My community is blaming the Dems for the shutdown...quick...what can I say?

[Honeycombe8]

They are totally spewing the Republican meme, that it's the Democrats' fault.

I responded that

Trump spends more time tweeting than doing one of those marvelous deals he'd promised;
That there had been an agreement on the Dreamers, but the Republicans reneged;
That the Repubs are in total control of the government...THEY are doing a shutdown; the Dems don't have the power to shut it down.
The buck stops at the top, as Trump said in 2013.

True? What about "it's the fault of the 9 Democrats who won't vote with the Republicans"?

[RDANGELO]

1. The Republican control both houses and the White House.

The 60 vote threshold is a Senate rule; they could bypass it if they had the guts and 50 votes.

[TheBlackAdder]

58. Play the video clip of Trump saying a the President is responsible for a government shutdown.

.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/19/trump-government-shutdown-blame-sot-2013-fox-lead.cnn


McConnell was trying to be slick and piling DACA and CHIP together to make Dems pick one or the other, when both could have been resolved weeks earlier. His little trick failed as the Dems actually stood up to that Sophie's Choice scenario.

But, your community sounds like a cult, so no matter what is said, Putin is now Good and the FBI/CIA are bad. Poor Sarah Palin and FOX had been selling Putin as the bad guy until Putin actually started influencing their inner circle. Now, Putin is the Good Guy. They went from Patriots to Traitors in 2 years.

.

[bettyellen]

2. Mitch admitted they have no idea what Trump would sign - and now he says He wont sign anything?

[chillfactor]

3. very hard to argue

with stupidity.

[Honeycombe8]

6. True. But I feel compelled sometimes to state, like, real facts to 'em.

They always seem dumbfounded, when I do. They watch Fox...they really don't know the facts about anything.

[sharedvalues]

49. Engage first on Fox Propaganda

I’ve found it’s most useful, when talking to Trumpkins, to first talk about Fox and propaganda. I tell them that Fox News lies to get votes for billionaires — that the GOP is controlled by billionaire donors who want to destroy the govt so they can cut their own taxes. And that few Americans would vote for that, so the billionaires have bought media (Fox, Limbaugh) to broadcast lies and non profits (Judicial Watch, Citizens U) and think tanks to create the lies. That’s why Fox and Limbaugh don’t agree with real media, why every news org outside the US is laughing us. And I say they can keep watching Fox, but remember it’s all lies to get votes for billionaires.

Then I talk about the political issue of the day.

[Honeycombe8]

71. +1. nt

[sharedvalues]

72. :) Fox News lies - to get votes for billionaires

It works!

[brettdale]

4. play the 2013 video of trump

Saying a shutdown sits entirely on the shoulders of the president.

I dont have the link, but CNN played the video.

[lunasun]

8. Here from Mr Scorpio

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=476030

[Honeycombe8]

11. Someone else did that. It was good. Shut some people up. nt

[John Fante]

5. They had a bipartisan deal in place.

Gump shot it down.

[Honeycombe8]

14. +1. nt

[LAS14]

47. Absolutely. The blame sits right at his door. nt

[lunasun]

7. Ask them why dump rescinded Obamas DACA order to begin with?

The Trump administration announced its plan Tuesday to eliminate an Obama-era policy aimed at protecting Dreamers, undocumented immigrants who arrived in the U.S. as children.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a press conference that the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, better known as DACA, will fully expire on March 5, 2018. "The program known as DACA that was effectuated under the Obama administration is being rescinded," he said. "The policy was implemented unilaterally, to great controversy and legal concern."
Ask about the 4 republicans that didn't vote to continue like Paul ?
Let them know Kelly made the last min changes that killed any chance after Schumer and trump met

[Cattledog]

28. +1

[thbobby]

9. North Texan Here

I encounter the same scenario with a lot of people I talk to here. So frustrating. I wish I could give you some helpful advice.

What I encounter is people with very strong opinions that are based on prejudice, hatred, and lies. I often just listen and try to discuss ways that democratic policy helps them.

I know a young dreamer who works at your doctor's office. She told me how frightened she was that she would have to leave the only home she has ever known and go to live in a place she has never seen.

A farmer I know uses Hispanic laborers because they work hard and are dependable. He would be in deep trouble if he could not use the man who has worked for him for 20 years.

I know your daughter needs surgery and you have lost your insurance. The CHIP program will help you cope with this problem. It was enacted by a Democrat (kind of sneak this into discussion somewhere).

Just subtly pointing out the reality that Democratic policy helps them and the GOP wants to destroy policies they depend on. I have had some success and much frustration. It is a long uphill battle in my little town.

[Honeycombe8]

12. +1. nt

[Hortensis]

29. Much the same here. Except here in my

deep south district a very large majority will vote Republican regardless of issues. And are often very defensive about it. Politics has become a genuinely sore subject.

So when someone does actually bring it up I've retrenched to just regretting excessive partisanship, maybe bemoaning the disappearance of decency in politics, and that the parties no longer work together to get things done, like in the good old days.

Most people actually tend to agree with that kind of thing, which I count as a win in itself these days. Common ground, and leave it at that in case a Republican candidate comes along who sings that song.

[msongs]

10. 4 repubs voted against it which caused it to fail. tell em that nt

[Honeycombe8]

13. Yes, I failed to mention that. nt

[moriah]

55. Five -- Flake, Graham, Lee, McConnell, and Paul.

[oberliner]

57. McConnell only did so for procedural reasons

[moriah]

62. Either way, had the GOP had their coalition together, they'd have had...

... a 55-44 vote, given that on our side Donnelly, Jones, McCaskill, and Manchin joined Heitkamp in voting to for cloture.

Which would be a lot stronger ground from which to accuse Dems of being obstructionist.

Edit: actually, nice move, some of you five. If you knew the GOP couldn't get their coalition together, it gives us that "Hey, Dems weren't trying to be the same jackasses Republicans were with Obama" thing.

[oberliner]

66. The whole thing is so ridiculous

Watching the Senate last night was embarrassing.

[Nevermypresident]

15. Also, according to Schumer, he had a tentative deal today with trump and hours

later, Kelly called and said the deal was off. Of note, Schumer said part of the deal was he was willing to make concessions on funding the ridiculous border wall (which makes me sick BTW)! All trump has done is sabotage any deal from the get go.

Furthermore, I'm not sure you will ever get trumpers to concede that the shutdown is the fault of repubs and trump!

[world wide wally]

16. CHIP should have been renewed back in September but McConnell wouldn't bring it up for a vote.

Trump overturned DACA just because he's a racist who wanted to appease his base. He said. "Bring me any deal and I'll sign it." Then when they brought him one (Graham and Durbin), he just threw it out.

The GOP controls the WH, The Senate, the House and the SC.

Of course it's the Dem's fault.

[Honeycombe8]

17. Ah...I forgot that CHIP is a bone of contention, too. nt

[mr_lebowski]

18. How about the new version of DACA the GOP is insisting on requires every Dreamer to make 125%

of the federal poverty level, otherwise they're officially labeled CRIMINALS and hence subject to prosecution and deportation?

How can you POSSIBLY justify making an INCOME LEVEL ... a requirement ... for citizenship?

Nevermind, they're such hateful, mindless, knuckle-dragging fucks ... they'll somehow justify the 'fairness' of that idea.

So ... I take it that just punching them in the F***ING FACE ... is not an option for you?

That's too bad.

[Nevernose]

19. Why hasnt the greatest negotiator in history

Negotiated a compromise? Compromise is the sole purpose of negotiation.

Why did Trump agree to a deal earlier this week, then completely reverse his option a few hours later?

And wouldn’t passing laws be much easier if Republicans controlled all three branches of government? You’d think so, but all they’ve managed to do is give rich people more money. Republicans managed to do ONE THING legislatively this last year, which is a scheme to make poor people give rich people.

[RKP5637]

53. Trump, has well demonstration two things. First, he's an idiot and a fool, knows nothing about

what he's doing and second, unless he's trashing people, building buildings on the backs of others and cheating on wages, he's a loser. And, a fake president.

[Nevernose]

69. I was being rhetorical

If people I knew were blaming the shut down on the Democrats, those are the questions I would ask them.

That and “I forget. Which party controls all three branches of government, including both houses of Congress? I just can’t remember off hand...”

[RKP5637]

70. Yep, they are damn fools! n/t

[DFW]

20. Trump has a LONG history of negotiating and then going back on the agreed-upon deal

The Democrats, understandably, asked for some payment up front, which he agreed to, and then reneged.

If Trump keeps his word: no shutdown. If he lies: shutdown. The great deal-maker got what he paid for: nothing.

When your Republican friends find a car dealership that hands out BMWs for free, THEN they have an argument.

[lunasun]

21. Here is what Durbin asked on the floor after turtle did the same thing tonight

Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.) took to the floor after McConnell to blast Republicans for failing to make substantial progress after Trump tasked Congress with replacing the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

“So what has the Republican majority in the House and Senate done in the four and a half months since we received that challenge from President Trump? Nothing. Nothing,” he said

Ask them why republicans let it get this far and why Kelly turned hardline on the agreement tonight dump made earlier today? Do they think dems should just back down on everything? If they say yes then tell them that's the problem , no negotiation

I'm sure the stuff out by you is deep

[Kittycow]

22. I would just say that the Republicans passed the tax bill

without the Demorats so they also could have passed this if they really wanted to.

I like to keep things simple

[DetlefK]

27. The tax-bill could pass with 51 due to trickery. This bill would need 60.

There is a bipartisan bill. If put to vote, most democratic Senators and many republican Senators would vote for it. It would pass.

Except that McConnell won't allow a vote on it, because Trump is opposed to the bill.

[Kittycow]

31. OK.. I just saw your other post and

I'll have to go through it!

[Sophia4]

23. Why should Democrats vote with the Republicans????

There is no deal. They are not required to vote with Republicans unless the Republicans have a deal.

Remember when the Republicans led by McConnell refused to allow a vote or hearing on Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court?

The majority party is now the Republicans. They either have to pass the bill with their Republican votes and no Democratic votes or write a bill that attracts Democratic votes.

They have done neither. It's very simple.

That's politics.

Republicans are in the position to compromise. It's not the duty of Democrats to make the deal easy for Republicans. Republicans are in charge.

[pnwmom]

24. Tell them: The Republicans have a 51 vote majority but only 46 of them voted for the bill.

So it's on Mitch McConnell. He couldn't control the votes of his OWN team.

They need to go back to the COMPROMISE bill that Schumer and McConnell had agreed on -- before Trump torpedoed it. That would have gotten enough votes from Democrats to pass, despite the Republican deserters.

[Kaleva]

25. Just ignore them. They are not worth your time.

As "They are totally spewing the Republican meme", they are beyond help.

[DetlefK]

26. This: McConnell blocked a bipartisan deal that would have averted the shutdown.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210122320

[Deb]

30. "Republicans got this."

Smile and walk away., Keep it simple, they don't understand basic governing.

[Lunabell]

32. Tell them #Trumpshutdown trending number one

On Twitter. And #gopshutdown is #2.

[Soxfan58]

33. It's hard to counter

Fox news brainwashing. Tell them to read something unbias on the subject, or just read something.

[no_hypocrisy]

34. Republican reflex: Dog Pile on the Rabbit

[krispos42]

35. The Republicans set the precedent

Democrats are just using the tools that Republicans created.

[MoonRiver]

36. I don't know why you bother to engage them.

Chumpy has record low approval ratings, so I'm not too worried about his brain dead base.

[Cattledog]

37. The dealmaker can't make a deal. He owns this.

[handmade34]

38. hmmm

the Democrats being blamed for standing up for what the majority of us (United States Citizens) want and feel is the right thing to do??

poll after poll shows the majority of us want to protect DACA, NOT fund the wall and want to continue funding for CHIP...



blame is a funny thing when people are hurting and continue to be hurt... this is a no win situation for all of us

it is very difficult to reason with emotions and irrational thinking based on erroneous information

[Vinca]

39. Tell them their lord and savior Donald J. Trump has said it's the president's fault.

And he's totally right in this case. Trump was presented with a bipartisan deal, which he had previously promised to sign, and he wouldn't go along with it.

[phleshdef]

40. Move.

[workinclasszero]

41. Show them this?

Trump's comments blaming Obama for 2013 government shutdown resurface
BY JACQUELINE THOMSEN - 01/19/18 01:14 PM EST

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369756-trumps-comments-blaming-obama-for-2013-government-shutdown-resurface

[beachbum bob]

42. all you have to say is who is willing to negotiate and who said my way or the highway

trump, ryan and Mcconnel were not willing to any negotiating...a typical trump supporter could care less, they want government to FAIL, until they realize THEIR govt check stops coming too

[uponit7771]

43. TRUMP IS ILLEGALLY DEPORTING DACA CHILDREN RIGHT NOW !!! (Show them link inside)

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-administration-has-made-illegal-attempts-deport-daca-recipients-724842

[Mike Nelson]

44. Here's what I said to one...

...didn't they have a deal - maybe Trump wants to take media attention away from his kinky porn-star affairs?

[PJMcK]

45. Why bother?

You won't change their minds. Republicans don't do facts.

Besides, the issues surrounding the shutdown are actually very complicated. Trump certainly doesn't understand them and neither do most of his supporters. You cannot educate them.

This morning, a neighbor tried to call it the Schumer Shutdown. I just looked at him and laughed in his face and told him he clearly had no idea what he was talking about then I walked away.

As someone upthread wrote, you can't argue with stupid.

[Demsrule86]

46. They didn't have enough GOP votes with four Republicans ...five if you count Mitch...

not voting for the CR...tell your community that.

[maxrandb]

48. Are you able to move?

Short of getting the hell away from these "cultist" there's not much to do.

You may want to point out that we live in a Democratic Republic, not a dictatorship or authoritarian country (at least not yet), and they don't get to just do whatever the fuck they want. We are not supposed to be a country controlled by 32% of the population.

They've had an entire year with complete control of the White House, House and Senate...AND THEY CAN'T EVEN PASS 1 SINGLE APPROPRIATION BILL

I might also just add this; tell them that "this is America, we don't negotiate with terrorists" and walk away.

[sharedvalues]

50. Best response: McConnell blocked a vote on a bipartisan deal

There is a bipartisan deal with 56+ votes. McConnell won’t let it be voted on.

Why? Because he wants to try to hold kids hostage to get what he wants from Dems on other issues. It won’t work.

It’s a Republican shutdown because McConnell won’t allow a straight vote on hardworking immigrants. And he won’t allow a straight vote on kids healthcare. That’s the core issue. All the rest is noise.

[Worktodo]

59. Blame McConnell

It’s his fault really, playing games instead of trying to advance something.

A lot of Rs are privately (or in a few cases in public) upset that the entire government is being run month-to-month on CRs (kicking the can down the road.)

CHIP funding (or DACA) could have been done in December when the last shutdown was averted.

This is all games.

[rzemanfl]

51. "I'm moving." n/t

[SharonClark]

52. I'm curious..."My Community" - you mean the town you live in?

How do you know they are blaming Dems? What is your source?

[Botany]

54. Who controls .....

he House? Republicans

The Senate? Republicans

The White House? Republicans

The SCOTUS? Republicans

So if the Government shuts down who is at fault? The Democrats.

[ollie10]

56. Trump had a deal. He walked away from it.

[Tatiana]

60. Questions to ask: "Isn't Trump the king of the DEAL?" Why can't he get this one done?

How is it the Democrats' fault when Republicans control the House, the Senate, and the Presidency?

Why is it that when Republicans control government, it always seems to fail?

Why won't Trump sign the bipartisan bill that responsible Democrats and Republicans have already hammered out?

Who said "the buck stops here?" Does that apply to this situation? Where does the buck stop?

[randr]

61. Shut downs were never an issue untill

The tea baggers came to town. This group of temp help needs to be shown the door.

[VOX]

63. Rs control all 3 branches of government; this the 1st shutdown in American history where...

...the ruling party held ALL the marbles. THAT’S how inept Republicans are. They’re running this show, for now. Any and all foul-ups (like shutdowns), are on them.

So go ahead, Republican assholes. You’re always screaming about how LESS government is best. Here’s your chance now— it’s shut down. So, “own” the quiet and enjoy it. Be happy in your work.

[Stuart G]

68. YES.....VOX, HAS THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.....

Tell people that believe that the Democrats are responsible, the first 4 sentences in post number 63 in this thread. That is the answer to what to tell people who believe the lie about Democrats being responsible. Tell the truth, over and over again. Ask, "Who controls two major branches of government? The executive and legislature? Or..make it simple. Who controls the White House and the House of Representatives and the Senate.???

Over and over..tell the truth. and............ THAT IS THE TRUTH

Plain and simple for all to seel

[Lil Missy]

64. Dont cast your pearls before swine.

[kydo]

65. Nothing. But you can give a first gut instinct reaction full belly explosive LOL

Then point at them and LOL some more. Tell them they missed their calling as comedian as that was a really good joke. Then walk away LOL and uttering stuff like, "wow that was good hahaha, weak powerless snowflake loser dems did this hahaha."

[quickesst]

67. I would tell them...

........ look at the facts, or wallow in your own willful ignorance. I don't give a shit one way or the other. "Now watch this drive!"