General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMaybe there's just no way to prevent these loony mass murders
without further turning into a police state or trampling rights. Yes, we need a better mental health system, but it's my understanding that Norway has a pretty good mental health system and far more stringent gun laws, yet last year Anders Breivik, shot and killed dozens and dozens more than died in Colorado last week.
I don't know that prevention short of draconian limiting of all kinds of rights can work.
And I know I don't want that.
Just my opinion. Sure it won't go over terribly well.
madokie
(51,076 posts)But I damn sure think we need to be asking some questions and doing some soul searching concerning the types of firearms citizens are allowed to possess.
again I'm not saying I have any answers but I do have questions.
Firearms and cars do not equate so whoever/whomever don't even go there with me.
peace Cali
have a good day and yes thanks for the post
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm sure you know far, far more than I do. I actually "own" two handguns because I took them away from two (different) suicidal loved ones on two separate occasions. They are now well hidden and unloaded. Guns do scare me. I try not to let that fear dominate how I feel about the 2nd Amendment.
I think asking the questions you suggest posing, is a worthy idea.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)It seems applicable in that response to social crowding is either to withdraw or to become hyperaggressive. While we're not suffering overcrowding in the spatial sense, ideas bombard us each and every day and overstimulate us. Perhaps this has the same effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun
cali
(114,904 posts)thank you so much for the link.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)no doubt that can have an impact on human psyche.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)I'm not sure what can be done about this, either, but I wonder at the wisdom of turning something like this into a TV show and someone like this into a TV star.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)With that in mind, I wonder if he has been glued to CNN.
On top of that, there are a lot of things in our culture that shamelessly glorify violence. The debate over gun rights has distracted from looking closely at individual and sociological factors in these events. Writing off such events as some kind of mental illness that can not be understood is lazy.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)In America, it is a fairly regular occurrence. America is the ONLY country where you can say that.
Giving those facts, I think we both know there IS a way to prevent MOST of the mass murders.
It is not rocket science to stop it. But does America have the sanity to do so? Does it have the will?
cali
(114,904 posts)I think most mass murderers are completely insane in a clinical sense. I do think there probably is a way to prevent most quotidian gun murders in this country- and they kill a fuck of a lot more people than Aurora or Columbine type of events. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know THAT.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)But you are right, it is the "quotidian" murders that represent most of the deaths.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)...is that the states where they occur work their people literally to insanity, imo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Which I am not.
I mean, look at honor killings, hardly reported but our best guess is that honor killings kill 5 times more people than all the recorded mass murders combined. Every year. We know that Burma is currently experiencing a genocide and it's hardly even reported (and it will likely be left for historians to figure out what happened 20+ years from now). I'd need to be confident that the stats for other countries are including all mass murders, which I am not.
ananda
(28,864 posts)I think we can heal some of the societal ills, as well as
promote safety, without such a black and white either-or
as turning into a police state and trampling rights.
It's a good idea to look at what promoting safety really
means regarding rights. I think that phrases like promote
the general welfare and secure the common good give us
some vocabulary for conversation, along with the vague
phrasing of the Second Amendment which actually says
that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security
of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed."
Thus, it could be argued reasonably that rational laws
regulating and restricting gun and arms buying on the part
of private citizens would promote the general welfare and
help secure the common good. In considering the idea of
freedom, it could also be argued that individuals would both
feel more free and be freer in a society of people who do not
have access to destructive weapons or the means to use them
in public places.
We already live in a very brutal police state designed to
restrict and practically eliminate the right of people to free
speech and demonstrate. Witness the treatment of OWS as
an example. Criminal justice also targets and profiles Black
and Hispanic youths for incarceration at alarming rates,
effectively taking them off voter rolls and out of the society
which seems to fear them because fearmongering works to
keep people divided and in line. More rights are infringed
by an already existing police state than by an imagined one
that might be created if gun laws were more rational.
jp11
(2,104 posts)they can kill lots of people. The world is full of dangerous things not all of them are as efficient or easy to put in your hand as a gun but they still exist.
This guy we are talking about this time isn't your typical stereotype who may have 'needed' guns to do his dirty work. As evident by the improvised devices in his apartment, his education, he could have done any number of things that could have killed many more from poisoning to sinking a cruise ship. It just so happens that more often than not a gun is the easiest and most efficient way to kill a bunch of random people quickly that most individuals can and do go for.
There are things that can be done to reduce some of the crazies and have them be caught, helped, or even prevent them going crazy but nothing will ever stop them all not even surrendering all our rights and freedoms to be treated like potential criminal/serial killing crazies at every turn.