Dems walking into a trap? DACA vs Government Shutdown

[superpatriotman]

The Dream Act is a noble and just cause undoubtedly, but how much should Democrats be willing to give up for it?

It seems to be the only issue on their minds.

Is it a party messaging problem, or is it an emergency issue affecting the entire base that Democrats are willing to fight till the death for and risk having it used against them by the right wing noise machine in the primaries?

I'm sure leadership understands we don't have the numbers on this. Am I being too cynical given the systematic dismantling of the Federal government by regressives?

Please discuss with or without snark.

[wasupaloopa]

1. I think the Dems are bluffing but for a good cause.

I heard yesterday that the House could pass an continuing resolution thus avoiding a shutdown and bypassing the Dems.

[onenote]

19. Nothing passes without both the House and Senate.

What you heard is wrong.

[Hortensis]

55. :) Just a little detail. And DACA is a trap Democrats set

for Republicans to trigger. Not that it was meant to be a trap when designed, only that that is how it's playing out now, and of course not by accident. Same for CHIPS.

The GOP is in trouble. And profoundly incompetent. This is their 4th attempt, not to actually pass a bill to fund the federal government, but to merely delay its deadline.

[brush]

47. We must hold out for DACA. The Latino vote is a critical part of our base...

so we can't allow ourselves to be cowed by the repugs or we'll regret it come the 2018 mid-terms.

Remember, they are in charge of every branch of government.

They will get the bulk of blame.

And what seems to be being overlooked is what happens if there is a shutdown?

If there is we can't afford to just cave then.

We have to get a fair DACA deal.

We have to stand fast.

If a shutdown happens and government checks stop coming the repugs will cave over the public outcry

because, as I said, they will be blamed because they run every fu_king thing (and because of this there

probably won't be a shutdown).

Don't panic, people.

[Demsrule86]

63. I don't think they can...or they would have done so.

[brooklynite]

2. The bigger issue is that this week's DACA debacle shows the President can't be trusted on any deal.

[superpatriotman]

3. Shouldn't that be the party message?

Sometimes it feels squishy and milquetoast (the messaging)

[JI7]

11. the problem is people who claim to be democrats blaming democrats for what

a republican controlled congress does.

[Wwcd]

31. + a million.

I see a few new threads on Democratic Underground just now, all blaming the Democratic Party.
Makes you wonder who's side some are really on.

Thanks for your post.

[NCTraveler]

46. It is a part of the party message.

Do you really need to be shown. This comment of yours here shows you aren't even paying the slightest of attention.

[Laf.La.Dem.]

4. Is it possible to keep the government open with only Republican votes?

[Lee-Lee]

15. No. 60 votes needed in the Senate

That is our leverage to get something from this.

[Laf.La.Dem.]

18. Thanks!

[Gothmog]

5. If Democrats do not support the Dreamers, then they are cowards

Shutting down the government to support DACA and Dreamers is the right thing to do

[Wwcd]

33. Who stands up for them if not the Democrats. THAT is what the Dem Party is about!

Its what they have always been about.
The line is drawn at 'Human Rights.'

[bdamomma]

42. I think so too

Democrats have to remain strong on this. Too many Dreamers/Daca recipients out there to screw them over.

Horrible how ICE is deporting people too after they spent their lives in the country too. We are becoming a vile country.

[brer cat]

69. +1000000 nt

[jambo101]

6. Dont the repubs have a majority?

And if the gvmnt shuts down why is it the Dems fault when repubs can just vote for anything they like?

[jambo101]

7. seems no one can answer

Seems like a simple question, as a Canadian am i missing something?

[JI7]

12. no, you aren't missing anything. the republicans got their tax scam through

without democratic support.

[onenote]

20. Different set of rules. It didn't 60 votes to proceed. This does.

[JI7]

21. They should have thought about that.

[Lee-Lee]

24. They did. They think they can say Democrats shut it down for illegal aliens

And that people will not side with us.

It’s a gamble on both sides to see how the nation reacts.

They will be showing all the Servicemembers who are not getting paid and say “Democrats chose to make them go without pay because they care more about illegal aliens” and all the similar nonsense.

I just hope our folks have a better and stronger message about why it’s the right thing to do and they can effectively get it out there.

[avebury]

25. And the Dems need to take a page out of Lindsey Graham's playbook

and their mantra should be that relying upon a series of continuing resolutions hurts the military (as the military has pointed out).

They should respond back that the Republicans (as the party that controls the WH, House and Senate) need to put their big boy pants on and develop a full budget. And when the Republicans complain about the Dems wanting to put money into programs that help people and will thus blow up the deficit the Dems should respond: that ship sailed when the Repubs passed that massive wealth giveaway to the Corporations and 1%ers. Repubs care more about themselves and the wealthy then the military and the masses.

[superpatriotman]

27. Then that's what the message should be

The voters need to be told over and over that the regressives don't give a hoot about them.

The voters need to be reminded that .45 is an unstable, untrustworthy charlatan.

[Demsrule86]

59. Also it doesn't fund anything but the military.

Yeah CHIP is in their for sweetener...but it is not enough.

[Farmer-Rick]

36. Bernie said that the bill before them

Is one big military spending bill and does Not include funding for opiod epidemic, DACA, disaster relief and infrastructure.

So it is an incomplete bill that does not address significant American problems.

[Lee-Lee]

14. Because in the Senate Democrat votes are needed to pass a budget deal

It will take 60 votes to pass in the Senate, so if all 51 Republicans are on board they need 9 Democrats. McCain probably won’t be there to cast a vote so now they need 10 Democrats on board minimum.

They can’t pull the same reconciliation crap on a budget bill like they did with the tax scam.

That is why we have leverage here to demand something in exchange.

[Demsrule86]

54. They don't have 50 votes. I am sure McConnell would blow up the filibuster if it would help but it

won't. They don't have the votes from their own party.

[Amishman]

8. I have very mixed feelings on immigration, DACA isn't worth being at fault for a shutdown

I know I will get flamed for this, but its how I feel.

My reason for misgivings is that open immigration (mostly documented and not as much undocumented) allows companies to bring in cheaper foreign workers to keep wages down. H1B workers have really done a number on the IT industry, i've seen this first hand. If more avenues for legal immigration are opened, I fear they will be exploited with the same result. I know this is not the issue at hand, but I wanted to explain why I have mixed feelings on this overall topic.

[JI7]

10. Republicans control congress. if there is a shut down it's their fault. they were able to get their

tax scam through .

[Le Gaucher]

32. The were bought in as kids .. This is the only country they know. Still have misgivings?

This is about messaging. If they stick together and win the battle ..it will be a profound show of strength.

It will invigorate the base and demoralize Pukes.

I say hold fort and win this battle.

Come November we can go on full offense. No need to be nice. We will pay back Benghazi with 200% interest.

I want Republican blood.. I want us to DESTROY those bastards. They have let Russia take over our presidency and are preventing full accounting.

[Wwcd]

34. Thank you. K & R your post

+ a milliom

[Demsrule86]

65. DACA is about kids brought here who have never known another country...many will die if sent back...

so it has nothing to do with anything you discuss. And the fact is if we had an immigration policy that included sanctions for employers who hired illegals, we would be fine...and consider that Trump brings in foreign workers...apples and oranges. DACA is a separate issue and our constituency supports this...fuck the 10% (GOP 'base' )who don't...also...Trump wants to send those kids back now...he went to court to be able to do so. We need to stop this if we can.

[kcr]

70. Well, at least you'll realize you'll get flames for blaming Dems for something that isn't their faul

At least you don't feel entitled to come here and claim it's our fault for this shut down without getting flamed for it. Points for that. Take your well-deserved lumps. Sometimes that's the path to knowledge.

I'd also like to know why Dems shouldn't care about children being punished and at times even killed through no fault of their own? What, exactly, are we supposed to stand for? Mixed feelings about this? I can't even fathom it.

[JI7]

9. Democrats don't control congress

[Lee-Lee]

13. Republicans control Congress but in the Senate Democrat votes are needed to pass the bill

They can’t go nuclear on a budget deal. They can use the reconciliation scam like they did with the tax bill.

They need 60 votes in the Senate, they only have 51 and one is gone home never to come back to DC.

That is our leverage right now.

[GulfCoast66]

16. Totally disagree

How many times are we supposed to say ‘thank you sir, can I have another’?

Trump told the legislators work a deal and I will sign it. So several Senators did. A deal that fixed DACA. And then were ambush in that now famous White House meeting.

They should learn to count on no Democratic votes until they can at least negotiate honestly.

And there are Republicans insisting on DACA as well.

They spent a year shutting out Democrats and besides the tax bill accompanied nothing! Now the want us to roll? Fuck them!

The entire nation knows they are responsible for all branches of government. That means at times being able to master the art of the deal.

[GoCubsGo]

23. They also spent the previous several years obstructing President Obama.

Good to see the Democrats standing united to give them a taste of their own medicine. Yep. Fuck them.

[superpatriotman]

29. I agree - fuck them

But you're deflecting from my OP

[Wwcd]

35. Deflecting? You asked for a discussion. This is all part of a discussion.

[GulfCoast66]

68. Sorry I did not give your OP the love, care and response you were looking for.

You brought up the shutdown and I gave the opinion I felt like giving.

I really do not care if they try to blame us. And to me it is not about DACA or chip mainly. But they have been negotiating in bad faith. Until that changes we should oppose everything.

[gabeana]

73. That was not deflecting

at all,
The Latino base of the Democratic is a core base.
Without the Latino Vote we don't win

and beside DACA is the right thing to do

[Mr. Ected]

17. Republicans knew that it would take Democrats to avoid a government shutdown

And yet they marginalized and ostracized the Dems in both the ACA repeal and replace debate and the tax cut debacle.

Now they're reaching out and wanting us to play along to help them save face. Fuck them. Let them stew in their own fetid juices. The GOP has recklessly shut down the government in the past. Fuck them if they haven't figured out that if you need Democrats as allies in Congress, you can't turn your back on them for every other legislative action.

[JI7]

22. Exactly, and the worst thing was what happened with the Supreme Court Seat

[superpatriotman]

30. I agree

The optics are what bother me. DACA can sure be a part of it, but there's so much more.

[Demsrule86]

49. The optics are fine. People don't want a wishy washy Democratic Party..Ryan and McConnell thought

they could roll us and we ar showing them they can't...orange asswipe is going to Florida and holding a fund raiser and a celebration of his first shitty year...now that is bad optics.

[hatrack]

64. Optics? What, Fox News is going to say bad things 'bout the Democrats?

Who gives a damn?

If the Democrats won't stand up for Dreamers, and in doing so show that they will fight for a key and growing voting bloc, will they ever stand up for anyone?

Shitstain and his enablers want chaos while chattering about "responsibility"? Fine, give it to them.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

51. That's true

but it's also too much for the MSM to have to detail- and for Trumpers to have to wrap their heads around.

What about Trump basically abandoning his leadership responsibilities to (once again) go to Mar-A-Lago to celebrate (what?) his first year in office and personally enrich himself? THAT alone should be a scandal!

[rso]

26. Shutdown

Republicans showed us that obstruction pays. Years of obstructing Obama and yet republicans picked up seats in the House, Senate, Governorships and State Legislatures.

[Farmer-Rick]

39. Good point

Repukes shut down the government with no repercussions. So Dems should stand tall and NOT vote for this bill.

Aside from DACA, the bill is simply one massive military spending bill. It does NOT include funding for disaster relief, opiod epidemic, infrastructure and other problems are not funded.

[Demsrule86]

50. It is a shitty bill and only those Dems at risk in red states should vote for it...we have the votes

no reason for them to walk the plant and risk their re-election. We need all of our Dem Senators to hold in 18.

[bluestarone]

37. i see more on the line here IF DACA isn't included NOW the

The SC will rule against the Judges decision that the administration can't do what they intend on doing with DACA. That's why it's so very important more than ever!!!! HOLD THE LINE!!!! SHUT IT DOWN NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just my thoughts on this

[malaise]

38. 87% of Americans support DACA

11% are against it per CBS poll.

That is all.

[onecaliberal]

40. The republicans dont need Dems. The fact is republicans are NOT on board with their own bill.

Senator McCain is out, Lee, Cruz, and Paul are no’s. To blame this on Dems is a false narritive created by the media and republicans to deflect. Their base is so low info this crap flies every time.

[Anny61]

41. It is that callousness of human life that is the difference with a Democrat and Republican.

[haele]

43. As much as it hurts, Democrats need to make a stand.

The budget has been sputtering along on "Continuing Resolutions" off and on for the past 9 years, DACA or not, ACA and health care funding or not, Military budget or not - and it's been the Republican's fault. The last time a complete Federal budget was passed was 2009 - and that was when the Democrats were the majority in the Legislature.
Once "We're going to make sure Obama is a one-term president" McConnell took control of the Senate, it's been dribbles and drabs of appropriation bills passed, and it became even worse once we lost the House.
The Republicans have owned the Legislature and the Budget since the end of 2009. That needs to be hammered home.

Haele

[dawg]

44. DACA is as good a hill to fight and die on as any.

Who knows, they might even blink first.

If not, well hell, let it all burn. It was fucked anyway.

[NCTraveler]

45. You are requesting that the Democrats take part in an act of cowardice...

While using language that references them as cowards for fighting. This is transparent.

[Demsrule86]

48. Dems are not giving up anything...Trump went to court so he could begin deporting Dreamers now.

you want a million kids sent to countries they have never known? This is worth fighting for. Fuck the GOP...they dangled CHIP in front of us thinking we would cave, I am proud of our Democrats.

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Its a 90-10 issue. They're doing fine. But thanks for worrying on their behalf.

[Eliot Rosewater]

53. The promises made to them, in many cases their very LIVES being at stake if deported?

Nah, no thanks, we should be willing to give up EVERYTHING to protect them.

That is how real democrats roll.

Count me in to do ANYTHING I have to do to protect them, I dont want to see ONE more video of a family being torn apart, although maybe we should do that to some so called citizens and see how they like it, they have NO more right to be here than anyone else.

[Demsrule86]

57. I am proud to be a Democrat because like you said that is how we roll...let's roll!

[Eliot Rosewater]

58. See you tomorrow, if not in person in spirit.

A blue wave is not enough, we need to be MAD as hell about what these traitors have been doing to not just the system of government but the least powerful among us.

[Demsrule86]

62. See you tomorrow...Hubs is home for the first time in two weeks...he took a job in Cleveland an

hour and a half away...so much snow he couldn't come home. But we are going to the Youngstown March...didn't have the money to go to Washington this year...went last year as we were unemployed in the fall.

[Anny61]

66. Correct. There is a right and wrong here. I/my party is not going to be on the side of wrong.

[Evergreen Emerald]

56. It is an attempt by Repubs to stem the Blue Wave

The Republicans are blaming the Dems for the shut down to lessen the enthusiasm for the Dems in the next election by blaming them for this shutdown.

And the media is complicit. I watched Cuomo last night suggesting that both the Dems and the Republicans are blaming each other but who is right? Without of course considering the history of the DACA end and what has been going on the children's healthcare.

Seriously.

[Orsino]

60. CHIP and the Dreamers' peril are entirely Republican creations.

The Republican Congress has had ample time to resolve them without artificially connecting them to their failure to pass a budget.

[cilla4progress]

61. Isn't CHIP a factor, too?

that is, the argument that the Rs could pass a clean CHIP, but are cynically tying it to the budget to make Dems look bad for voting against.

[beachbum bob]

67. either stand on principles or just surrender, I have seen too many democrats surrender

[Kirk Lover]

71. I think they should just go along now - get the CHIP - keep reminding people how fucked

up it is that R's used this CHIP as a political pawn. Then next month..THAT'S IT...HEELS IN. PERIOD.

Please note I'm not politically savvy...so I trust "Shut the bullshit down" Schumer and "Pants em" Pelosi et al to know how to deal w/ this bullshit...so whatever they want to do I'm behind them 100%.

[kentuck]

72. I think it is a tough issue in the short run but a winner in the long run.

Do we accept "Dreamers" as Americans or do we not ??