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Cyrano

(15,041 posts)
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 10:30 AM Feb 2018

"... the thrill of cruelty ..."

From today's NY Times.

President Trump’s most significant, and ominous, achievement in his first year in office is the corruption of the Republic. I don’t mean that he has succeeded in destroying the checks and balances on which American freedom rests. I mean that he has so soiled the discourse that a kind of numbness has set in, an exhaustion of outrage that allows him to proceed with the unthinkable.

The greatest danger from a man so unerring in his detection of human weakness, so attuned to the thrill of cruelty, so aware of the manipulative powers of entertainment, so unrelenting in his disregard for truth, so contemptuous of ethics and culture, so attracted to blood and soil, was always that he would use the immense powers of his office to drag Americans down with him into the vortex.

snip

Trump has lowered expectations. He has inured people to the thread of violence and meanness lurking in almost every utterance; or worse, he has started to make them relish it. He has habituated Americans to buffoonery and lies. He calls himself a “genius.”

If so, his genius resides in the darkest realms of the human psyche.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/opinion/trump-corruption-republic.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region.
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"... the thrill of cruelty ..." (Original Post) Cyrano Feb 2018 OP
Wow! kentuck Feb 2018 #1
In other words he sucks. lagomorph777 Feb 2018 #2
He reignites debate on the legitimacy of ideas we used to feel ashamed of. Orsino Feb 2018 #11
Excellent analysis! BumRushDaShow Feb 2018 #3
I guess it's not "love trump thursday" at the NYT. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #4
Eloquent. BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2018 #5
His supporters are ultimately liable Juliusseizure Feb 2018 #6
Trump was not elected. rainin Feb 2018 #8
Agreed. Voter suppression, "lost" and Cyrano Feb 2018 #19
A distinction without a difference. maxsolomon Feb 2018 #20
I didn't say the EC is unfair. rainin Feb 2018 #22
OK, then "we" (you) need to PROVE that OH, PA, MI were "stolen". maxsolomon Feb 2018 #23
its fairly scary if you ask me. We are slowly getting exhausted with all the BS going on. lancelyons Feb 2018 #7
Not new though... Caliman73 Feb 2018 #16
An eloquent response by Roger Cohen to that vile figure, Trump. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #9
He's their sadist sweetroxie Feb 2018 #15
It's incomprehensible to me that the Republicans are such lapdogs Sophia4 Feb 2018 #17
"Unerring in his detection of human weakness"? Wrong. Orsino Feb 2018 #10
Can you admit he has a talent for bullying? maxsolomon Feb 2018 #24
No. Orsino Feb 2018 #26
So true. Who could have ever imagined this after 8 years of Obama and the dignity he brought back to Pepsidog Feb 2018 #12
It was certainly a possibility. Caliman73 Feb 2018 #18
Powerful, insightful and freighting Pepsidog Feb 2018 #13
'Blood and soil' was a Nazi slogan. Aristus Feb 2018 #14
k and r. and saving to rerad when what passes for media makes me want to hurl something big and hea niyad Feb 2018 #21
Is there anybody out there who's sorry Cha Feb 2018 #25

kentuck

(111,097 posts)
1. Wow!
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 10:41 AM
Feb 2018

"... he would use the immense powers of his office to drag Americans down with him into the vortex."

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
11. He reignites debate on the legitimacy of ideas we used to feel ashamed of.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:59 PM
Feb 2018

Our media quote him, and in their attempts to appear fair (or to support him), they lower the bar on public discourse.

mountain grammy

(26,621 posts)
4. I guess it's not "love trump thursday" at the NYT.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 11:36 AM
Feb 2018

From one day to the next, the NYT blows hot and cold, or maybe it's just me.

Just read an article in the New Yorker by Bill Kristol, of all people. Got this takeaway:

Kristol trailed off. On the other hand, there was the ignorance and variability of the President and the darkness of his movement. Real power ran through it. “This is the problem everybody faces.”


The darkness has power.. this is a real and present danger. The NYT has also given that darkness power, and then tries to mitigate it. You can't have it both ways.

Juliusseizure

(562 posts)
6. His supporters are ultimately liable
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:41 PM
Feb 2018

He is all that, but that's what his 35% want. It's much easier to blame one person, but these voters, my fellow Americans, are amoral and severely lacking a moral compass. And I include several family members. Very fine people they are not. Not evil, just lacking in empathy and moral principle.

Trump was elected. He is sustained and encouraged to do his actions, and rejected if he compromises. This is not a dictatorship. This is intentional election of and unyielding support of cruelty.

He's carrying out the will of his voters, who all accept, and some thoroughly enjoy, the cruelty inflicted.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
8. Trump was not elected.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:46 PM
Feb 2018

We need to stop saying that. His surprise "victories" in swing states were engineered. It was stolen. We need to stop saying that he was "elected". (And to those who argue he was elected because of EC....don't. If the popular vote in each state had been fairly determined, the EC would have gone for Hillary.)

Cyrano

(15,041 posts)
19. Agreed. Voter suppression, "lost" and
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 02:19 PM
Feb 2018

uncounted votes, plus possible Russian meddling with actual voting machines, adds up to another stolen election. Strange how Republicans are always on the "winning" side of stolen elections.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
20. A distinction without a difference.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 02:44 PM
Feb 2018

Yes, the EC is unfair and undemocratic. But it is the system we have to work within, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

It's the same as those who come on DU and say at every turn "we must demand paper ballots". It's not going to happen without overwhelming Dem majorities, and we're decades away from that. 2018? it's an unhelpful fantasy.

We're at a peak of GOP power engineered by conservative money. "Stolen" is amorphous, and will not get apathetic voters to the polls this Nov.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
22. I didn't say the EC is unfair.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 04:51 PM
Feb 2018

I said the EC is the result of a vote count that doesn't represent the true vote count. The EC works fine when we run fair elections. When one side cheats, the EC is just the final rubber stamp.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
23. OK, then "we" (you) need to PROVE that OH, PA, MI were "stolen".
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 05:20 PM
Feb 2018

It can't be just a feeling. There needs to be actionable evidence.

Given RW power in those states and across the US, nothing will be forthcoming but theories and accusations, which are quite easy to discount when the RW Noise Machine works 24/7 to confuse the populace. Joe Average voter will not follow the minutiae.

For all intents and purposes, President Narcissistic Sociopath was elected. Put quotation marks around it if it helps.

 

lancelyons

(988 posts)
7. its fairly scary if you ask me. We are slowly getting exhausted with all the BS going on.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:42 PM
Feb 2018

The bar has been lowered. You can now be a piece of shit as president.

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
16. Not new though...
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 01:19 PM
Feb 2018

Trump's seeming hero (or at least Bannon's pick to be Trump's hero) Andrew Jackson was also a piece of shit. We've had a few POS presidents. The main difference is that WE are the people living through this time period and the stakes are higher because of nuclear weapons.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
9. An eloquent response by Roger Cohen to that vile figure, Trump.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:47 PM
Feb 2018

The headlines from 1933 remind us that the worst moments in history often seem banal at the time they occur.

And so it is with Trump.

We are fortunate that we live in the time of television and can see in Trump's expressions, in his face, who this man really is, his cruelty, his conniving, his cunning, his brutality, his ugliness -- there for all to see. He wears his sadism on his face.

The third of Americans who support him. Don't they see that too? Or are they too masochistic to care?

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
17. It's incomprehensible to me that the Republicans are such lapdogs
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 01:20 PM
Feb 2018

to such an obviously sadistic figure.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
10. "Unerring in his detection of human weakness"? Wrong.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:57 PM
Feb 2018

Trump simply projects his own weaknesses onto others, and sometimes it may seem to stick. Usually, it just comes across as yet another weakness of his own.

He has realized that some Americans like bullying women, minorities and immigrants, but that's not genius--it's just a lack of scruples.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
24. Can you admit he has a talent for bullying?
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 05:33 PM
Feb 2018

He does it to anyone in his path. He'll find a word to tag them with (you know them all), and he hammers it home. It's not particularly clever, but it proved effective.

It worked on his GOP rivals, and it stuck to Hillary. He still won't let it go. He's a tenacious asshole.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
26. No.
Mon Feb 5, 2018, 11:22 AM
Feb 2018

He has a penchant for bullyng, but he is bad at it.

Now, he has successfully used money to buy silence and to intimidate others into compliance, but that's purchasing power, not talent.

Pepsidog

(6,254 posts)
12. So true. Who could have ever imagined this after 8 years of Obama and the dignity he brought back to
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 12:59 PM
Feb 2018

the Oval Office.

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
18. It was certainly a possibility.
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 01:27 PM
Feb 2018

President Obama is probably one of the kindest, smartest, and comprehensively decent people we have had as President. Remember however, he was Black. I am not being facetious or hyperbolic here. That is a big factor.

A good portion of the country is NOT past the race thing and nothing that President Obama could have done, would have changed that. In fact, his successes were a spark for outrage for those people.

Trump is just the ugliest embodiment of that mentality. He is the quintessential "Ugly American", nouveau riche, vulgar, racist, misogynistic, anti-intellectual, but seemingly brimming with confidence while actually masking a sense of inferiority. That has been an attitude that has plagued America since its founding and Trump defines it, and shows us that despite strides in legal matters and mindset, we still have a lot of work to do with regards to race, gender, sexual orientation, and freedom from impositions of fundamentalist religion.

niyad

(113,315 posts)
21. k and r. and saving to rerad when what passes for media makes me want to hurl something big and hea
Fri Feb 2, 2018, 03:05 PM
Feb 2018
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