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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGun violence turns GD into a really sick place.
Just my opinion.
Lounge-bound.
Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)
Post removed
onehandle
(51,122 posts)They're already here!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Time to shove them back in and lock the door more securely.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)So, please don't mind me, I'm just looking for that type of threads.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)I'm off to enjoy the LOL Cat universe, where things make sense.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...to permit the vast majority of DU to express its collective disgust at our failed gun control policy that again allowed a madman to obtain a small armory.
I wish Admin would crack the whip and ban a slew of these fools.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)I hope that you never have the courage to disagree with any "official policy" or you too may find yourself on the cold outside.
"If they don't have the same beliefs as me, BAN THEM. I do not like having my ideas challenged."
patrice
(47,992 posts)treated.
An authentically strong position can relate to complexity and difference. Weak positions exclude challenge.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)But most in the Gungeon see nothing wrong with our current federal regulations and if they could would tear down regulations in state's with stricter laws. They oppose bans on the over-the-counter sale of high-capacity magazines such as the drum used in Colorado and the 33-round clips used by Jared Lee Loughner. They oppose the assault weapon ban that has been a centerpiece of Democratic gun control policy for two-decades. They oppose requiring stringent regulations for concealed permits. In short, they oppose policies that overseas still allow responsible gun ownership while dramatically reducing the number of homicides. If you take the next ten comparable nations and total their annual homicides they still do not surpass our 10,000 dead figure that has held steady for over a decade.
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Tough shit - this is a privately operated website with it's own set of rules. This isn't 4chan, this isn't Free Republic. Extreme libertarians and Republicans should go elsewhere.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)"they could would tear down regulations in state's with stricter laws"
"They oppose bans on the over-the-counter sale of high-capacity magazines"
"They oppose the assault weapon ban"
"They oppose requiring stringent regulations for concealed permits."
"they oppose policies that overseas still allow responsible gun ownership"
WOW ...you really know them huh. Fortunately you don't own or control this site. Democrats are gun owners too. I don't see any rules that forbid gun owners from joining DU. Tough shit and too bad if you don't like it. Thanks for trying to make DU gun owners unwelcome here. BTW here's a quote from those rules you posted: Remember: DU is supposed to be fun don't make it suck.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)(Note: Edited to remove factual inaccuracy in the header)
And if that didn't penetrate your overdeveloped sense of self-importance, I'd invite you to consider what similar "purity demands" did to the Republicans...
krispos42
(49,445 posts)...have been exhaustively debated. Are you upset that they were debated? Or just upset that your tenet of faith keeps getting torn down each time you leave the echo chamber?
And you really don't ask for alternatives, in case you didn't notice. They have been proposed, but whenever you make a list of things you want to see done, it's ALWAYS the same list of debunked or ineffective crap, and never anything else proposed.
Here's a partial list of stuff that just falls down the memory hole:
"Assault weapons" ban. Stop trying to twist yourselves into knots defining what an "assault weapon" is. Just say "we need to ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns". California has over a hundred thousand words in their gun laws, and they're STILL not really sure what an assault weapon is and how the laws are enforced.
Just say "ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns". That gets the tactical ones and the sporting ones all in one shot. No more AR-15s, period. No more AK-47s, period. Just say "the volume of fire from these guns is unacceptable; we will limit people to manual-action guns".
I don't know if it will work; I imagine you'll start seeing lever-action guns with detachable magazines within a couple of years. But, it's far more effective and simpler than that stupid, arbitrary, and ineffective ban from the Ace of Base era. There's no confusion, and your argument is not lost in quibbling over what "is" is.
Magazine capacity: either do a comprehensive study of how many rounds are needed for an average self-defense situation shooting, and then limit the magazine capacity to 2 or 3 times that number, or else impose a length limit on magazine. Say that a magazine can't protrude more than 1 inch from the butt of a handgun. Or that a magazine has to fit flush with the butt. Or that the bottom of the magazine spring has to fit flush with the butt.
Probably the best thing would be to say that a magazine for a gun can't be longer than the lesser of a) X inches from top of the first round to the bottom of the last round, or b) the bottom of the magazine spring cannot protrude past the factory grip.
Or simply outlaw detachable magazines. I doubt that would work (witness the magnetic "bullet button" in California to get around their assault-weapon ban) but it would in theory limit people to revolvers and fixed-magazine rifles and shotguns.
There's nothing wrong with stringent requirements for CCW permits. There is a problem with overly-burdensome fees, overly-burdensome wait times, and arbitrary issuance of permits. And there is a problem with states that won't recognize any permit but their own. But this is a state issue, not a federal one.
I used to have a South Dakota CCW permit, and frankly I though the permitting process was too lax.
Microstamping. Won't work. Requires registration (which criminals won't do) and the firing pin markings are too easy to alter, or they simply wear away.
Ballistic fingerprinting. Won't work. Requires registration (which criminals won't do) and the barrel wears naturally over time. Also, you can just change the barrel. I also read an interesting article in a gun magazine last month about "fire polishing", where soft-lead bullets coated in Crisco and fine grit is used to polish the barrel of a gun to increase accuracy. Well, fire a coupe of those through the gun and the ballistic fingerprint goes down the shitter.
Barcoded bullets. Won't work. Too expensive, impossible for the buyer to confirm that the markings on the box conform to the markings on the bullets/cases. Also, requires ammunition registration.
But the question is... why don't these points ever surface in your arguments? Your assault-weapon ban centerpiece was a proven failure, for exquisitely demonstrated reasons, yet you keep bringing it up fresh. You don't get it?
It. Didn't. Work. It was too arbitrary and targeted weapons rarely used in crime. In order to accomplish your stated goals, you need to ban all semi-automatics. Period, no exceptions. SO DO IT.
Drop the milquetoast, tired, problem-riddled AWB and be firm. YOU WANT TO BAN SEMI-AUTOS.
AR-15s.
AK-47s.
M-1 Carbines
M-1 Garands.
Beretta Storms.
Ruger 10/22s.
Marlin Model 60s.
SKSs.
Remington 7400s
Ruger Mini-14s.
All off the market. Don't squirm and say that a Garand is okay but an AR-15 isn't, because it's wrong. If Sideshow Bob had used a Garand instead of an AR-15, there would have been fewer wounded but more dead, as the Garand shoots a far larger and more powerful cartridge. AND it wouldn't have jammed!
So bite the bullet, come out of the closet, and say that you think, as a result of the recent mass shootings, that we need to ban the sales of semi-automatic long guns permanently.
Just do it. Stop pussyfooting around and do it. Make it easy for your gun-control allies to understand what you want and rally to your side. Make it easy for Average Joe to understand what you want to do.
1. Still beating that we can't define an "assault weapon" horse. I kind of like the Canadian system in this regard, stop playing your game and just ban specific guns.
2. Your argument about magazines is wandering and illogical. What's so hard about agreeing that no one needs 30 rounds to defend themselves, hunt or sport shoot?
3. You're way to obsessed with the gun culture to even understand something as simple as: COMPARABLE COUNTRIES DON'T HAVE 10,000 DEAD EVERY YEAR AND ANNUAL MASS SHOOTINGS!!!
Why?
Because they have sensible, effective gun control to varying degrees depending on what they think is logical. Why are we incapable of making that leap forward? I don't know for sure, but I'd bank it has a lot to do with the NRA/Republican/fascist jackasses who rob us blind and make us suffer.
- for your failed rant. Also, the most sensible regulation we don't have that we should have is mandatory psychological review for ownership. Shoot me.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Don't have the guts?
The AWB banned specific guns by name, so people changed the names. Ta-da. Stop playing around and declare that all semi-automatic guns can be easily used in mass shooting, so they should all be banned. Stop playing around and say that the real problem with 'military style' guns is not the black non-reflective finish or the protruding pistol grip or the bayonet mount, but the fact that they are semi-automatic guns that are fed from a magazine which can have very high capacities and thus can kill many people in a short period of time.
So simply ban them. Argue that effective hunting and self-defense can be easily done with handguns, lever-action rifles, and pump-action shotguns, and so that banning semi-auto long guns will increase public safety while not decreasing private safety. Can't you do that? Isn't that reasonable?
2. I was proposing specific alternatives. You're not. "What's so hard about agreeing that no one needs 30 rounds to defend themselves, hunt or sport shoot?" Okay, then 29? 25? It's real easy to say "you don't need 30 rounds", but you can't tell me how many people DO need, so you yank "10" out of your butts because you also have ten fingers and ten toes.
Here's a clue, though... if I'm in a situation where I'm defending myself with a gun, I don't want to have to reload in the middle of it. I don't plan on stuffing spare magazines in my boxer-briefs or in my mouth or under my man-boobs or in my asscrack. So I'm going to want to have as many as I can have in the magazine without compromising reliability and ergonomics. That means, a flush or nearly flush magazine in my handgun. That means, no drum magazine in my rifle.
Your side is pulling 10 out of the air because it's a nice round number, and now you've latched onto that like a drowning man clinging to a board. YOUR side gets all cranky at the thought of a person with a pistol and a big giant protruding magazine, a la the Gabby Giffords shooting. Well, if you limit magazine length to "flush with the butt", then you don't get any 33-round pistol magazines unless some maker out there produced a gun with a giant fucking grip.
And all you do is laugh and cling to your arbitrary 10-round limit. Either come up with a reality based number, or make your ban based on the standard handgun magazine, which fits flush or nearly so to the bottom of the gun.
I don't know, maybe the average number of shots fired in self-defense is 5, so that a 10-round limit would work 90% of the time. Maybe it's reasonable and valid. Or maybe 9 or 11 is. But, dammit, show your work.
And comparable countries have total homicide rates lower than our non-gun homicide rates. Even if you took away all the gun murders, we're still more violent. And that assumes that NOBODY that would have been killed with a gun was instead killed with "other".
What percentage of people that would be killed with guns would instead be killed with "other". Can you give me an estimate?
C'mon. There are 11,000 gun homicides a year. Now, thanks to the miraculously effective ellisonz gun-control law of 2013, only 1,000 people were killed with guns in 2014. How many of the 10,000 that would have been killed before the law changed will instead be killed with "other"?
Give me a number. Show me your prediction on how effective your laws will be. People are reading this; they want to know what you think. You seem to be very confident that your laws will effective. Give the class an estimate.
Don't like 2014? Too soon? Okay, then, 2024. In 2024, 1,000 people were killed with firearms. Other crime indicators have remained steady. So in 2024, after 11 years of the miraculously effective ellisonz gun-control law of 2013, how many of the 10,000 that would have been killed with guns were instead killed with "other"?
Zero?
5,000?
1,000?
I noticed you didn't bother defending ballistic fingerprinting or microstamping. *smirk* Those are "reasonable", too, or so I'm told.
And other countries do have mass killings. They are rarer, but they happen. The Norwegian guy, with his semi-automatic rifle, for example. And of course there are plenty of bombings and such.
But I'll tell you this, ellisonz... we could drop the homicide rate in this country by probably 20% overnight and save 3,200 people a year simply by legalizing pot. Unlike your gun-control schemes, it would take effect instantly. Not decades.
Unlike your gun-control schemes, it would reduces, not increase, the number and severity of laws that we live under, which I'm told is a measure of individual freedom.
We could probably drop it another 20% if we legalized the harder drugs.
And another 10% if we had Medicare for all, including comprehensive mental-health care, in this country. Imagine that... not only fewer murders, but less divorce, happier children, more productive people... if only we had Medicare for all. Freeing people from corporate slavery, freeing people to start their own business on their own time, instead of working shitty hours that destroys family life because they can't take a change on losing their insurance. Freeing people from life-destroying, family-destroying financial stress.
But no, we're focusing on guns again because we're not allowed to even consider legalizing pot or passing USP. I'm told that ObamaCare is the last health-insurance change we'll get in a generation, and that pot is Evil and as bad as heroin and has no medical use and we can't even try to legalize it.
You seem to feel it's okay that we have family-destroying health insurance and 2 million people languishing in prisons, just as long as they're not killing people.
Response to krispos42 (Reply #85)
Hassin Bin Sober This message was self-deleted by its author.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I thought they were unreliable and prone to jamming? Can't have it both ways now!
The rest of your post is just wandering rants and I have better things to do.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Witness Aurora and Giffords.
And I see that, for all your purported seriousness about the matter, you can neither defend your positions nor refute mine.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And if you like mandatory psychological reviews for gun ownership, would you object to the same requirement to obtain an abortion?
After all, the right to access to them is not enumerated in the Constitution, and such tests could determine if an abortion was "needed".
Don't up dishes you wouldn't care to eat....
Lex
(34,108 posts)That is not a new thing.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Championing the anti-RKBA garbage in the Gungeon from RW .orgs such as Brady and VPC gets old.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)This really must be Bizarro world.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Does the name Paul Helmke ring a bell?
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)become toadies for the repukes
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)There is no way in hell any rational person should be able to conclude that desiring to restrict the availability of firearms is a conservative issue.
When is the last time somebody saw a teabagger holding a sign saying "GUN CONTROL NOW"
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)fuck the NRA, gun nuts are evil, and so on when you are not being permitted to express such opinions.
Smacks of christians claiming they're being discriminated against when they aren't allowed to bash others without suffering an occasional retort.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Christians being a proper name is always capitalized, like "D" in Democrats.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)occasionally grammar rules aren't followed.
Additionally I've seen people write "republicans" (which should also be a big R) and that was allowed to slip by.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...and I personally don't really give a crap about the wailing of NRA wing-nuts.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)are you now saying the grammar discriminates based on politics?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Yes, to an extent. Consider as an example: the proliferation of "Democrat Party."
Also, consider a trip over to Free Republic and witness the decline.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)is also wrong.
Seriously, you correct me on grammar for something extremely silly to avoid addressing what I actually said, imply I'm a gun nut then back pedal on being a grammar-nazi because "those people do it too".
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...you've given me no reason to claim such a thing. Do you support the over-the-counter sale of high-capacity magazines?
why not?
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)nt
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)oh never mind I see you've covered that.
Carry on.
Maine-ah
(9,902 posts)those of us who quietly own guns, are non-violent, sane, and think we should have good gun control policies feel like we're being attacked...which we are on numerous threads, just for owning a gun.
Yes, I have two guns...technically, they're my husbands. We don't use them, but we have them, and he did teach me how to safely handle them and shoot them. (a long time ago) One of them he's had since he was a kid. Quite common up here in Maine.
I'd like to see some real non attacking discussion here on DU about what we can do to make gun ownership safer, and kept out of hands that they shouldn't be in. But, until some of this calms down, I don't see it happening.
My first post on the whole topic...I've pretty much stayed out of it. Hopefully, sometime we can all have this discussion calmly.
What happened over the weekend was horrible, unbelievably sad, and the young man involved probably would have managed to get his weapons somewhere, legal or not. This is another thing that has to be worked on. Illegal guns, ammunition etc...has got to come off the streets. Mental health screenings for legal gun purchases, extensive back ground checks...there has to be true conversation on the topic, none of which I've seen here lately. Rather sad....and both sides are guilty of the mud slinging.
I'll wait it out. In the mean time, my thoughts will be with the victims and their families, and hope that Lady Justice prevails.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)this gun nut argument is laughable. "we shouldn't do anything because it wont be 100% effective" usually followed up with "fuel bombs" or "knives".
at least it acknowledges that there is a problem.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Suggest mental health screenings for over-the-counter purchase in the Gungeon and see what response you get.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Your opinion don't matter.
Just kidding.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)and members of the NRA ...and any or all of their talking points are either NRA or Repuke talking points. By the looks of it the anti gun DU members would be just fine with banning all DU members that own guns. Is that what you want? I see no point in attacking our own gun owning DU members. Some people just want to vent and argue no matter what the sense of it is. I'm sure Freeperville is very happy to see us all attacking each other over this.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...although there may have been a post or two. I haven't made any either. Look, I'm fine if you want to hunt, target shoot, even CCW or open carry so long as you're subject to strict regulation. I'm not fine with those who oppose almost all regulation and toe the NRA line. I support liberals who own guns, but I'm against the right-wing position.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)seen such venom towards gun owners. It was pretty brutal and really upset me.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...I really don't feel sorry - I feel sorry for the victims in Colorado. But still, I think it's wrong the "gun nuts" can't just let us express our frustration with the NRA/Republican Party and the results of its dangerous policies.
permatex
(1,299 posts)from one or two posts. Very nice. You seem to be upset, here, have a cookie
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)it is the hardline gun nuts, advocating SYG, radical deregulation, etc. that dont belong here.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Most likely attacks against gun nuts, as I described them above, were re-interpreted by those same gun nuts as attacks on 'all people who own guns'.
I've attacked the gun nuts here. As far as I am concerned, those people who have spent their time here advocating for radical gun deregulation, SYG idiocy, and the insanity of Hollywood Cowboy Culture macho gun infatuation have blood on their hands. That is NOT ANYONE WHO OWNS A GUN. It is the NRA talking points spewing people here. They disgust me. Sorry if you find that offensive. I find routine mass slaughter offensive. Consider us even.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I am a female gun owner and I was almost in tears over the attacks on this board. It is easy enough to go look at the weekend posts. It is all there and yes I find it very offensive.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)i read thousands of posts, many attacking nra cowboy culture rkba gun nuts, not one that explicitly called out everyone who owns a gun. As I said, there may have been such a post, but that was the exception. Also for every attack on the gun nuts, the gun nuts who in fact hold some direct responsibility for what happened in Aurora, there were corresponding attacks against those of us who want sane regulation of guns, as gun grabbers, with all the rightwing nra rhetoric as is standard in the gungeon.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)How are vast majority of DU member not being permitted to express their opinion by regulars in a particular group? I really want to know how those who disagree with you are silencing the majority. Lets hear it...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The gun extremists are incapable of letting progressives discuss gun control/violence and so they've been shunted to the Gungeon much like the conspiracy theorists to the Dungeon.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Again, how are vast majority of DU member not being permitted to express their opinion by regulars in a particular group? I really want to know how those who disagree with you are silencing the majority.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...with a bunch of pro-gun nonsense. I'm not surprised you can't see that though as you've staked out your position on this very clearly and it's not in-line with the vast majority of DU.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Some of them are pretty well informed about it and dogged in their defense. So what? They're not entitled to an opinion or shouldn't be allowed to express it here?
There are millions of gun owners in the US and many of them are Democrats. There is not agreement within the party on this issue and that is unlikely to change. You should accept that.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)= NRA construct.
Opposing the ability of a nutcase to buy an AR-15 and 100 round drum without so much as a question of his intent is not opposing "RKBA."
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)They could not have handed the House to the Republicans after the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban by themselves. The reality is that the AWB infuriated many non-NRA gun owners who then voted Republican. Does that sound like agreement on the issue? It doesn't to me.
The real problem you have is that support for gun control has been declining for a long time. The 1994 AWB was a mistake that Democrats are smart enough not to repeat. If you think otherwise, then explain how you would line up Democratic support for a new AWB.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)This is a discussion board is it not? If its nonsense, dispute it. Instead you call people names and complain. If you have some rational arguments lets hear them, not just call to TOS those you disagree with and are unable to refute.
I support personal ownership of firearms as a progressive value because they work and help those who need it. I do not love inanimate metal, but I do love people. I teach firearms to those most in need of effective self defense; women, and GLBTs, many of whom are also racial or ethnic minorities because they are the people who need it most. Show me a more effective manner to protect them today in the situations they live in and I will change. Been looking for it for some time myself.
Have a phaser locked on stun to offer up?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Despite all your pontificating about yourself, it doesn't change the fact that a nutcase was able to buy 4 guns including an assault rifle and a 100 round drum and shoot up a movie theater. If you can't give a damn about what that means to most of the posters here I'm really not sure why you're continuing to distract from the point of contention. Nice attempt at a straw-man though seriously, stop pretending the NRA crowd isn't out of it's damn mind and undermining public safety.
Goodbye.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I give DU posters much more credit than you seem to. They can read and decide for themselves. They are not so fragile as you assert that they get the vapors when they see something they disagree with.
What makes you think that I and others who call you on your assertions are not upset or concerned about what happened? Your assumption of callousness is uncalled for and inaccurate.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)(Nice touch implying that you speak for "most of the posters here", btw). Self-appointed zampolits hate the Gungeon because:
a) We don't automatically buy what they're selling and are not shy about saying so, and
b) We've seen their grandstanding, appeals to emotion, speechifying, and bloviating before from other sources, and know how to counter it.
So, yeah, if I were you I'd be pissed too...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Is it only DUers that agree with you?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)How is any DUer stopping any other DUer from expressing their feelings? Pro-gun posters are responding with their ideas. We're having an exchange. You, on the other hand, seem all too happy to suppress ideas you don't agree with.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Read the DU TOS
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)that you are either an admin or the self-appointed arbiter of the site's policies.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Or, people who keep tabs on me, whichever. Creepy, but I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from the gatekeeper.
permatex
(1,299 posts)so typical. And I thought this was a progressive discussion website. I guess some people just want to shut down what they don't like to hear.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I just thought you had left. I've been spending less time on here lately.
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)I didn't find anything the pro-gun posters are breaking with any regularity in GD. If they were, you'd have no trouble getting a jury to hide the offending posts, and soon getting the posters tombstoned. What is your accusation? How do you support it?
As for my sig line, I am a gun rights absolutist, as described by an anti-gun poster back on DU2. I decided to own the label.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)If a jury agrees with you, the posts will be hidden and the posters will eventually be tombstoned. That's how DU works, as I understand it.
Even if the posts were extreme, your assertion was that pro-gun posters refuse to permit others to express their feelings regarding guns. I still don't understand how you think that takes place.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Then you're not paying attention. Every time something like this happens the "pro-gun" crowd has to invade GD and pee all over the carpet; it stinks.
Enjoy your stay.
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)Can we not respond to gun- and shooting-related threads in GD when they are started? Do you want gun-related threads in GD to be an uninterrupted chorus of anti-gun sentiment with no dissenting opinion?
I don't speak for anyone else, but I'm perfectly happy to keep gun discussion in the Gungeon. When a gun thread appears in GD, and it doesn't get moved, and I have something to say on the topic, I'm going to say it. That doesn't stop anyone from expressing anything. It is a conversation.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)+1!!
patrice
(47,992 posts)As though our NRA bought and paid for Congressional "representation" would do anything significant about this?
I keep asking what crimes everyone is going to engage in in order to make gun confiscation legal and necessary and no one answers.
TIRED of it.
I'm outta here for a couple of days.
gregoire
(192 posts).
hack89
(39,171 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)"hur hur, you own a gun so you support murder you have blood on your hands you tiny dicked gun fetish worshipper of death hur hur" type stuff.
i'm sure there might be some gungeon folks who are a little bit too into firearms for my taste but jesus christ no one here advocated gun massacres...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...they are effectively advocating gun massacres.
Jesus Christ.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)100 round drum magazines there.
but to accuse them of wanting to have massacres occur is just plain fucking stupid.
Jesus Christ indeed.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...that would inhibit the ability of individuals like Jared Lee Loughner and James Holmes to acquire such weapons. They are enablers and have blood on their hands, how many times does this have to happen before we stop kow-towing the NRA assholes? If you can't see that, I'm beginning to wonder about your judgment. I don't think I'll take anything you have to say remotely seriously anymore. Goodbye, you're ignored. Plain fucking stupid would be continuing to engage in discussion with you!
dionysus
(26,467 posts)permatex
(1,299 posts)In both cases they jammed up and probably saved lives so, why ban them?
Any serious gun owner wouldn't own them, but I still oppose a ban on high cap mags. for the simple fact that for people like you, it's never enough, next it'll be, nobody needs more than 10 round mags so we need to ban them, next, nobody needs 10 round mags so we need to ban them, next it'll be nobody needs a semi auto gun because only 6 rounds are allowed in a gun so revolvers are fine so we need to ban them.
I'm all for reasonable gun control laws, just not what you consider reasonable.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)A high-capacity magazine makes virtually no difference in situations like this. A shooter with basic skills can swap out "regular capacity" magazines in four seconds or less.
So, 15 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, pause for 4 seconds, another 15 rounds...or 30 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, pause for 4 seconds, another 30 rounds...there's no practical difference.
More effective mental health screening and treatment will make a much bigger difference than banning high-capacity magazines.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)"More effective mental health screening and treatment will make a much bigger difference than banning high-capacity magazines."
Do you understand how many mentally ill people we have in this country? Do you understand how difficult it is to force a grown adult into treatment? Do you understand how cost prohibitive such a measure would be considering how broke we already are? The rest of your post is entirely hypothetical and I have no desire to engage in such presumptions.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)I see a contradiction.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)when yet another gun nut massacre occurs, the sewer spills out into GD and you all get to see just how much you are not part of the mainstream here.
Missycim
(950 posts)Nt
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)sasha031
(6,700 posts)I have always believed in gun control, against the death penalty, Keynesian eco. ect.
Have I moved more left or has the world changed.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)A bit solipsistic, though...
sakabatou
(42,152 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)It's at the level of "Thou shalt not kill", "Love thy enemy". It's about power. It's about who is more important than whom. It's about whether or not we really are one or just a collection of independent souls, all vying for the same space on a small speck of dust in a vast space in the universe.
It might be about misunderstanding the Second Amendment, too.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)quite some time.
[div style="display:inline; background-color:#FFFF66;"]It's a bloody institution, supported by Government and Industry, as American as Dick Cheney, Goldman Sachs, Lockheed Martin, the Third Way, the republican party, and mom's apple pie,
Ending gun violence begins with teaching our children.
Teaching our children the truth about gun violence begins in the home.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Remmah2
(3,291 posts)They want their soap boxes and pre-screened audiences. If you do a little research you'll find out who kicked over the bees nest.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Pointless arguing. Neither side will EVER convince the other.
Response to HappyMe (Reply #42)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to HappyMe (Reply #42)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,350 posts)before taking refuge in the Lounge.
just1voice
(1,362 posts)All signs of a corrupt culture.
avebury
(10,952 posts)threads to the gun forum now, and not just from the General Discussion forum? Yes Colorado is a tragedy but nothing is going to change. Romney has had enough of a break, it is time to revitalize Baingate and all his other problems.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Sacred cows go bad very quickly sometimes. Rather smelly, too...
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)What next, mandatory uniforms and a pledge card?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)spanone
(135,844 posts)gun nuttery is the most bipartisan thing in 'merica
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Uh, OK.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Hurr.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)I'm making very liberal use of the function.
Uben
(7,719 posts)...I am pro-gun rights, will not change my mind, will not listen to the argument. So, it doesn't bother me at all. This has been going on now how long? Like...forever! If arguing about it for a year won't yield results, my efforts are needed elsewhere.
I heavily filter what I read here. This place seems to have changed a bit.....not what it was back in the day, but everything evolves.
So, I just read what looks like interesting subjects, and avoid the ones that have been fought over for years and years.
randome
(34,845 posts)I'm against guns and for more controls. I don't understand people who love firearms. But I don't discount their opinions just because they don't share mine.
It's all a learning experience. It's all good.
otohara
(24,135 posts)I'm glad we've had this little conversation about guns, guns, guns, guns, guns.
There's so many - too many.
Now that gun sales have gone up in CO, hubby and me will stay home more. Fuck it, I ain't going get
shot by a bullet, or 10 bullets.