I'm thinking that "dazed and confused" horseshit in the courtroom was an ACT.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

They mentioned several times about the defense preparing an "insanity defense."

That whole eyes closed, eyes bugged out, eyes closed thing seemed a little to convenient coming from a sick fuck who was so meticulous in orchestrating his atrocity.

[flamingdem]

1. A criminal shrink said his MO would be

to gloat over the publicity and fallout from his actions. That is if he is a classic psychopath. Yes, if he's as smart as they say he may know that he should look batshit. His eyes really do look like they're seeing crazy though.

[HappyMe]

2. I kind of thought so too.

He's not a stupid guy, he knows what's up.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. I was reminded of that old Jon Lovitz SNL bit..."ACTING!"

I'll bet that five minutes after he was back in his cell that "far off" look was GONE.

[RevStPatrick]

3. It could just be...

...that he hasn't slept a wink since Thursday?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

5. I doubt that.

He got exactly what he wanted. Why he gave up the apartment, I don;t know. But he got to blow away a shitload of people and pretend that he was "The Joker," so while he may have lost some beauty sleep, my thoughts are that he didn't. And if he did, fuck him.

[RevStPatrick]

29. Sure, I get that.

Still, the dazed look could be sleep deprivation.
Just sayin'...

[cali]

6. so you think he's faking mental illness?

[HappyMe]

8. He might be.

I'm sure he wouldn't be the first or last one to do that.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

11. Yes I do.

Maybe he was smart enough to orchestrate what he pulled off AND come off the way he did in court.

I absolutely think he was faking mental illness.

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. if you do not believe he is mentally ill - then why do you think the did this?

As I am sure you know - a person can be mentally ill but not necessarily qualify for the definition of "not guilty be reason of insanity."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

18. I don't know what he is

He had it together long enough to buy the ammo, his little "batsuit," to rig his apartment...

At some point "why" he did it is nowhere near as important to me as the legal system taking out the trash.

Maybe that makes me insensitive. I don;t want to "understand" this guy. I want to see him go through the legal process and pay for murdering a six year old girl and 11 others.

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. I do think it in everyone's best interest to try to understand such behavior. I find it implausible

to believe that he is not deeply disturbed. Whether or not he is mentally competent is another matter. None of us here have any knowledge about that. So speculating on this would be just wild guessing at this point.

[lunatica]

28. Remember the people who know him have said he was quiet, shy and 'witty'

mental illness shows up in other circumstances.

But the legal definition of mental illness is that the criminal must not know right from wrong action, at least at the time of the crime. Premeditation is considered knowing right from wrong. Holmes carried out a very intricate plan not only to kill as many people as he could but to booby trapping his apartment in order to kill more people.

[slackmaster]

20. I think you are conflating mental illness with mental incompetence

Obviously anyone who commits such a heinous crime is mentally ill.

The question that will need to be addressed in court is whether or not he is mentally competent to stand trial and be held accountable for his actions. Mental illness does not excuse a person from accountability.

The outcome will be effectively the same either way from the perspective of society at large - Holmes will be removed from it for the rest of his life.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

23. If he had the mental ability to plan this, he has the mental ability to stand trial

And I'm not an expert in mental illness.

I just have a really hard time seeing this little fuck become a "ward of the state" for the rest of his life.

[slackmaster]

26. My cold reading is that he is nowhere near mentally incompetent

I just have a really hard time seeing this little fuck become a "ward of the state" for the rest of his life.

It makes no difference to me whether he ends up wearing stripes in a prison or solids in a psychiatric lockup. The state is going to be providing him with room and board and security for the rest of his life.

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. what if ,,for example he genuinely believed that by this doing this he was saving the world from

being destroyed? What if due to a psychotic delusion of which he could not help having - he sincerely believed he was saving the world from imminent destruction? Of course, that may not be at all where he is coming from. But it is not all together implausible that he might have been acting on motives much like that. If that is the case, would that change the way society should treat him?

[slackmaster]

45. I believe someone who is that delusional would qualify as mentally incompetent

HTH

[global1]

33. Wasn't He Studying Neuroscience And The Brain?.....

this guy is smart. This carnage was planned methodically - from the purchase of the guns, ammo and his protective garments. To the booby trapped apartment. To the loud music being played at the time of the crime. His performance at the theatre was almost flawless - save for his gun that jammed.

When I heard that they caught him almost immediately in the aftermath - I was thinking he might have been hoping for "suicide by cop".

My 88y/o mother is staying with me and is captivated by this whole incident. She has been watching this since it was first breaking news the other day.

She says they should just let him go without protection and release him into the street in front of the courthouse. She said - then we'll see justice. She really is having a hard time comprehending how a person could do what this guy did and doesn't understand why this court thing could possibly drag on for years. After all they caught him 'dead to rights'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Why a psychiatrist needs to get involved

Loughner was an act until the competency hearing. He is still at a hospital for the criminally insane.

Remember that.

[MicaelS]

35. Well, you're medic here...

What's your professional opinion of Holmes?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

44. I thought she was a journalist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. If he was transported to the ER

The way he was acting in the courtroom, likely that there would be at least a minor involvement by psych after a full drug pannel and full bloodwork.

There are many things that could cause that behavior. Why a medical work up is in order, for also legal reasons.

[HooptieWagon]

9. Is it possible he was in withdrawal?

From a vicodin habit or something?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

13. He ACTED "drugged," so maybe.

No way of knowing. I just know that what I saw was a guy who was acting, or a guy who had something else going on.

[sabrina 1]

38. One report did say he had taken Vicodin before the tragedy.

Not sure what effect that would be having several days later though. Unless he was an addict.

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. well he did what he did for some reason

Did he do this for money? I can't imagine that possibility.

Unless one believes that people consciously choose to be the incarnation of evil and to be hated by everyone with a ruined and disgraced life - being deeply troubled, confused and probably profoundly psychotic is a reasonable educated guess as to what set the stage for his actions.

[grasswire]

12. remember that just the day before, he had drinks in a bar...

....and apparently the fellow reporting this didn't notice any insanity in him then. They had a conversation; the to-be shooter apparently didn't ring any alarms at all.

[AngryOldDem]

14. The more I see the footage, the more I tend to agree.

If true, he's one hell of an actor. Looked like he had overdosed on Valium.

I thought at first he was genuinely remorseful, but in other, longer clips, he just looked zoned out.

[cthulu2016]

16. Do tell, how do you expect him to act?

What, in your mind, is typical behavior for a mass-murderer?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

19. Well, supposedly he was spitting on guards and yelling.

I'd like to have seen a little of that. If it was true, of course.

[slackmaster]

21. Mass murderers type in ALL CAPS and blather on about government conspiracies

[Nevernose]

17. My thought was "coming off a meth binge"

Although "faking it" was the trout immediately after. I suppose it's also possible that they gave him something in jail to calm him enough for court.

[flamingdem]

24. They said he had taken 100 milligrams of Vicodin

Which apparently is a lot, before his attack

[Nevernose]

27. While that's a whole lot of Vicodin

It would have worn off by now, though.

[slackmaster]

30. A standard Vicodin tablet has 5 mg of hydrocodone

I rarely take more than half of a tablet when I need it. 100 in a single dose is far more than any doctor would ever prescribe.

Given that a Vicodin tablet also has 500 mg of acetaminophen (APAP), 20 tablets would be enough to make a person very sick even if he had a strong tolerance to the opiate. It's really not safe to take more than two Vicodin tablets in a dose.

[DearAbby]

22. I am sure there would be more qualified people

to determine the state of his mind...but someone who colors his hair bozo red, puts on a tactical suit, and shoots into a darkened theater of 200+ people...is a little batshit crazy.

If it is determined he understands right and wrong. Either way, the bastard isn't going to breath free air. Lock his ass away, till the day he draws his last breath.

[kestrel91316]

31. Why do you think he couldn't possibly actually BE mentally ill?

My schizophrenic mother was very meticulous in her plotting various things.

Mentally ill does not equal mentally retarded.

[noel711]

32. It's irresponsible to judge from a glimpse...

My first reaction was that he was sedated;
reports that he was non-cooperative may have been
a legal way of saying he was out of control,
and he was medicated to keep him from acting out in
a way that would affect his trial.

And all those people who are saying that his demeanor was
an obvious sign of his mental fragility, and someone should have
intervened... I see young people in that state often:
bizarre appearances, volatile emotionally and odd energy displays...
there's little a person can do until the individual displays behavior
that is obviously a threat to others or to himself.
Legally its tenuous to judge.
And in this litigous culture, prejudging a person opens door to
litigation against the accuser.

The smoking gun (pardon the irony) was allll the mail deliveries
to one address. And because he 'shopped' the internet for weapons,
until there is a clearing house for sale of weapons to a larger
authority, no one is the wiser. In the current anti-government
political climate, there will be no structure put into place to
monitor the internet sale of assault weapons and large magazine
ammo.

[HooptieWagon]

46. Hindsight is 20/20.

Generally speaking, mental health experts tell the public to be on the watch for several things. Sudden changes in appearence, sudden change in behavior, sudden change in work or school situation, sudden change in personal life (friends or SO). While one or two are not a concern, several together are a red flag for concern for someones mental state.

What we have with Holmes is a case of several red flags. Multiple gun purchases by a person previous uninterested in firearms. Sudden change in appearance. Sudden deterioration in school situation. Change in behavior/personality (since mother didn't seem very surprised).

The problem: no person was likely aware of all the red flags. Parents likely knew about behavior change and school situation, but not the weapons. School knew about decrease in performance, likely not the others (except the packages, did they inquire at all?).
So, the guy slipped through the cracks. Not sure what could be done... Suggestions?

[Lex]

34. It seems plausible that the police have had him up most of the last 48 hours

or so trying to get information from him about the shootings, the bombs, the boobie traps, and any other things he might've set to go off at other places.

[leftynyc]

37. I'm not sure about that

There are a couple of things that I'm questioning. Unlike the Columbine killers and the VA Tech killer, he didn't kill himself and wasn't going for suicide by cop given he was covered from neck to toe in kelvar. It doesn't sound like he gave the cops any fight at all when they took him in and he also told them about the apartment being boobytrapped. None of that makes sense if he's simply a psychopath.

[soccer1]

39. There's insane then there's legally insane.....

Legal insanity is a tough defense to prove.....his careful planning over a long period of time might indicate that he's not legally insane.
And, the big question needed answered for legal insanity defense:did he know right from wrong at the time of the murders. Have to check CO definition of legal insanity.

[Bluerthanblue]

40. it is just too scary to think that he's really crazy isn't it?

Better to say that it was drugs, or an act. Because if it was somthing actually going wrong with the way his thinking works, that would mean that it could happen to anyone. Even .... you or someone you know and love. And maybe that means there is nothing that you or I can really do to prevent it.



That's my take on this. Minds which work properly don't do things such as this. And those who do, or which return even briefly to sanity- ususally make sure they do not continue to live.

[lapislzi]

41. I look at it a little differently.

I think that claiming someone is "crazy" is little better than an excuse. It takes away from the heinousness of the thing they did.

I hate it when people claim murderers are crazy (even when they are), as if that explains everything. It might explain it, but it sure doesn't excuse it.

But then we would have to have a meaningful discussion about mental health in America. As in, if yours is on the fritz, you're SOL.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. That meaningful discussion isn't going to happen

if we continue to see behaviours which are self destructive and which negatively impact life for a person and those around them as being a simple matter of choice.

A healthy mind and body means having the ability to understand and choose to live in ways which don't cause pain and suffering. A 'rational' mind would reject doing something which would mean causing such senseless carnage. The military has to train 'rational' minds to see the 'enemy' as something other than a human being who is someone just like them.

I'm more familiar with mental illness and it's impact than I wish. It's not just in America either. But our "self made man" -"bootstrap" worshiping mind-set does make it exceptionally difficult to see the issue for what it is.

What help is an "excuse" anyway? If you mean that people say "oh he was crazy" and are then supposed to feel comfortable, or less disturbed and angry about what happened, I'm not sure that believing that a person could have actually chosen not to do something like this, is any less of an excuse, or any more comforting.

We want to explain it, because we think that makes it possible for us to control it. I'm not sure that is really something we will ever be able to do.

[librechik]

43. he looked sedated--and horrified--and really unable to control his face.

if he is insane, then get this monster some treatment. Seems the only explanation to me. There was nothing fake about the psychotic things he has done the last few months.