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kentuck

(111,104 posts)
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:00 PM Feb 2018

We should remember that it is not the Russian people that have done us wrong.

It is the Russian leadership. It is Vladimir Putin and his oligarch friends.

In my opinion, we should maintain a friendship with the Russian people. They are not that different from us.

With Putin, it is about money. The sanctions are about money. Putin is thought to be maybe the richest man in the world? Whether or not that is true, I have not seen his tax returns to verify.

I do believe that our country is becoming more and more divided. There is no room for discourse. The Trump supporters have chosen their side and we have chosen ours. Trump and Putin are the responsible ones for dividing our nation. They prefer secrecy and propaganda to openness and free speech. That makes a lot of Americans very uncomfortable.

The Russian people probably understand what is going on in America better than most Americans understand it? They know that Putin is a rat. They would like to throw him out of office if they could. But people tend to disappear when they oppose the dictator. Or they are arrested and dragged away.

The people of Russia have a familiarity with revolution that is alien to the minds of most Americans. It is more likely that they will get rid of Putin before America gets rid of Donald Trump. Just my opinion.

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We should remember that it is not the Russian people that have done us wrong. (Original Post) kentuck Feb 2018 OP
Yes, this 100%. It's the Russian leadership. sawasigndc Feb 2018 #1
The ones i blame the most are the Americans who assist them JI7 Feb 2018 #2
Absolutely. It is their money being pilfered MaryMagdaline Feb 2018 #3
I don't even think that has to be said. The trolls during the primary did promote the idea FSogol Feb 2018 #4
Even though russian expats and those in Russia are opposing Putin JI7 Feb 2018 #8
Agree with the main point... renegade000 Feb 2018 #5
Thank you-- volstork Feb 2018 #6
Alaska ? missingfink Feb 2018 #7
Perhaps it's my own ignorance, but might there be a pro-Kremlin contingent of their population Mr. Ected Feb 2018 #9
As you say, there is a contingent that favors Putin... kentuck Feb 2018 #11
+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #10
It's impossible to know with any certainty but TomSlick Feb 2018 #12
I respectfully disagree GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #13
Hard to ignore moondust Feb 2018 #15
Good point. GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #16
Growing up during the Cold War, I believed that the Russians hated us Rhiannon12866 Feb 2018 #14

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
3. Absolutely. It is their money being pilfered
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:08 PM
Feb 2018

Out of the country, laundered by the Trumps of this world. Magnitsky investigated and uncovered the millions of tax payer money stolen from the Russian people. We are trying to prevent the oligarchs from stealing from America as they did from Russia.

FSogol

(45,490 posts)
4. I don't even think that has to be said. The trolls during the primary did promote the idea
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:08 PM
Feb 2018

that an attack or criticism on Putin was an attack on the Russian people. The idea was laughable then and is laughable now.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
5. Agree with the main point...
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:08 PM
Feb 2018

Less optimistic about them getting rid of Putin before us. The few Russian citizens I've interacted with recently seem about as indoctrinated as the Fox "News" crowd is here...

missingfink

(174 posts)
7. Alaska ?
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:16 PM
Feb 2018

A certain element in Russia would like to re-claim Alaska. Would the die-hard Trump supporters go along with this if Trumpy favored selling it back to them? They've been behind him with all of his other bad ideas.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
9. Perhaps it's my own ignorance, but might there be a pro-Kremlin contingent of their population
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 10:24 PM
Feb 2018

That might not necessarily be our friends?

If the Norwegian Prime Minister told her people that it was the American government that was malevolent and not its people, she would be correct...except with respect to our FOX News/Rush Limbaugh crowd. They've bought into the propaganda and are zombies of the state.

I'm sure any such contingent in Russia is a distinct minority, as it is here in the States, though.

kentuck

(111,104 posts)
11. As you say, there is a contingent that favors Putin...
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 11:06 PM
Feb 2018

just as there is a contingent that favors Trump in this country. But I wish to think that the majority of the Russian people are wise to Putin's ways. There is a struggle between our peoples that is very similar, in my opinion. They have an idea of what is best for their country and Putin isn't it. Just as we know in our hearts that Trump is bad for America.

TomSlick

(11,100 posts)
12. It's impossible to know with any certainty but
Sun Feb 18, 2018, 11:35 PM
Feb 2018

Putin appears to enjoy a large level of support among the Russian people. I appreciate that polling in an autocracy in problematic but the opposition to Putin seems a decided minority.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
13. I respectfully disagree
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 12:40 AM
Feb 2018

Russia is like America would be if 80% of the population supported Trump. And we see how bad it is when only 35-40% support him.

And yeah, people are people. But some nations suck worse than others.

Americans do bring something special to the table. Despite our recent stumbles we are the worlds oldest democracy. As imperfect as it has always been. The Russians have never been.

And the Russian Revolution was a total disaster that resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of Russians. They were better off under the Tsar.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
15. Hard to ignore
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:43 AM
Feb 2018

those huge electoral victory margins despite his autocratic behavior. But who knows? A certain Russian is reported to have once said, if not invented: "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
16. Good point.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 01:58 AM
Feb 2018

The Russian have absolutely no cultural experience of living in a Democracy. Which if you think about it is the most uncommon of societies in human history. The Russians seem to value strength in a leader, not virtue.

But nowadays it seems like too many Americans share that desire. Funny how both Russia and the US are the most overtly Christian nations.

Patriarchy anyone?

Rhiannon12866

(205,549 posts)
14. Growing up during the Cold War, I believed that the Russians hated us
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 12:56 AM
Feb 2018

But then I visited the USSR with my grandmother as part of a peace group and met a lot of ordinary Russian people. I learned that they're just like us, want a worthwhile job, a decent place to live, and most of all - a better life for their children. They also are really fond of their dogs. And having experienced the horrors of war on their own turf, they're terrified of it ever happening again.

When I was there, just before the USSR fell, things were beginning to look up under Gorbachev. I feel terrible for them that they're now being dragged back to the bad old days under Putin.

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