Were the women saved in the Aurora shootings "Worth it"?

[kpete]

Last edited Wed Jul 25, 2012, 10:42 AM - Edit history (2)

James Taranto, the Wall Street Journal columnist who writes for their "Best Web of the Day Today" column, posted the following tweet yesterday, referring to the women who were saved by their partners in the Colorado shootings.



more plus a response:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/25/1113463/-Were-the-women-saved-in-the-Aurora-shootings-Worth-it

[spanone]

1. what the fuck does that mean?

[ananda]

5. It means that Taranto is the kind of person..

.. who would not be capable of thinking about
others in a crisis.

[Blue_Tires]

71. He probably hasn't even seen a woman since the last Mets WS title...

[Zalatix]

59. It means Taranto is an absolute fucking idiot.

He probably thinks those women were sluts, just because they were female. More negative points if they were pregnant and unmarried.

Fuck, I don't know what his major malfunction is.

Although he is only marginally more offensive than the dolts in the Kos response sections who were quoting Heinlein and saying that men are worth less than women.

Someone at WSJ please fire Taranto and exile him to an offworld planet. And parents out there, please at least temporarily yank your kids' keyboards who post that Heinlein bullshit.


Er, forget the exile thing. Aliens might spend a minute with Taranto and blow up the Earth to keep his disease from spreading. Where's a good place we can stick this guy where he can't continue to do harm?

[JoeyT]

84. The idiots in the KOS section

that were quoting Heinlein and insisting women are worth more than men, but only because the value of a woman is derived from her reproductive organs.

I think it's the first time I've ever seen people cram misogyny and misandry into the same comment completely unintentionally. They should win a prize or something.

[Zalatix]

89. "Cram misogyny and misandry into the same comment." Hilarious and dead on accurate.

[badtoworse]

2. They were in the minds of the men who sacrificed their own lives to save them.

That is all that matters. ETA: The question is pretty crass.

[Enrique]

3. does he want them to prove it?

to him? I shudder to think what is going through his head...

[Quantess]

33. Probably, it went through his mind.

He might be disgruntled in the sexual/romantic arena.

[Control-Z]

38. Might?

Is there really any doubt?

[Quantess]

78. I don't know the guy personally,

so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt....
But, I doubt there is any doubt of him being disgruntled in the "romance department".

[CBGLuthier]

4. Hmm, I hope the babies who were saved are worthy. No, no

No, that sounds just about as shitty as what this asswipe says.

[Lars39]

6. I hope the Wall Street Journal dumps this POS, he's surely worthy of the sacrifice.

[MADem]

26. Murdoch owns the WSJ. In that context, this dropped turd is par for the course. nt

[Lars39]

45. Ahh, that's right, forgot about that little bit of sunshine.

[xchrom]

7. asshole

[progressoid]

11. That's too kind. n/t

[cali]

8. wow. that is impressive stupidity and callousness.

[ananda]

9. Hmm.

This sounds like some sort of protestant religious strain
tied in with the idea of the Senex "God" and the doctrine
of the elite.

You have to earn your salvation, be worthy in some sense
decided by an authoritarian white male with a whim of iron.

This attitude is pervading Republican rightwing politics everywhere
that laws are enacted to control women based on white male
authoritarian fantasies.

[tanyev]

10. So James approves of the guy who abandoned his girlfriend and young children to save himself?

[deutsey]

20. Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand

Great classic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness

Had to read this tripe in a philosophy class in college. I think the instructor was a Rand zealot.

[MADem]

27. He probably identifies with the guy, and envies his running skills! nt

[Dokkie]

30. Do you approve of the woman who abandoned her boyfriend and young children to save herself?

cuts both ways man. Remember, we are all equals now and equal in their life's worth to children and society not just in the workplace.

[tanyev]

35. No, I wouldn't approve that either. But did that actually happen?

I don't recall hearing about it in the Aurora coverage.

[Dokkie]

40. Dont think it happened

But you asked the question in a manner that implies it would have been wrong for a man to cut tail and run when the shooting started. I have never been in such a situation but I cannot even start to imagine the amount of courage it takes for one(man or woman) to ignore every natural instinct of self preservation to save another spouse's life.

Ofc people who do this should be applauded but people who cannot fight off this instinct should not be ridiculed by society

[tanyev]

41. He drove. himself. home. after he got out of theater.

Her boyfriend dropped their 7 month old on the floor, jumped from the balcony, and drove himself home.

http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/07/black-news/jarrell-brooks-colorado/?fb_comment_id=fbc_10151053874804648_23318037_10151055383259648#f3e56849f94eff8

[Dokkie]

48. Just WOW

did that really happen? I can imagine someone running with the baby and then waiting outside the theater to see if the girlfriend survived. No excuse for such cowardice and good for the guy who took a bullet for a person who he did not know

[tanyev]

50. Yeah, I get what you were saying earlier about the panic situation, but this is shameful.

He didn't even wait outside to see if his girlfriend and baby made it out alive.

[Generic Other]

58. Oh! I saw him interviewed on CNN

He was crying, acting very upset to have "lost" the baby. He proposed to his girlfriend live. I thought she seemed a bit distant toward him. She was very grateful to the young man who saved her and her kids.

I don't want to judge what a person does in a moment of panic, but driving home without finding out what happened to his family was cowardly IMO. They didn't mention this to CNN, but it would explain the girlfriend's demeanor and the boyfriend's overly dramatic telling of events. I say overdramatic because most of the survivors were very calm narrating their stories.

[Fawke Em]

69. I hope that's the end of that relationship.

Geez.

[JI7]

86. is he bragging about it or saying they weren't worth it and that's why he left ?

[Control-Z]

42. I've tried to stay out of

the shooting threads and apparently missed that. Did that really happen? Do you have a link?

[tanyev]

43. See above.

Also in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021010481

[Marrah_G]

12. what a sick thing to say

[liberalhistorian]

13. So I guess all the women who've ever

ever sacrificed their lives to save their children (and I can think of at least five stories of that off the top of my head), in the eyes of this ignorant fuck, were unimportant and it's just what women are supposed to do? Good God, the blatancy of this rampant overt sexism coming from so many quarters nowadays is just beyond depressing and disgusting.

[redqueen]

49. Well said. nt

[Chorophyll]

51. Yes, for f*cks sake let's call it what it is: rampant overt sexism. Thank you.

Disgusting, crass, asshole-ish and everything else, but above all: sexism.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. I'm sure if they were your girl friends James they would have gladly jumped up and taken a bullet.

Am I right ladies?

[MADem]

31. Is he with child? He sure looks it!

The wonders of modern science...? Nothing is...inconceivable?



Birds of a feather, certainly.

[kestrel91316]

57. I doubt he has girlfriends, unless he's managed to con some poor

visually impaired thing.

[HopeHoops]

15. That's a really fucking stupid question. Of course they were.

[orwell]

16. So the victims were cowards for not rushing the madman...

...or shooting him in the head in the dark through clouds of smoke.

But those who gave their lives to protect their fellow human beings are questioned about the worthiness of their sacrifice?

Just another day in RW Crazy World...

[reflection]

17. What the hell would possess someone

to write something like that? Some incendiary statements are thought-provoking. This one just seems pointless and mean.

However, if we want to parse this garbage question, the answer is clear. Yes, they were worth it. If something is acquired, the payment provided is worth it to the "buyer," or else the transaction doesn't occur. These boyfriends decided that risking their lives was worth it to increase the odds of saving their girlfriends' lives. By definition, it was "worth" it when they stepped in front of the bullets. There is no other metric by which to measure this.

(I know, my grammar is bad, but this tweet really pissed me off and I don't feel like being overly pedantic right now)

[Enrique]

34. maybe he's going through a bad divorce

[get the red out]

18. Oh sick!

This guy is just sick, sick, sick!!!!!!!!!!!

If that's what he takes from this murderous rampage HE needs to get psychiatric care along with the shooter.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Good Christ. What godawful person would write such a thing?

Edit to add: Twitter is dangerous for people who can't stop themselves from blurting every dumbass thing that pops into their heads.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Taranto watches too many movies

"Earn this. Earn it."

[Arkansas Granny]

22. What a horrible thing to say.

[obamanut2012]

23. What a jerk

If he can't understand the courage and love of people who give their lives to save another, then he's the one with the problem.

[RadiationTherapy]

24. $10 it means sexually modest.

I know there is no way to "know", but the way the words "girls" and "sacrifice" are being used, it reminds me of how during war times, "good" women (girls) back home were "waiting" for their men to return. That isn't to say there is anything wrong with sexual modesty, I practice it myself, but I have my suspicions of what a "good, worthy girl" seems to be in this guy's eyes.

[seabeyond]

29. it did have that feel. my son on the other hand, brought this up yesterday

and we had a pretty good conversation of the gender roles that we can honor. not necessarily that they need to be, because we are beyond that. but, the roles both genders adopt that help balance out the other, for whatever reason.

it is a much more productive and interesting conversation with a 14 year old than what this writer suggests.

[RadiationTherapy]

46. Yes, in any partnership, group, team, or organization there are roles to be filled.

What was your son's opinions on the "who is the hero/protected" paradigm?

[seabeyond]

73. he thought it noble. what stuck with him, like with most of us, he also felt incredibly

sad. he thinks he would do the same. we decided that maybe it is a more human condition than gender that as human we protect the weaker.... like a woman would protect the baby or child.

he gets that in the world today, the woman and children first is not necessarily applicable (there are women that would be quite capable and helpful in an emergency situation. needed. jsut as there would be men that would not be helpful, stick them in the boat and out of the way). though, being raised in this culture he probably feels a sense of it, as a guy, since that is what is given to definition of man. but, he also does not see it as a mans role.

it is a confusing time for both genders, but especially the male gender. he knows there is time to speak out for females among his friends. but, he would do that for anyone. he knows there are times to step in and stand up for females, but again in bullying he would do that with anyone. he also knows about conditioned roles.

discussing this, i said, often the womans role is to do the emotional work for men. because of their conditioning men repress. it is not cause they are not capable. they may grouse about women doing it, but it is also valued and expected.

so we do live roles stills.... good and bad.

this can be extended in a lot of ways. we always appreciate seeing men help on the side of the road. a woman was stuck in ice and her young son was trying to push a huge suv on a hill. i was scared to death. a line of cars and no one helped. i sent 16 yr old son out to help. i parked and helped. another woman got out and helped. i am thinking, where are all the men. two old women and two young boys. we were disappointed in that. men are stronger and i was wearing slippery slippers.

i have taught my boys to always take that 5 or 10 minutes out of their time and help....

[RadiationTherapy]

82. This is really great to read. Thanks for taking the time with your sons...

and us. hahaahaha

[4th law of robotics]

67. I'd be interested to hear the conclusions of that discussion

Assuming total gender equality a boyfriend is no better or worse for ditching his girlfriend in a time of danger than she would be in ditching her boyfriend (but men are shamed for doing this publicly, whereas women are not).

/added caveat for this story would be their child. Obviously he's scum for ditching his kid. I'm just discussing the gender-roles assumed to be in play when it comes to sacrificing one person for that persons mate. It seems to be one sided.

[gopiscrap]

25. WTF what an asswipe

[HereSince1628]

28. That's very crude, with a shade of cruelty, survivors guilt will haunt

many of those who were in that auditorium.

Free-speech doesn't equal appropriate speech.

[seabeyond]

32. that is exactly what i pulled out with this. for the family of those that lost, and toward

the women that survived. exactly.

[southernyankeebelle]

36. How many times true heroes give their lives up for people they don't even know. How

sad.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. Seems like Twitter has forged a direct connection to the id

of the tweeter. People tweet comments that they'd used to say only among friends at a bar, and they never got any shit about it because the friends probably felt the same way. But if you tweet that stuff it goes to the whole world, revealing you as a disgusting pig to everybody, not just your like-minded buddies. In the case of James Taranto, his Wall Street Urinal scribblings have already hinted pretty clearly at his soul-deep douchebaggery, but this comment shows the essence of his raw, ugly self, unfiltered even by the uncritical eyes of Murdoch's editors.

[otohara]

39. He Calls HuffPost - Puffington Post in the WSJ

what is he 12?
I thought the WSJ was the grown-up paper.
I wouldn't take a bullet for this fat fuck


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444025204577547141392397120.html

[Chorophyll]

44. Shades of that guy who shot up a women's fitness center in Pennsylvania a few years back.

He couldn't get a date. I guess James Taranto falls somewhere on that same spectrum.

Twitter will be the death of many careers, and in this case... good.

[redqueen]

47. Interesting. I wonder if he's fond of The Spearhead.

http://manboobz.com/2012/07/23/mras-the-men-who-lost-their-lives-protecting-their-girlfriends-in-the-aurora-theater-shooting-were-suckers/

[Chorophyll]

52. I'd be willing to bet a fiver that he is.

Sure sounds like some Spearhead shit.

[RadiationTherapy]

53. The many disgusting comments have confirmed my suspicions: "good girls (women) are sexually modest"

Even calling it sexual modesty is my own tweaking of the label for the sake of not being incendiary. These people expect sexual loyalty from women at all costs and with all measures. Anything less makes them "texting, twittering whores who are already bouncing on the next cock" to synthesize some of the "thoughts" at your link.

Again, I practice sexual modesty and monogamy in my own home, but I will not tolerate any of these nonsensical throwbacks to when women were the sexual property of men enforced through physical, psychic, and social pressures.

[kestrel91316]

60. Betcha the jerks pontificating about how "good" girls are "sexually modest"

are the exact same ones frothing at the mouth about the horrors of Islam and how it treats women.

[seabeyond]

75. or the ones jacking off to their porn as there wife sits there being ignored. nt

[redqueen]

64. The guy who runs the blog at that link does an excellent job

of shining a revealing light on those kinds of sites.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. If I knew how to tweet, I would tweet ...

"I wish you were there!"

[liberal N proud]

55. That is sick to suggest such a thing

[ljm2002]

56. Besides being a reprehensible comment...

...he seems to have ignored news reports of women saving others.

One young woman helped her friend out of the theater while stopping the bleeding -- her friend told her to run, but she insisted on staying with her at great risk to herself, and was credited with saving the friend's life:

'Stephanie, 21-years-old, had the presence of mind to drop down on the ground with her, pull her out of the aisle, place her fingers over where she --where Allie had been wounded, and applied pressure the entire time while the gunman was still shooting'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2177470/Colorado-shooting-Obama-comforts-families-Out-darkness-brighter-day-come.html#ixzz21eEE7A1b

Another woman removed her belt and created a tourniquet, possibly saving the life of a man who had been shot in the leg and was bleeding profusely:

In another case, a man shot in the leg managed to flee the theater. A woman who took off her belt and made a tourniquet for his leg might have saved his life, Hickenlooper said.

Read more: Aurora police chief: Gunman acted with "calculation and deliberation" - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21130020/aurora-police-chief-gunman-acted-calculation-and-deliberation#ixzz21eErZ2Zf

People like Taranto are just so anxious to serve their own political agenda and warped view of the world, it is disgusting and sad and really, really pitiful.

[seabeyond]

76. i read one where a man was helping sons GF. told his GF and daughter to leave. his GF came back

to help when she realized not all in their group could leave.

[tawadi]

61. What a pig. eom

[lpbk2713]

62. It takes a special effort to be that stupid.

No one could be that damned ignorant just by accident.

[Spazito]

63. What a disgusting POS...

fits in quite well at the WSJ, a Murdoch POS.

[phleshdef]

65. I'm not violent. But I'd love to take a crowbar to this guy's face.

I wouldn't actually do it. And if I did, I'd probably feel bad after having done it. But thats pretty much the way this kind of shit makes me feel.

[Swede]

66. I hope I would be the kind of person that would go into the fire.

This guy's post is sad.

[Enrique]

68. if these women responded to him

it wouldn't be a bad thing

[backscatter712]

70. Wow! What a doucheclown! N/t

[polly7]

72. Disgusting thing to say, let alone think.

Those girls will battle with survivor's guilt as it is, they don't need some pig like this to make it worse.

[Alduin]

74. What the hell is wrong with that guy?

That guy is an asshole. He's the type that would never think of others in a crisis situation.

[Jamastiene]

77. They were worth way more than the person who tweeted that misogynistic nonsense.

Like any self respecting woman would go near that selfish creep.

[redqueen]

79. As if misogynistic creeps want anything to do with self-respecting women.

They hate women with self respect. They're only interested in women with massive amounts of internalized misogyny.

[nanabugg]

80. Is it worth reading any his rants? nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

81. WSJ means.....won't be fired

Right-wingers can say whatever they want without fear.

[TeamPooka]

83. wow

what a douchebag

[deaniac21]

85. It's a line from the end of Saving Private Ryan.

[HangOnKids]

87. He left high school to attend college but graduated from NEITHER

He reeks of loser.

[Incitatus]

88. Sometimes you just know there's an (R) at the end of their name by the questions they ask. nt