Father Of Shooter Asking For Privacy

[SoCalMusicLover]

Standard Press Release Statement by parent of a victim.....errrrrr......KILLER.

I'm sure he sends thoughts & prayers, and NEVER could have imagined this might happen. NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!

[XRubicon]

1. I hold judgement until we learn where the kid got the gun

[DURHAM D]

2. Exactly.

[SoCalMusicLover]

4. Kid Got The Gun From Dad's Collection

Supposedly he bragged about his guns, and showed off pictures on phone.

Dad was also rumored to be a gun fanatic, who likely brought kid up to love them.

[raccoon]

16. I hope the victims family sue that bastard. The father, I mean. NT

[Kaleva]

94. Father died many years ago.

The mother passed away last November.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

[MadDAsHell]

107. Uh, both of his parents are dead. What are you talking about? nt

[raccoon]

109. Seems everyone who ought to be sued it dead. too bad. nt

[raccoon]

120. Sorry, learned that OP is a lie. Where did they get this fake news? Nt

[oberliner]

111. Why are you posting these lies?

[joshcryer]

15. I'm curious as to how gun friendly the dad was.

[Hoyt]

29. Yep. Daddy, like so many gunners, probably introduced his kid

to guns at an early age.

[Drahthaardogs]

39. These types are scary. I grew up on a big ranch

Guns we're necessary but treated with the deadly respect they conveyed, just like the tractor and the horses.

These damned fools taking family photos with guns are mind boggling to me.

[gay texan]

44. Same here

My dad was more concerned with us playing with firearms than the tractor. He was a combat vet and the guns rarely came out. He was no BS when It came to firearms.

[Hoyt]

55. That's proper use of guns, and I don't have a problem with that. My granddad had a farm too.

He often had a 22 of 410 with him ON THE FARM, but not off.

[Drahthaardogs]

58. It's the attitude.

A woman I work with married a nutter. He's a little runt, never killed anything, never hunted, but he's obsessed.

She goes along with it and got mad when I stated I have hunted all across this country and would NEVER treat guns the way she and husband do.

I don't know how to explain it. It's just a different mentality with these types.

[GWC58]

67. Ive never had a picture of myself holding my gun.

Oh wait! I own no guns.

[oberliner]

112. Not true

Why are people posting made up BS?

[Hoyt]

117. What's not true?

[lunasun]

98. Both his parents are dead. The father has been dead for years . He bought the gun @ age 18

You were right to hold judgement .

[Hoyt]

119. His father, or adoptive father, was alive at the age most gunner dads indoctrinate their kids

into gun culture. Fact is, gunners like to indoctrinate their kids into gun culture and train them to shoot and kill people.

[Nevernose]

122. I was just thinking

That maybe we should raise the age to use a firearm to 15, and then only under adult supervision? We don’t teach ten year olds to drive, but we teach them how to use a fucking machine gun? That’s nuts.

[pnwmom]

132. You don't know that. His father died when he was 4. But he's living in a state

where more than 30% of people own guns (more than that among males), so he's immersed in that culture.

[Hoyt]

134. His adoptive father was into guns and was OK with his attraction

to lethal weapons.

[pnwmom]

135. Where is your evidence of that? His adoptive father died when he was four,

and that's all that's ever said about him. Cruz purchased his AR-15 at the age of 18, about a year before his MOTHER died.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. I can't imagine the grief.

[Egnever]

5. apparently the kids in the school knew he would do something like this.

I am guessing dad was not clueless either. That said who knows what predicated this.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fnews%2F2018%2F02%2Fnicolas-nikolas-nick-cruz-florida-school-shooter-gunman-instagram%2F

[LonePirate]

6. Fuck him. He raised that monster and/or neglected the downward spiral his son was in.

He's culpable in my opinion even if the law thinks otherwise.

[USALiberal]

13. There is proof of this or you just making up stuff? n/t

[LonePirate]

17. He either promoted his son's gun obsession or he ignored it. He's a horrible father regardless.

[USALiberal]

18. You have no fucking idea yet. Wow, love the lynch mod mentality here. n/t

[TheDebbieDee]

35. It's obvious that the poster is expressing his/her opinion about the father...

And you don't like his/her opinion. You also think that we all love lynch mobs here.

Your opinion of us sucks to high hell... And most likely, so do you! But that's just my opinion...

[USALiberal]

40. How adorable! nt

[Blecht]

131. I think you need to look at the difference between offering an opinion and making up facts.

Presenting things pulled out of the air as facts is not expressing an opinion.

[lunasun]

103. It's really mob lies not just the OP but replies . Dad died yrs ago & killer bought the gun @ 18

[Baconator]

45. You don't know anything...

[LonePirate]

52. If every relative today's victims doesn't agree that bad parenting existed here, then I will retract

Otherwise, I stand firmly by my assertion that bad parenting existed here. The parents will not receive any support from me.

[Drahthaardogs]

57. Sometimes good parents have a bad kid

A guy I work with has three awesome sons, and a junkie abusive horrible fourth who is a monster.

It happens. It's not always the parents' fault, but you might be right here too. We will find out.

[Baconator]

78. Exactly... Might...

[aikoaiko]

63. I usually just let them ride out their rage

After shootings like this.

Their rage is understandable but they lash out at anything.

[USALiberal]

65. Good advice! Thanks! nt

[Ms. Toad]

21. As the sister of a murderer,

Last edited Wed Feb 14, 2018, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Thank you so much for your judgment.

I don't know the circumstances of this family - BUT - I do know that my parents were model parents and nothing they did (or neglected to do) as parents contributed to my brother's actions.

[LonePirate]

22. Did you brother actively and repeatedly display an unhealthy obsession with guns?

Between the numerous social media posts, the number of weapons this guy had and the reputation he had at school, any attentive parent would have been aware of their child's obsession. It's not like he rushed out to buy a gun in a fit of rage before murdering all of those people today. There were clues and signs which the father either promoted or ignored. My judgment is warranted.

[Ms. Toad]

26. Do you know whether the parent was aware of the things you are alleging?

Do you know what interventions they did or did not take?

There are children who are so broken that no amount of intervention can fix them. Unless you are a close friend of the family, you don't have a clue about whether the parents are in any way responsible for what their son did.

[LonePirate]

31. The parent either tolerated the gun obsession or ignored it (knowingly or unknowingly).

That's bad parenting.

1. If the parent promoted or tolerated it, then the parent contributed to the gunman's obsession instead of working to reverse/end it.
2. If the parent willingly ignored it despite being aware of it, then he did nothing to stop the obsession.
3. If the parent unknowingly ignored the obsession because he was unaware of it, then the father was inattentive and not involved in his child's life.

All three of those scenarios paint the father as a bad parent.

For argument's sake, let's assume a fourth possibility - he knew of his son's obsession and worked to turn his son's life around. His efforts were insufficient as his son still killed nearly 20 people. He should have gone to the police if he was not getting through to his son. Regardless, he still failed his son and society. Parenting is the most difficult, demanding and important work most people will ever perform in their lives. It's not easy and if people are not prepared for the immense challenges that come with parenting, then they should not become parents.

[lostnfound]

33. Parenting sucks. You do the best you can, or maybe you dont; no one helps and everyone judges.

And you can’t say, “I’m not cut out for this job, can someone else take over please?”

I was a great parent from zero to ten. I suck for the teen years.

[procon]

34. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're confusing a parenting role of nurturing and encouragement with the duties a prison warden, a drill sergeant, or just a basic authoritarian. Some children have serious mental health problems, and that's not caused by bad parents. We know how this country deals with any sort of emotional disorder, the police will shoot first or imprison the mentally ill without treatment. So those children grow up to be dysfunctional adults, a fundamental failure of society to address a need.

Parenting is clearly not in your skillset, and children everywhere are peeking out from under their beds, asking if it's safe to come out now.

[LonePirate]

43. As a society, we need to stop giving a pass to bad parents like those of the shooter.

If the parents had taken action or made other decisions with regard to their son, today's murders would not have happened. They may not have pulled the trigger but they failed at preventing their son from doing that.

If the shooter had a mental illness beyond the gun obsession, the parent(s) should have sought treatment for the son. There are resources out there for those suffering from mental illness when it becomes life threatening for them or for others.

I'm not saying the parents caused any mental illness in the killer; but they certainly should have sought treatment for their son if a mental illness did exist. At the moment, if mental illness is a cause here, then the parents failed from the treatment angle.

And yes, our (American) society has certainly stigmatized mental illness and we woefully address the problem in America. That still doesn't detract from the bad parenting in this scenario that existed whether or not mental illness contributed to today's massacre.

[procon]

64. You're living just telling a make believe story.

Every point you've listed is based on nothing more than your personal opinions and unfounded assertions. You don't have any facts, you don't know the dynamics, so you're just making up a story to fit your belief.

[LonePirate]

70. By all means, share whatever you can about how the parents did everything they could to stop him.

I'll be waiting (and waiting and waiting).

If you want to denounce what I am saying, then explain why your opinion is more valid than mine. Explain to me how the shooter's parents were actually good parents. Once you tell me, locate a relative of one of the victims and see if they agree with you. I don't think they will buy the stuff you're peddling to them.

[procon]

84. OK, here; my opinion is more valid because you're just making up

stories, and I'm not, yeah?

Look, no one knows anything at this point, so what's the point of making up all these lies about people you don't even know? You're reacting emotionally, not logically, to a terrible tragedy, so just step back, be calm, and wait until the facts come out.

Even then, the public will never have access to the family dynamics or the thought processes of those people. I suspect that you will still not find an appreciative audience for your theories on parenting.

[USALiberal]

41. Please link to ANYTHING that proves anything you said! nt

[LonePirate]

47. I threw out every hypothetical that came to mind. Did I miss one that's on your mind?

By all means, share it. The parents either knew or did not know about their son. If they knew, they either didn't act or didn't act sufficiently. Either possibility is a result of bad parenting choices. If they didn't know, then why didn't they know? Inattentive or bad parenting is at the root of every reason why they didn't know.

Now if you can prove that the parents did everything imaginable to be aware of their son and to prevent today's events, then we can discuss this further. Until then, some of us are not willing to excuse the bad parenting which led us down the path to today's tragedy.

[USALiberal]

49. So you are just making up shit. I get it now. nt

[Ms. Toad]

51. You cannot judge whether someone was a bad parent

by a single spectacularly violent act perpetrated by their child.

For argument's sake, let's assume a fourth possibility - he knew of his son's obsession and worked to turn his son's life around. His efforts were insufficient as his son still killed nearly 20 people. He should have gone to the police if he was not getting through to his son. Regardless, he still failed his son and society.

Do you know the parents did not try all of these, and more?

Parenting is the most difficult, demanding and important work most people will ever perform in their lives. It's not easy and if people are not prepared for the immense challenges that come with parenting, then they should not become parents.

That's incredibly arrogant of you.

In perfect hindsight, I'm sure my parents would not have adopted two of my siblings. They caused too much pain. They would have caused that pain wherever they were - but at least they would not have brought the pain into our family and our community.

At the time, the best wisdom was that enough love can fix all that went wrong in early childhood. The best wisdom was wrong.

One sibling was diagnosed at age 12 as an alcoholic (in a home in which there was not a drop of alcohol available) and as a sociopath. He was in and out of treatment/juvenile detention/rehabilitation facilities starting at age 12. At least two residential facilities and one out-patient until he left home in his mid-teens. He lived in a bottle until he was in his 40s, and none of us would have been surprised to learn he had killed or been killed in a bar fight. He briefly crawled out of the bottle for a decade, but has fallen back in. NOTHING my parents did, including virtually everything you suggest, had any impact at all on the trajectory of his life.

Would not becoming their parents, by leaving them in foster care, have served my siblings better? Almost certainly not. I like to think they benefited from being in a stable, loving home - my sister certainly did benefit. All leaving them there would have done was shifted the targets of their harm.

My parents did not fail either of my siblings, nor did they fail society. My siglings' lives were simply so damaged and their behavior so beyond repair, that their fate was sealed by the time my parents entered the picture. In their cases, because of circumstances they encountered in the womb (one, probably both FAS) - and in the first 3-4 years of their lives (one had evidence, at age 4, of fractures that only dome from being beaten). But miswiring occurs for all sorts of reasons beyond the control of the parents, and some of it results in children who act violently.

I don't know the circumstances in this family, but I do know you are making a hell of a lot of judgments you have no basis to make and - having walked in that family's shoes - I can tell you that that judgment makes an impossible situation worsel. The judgment, pain, and shame, nearly caused my mother to take her own life.

[LonePirate]

54. I damn well am going to judge the parent of any kid who shoots up his school.

They failed at parenting. It's no different than the idiots who leave their guns unsecured in their house and a toddler comes along, grabs the gun and shoots someone. The parent is negligent in both situations. I am not going to excuse that behavior simply because they didn't pull the trigger. The law may not punish these parents but that doesn't mean I have to pity them or feel anything but contempt for their sorry excuse of a son who murdered all of those people today.

[USALiberal]

66. Wow, you scare me more. n.t

[Ms. Toad]

69. I hope you never have a child who disappoints you,

despite your best efforts to raise that child to be a decent human being.

Or maybe I hope you do - albeit with less dramatic harm to others. You might learn a bit of humility about whether or not a parent can truly control their child's action, or whether that child turns out to be a decent human being.

[LonePirate]

72. Their best efforts resulted in 17 dead people today. How is that not a failure at parenting?

Parenting involves not only protecting your own kids but protecting others from your own kids.

You can keep your sympathy for the shooter's parents. My sympathy goes out to the families of the victims.

[Ms. Toad]

82. Sympathy is not a limited commodity

Nonetheless, I am not demanding you have sympathy for the shooter's parents.

I am asking that you stop viciously blaming parents when you know absolutely nothing about their interactions with their child.

[procon]

86. And what if the parents of those victims have other children with mental health issues?

Do you want to call them bad parents too?

[LonePirate]

88. If their kid(s) shoot up a school and kill 17 people, then yes, they would be bad parents also.

[Ms. Toad]

96. So which parents failed?

A family member told ABC News that Cruz and his younger brother were adopted as infants, and that his adoptive parents are now deceased. His father, Roger Cruz died a few years ago, ABC reported, and his mother, Lynda, died last November.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/florida-school-shooting-suspect?utm_term=.emMmaVGzv#.ffN9VoBgX

The ones who died/were taken out of the picture when he was an infant?

His adoptive father who died a few years ago?

His adoptive mother who died in November?

The family who took him in after his mother died in November?

He was apparently an older adopted child (having a younger brother at the time he was adopted puts him at at least 9 months, more likely 18 months at the time). Eighteen months is risky for the long-term emotional health of a female child; it is even more risky for the emotional health of a male child. (The greater risk is mostly as measured in risk to society; females are more likely to turn their anger inward - males outward) All of my siblings have some emotional baggage from their early years; the older two (males) have more baggage that could not be overcome.

Because there were two siblings, this was likely a situation in which they were taken from a home that was unsuitable. (That is how we ended up adopting biological siblings at ages 2 & 4 - at least one of whom had FAS and was beaten)

At the time I started challenging you, I had no idea how similar the likely circumstances were to those in our own family, although it doesn't surprise me. A lot of damage can be done to a child by age 2 that cannot be undone - no matter how skilled the adoptive parents are.

So, no. His dead parents (all 4 of them) are not to blame for today's shooting.

[sarah FAILIN]

77. You aren't going to make this person understand.

Their point of reference is not anywhere near yours and I doubt they have any idea what families like yours go through trying to save a troubled child from an abusive background. No matter what the parents/Foster parents do, sometimes you just can't reach them,

[Ms. Toad]

87. You're correct.

I listen to people talk about adopting older children - and these children desperately need families. But the families need to go into it with their eyes open to the possibility that no matter what they do, their children may harm themselves or others. They may be buying into a lifetime of caregiving (when my parents die, I will inherit the caregiving rule for a sibling now in his 60s). I am not looking forward to that. Or they may end up with a delightful, mostly responsible, child who flourishes under their love - as my sister did.

The last time I had intimate contact with the adoption system, they were still promoting the "love cures all" mantra. That is not fair to either parents or children - a number of friends followed my parents' lead and adopted older children (rather than bringing additional children into an already overcrowded world). Some ended up trying to undo the adoptions because it was more than they could manage - and love doesn't cure everything.

But, of course, the person I'm chatting with is sure it does.

[lostnfound]

121. The father died years ago of a heart attack, the mom just died at Thanksgiving at age 68.

Are you done blaming the parents yet?

They were adoptive parents — are you going to argue that adoptive parents aren’t real parents?

Shall we blame the family that took him in after his mother’s death a couple of months ago?

The mental health counselor who tried to help him?

Age 68. Having a teenage son at that age without a husband must be pretty damn hard. But hey, she was a single mom (as a widow)..so maybe we can blame “broken families”.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

128. The father died some years ago.

You are making completely unfounded assumptions about what happened in the kid's childhood.

[janterry]

81. I'm sorry that your family went through this

and sorry for the victims family.

FWIW, I'm also very sorry for your brother (sincerely). I've worked with folks who have made mistakes - some that they could never fix. It's all heartbreaking.

[Ms. Toad]

83. Thank you.

It is a very challenging position to be in - and very hard to watch my parents go through.

[lunasun]

102. He has been dead for a long time . Died when the killer was young

[oberliner]

113. No, he didn't

Why are people posting these made up lies?

[pnwmom]

133. He died when the boy was four. But 1 in 3 people in Florida own a gun. And since

many more men than women own guns, probably half the men do.

So the kids there are surrounded by it.

[ProudLib72]

7. Lock him up!

Fuck him. Fuck his progeny. Fuck all gun humpers.

[oberliner]

114. His father died years ago

Why are people posting BS lies?

[superpatriotman]

8. I hear foster child on local news

And an avid hunter

[hlthe2b]

9. I have mixed feelings on this score... It seems increasingly like we NEVER hear anything about

the parents/the family of the shooters. While I don't condone public harassment, I would certainly think putting forth a statement through a family spokesperson within a few days of the ordeal should be expected. I know some are caught as "off-guard" as we all are and are suffering as a result. Still, if I were in their shoes, I'd surely want the world to know I was not oblivious or unfeeling re: the pain brought on by my family member.

The parents of the two Columbine kids were pretty much hounded and I'm not saying that is appropriate, but after the shock has worn off, I think we need to hear from the parents in some way.

[Ms. Toad]

60. That's a tough balance.

My parents were silent - aware that anything they said might cause the families of the victims more pain.

Even as my brother's execution date neared, my parents wrestled with whether to make a statement thanking the larger community for all of the support they received over the years - including from most family members of the victims. Ultimately one was drafted, then not used when his execution was called off within 36 hours of being carried out.

The balance my parents reached, generally, was to live with the blame publicly heaped on them rather than draw attention to themselves - which a small portion of the family member of the second victim would have resented. In their case, there were strong statements of support from most of the victims' families - and from mutual friends and family of one of the victims. It made the blame dumping from people who knew nothing about the reality of their lives, or of my brother's, a bit easier.

[hlthe2b]

76. What a painful and personal account you can offer.

That adds to both my understanding and conflicted feelings and I thank you for sharing it.

I am sorry for what you and your family went through but grateful that you had support and understanding--even from those you might not have expected to offer-- as well.

I didn't know your story, Ms. Toad. I think it underscores that there is no lack of pain across the spectrum of affected families. As much as we might want to find someone to "blame"--just to have some modicum of ability to comprehend the "whys" of what happened--it is clearly far more likely to be the case that families of a shooter are as stunned and confused as the rest of us.

[SoCalMusicLover]

10. Other Kids At School Noticed Trouble And Avoided Killer

But dear ol' dad had no idea. SURE!

Hope he gets to keep his guns.....precious.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

129. I'm sure the dead father will be able to keep his guns.

Do you suppose they were buried with him?

It's astonishing the ignorant statements that are being posted here.

[ecstatic]

11. Did he supply the guns???!!!!

LOCK HIM UP!

[MichMary]

12. I read the book by Dylan Klebold's mother

It changed my perspective on this whole thing. Kids do hide things from their parents. Add to that a parent's willingness to believe that everything is A-OK with their kid, it's easy to see how this could be missed by his father.

My heart goes out to the parents. They will be subject to death threats, lawsuits, judgment by other people, and it will follow them for the rest of their lives.

[Hamlette]

27. Ted talk by Dylan Kiebold's mother is excellent. Link.

https://www.ted.com/talks/sue_klebold_my_son_was_a_columbine_shooter_this_is_my_story

[underpants]

30. I'd never seen that

Thanks.

[Ms. Toad]

74. Thank you! n/t

[irisblue]

50. Yeah, that book is sad & scary& how well humans

Can hide ugly stuff in plain sight.

[procon]

14. Lots of wannabee vigilantes posting in this thread.

It's a scary read. Since when do we blame the relatives for the crimes of their kin? I thought I had blundered into an alt right forum where stuff like Constitutional Rights, due process and the rule of law are swept by the wayside in favor of hot outbursts and reactionary rhetoric.

[SoCalMusicLover]

19. It's Relevant Since Dad Brought KILLER Up Around Guns

Dear ol' dad is probably a card carrying NRA member, who believes in the 2nd amendment.

[malaise]

23. Local 10 said his foster mother died recently

I don't know the father's role in his life

[USALiberal]

25. No one knows yet. That is why this thread is disgusting. n.t

[TheDebbieDee]

36. So why are you still here in this thread? You have a choice, you know...

[USALiberal]

37. Because I can post all I want without your permission! nt

[procon]

91. Why can't people post here? nt

[procon]

32. So was I. True of my own dad, and probably a lot of families, too.

There are people in DU advocating murdering the parents. There's no way to defend that thinking in this forum.

[sheshe2]

75. I want to see a link to this statement.

"There are people in DU advocating murdering the parents."

If what you say is fact, they should be gone. I do not believe any Democrat on this board advocated for the murder of the parents.

[lunasun]

101. Hard to do since they are dead already. The father for a long time

[lunasun]

100. His father died when he was young . Why all the false statements ?

[obamanut2012]

123. Except his father died years ago

[USALiberal]

24. So true!!! This thread is disgusting. Idiotic lynch mod fools. Scary! n/t

[Hoyt]

61. Since white wing dads started introducing their kids to the white wing gun culture.

[ecstatic]

85. If the dad owned the weapon, he's culpable. Period.

Especially if he was aware of his son's mental health issues. There's no such thing as securing a weapon (or anything) when a child or teen is in the house. Believe me, they know the password. They know the hiding place.

[Ms. Toad]

89. I think it's only a few - they are just very vicious and very loud.

But yes, it is scary and makes me feel as if I wandered into an alternate universe.

[USALiberal]

20. Link please???

[Kali]

28. your rush to judgement is understandable

but still disgusting. parents don't always know.

[Generic Brad]

38. No privacy

He owns a piece of this horror too. Shine the light.

[USALiberal]

42. Both of his parents are dead......

A family member told ABC News that Cruz was the adopted son of Roger and Lynda Cruz. He has a younger brother, and both of his parents are now deceased. The family member said Lynda Cruz died last year.

http://abc7chicago.com/florida-school-shooting-17-dead-at-least-14-injured-suspect-idd/3084136/

So this OP is pure 100% Bullshit.

[mr_lebowski]

62. Maybe that's both his bio parents, hence the foster parents ... only that mother is dead ...

SO this is about his foster father.

[obamanut2012]

125. He doesn't have a foster father

He is an adult. His mother -- who was very afraid of him -- just died in the Fall.

[mopinko]

46. i wonder how many on this thread have raised a kid w a mental illness or

developmental difficulties. i'm thinkin not many.

i have. 2 of them. let me tell you something- it is damn hard to get help for your kid.
my son is probably schizophrenic. i couldnt even get him a good evaluation when he walked around my house w a 3 lb hammer, threatening to break down doors.
cops picked him up.
he got a 3 day hold, a "dx" of at least bipolar. but he is clearly more than that.
he stole from me. constantly. he self medicated w weed all day every day if he could. he is seriously paranoid, thinks he is a sovereign citizen. thinks alex jones has all the truths.

you cant make a kid get help. even if you get them into therapy, to keep you happy and keep you from kicking them out of the house, you cant make them tell the truth to the shrink. you cant even defend yourself when they tell the shrink about beatings that never happened.

you cant make them take meds. you cant lock them up, even if you think they are dangerous.
you cant protect his gf's 3 yo from him.

and it is a knife in the gut like no other.

it is way past time to stop blaming every parent for every kids mental illness.
freud was full of shit.
bruno bettleheim was full of shit.
misogynists spewing their own issues onto so many innocent, loving, caring mothers.

just stop this shit.

[tblue37]

53. +1. I know parents who did what they could for troubled kids who could not

be "fixed."

Sometimes parents do a lousy job, but sometimes there is just something deeply, irreparably wrong with the kid.

[mopinko]

59. sometimes they get a head injury.

have another kid who went through a ton of therapy, got a bogus dx, and turned out to have epilepsy from a head injury that seemed like an ordinary childhood bump on the head.
she wasnt paranoid, seeing people following her on the street, she was having seizures.
15 years of walking around w that, and even saw a pediatric neurologist for headaches and sleep problems. didnt find it until she was 21.
i often wonder what would have happened if she had been a boy.

there are just so many ways that a brain can go wrong. some of them are caused by bad parenting. but who knows how many?
not anyone here, that is for damn sure.

[underpants]

56. Thank you.

[H2O Man]

68. Thank you.

[Ms. Toad]

71. Oh, but you were a bad parent, failed your child and society.

It's hard when events like this happen - because you can just count down to the parent blaming. 3...2...1

[mopinko]

73. yeah, how dare this kid's parent up and die?

the nerve of some people.

[NutmegYankee]

115. +1

I understand the anger of others on this thread, but it is seriously misplaced.

[hlthe2b]

116. thank you for your post, mopinko. As helpless as I feel about guns, I feel even more so in helping

those families dealing with serious mental health issues. We have handcuffed families' ability to deal with these family members. I remember decades of issues my cousin's extended family had to go through and that included violence from a seriously mentally ill female member. Even living in small town rural America (where everyone knew everyone and would sometimes intervene when they observed her breakdowns), they were powerless to effectively deal with her.

I know how difficult the issue and how unfair and ineffective our country has been in dealing with it.

[irisblue]

48. Source? Where is your assertion from please. thank you in advance

[NRaleighLiberal]

79. DU - Democrats - should be better than some of the shit being spewed in this thread.

It is an embarrassment.

[demmiblue]

104. +1

[leftyladyfrommo]

80. I would have to wonder why

if you had a very troubled kid why would you keep a house full of guns?

These people had to know that this kid had serious mental difficulties. The kids at school all knew. And we may find out that he was under a doctor's care and was on medication.

If I knew a child was troubled there would not be any guns anywhere in the house.

But at his age he could get them himself.

[linuxman]

90. Man, lots of aspiring North Koreans here.

"Arrest the family for complicity!"

I used to wonder how lynch mobs formed...

[B2G]

92. WTF are you talking about?

Both of his parents are dead.

His dad died when he was young and his mom passed in November.

Stop.

[Kaleva]

93. Father apparently died many years ago of a heart attack

Mother died last November at the age of 68.

"Cruz’s mother, Lynda Cruz, died Nov. 1, after an unspecified illness. She was 68."

"Lynda and her husband, Roger, who died many years ago, adopted Nikolas and his biological brother, Zachary, after the couple moved from Long Island to Broward County."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-cruz-20180214-story.html

[Iggo]

95. I'm asking for the high-schoolers his son killed to not be dead.

[Ms. Toad]

97. How about you delete this ugly thread.

The shooter's father obviously didn't ask for privacy, since he has been dead for years. His mother died in November, and his birth parents have been out of the picture since he was an infant.

[lunasun]

99. Why did you start this OP ? His father has been dead for years?

[Bucky]

105. No, sorry, your son is a mass murderer. You don't get privacy right now.

We should respect the privacy of the victims shot by the guns you own. Mass murderers and their enabler so don't get privacy. They deserve every piece of score in the public can throw at them

[demmiblue]

106. He's dead, Jim. n/t

[obamanut2012]

126. It isn't his son, it isn't his foster son

It isn't his stepdad. He did not raise the kid.

The kid was 19.

[Bradshaw3]

108. There are times when some on here aren't any better than those they hate

It was verified hours ago and posted many times on this thread that his (adoptive) father died years ago and his mother died last year. So there was NO gun-loving dad who caused him to do this. He and his brother were taken in by a family who felt sorry for them. Yet some on here, one in particular, just couldn't let that fact sway them away from rage at a long deceased person - based on an OP that had absolutely zero links or verification whatsoever.

This thread should have been deleted a long time ago.

[obamanut2012]

127. I know, it is maddening

I live here, and this news came our really fast early yesterday evening, too.

[oberliner]

110. This OP is a lie and should be deleted (father of shooter died years ago, mother died recently)

He was taken in by family friends who have been cooperating with the police.

[LanternWaste]

118. That's getting into some really Old Testament-style sophistication.

The sins of the son being the sins of the father.

That's getting into some really Old Testament-style sophistication.

[obamanut2012]

124. His father died years ago

His mother did last Fall, and she feared him.

It isn't always the parents' fault -- some people are wired very badly.

[Bradshaw3]

130. Yes some people are just wired badly

The little bit I read about his adoptive parents makes them seem like people who were just trying to do a good deed by raising both kids.