Convicted teacher challenges law banning sex with students

[left-of-center2012]

Convicted teacher challenges constitutionality of law banning sex with students...

Charli Parker and her husband, both Pickens Academy teachers at the time, were arrested in March 2016.
(She) was accused of having sexual contact with a 16-year-old male student 13 times between October 2014 and a few days before her arrest.
She was charged with engaging in sex with another 16-year-old student at his home the following June ...

Her husband, James “Jamie” Franklin Parker III, 33, was accused of having sexual contact with a former female student six times between December 2014 and May 2015.

[CurtEastPoint]

1. The school's site: to provide a quality education in a well-disciplined, Christian environment.

uh huh

[MineralMan]

4. Ah. A private Christian school.

Well, then, I'm sure those teachers prayed about having sex with underaged students before doing that. So, it's OK.

[gratuitous]

6. The replies to the linked story are sailing down denial

I'm guessing that the Pickens Academy is not a hotbed of liberal thought or a leading advocate for same-sex marriage, but the commenters all seem to think these child molesting teachers are left-wingers. It looks like the late Senate election didn't have much of an impact on some minds in Alabama.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

27. go forth and multiply

And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

They stopped reading at that point.
Must go multiply, NOW!

[dhill926]

2. from the land of Roy Moore....

and Jeff Sessions....

[Initech]

3. Ah the party of family values at work!

[Iggo]

5. Me: How about you don't fuck children.

Them: But fucking children is legal here in Alabama. Unless it's one of your students. And we're trying to change that so we can fuck them too.

Me:

[struggle4progress]

7. Judge: Law banning teacher-student sex unconstitutional (2017)

Amanda Woods
August 11, 2017

... Morgan County Circuit Judge Glenn Thompson issued the ruling on Thursday — dismissing the charges against Carrie Witt, who taught at Decatur High School, and David Solomon, a former aide at Falkville High, AL.com reported.

The law, created in 2010, prohibits school employees from having sex with students under 19 — and violators could be charged with a Class B felony, carrying a punishment of up to 20 years behind bars, the site reported. The law requires those convicted to register as sex offenders — and consent is not a defense.

But defense attorneys have argued that the law violates teachers’ equal protection right under the 14th Amendment, because it treats teachers and other school employees differently than other citizens, the outlet reported. In Alabama, other adults who have consensual sex with 16-year-olds do not face criminal prosecution.

"The Court finds this statute unconstitutional as applied to these defendants," Thompson wrote in his order ...

https://nypost.com/2017/08/11/judge-says-law-banning-teacher-student-sex-is-unconstitutional/

[Volaris]

9. So the age of Consent there IS sixteen...

IF thats the case AND ITS THEREFORE LEGAL for any two persons over the age of 16 to have legal adult playtime with each other, AND there is an exception made for educators (but not ministers, etc), then I dont have to like it but yeah I think this particular pervert might have a valid legal argument...not fair for her to get time, and nobody else has to...

[struggle4progress]

10. (1) That ruling seems to involve 18-yo student so may not be on-point for the case in the OP,

which seems to involve younger students;

(2) That ruling is still under appeal, hence has little value as precedent; and

(3) That ruling will be over-turned, if the state argues its case well:

(a) Restricting sexual activity in certain contexts is not novel: for example, doctors may be sued for malpractice if sexually engaged with a patient, and sexual relations between lawyers and clients typically violate bar association rules

(b) In some contexts, it is appropriate to distinguish between a general capacity to consent and actual consent: for example, "She's nineteen and quickly agreed to have sex with me after I showed her how much damage my Lugar could inflict" may involve a person having the general capacity to consent but not actually consenting; and this dilemma can appear whenever one person has some potential control over another

(c) The question, of whether the state can regulate certain otherwise private activities, may depend on whether there are legitimate public interests at stake: many states, for example, criminalize sexual activity between a student and the student's teacher, regardless of the age of the student, in part to protect the educational envirpnment

[Nevernose]

11. Except it IS a novel restriction

Restricting sexual activity in certain contexts is not novel: for example, doctors may be sued for malpractice if sexually engaged with a patient, and sexual relations between lawyers and clients typically violate bar association rules

Bar associations, for instance, are private groups who make their own rules. There may or may not be any kind of sanctions, they may or may not even be made public. Teachers, too, in all fifty states have licensing boards of some sort, all of which are capable of giving the same penalty as a bar association: revocation of license to practice.

Doctors can, indeed, be sued for malpractice, but that’s a civil remedy, not a criminal one. In the Alabama case from the OP, for instance, a doctor could be sued for sleeping with a sixteen year old, where that same sixteen year old’s band director faces a decade in prison.

I’m just saying that singling out one profession for potential criminal misconduct while ignoring literally every other profession seems incredibly unfair.

And before you get too argue-y: I agree with every other part of your argument, including the piece you excerpted in a response below. I don’t think what those people did was right by any means, but we should either raise the standards for everybody or just flush “equal protection under the law” down the toilet. The way it is now, the accused isn’t receiving equal protection and neither is the victim.

[struggle4progress]

13. Charlotte lawyer disbarred after admitting sex with clients

Published January 25, 2017
Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. – A Charlotte attorney has been disbarred after acknowledging he slept with several immigration clients.

Documents from the North Carolina State Bar show Christopher Greene surrendered his law license after being confronted with the results of a disciplinary investigation.

The documents were filed earlier this month in Raleigh.

Greene said he has had sex with current and former clients over the past five years and that all of them were immigration clients who were especially vulnerable. He also acknowledged sending sexual and sexually suggestive messages to his clients.

Both actions violate professional standards for attorneys ...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/25/charlotte-lawyer-disbarred-after-admitting-sex-with-clients.html

[Nevernose]

14. Is he going to prison?

Is he going to prison? No, a privately run organization decided not to have him as a member anymore.

[struggle4progress]

17. The state bar here is not a private organization

And lawyers can certainly face jail terms for sexual acts with clients or potential clients:

Ohio lawyer hypnotized six female clients, then molested them
By Travis M. Andrews
November 15, 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/?utm_term=.56b543ed901b

Florida attorney arrested, reportedly exposed himself to, solicited sexual favors from inmates
POSTED 5:26 AM, DECEMBER 19, 2017, BY TRIBUNE MEDIA WIRE
... Andrew Spark, 54, has been charged with soliciting for prostitution, exposure of sexual organs and possession of contraband in a county detention facility ... "In late November of this year we received information that Spark was using his status as a lawyer to meet in person with female inmates in the Pinellas County jail and have taped video sex with the inmates for a fee," Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said ... Gaultieri said Spark "duped the system" by using a room reserved for attorneys and their clients to record sex acts with his iPad ... Officials said Spark was making a pornographic video project titled "Girls in Jail" ...
http://fox59.com/2017/12/19/florida-lawyer-caught-trying-to-make-porn-with-female-inmate-sheriff-says/

[Nevernose]

28. That was prostitution and contraband in jail

Not consensual sex between people (legally) of age.

And bar associations everywhere are private. They may have some government oversight, but bar associations aren’t run by legislators or even judges. They police their own.

Again: im not suggesting that having consensual sex with a minor shouldn’t be illegal. It should be. People should lose jobs. But only teachers have actual, criminal penalties.

Hypothetically, let’s say Student A had a brief affair with her thirty year old teacher. Student A is 16.

The teacher would go to prison, because that’s a crime.

However. Student A reports it to her doctor, who calls the police. They investigate and report to the DA, who decides to prosecute. The girl’s mother sends the girl to a therapist. They also decide to sue the school district for failure to protect their child. That’s all good.

But StuA thought the doctor was cute, so she slept with him. She thought cops were sexy and loved Law and Order reruns, so she had consensual sex with the cop who first interviewed her and the DA (who, for sake of argument, we can call “Roy Moore”). She spends a lot of time with her therapist and her attorney, has affairs with both of them.

All of them get fired. Their licensing boards have revoked their licenses and are now unable to work in their respective fields. They all get sued. All of these consequences happen to the teacher, too. Except the teacher is the only one of those to go to prison, be a felon, and be on the sex offender registry.

That’s reality, and that’s not “equal protection” for anybody involved in the case.

(For the record, I’m not suggesting we make it legal for teachers to have sex with their students. I am suggesting that we tighten up the laws, so that the law that applies to teachers applies to any professional who encounters a minor during the course of their professional duties)

[struggle4progress]

16. Profanity, not pedagogy

By Colleen Flaherty
January 15, 2018

Louisiana State University was within its rights in terminating Teresa Buchanan for cursing at students and talking about sex in the classroom, a federal judge said last week in dismissing the former education professor’s lawsuit against the institution.

Buchanan, a longtime tenured professor who was terminated in 2015, sued Louisiana State for First Amendment and due process violations, and for having what she described as overly broad, subjective and therefore unconstitutional sexual harassment policies. But U.S. District Court Judge Shelly D. Dick threw out all three claims with prejudice.

Buchanan’s "profanity and discussions regarding her own sex life and the sex lives of her students in the classroom do not constitute First Amendment protected speech, are not matters of public concern, and are not, as claimed by plaintiff, part of her overall pedagogical strategy for teaching preschool and elementary education to students," Dick wrote in a 79-page summary judgment in favor of the Louisiana State administrators named in the complaint ...

Rather, Dick said, the legal record suggests that Buchanan's "behavior and speech interfered with the educational opportunities of her students both in the classroom and in the student teacher or field setting" ...

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/01/15/court-rejects-first-amendment-suit-professor-fired-over-her-use-profanity

[Volaris]

23. I agree with all of that for sure, in particular point number 3.

There is a case to be made for exceptions. It's up to the State to not screw up that argument.

[struggle4progress]

8. Should Teachers Be Held to a Higher Standard?

University of Arkansas at Little Rock Law Review
Volume 36 | Issue 1 Article 4
2013
Katelyn Burch Busby
pdf

The girl liked her teacher from the moment she stepped into her tenth grade class. Older and wiser, he exuded the warmth and comfort she desperately sought in the chaotic high school environment. He remained her teacher throughout the tenth and eleventh grades ... The two continued to see each other during and after school. Then, one day, he made a move.

The girl, an Elkins High School student known as A.D., is now eighteen years old and the key player in the recent Arkansas Supreme Court decision focusing on the legality of student-teacher sexual relationships. In a landmark four-to-three decision, the court vacated the conviction of thirtysix-year-old former teacher David Paschal and overturned Arkansas’s statutory prohibition against the sexual contact between teachers and students less than twenty-one years old. As a result, students eighteen years and older are legally permitted to engage in consensual sexual relationships with their teachers ...

Rather than focusing on Paschal’s fundamental right to privacy, the court should have focused on the state’s compelling interest—a duty to provide a protected learning environment. Further, the court should not have focused on the jurisprudence involving privacy interests of adults because teachers occupy positions of authority over students that are not present in the typical interactions between adults ...

... The following is an analysis of the courts ...

https://lawrepository.ualr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1129&context=lawreview

[ProudLib72]

12. The position of authority clause is most relevant

Forget the age of consent. Should I be allowed to have sex with my students if they are all 18 and over? No, for the simple reason that it is an abuse of authority. There is no way a student and teacher are on parity in regard to power.

Reminds me of this:

[IluvPitties]

15. Well, if we are talking about adults it is a bit different.

I know several grad students who have married former professors and who happen to be colleagues now. I might not agree with it but there is no reason for me to judge them.

[ProudLib72]

18. I can see it happening a few years later

I cannot condone it while the person is still a student under the professor. You hear so many stories about that sort of thing.

[IluvPitties]

19. I know people involved in both scenarios.

In fact, in grad school, I was a classmate of a young woman who we all knew was dating our professor while being a student of his. She was in her 20s, he in his 50s, and it was not a case of she being an immature, impressionable young lady. She had a very strong personality and was not shy about the situation. His colleagues and us, the students, were uncomfortable about the situation because she was still a student and had an unfair advantage over us in terms of grading and access to certain info related to examinations.

Needless to say, he was denied tenure when he applied, mainly because of that. Still, she graduated and they moved together and today they have kids and work at the same school. They are good friends of mine and I wish them the best. They have been together for almost 15 years.

Lesson learned for me: Love knows little about rules or social conventions, so I try not to judge.

[ProudLib72]

22. There are always exceptions, no doubt about that

I would not call your earlier impression of the situation wrong or unwarranted. Even the school thought something was amiss if they denied him tenure. The safest route is to be wary of such relationships. But, hey, if a couple buck convention and last for 15+ years, well good for them.

[lindysalsagal]

21. Some things that aren't illegal still warrant dismissal from employment.

Colleges have had this going on forever. I doubt they want the bad publicity it would take to fire the profs....

[ProudLib72]

24. It seems like I have to go through online training every single year

And that training always includes mention of this particular situation. They put it under the "harassment" section and discuss taking advantage of the power inequality. However, I'm not so sure they would actually be able to prove its illegality if the relationship was totally consensual and the student swore there was no sort of power play involved. So I think you are correct. They couch the discussion in legal terms to stress the seriousness of the violation, but it's not completely illegal. At the same time, making it a part of the training is perhaps enough to provide them with grounds for dismissal.

I'd rather not put it to the test, though.

[lindysalsagal]

25. You know they do that so they can remain innocent of any employee wrong-doing.

It's CYA all the way. They actually don't care much beyond that. It also makes it easier to fire people.

But they won't want it in the paper if it's a college: Bad press.

[lindysalsagal]

20. Before I clicked it, I was thinking, Kansas. No, Tennessee....Oooooo, wrong!

Al-most!

[Mike Nelson]

26. The first case...

...is obviously wrong, and hopefully against the law. Even if the student is over 18, there should be no sex. But the other case - if the former student is of age, it's not my business.

[GulfCoast66]

29. Read the comments

Not surprisingly a pretty high percentage of Alabamastan residents think a 30 something year old teacher fucking a 16 year student is cool. Cause we used to able to marry u’m young here and should be able to again. And I am from Louisiana so no ditching in the south replies!

The irony is lost on them.

[Takket]

30. HAHAHAHAHA let me know how that works out for you.