R

He and his supporters were quick to use and disperse stolen material to "prove their point". They didn't care that another country was attacking our democracy then.
Where was the outrage and condemnation of Russia then?
All I heard were: celebrations of "being vindicated", "the election is rigged", the call for the DNC chair to resign and the division being sown. Bernie has got to be held accountable for his role in the hacking of our democracy. This should be a lesson on what not to do when a hostile country leaks stolen material that would "benefit" one person or another.

[orangecrush]

143. EXCELLENT point!

Almost forgot about that.

[ProfessorGAC]

111. This Trips My "Overreaction" Alarm

What is obvious to me, from this indictment, is that the Russians were gunning for HRC.

If i had been running in the dem primaries, i would have somehow benefited and the russians wouldn't know me from a Klingon.

Lots of accusatory tone in this thread, and i think it likely that Bernie was just the guy who was there while the bots were bound and determined to throw sand into the gears of the HRC campaign.

[SidDithers]

119. DU rec...

and we saw dumbasses like HA Goodman and the Sane Progressive amplifying the messages coming from the Russian bot farms.

How many HA Goodman articles and Sane Progressive videos were posted here during the primary and campaign? And who was posting them?

Sid

[orangecrush]

142. Thanks, Sid

Hopefully, Putin has awoken the sleeping giant that is the Democratic Party.

[Gothmog]

147. K&R

[orangecrush]

150. Thanks Gothmog!

[Gothmog]

154. You are welcomed

[WhiteTara]

158. Fearless. Thank you! I have a crush

on Asha Rangappa. I aspire to be as fearless as she is.

[orangecrush]

165. Fearless

and Formidable!

[malthaussen]

163. No, the indictment charges some Russians.

An indictment is not a conviction. And Mr Sanders (or Mrs Stein, if it comes to that) is not charged with anything in the indictment.

When an indictment is issued alleging that Mr Sanders was involved, then it will be up to the courts to determine if enough evidence exists to make anything "clear." Short of that, it's innuendo.

-- Mal

[orangecrush]

166. There are questions

There will be answers.

[malthaussen]

168. And one should, perhaps, not speculate in advance of those answers.

Oh, human nature, I suppose, but I can be quite inhuman about some things.


-- Mal

[orangecrush]

173. I am withholding judgement

Until the facts are brought forth.

The questions deserve to be heard.

I believe Bernie would agree.

[KPN]

182. Seriously?

And people upthread have the nerve to denigrate others here at DU for buying into "conspiracy theories"?

Two words: disingenuine hypocrisy.

How about just stop with making enemies of those who are actually on your side.

[orangecrush]

183. I am still friends

With most Bernie supporters who knew me during the primary.

There are unanswered questions many agree need to be addressed.

It's not a question of friendship.

[KPN]

184. What questions?

Bernie asked the obvious questions about the Democratic primary during it ... as far as I'm concerned rightfully so. What is the conspiratorial coincidence about obvious questions. Stop promoting character assassination. It's pure BS.

[Kentonio]

190. I'm fast coming to the conclusion that this place is never going to unify in time for the midterms

Our one chance at taking back control and setting the countries future back on the right path, and it could be thrown away over petty high school clique level bullshit.

It'd be enough to make me despair, if the last year hadn't already sunk me to enough of a low.

We're surrounded on all sides by some of the most despicable political adversaries in the countries history, people who want to deport kids to countries they've barely ever seen, want to flood schools with guns, want to take away a woman's right to choose, want to remove taxes on the super wealthy while taking away every safety net that keeps millions of vulnerable people's heads above water, want to make healthcare a preserve of the rich while the poor die of easily treated illnesses or accidents.

And the threads that get the most replies here are ones where people can jump in and attack Bernie Sanders, one of the most progressive politicians in the country.

Perhaps we did end up with the president the country deserves.

[orangecrush]

193. No disunity

I am all for finding and getting behind a candidate who embodies the progressive values Americans love.

[melman]

195. You start a thread with the title 'Oh, damn. She went there!'

And then you pretend to be 'withholding judgement' etc. Who do you think you're fooling with that?

[orangecrush]

199. The title

came from one of the tweets in the o.p..

The tweet is a comment on a tweet by a former FBI special agent who teaches counterintelligence studies at Yale.

She asked a legitimate question, and I posted it.

[Kentonio]

201. So in what way is this thread an attempt to do that?

[orangecrush]

208. it's not.

The purpose of the thread was to share a tweet by an acknowledged expert on counterintelligence on the release statement from the indictments of 13 Ruusians.



She asked a legitimate question, and I posted it.

[Kentonio]

209. It's a free country at the end of the day.

I would just ask though that people try and understand how toxic these kinds of threads are for many people. This place is a good hub for people who want to discuss election strategy, local organizing etc and finding support and help for their local party activities.

For a number of us now though, even coming here and reading a few threads feels like volunteering to be attacked. Almost daily (for more than a year now) there's threads about how horrible a man we deeply respect is supposed to be, and they quite often extend into 'and his supporters'. Meanwhile any counterpoint we make usually goes through a gauntlet of alerts and abuse.

Most of us just want to focus on the real war being fought against the Republican filth trying to wreck the country, and get as ready as possible for the midterms. We can't do that here if people feel like half the forum sees us as worse than the GOP. Being a progressive isn't supposed to be a bad thing.

[NurseJackie]

202. Thanks for sharing this! I'm not sure how...

... I managed to overlook it earlier. But I think it's good to get this information out there, front and center. In spite of the predictable objections expressed throughout, something like this serves as a good catalyst that will hopefully cause others to be reflective and introspective... perhaps making them approach things in a more reflective way. Ms. Rangappa certainly makes a valid point and astute observation that is worthy of consideration.

(These are my opinions.)

[orangecrush]

207. Thank you!

I am glad you enjoyed reading the op!

And you describe my objective in posting it quite well!