Al Franken did more to take on Trump than Kirsten Gillibrand ever did, or will do

[dansolo]

Al Franken is the reason we have Robert Mueller investigating Trump and the GOP. Kirsten Gillbrand helped Trump, and hurt us, by leading the charge to force Al Franken to resign. Anyone who believes that her actions will have any effect on the electorate is deluding themselves. Her actions are targeted to appeal to one group and one group only - female Democratic primary voters.

[Voltaire2]

1. added to list of things we need to move on from.

Last edited Sat Dec 30, 2017, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)

[SCantiGOP]

21. I agree

Why is this dead horse continuing to be beaten a month after its demise.

Give it a rest people, there are other matters that actually exist in real time.

[lark]

31. I don't think this is done at all.

Repugs now know lots of dems don't care for facts either, just political positioning. This gives them the freedom to go after any Dem anywhere with total made up lies and Dems will gut their own. Thanks Gillibrand, Harris, Sanders, etc. Sad to see that truth doesn't matter to them and the other 33 Dems who asked Al to leave, regardless of facts and lies.

[PatSeg]

46. It is not over for me

I am as angry now as I was a month or so ago. Even Richard Painter brought it up again this week. Such an unresolved injustice cannot be swept under the rug.

[LakeArenal]

53. Does seem to be a lot of effort to make us sweep it out....

I've said it before.... I will vote Dem in a GE years from now... Until then, I'll be as pissed and loud as I wanna be..

I'll also donate, volunteer and spend energy on Dem candidates I want. No backstabbers on that list right now...

[PatSeg]

74. It sure does seem that way, doesn't it?

I'm not a liberal purist, as I know we have to be pragmatic at times, if we want to see progressive change, but I cannot ignore or condone throwing a good person under the bus for political purposes. I know some people jumped on board the Zero Tolerance Train too quickly and later expressed regrets. We can all be hasty with our judgment at times, but there still are quite a few senators who owe Senator Franken an apology. It takes character to admit you were wrong.

Yes, I too will vote Democratic in any general election, but there are some who I will not support in a primary. Democrats should be above a witch hunt mentality and at least should be smart enough to not fall for a classic republican dirty smear job.

[leftcoastie]

188. Throwing the baby with the bath water.

PatSeg, Neither am I.

I'm in my 60s, and being a pragmatist will be the only way to victory, since victory is rarely immediate. To me its inconceivable that Dems convicted without due process a Senator to his resignation. And a damn good senator for women's rights and much more. We must watch our own very carefully as well.

[PatSeg]

189. Yes, he has been an exceptional senator

Unlike many politicians, he truly was motivated to serve and make a difference. I never sensed in him dishonesty or a need for power. We would be lucky to have many more like him.

As I said, I will always for the Democrat, but I won't always agree or approve of everything they do - that would make me more like a republican.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

217. +10000 to this OP and sub thread.

Purity Tests do worse harm than the good they think they’re doing. Reality doesn’t conform to purity tests.

And I’m still angry at the avalanche of faulty thinking (at best) that caused that catastrophic miscarriage of justice.

[heaven05]

204. +++1000

[KPN]

148. Good post. Me too!

[rainy]

162. Me too! I will not forgive, will not forget!

[PatSeg]

170. Yes

And Al Franken deserves to be remembered and vindicated.

[Alice11111]

228. Totally!!

[question everything]

49. Because it will not take long befofe the 2020 candidates wannabe start parading

And many of us will stay away from Gillibrand, Harris and Warren. At least, in the primaries and caucuses.

[Crunchy Frog]

141. Those who fail to understand the past are condemned to repeat it.

[SCantiGOP]

157. And those who dwell on the past are condemned to live in it

[Crunchy Frog]

172. I'd hardly call a few weeks "dwelling"

But YMMV.

[blue cat]

185. It's over for me...

She is dead to me, and I will bad mouth her from now on.
Case closed. I'm over her.

[Alice11111]

229. Dead to me too. I am working to have her lose the Dem primary

Any Dem with principles is better.

[WyLoochka]

205. Sweep an injustice under the rug?

Not only an insulting suggestion, but not wise politically, for either short or long term, for a party that claims to stand for truth, due process, rule of law and justice i.e the high road.

Sweeping an injustice such as this under the rug makes the Dems the same as the Repubs - willing to put up with anything in order to rack up a win - and the win is only a maybe.

Sure hollows out the primary reasons for being a Democrat.

[Alice11111]

230. Well stated.

[heaven05]

88. oh no

too many people want to move on with unresolved hypocrisy staring at them in the mirror. Should have moved on from primary LOSERS, haven't done that yet...when we move on from that then maybe we can move on from this travesty of a railroaded, important voice lost in the Senate. And I damn sure don't want a damn 80 year old running for POTUS from our Party who's not even a Democrat and has said that many times with the caveat, doesn't nor ever want to identify as a Democrat unless he's, well we know what that was all about....I'm 69 so I am not being an ageist.....

[politicaljunkie41910]

160. I want to say quickly that I agree with everything you've said before your post gets deleted.

[murielm99]

184. +1000000

I am surprised your post is still here.

[betsuni]

225. [phone]

[Lunabell]

190. Yep

It's over.

[Jakes Progress]

211. Sure. Why learn from your mistakes when you can do them over and over?

Let's ignore all our errors and screw ups. If we don't think about them, we use ignorance as an excuse each time. Then we can all sing camp songs and watch the republicans take over the country.

Good plan.

[Blue_true]

2. Gillibrand has been a longtime campaigner against sexual abuse and assault.

She was being consistent.

[itsrobert]

11. Before or after Hillary and Bill

gave her a lot of help electing her to the Senate?

[True Blue American]

68. Thank you

Beat me to it. She loved Bill and Hillary. Now she is saying he should have resigned.
Gillibrand cares about one person and I am disgusted with her and the others.

I let Brown know how I felt,too. First time he disappointed me.

Innocent until proven guilty. He asked for an ethics investigation. They did awful damage to the party.

[SHRED]

30. With the exception of political expediency that is

See: campaigning with Bill.

[elfin]

78. No, she was being extremist and hostile to due process, which her target welcomed. EOM

[whathehell]

122. He. Could. Have. Fought. Back..

..and he didn't, and we may never know why.

I supported him too...I called his office to urge him to stay.

At some point, his responsibility for stepping down has to be acknowledged -- Maybe he had good reasons, ones we don't know about...In the end, it was his decision.

[elfin]

150. KG organized the mob.His decision was for the party.

After hearing from so many arm-twisted by her that he should resign. If he had fought, he knew the ensuing "news" would have been protracted headlines that caused the Dems distress, and because his replacement would be a Dem whom he liked, He bowed to the sentiments of others he had admired.

It is a legitimate issue for real offenses but we are in danger of false stories encouraged by the right wing (Hello Leeann Moffit sp?) targeting men in both parties for the wrong reasons.

KG dogmatically got the bandwagon going to make a point that is lost on me when it comes to Al.

[whathehell]

176. The "mob"?

You mean our Democratic senators? m'kay.

To clarify, I don't like what she did, but to characterize her as some All Powerful Leader of "the mob" is simply untrue..The Fact is, she had PLENTY of help from the other senators -- mostly male with a LOT more experience than she, AND that, in the end, he CHOSE to resign rather than fight, for whatever reason.

[elfin]

186. Bet it looked like a mob to him

She actively organized an avalanche of criticism against him, figuring it was "safe" in that his successor would be appointed by a Dem governor and she could ride the issue on to the Presidency.

An accomplished and smart person who is now a one issue candidate no matter how much she tries to prove otherwise in time for the primaries.

Obviously, I don't like her. A lot.

She revealed a lack of proportion and judgement that disgusts me.

The fact that she got so many others to ride on her bandwagon saddens me. I think Al let them off the hook and let them pile on if they thought his leaving would ultimately benefit the party in some way.

[whathehell]

187. You think so?...I'd guess that he's made of stronger stuff, myself

.Then again, I don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about a man I don't know. Cheers.

[Alice11111]

234. Spot on.

[L. Coyote]

139. She is deserving of our praise and appreciation for what she is doing.

[Blue_true]

179. I agree.

Taking a cutting edged stance is never easy.

[WyLoochka]

209. No Gradations Gillibrand does not deserve my praise

I do not agree with her at all. We MUST pay attention to gradations, not doing so railroads justice itself off the cliff.

She is not only wrong on "no gradations", she has shown poor judgment and was oddly disconnected from what was really going on when the chips were down.

I want my elected peeps to be able to smell a right wing ratfucking hoax and to fight it as it occurs. She utterly and completely failed at that requirement. The Roger Stone etal attack on Franken could not have worked out better for the right wing ratfuckers. They came out of it stronger and we came out weaker.

I have no confidence in her. Her screw up was so bad there is no recovery in my book.

[dflprincess]

192. Then she should have gone after Claire McCaskill who helped block Gillibrand's bill that would have

done something about sexual assault in the military. Franken supported that bill and McCaskill's opposition to it did more to hurt women than Franken ever did.

[Alice11111]

231. No, since there was no sexual abuse or assault. Just her blind ambition

I'm for Democrats

Al Franken was the best of the best. Anyone who takes out our best Dems has to go. I'm working to primary her out forever.

[lark]

236. Exactly my issue.

She is a backstabber who couldn't stand Franken's prominence so jumped all over him to eliminate competition. She reminds me of Joe Lieberman from Ct., has the same amount of disloyalty or caring for truth, when it comes to her peers. She also backstabbed the Clintons, has no loyalty, will take the money, hug you while she's putting a shiv in your back. I'm just glad she' not from my state.

[Alice11111]

238. Well stated. She's not from my state either,but I did work

to help her get elected, as did the Clintons. She would not have won but for the Clintons. I hope they join to take her out. She is not a Dem,but an insult and danger to our party.

[janterry]

3. I'm angry and hurt, too

but we can't say what Gillibrand will do with the rest of her career. We just have to watch (and provide gentle guidance - in the form of phone calls, letters and/or emails.

I hope she does better in the future.

And I hope that Al continues to be active - even run for office again. I really like him.

[whathehell]

10. Yeah, but men are allowed make mistakes -- Women not so much.

if you get my drift.

[delisen]

54. Schumer had the major role-he is Minority Leader

If he did not organize it-it would not have been done.

Leahy surely did not come out for Franken resigning just because of Gillibrand.

Leahy has already voiced his regret about his call for Franken to resign.

[LakeArenal]

83. I don't think anyone has forgotten Schumer's role in this....

If there are threads regarding Schumer's political gain from this, and folks start patting him on the back, you'll see plenty of comments about it.

[whathehell]

111. Yes, and have you noticed how he (and the other "he's") are so rarely

called out for it?....So much more fun to pick on "the girl".

[regnaD kciN]

144. Could it be because Gillebrand is clearly positioning herself for a presidential run in 2020...

...Schumer, not so much.

[whathehell]

149. It's not "clear" to me..

[KPN]

153. She is not a victim here. She led the effort

to oust him ... she is getting what she deserves. She made a political calculation and it has created some blowback. That's not a victim.

[whathehell]

173. She led the effort, but it would have gone Nowhere without the followers

..so my point is not that she is a "victim" but the entire pile of shit should NOT be falling on her alone, as it seems to be
.The others should ALSO be held responsible, and yeah, that includes Bernie who happens to be a favorite of mine and my choice in the primary....Fairness counts.

[KPN]

181. It does. So when I evaluate her against

Last edited Sat Dec 30, 2017, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

any other candidate who called for Franken to resign, I will do so on all the other criteria. But all things being equal, leading the charge is particularly egregious in my view.

[whathehell]

182. I can understand that..

I do think it was a mistake.

[WyLoochka]

210. Lynch mobs don't succeed without the followers

that's pretty obvious. Doesn't mean we can't hold the ring leader accountable. We don't want this kind of internecine betrayal to occur again, so it is the right thing to speak out against the horrible judgment call by the "leader" they sheepishly followed.

Our Dems have not been known for "courage" for decades. In the aughts, they were commonly referred to as the "Pink Tutu" Democrats - thx to our dearly departed BartCop.

This was another of those infamous Pink Tutu moments wherein all but 15 of them caved. Unfortunately, it was enough to put them on the low road - the low road that thwarted finding the truth and carrying out a just decision.

Several of the cavers have since spoken remorsefully. But it's too late, as it always is. Immense harm was done. They never seem to learn.

[whathehell]

213. Lynch mobs... Really?

Hyperbolic much?

Sorry, but when someone attempts a "discussion," with that level of vitriol and exaggeration, I'm simply not interested in engaging with them...Have a nice day.

[lark]

33. Al is done - Dems killed his lucid voice.

He can never be a leading voice for us again due to the unchallenged lies. The best we can hope for is him starting a liberal think tank, that's it.

[LakeArenal]

86. Is that wishful thinking?

Unchallenged Lies? That the same as wanting an ethics investigation?

I hope for much more than "a liberal think tank"....

[lark]

152. Yes, I want an ethics investigation to clear his name.

How can he do more than be part of a think tank with the unchallenged & lying groping claims? It makes me so sad for him and angry at those Dems that signed that letter.

[LakeArenal]

156. Sorry, I misunderstood.

I thought you meant the best Al could hope for due to him not challenging the claims enough.

I might want him for President. I know, way too early.

[SoCalMusicLover]

164. President?

Al is done with public office. You don't get trashed by colleagues like he did, and come back.

[LakeArenal]

167. I just can't agree.

I hope that isn't the case. A resounding win for office would certainly speak for the people and change a lot of "colleagues".

[Alice11111]

232. Not sure. He should move to NY and primary Guillibrand.

The Clintons would support him, since she went after them too, even though they put her there.

She has really serious problems.

[lark]

235. She and others shot the party in the foot or maybe worse than that.

She does have serious problems which I fear are now the entire party's problem. Will they kick out everyone who gets these claims with the same lack of caring about truth or actual assault, harassment? Precedent has been set and you know repugs have noted it with total glee. I just wonder who they will target next, but you know the lies worked and they will ride this horse again,

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. This particular female Democratic voter is disgusted by what she did

to my most excellent Senator, and I would not support Gillibrand in a primary on account of her actions. So if her target was women like me, she missed.

[cornball 24]

12. Agree 1000%!

[jrthin]

13. This woman feels as you do. She's my Senator

And if primaried, she sure as hell would not get my vote. I am hoping Zephyr Teachout run against her.

[MoonRiver]

15. Who's Teatree?

I didn't know she had any kind of primary challenge.

[jrthin]

16. Sorry, Zephyr Teachout.

She's the progressive who ran against Cuomo in the primary. She lost, but she did surprisingly well. That's who I would love to see primary Gillibrand.

[MoonRiver]

23. I hope that happens!

Don't live in NY, but will be watching for her!

[Wwcd]

41. Nope. Teachout is NOT close to what we need.

She too has some questionable issues to answer for.
There are stronger & more loyal Dems to send to DC

[lapucelle]

118. She also lost her race for a seat in the state legislature in 2016.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/NY-Fierce-Battle-for-House-Seats-Democrats-Republicans-Control-400364361.html

[Wwcd]

124. Not much of a record to take on the Kremlin Kraken is there.

What is her platform, her power, her strength that will draw voters?
What has she done for us? Her creds?
Why should we support her?

She must have more substance than just beating up her opponant.
Voters are mighty suspicious of "all talk, no past to judge on", candidates.

Who funds her campaign & how do we trust her with little substance to run on.
She would be our demise.

Next?

[murielm99]

57. Teachout out is divisive and

one of the self-described leftists. She is no progressive. I would not touch her with a ten foot pole.

I am heartbroken over what happened to Franken. But let's not let it divide us further. We do not need to primary anyone except repiggies. We will never agree one hundred percent with any Democrat. But they are not the enemy.

Teachout is poison, IMO.

[whathehell]

123. How would you discern "leftist" from "progressive"?

[murielm99]

125. Oh, so we are going to get into semantics,

the parsing of definitions? Why? So you can bait me into saying something to get a hide? No thanks. I think you know why I am suspicious of this woman.

[whathehell]

180. Huh?

No, I'm not "parsing" anything, I'm asking you what you mean and here's why -- For most here, "leftist" and "progressive" are similar if not the same, so, no..it was an honest question and despite your assumptions about what you think I "know" about" your "suspicions", no again...We don't know each other, and so I haven't the foggiest.

[murielm99]

183. See heaven05's post,

number 88. I agree with that wholeheartedly. It contains the essence of why I could never support Teachout.

I think it is time to move past being HRC supporters or BS supporters. Anyone who did not support HRC after the primaries does not belong here in the first place. Anyone still whining about BS, like Teachout and her ilk, needs to grow up.

The primaries are over. 2017 is over. We are not "leftist" or "progressive." We are all Democrats, and we better start acting like it if we still want a democracy after 2018. Stop playing innocent.

I am heartbroken over what happened to Franken. But we need to move on and win in 2018. We won't do it with dividers like Teachout, who did lose her primary. Don't forget that: Democrats did not vote for her in sufficient numbers for her to win.

[Demsrule86]

47. You can't be serious. First of all she won't win statewide so if she succeeded in winning the

primary, we would lose the seat. She ran against Cuomo. Primarying a sitting Senator is stupid.

[disndat]

65. WOW, Run, Zephyr, RUN!

Zephyr is 1000 times more substantive as a progressive Democrat than Gillibrand every hoped to be. Z. Teachout is law
professor at Fordham University.

[Wwcd]

82. And? A professor at fordham is one cred. What are her other creds to challenge a sitting Dem?

Besides being a sanders fan, ??

Needs more than an association to somebody else or a famous school to qualify in the high stakes game coming up.
Name her runnning long list of credible stats, cuz if she has none, she is another spoiler & THAT is part of what the fk happened last time.
Show us her long list of fighting creds....

[LakeArenal]

90. Anybody can run and win...

That's the American way.. Or used to be...

[Wwcd]

98. "Anybody" ran & won the WH in 2016.

I'd like to know who I'm donating to & voting for.
Thanks anyway for answering my question.
Pffft

[LakeArenal]

104. So dismissive and snarky..

[Wwcd]

128. Your Personal insult to my post just reiterated my last response.

Teachout has no creds to run on.
Why should anyone support her?
What has she done for us throughout her lifetime?
Where's the list that convinces a voter to support her?
Waiting...

[LakeArenal]

134. In America, anyone can run and anyone can win...

You are dismissing Teachout. This is the first I have heard the name. Several DUers seem to think she has possibilities.

You seem like a person in the know, tho...

[Wwcd]

137. I've rarely heard her name & I'm suppose to support her?

No one can provide a solid reason why, but someone said she would be great because she's a professor?

That's it?

No thanks.
I'll stand for & donate to a candidate that can show me what they have stood for in their lifetime.

Just because "anyone can run" doesn't mean they would serve the public's best interests.

No creds behind her & she becomes the candidate "some say" is a winner??!

"Some said" that about Stein & others in 2016 only to find out her words were preapproved by the Kremlin.
Geezus

[LakeArenal]

227. Oxford dictionary

Pffft Used to express a contemptuous or dismissive attitude.

[KPN]

171. That would be good. If nothing else,

it would keep economic progressivism visible and in play.

[scarletwoman]

24. Same here. nt

[choie]

27. As does this woman

As a New Yorker, I'm questioning whether I can vote for her for the senate again.

[Wwcd]

35. K & R

"Move on" is a bitter pill to expect Dem loyalists to swallow.
This one will remain stuck in the throats of many who will surely be asked to donate & vote someday.

Al Franken was further elevated in the hearts of Dems the day he outed Sessions as a liar, on Nat'l TV.

I will be watching to see where Gillibrand's campaign donations come from.
We trust but verify everything, after 2016.

That is our duty.

[Alice11111]

58. Yep. She killed off our best Dem warrior, fast, before

the facts could come out. I had helped her a lot. Never more. Worse than a traitor...she led the charge to destroy the Dem voice in the Senate. I would not trade 1 Franken for 1 million Gillibrands, as far as their contributions to the party. She is a zealot self promoter.

She may think she fooled women with her phoney lack of due process to take down men. Not so. She underestimates the intelligence of women, including victims of abuse and sex harassment. All whom I know find her actions very offensive to them....like Omarosa's claim to represent black women. No!

I just hope Franken moves and runs against her, so we can get a legitimate Democratic voice again, rather than her self serving hypocritical voice of traitorism...Bill C, Hillary C, and Al Franken. Who does she think she is?
She can't hold a candle to any of them.

[disndat]

71. Gillibrand had her 15 minutes of fame

and she stepped into a big pile or shot herself in the foot. She has to run in next year's Primaries. Zephyr Teachout should give her a run for her money. I see the Gillabrand team is already demonizing her. They fear Teachout's big threat.

[Alice11111]

73. I hope G loses the primary in a landslide sufficient

to give even her a lesson in humility. Many women are decent, qualified people. She is not.

[dflprincess]

193. Completely agree!

[susanna]

197. This woman takes a hard pass, too. n/t

[Alice11111]

239. [phone]

Done with her forever.

[left-of-center2012]

5. I like Al

Hate what was done to him

[stonecutter357]

6. K&R

[NCTraveler]

7. This is just ignorant and blatant ratfucking. Nt

[left-of-center2012]

9. Tell us how you really feel

[whathehell]

18. Stupidly sexist and simply wrong, as this thread should demonstrate..

As I told the OP,, it's like accusing Black people of voting on race alone.

[choie]

29. Al Franken was the victim

of ratfucking. Not Gillibrand.

[Wellstone ruled]

32. Always remember this,

if it had not been Al Franken's challenge to Jeff Session's lie about meeting certain Russian people,we would not have Mueller,or the investigation into the GOP-Russia Election Corruption.

Do not loose site of one of his most important accomplishments he has done for our Country. Obama gave many Health Care,Al Franken gave us our Nation back.

Tell me what any other Democrat or Republican has done in such a short period of time.

[stuffmatters]

112. Franken also "led" Gorsuch to expose himself pubicly as a robotic judicial zealot

Devoid of common sense, legal maturity and basic human decency.

[Wellstone ruled]

158. Sure did.

And this scared the crap out of the Rethugs.

[stuffmatters]

178. Sure did! Labelled Gorsuch forever as the ahole judge who ruled workers obligated to freeze to death

to protect their boss' property. Rational America gasped in revulsed unison not only bkz Gorsuch made the callous ruling and was still defending it, but that it was made, as Franken pointed out,bkz of Gorsuch's ignorance of the law.

[Alice11111]

59. Exactly

[Demsrule86]

48. It sure is.

[FSogol]

63. +1 Exactly. n/t

[meadowlander]

174. You forgot "transparent".

[WyLoochka]

206. It appears you do not know what ratfucking is

Ratfucking is a dirty trick pulled by one's political opponent.

You know, like No Gradations Gillibrand pulled on Al Franken, who was completely shocked that he could be so casually used by a supposed ally in order for her to one up herself and get her name out there.

That, my dear, is ratfucking.

[whathehell]

8. I'm a female primary voter and I don't vote primarily by Gender

You may as well say that PoC vote on race alone.

[Alice11111]

64. Absolutely. My Repub dentist said that I voted for Hillary

because she is a woman, and like all Dems, I hate rich people. He Added that he likes to work hard and make money to care for himself and his family , and Dems don't want to let him do that. We live in a deep blue area.

After I got his hands out of my.mouth, I asked him if he voted for Trump because he is A man and because Fox News parrots all of the myths that you just spouted after you stuck your hands in my mouth. I said, I used to think you were a smart guy (Chinese American of 9 siblings who grew up running a Chinese laundry family business. All have Ivy League educations ), but you aren't as smart as when I knew you 25 years ago. True. He said, What?

I told him not toput hos hands in my mouth anymore and make ignorant pilitical comments.

We had another discussion about Dems and rich people and the ignorant stuff he saidabout Dems.
God, these Repubs are determined to be stupid.

[StTimofEdenRoc]

14. Are the Democrats (we) also supposed to be the anti-bullying party?

To me this was clearly bullying.

Al Franken deserved to get due process, not to get piled on by other Democratic senators.

[Alice11111]

69. Yes.

The biggest railroading bullying event of the season.

Al, we are so sorry, you were thrown overboard without due process. That is not what the party I have worked for my entire life has done before G inserted herself as the leadership. I will never be a part of her attack on our Democratic principles and dignity.

represents Al Franken.
NOT those who do away with due.process.

[Progressive dog]

17. Females are the majority of Democratic voters

but nowhere near the majority of elected Democrats.
Al Franken is one of 48 Democratic Senators. He is not only not a party leader, he is apparently not trusted by a majority of Democratic Senators. They all know him personally and they asked him to resign.

[Alice11111]

70. You need to get your facts right.

[Progressive dog]

199. Which "facts" do you mean?

[Owl]

19. K&R

[safeinOhio]

20. There are many great women to pick from.

I don't think she is the best.

[Alice11111]

72. or the brightest. Her loyalty has been tested at least 3 times,

I doubt we could find anyone less loyal.

Thousands of loyal Democratic women are prepared to work against her in the primary, probably alot of men too.
I think she is done.

[ClarendonDem]

131. I'll bet $5 that Gillibrand is not done as a senator

And she's got a decent shot at being the Dem candidate for president in 2020.

[Alice11111]

140. We do not need to lose! G is much more divisive than Hillary.

Hillary has always been loyal to the party and level headed. Gillibrand has proven herself to be the opposite.
Most Dems say they will stay home rather than vote for a traitor...not just to Al, but others.

Of course, that could change, as is often the case if we are faced with more Trump or Pence. If she did get the nomination, I think we don't have a prayer to win. She has alienated the Hillary Dems, anyone who cares about due process, the mellenials....

Of all of the potential Dem candidates, any one is head and shoulders above her, but then that isn't a high bar.

As for NY, maybe Hillary herself will run. At any rate, Hillary will support a good Dem who can be trusted, and there are many.

[ClarendonDem]

145. Gillibrand is much more popular

Than a few folks on DU make her out to be. I'm pretty certain she'll continue as a senator in NY. And I'm also pretty certain that HRC is not going to run for any future political office. And a question -- do you think the "Hillary Dems" won't vote for Gillibrand if she's the Dem nominee in 2020?

[Alice11111]

168. The Clintons worked to put her in office. She trashed them..

She is not trustworthy, IMO, and most other Dems from what I read.

No, I am not saying that Hillary Dems won't vote for her.

I am saying, why run a candidate who cannot win and who is compromised, even though many Dems will force themselves to vote for her.

We have so many good Dems, even if I liked her, why take a chance on someone who is compromised, and whom many Dems loathe or have no enthusiasm. Yes, obviously, you and others like her.

I don't even want Hillary to run again, who was the most loyal and qualified candidate ever. I have supported her, always. She is too compromised to win. Why risk it?

Even the Repubs would use the no due process, rush to judgment, against us.

[dlk]

22. I Have a Feeling There Was a Kompromat Piece to the United Dem Calls for Franken's Resignation

Given the bizarre groveling and nauseatingly lavish praise of Trump by Republican Senators and his cabinet, is it difficult to believe that Russian hackers may have dug up dirt on Democratic Senators, too? The Democratic rush to punishment for Franken was highly out of character and needs to be viewed in the context of Franken's outspoken criticism of the Trump regime.

[leftstreet]

26. Heavens

I hadn't thought of that

[Alice11111]

165. Yes, I agree, more info needs to come out, but in the rush to

Judgment, no info came out. Smells very bad. We are.used to that, huh, this doesn't make any sense with Repubs.
However, it caught is all off guard with Franken.

[mchill]

25. This female Democrat will never vote

for Kirsten Gillibrand for anything after this event.

[Kirk Lover]

38. So in a general election it's her and Republican...you won't vote for her? What you'll just stay

home?

[stuffmatters]

97. If Dems don't manifest their aversion to G now, then the DNC too might get behind her w that logic

That if they can get her through the primary..past her "Frankenproblem" ...then all Dems will then unite behind her against a Republican candidate. I think the DNC sees G as a candidate who has appeal to those Trump disaffected suburban Repugs... especially women. I don't thin they're aware of how large a % of Dem voters were disgusted not impressed by the railroading and G's reported part in it.

[Alice11111]

218. I'm with you.

[Rene]

28. Gillibrand should pack her bags and go home for

Backstabbing a fellow Democrat. There were 30 other traitors too.....I’m deeply upset of my state’s Senator piling on.
I really don’t care what else she’s done.

[Demsrule86]

44. I am deeply upset with any person who thinks any Democrat should go home.

[JHB]

92. We dont have the luxury of teliing anyone to pack their bags and leave...

...which, it must be stressed, is precisely what Gillibrand did successfully and is just as precisely why people are so strongly angered at her.

So no, she doesn’t need to back her bags. By all means, let her stay in the Senate.

But leave a presidential run for people who recognize RW ratfucking instead of falling for it.

[Qutzupalotl]

34. An ethics investigation would have revealed Roger Stones involvement.

He has already admitted to foreknowledge of the Franken dirt via a tweet.

Will the ethics investigation proceed now that Franken is out? Somehow I doubt it. And we have Gillibrand and Harris to thank for that.

It’s possible that this purity purge helped Jones win. But we traded away our best bullshit detector in the process.

[Demsrule86]

43. And it is done so let's move on.

[Ghost Owl]

200. Nah

Ain't never moving on from a pursuit of justice and the truth. Why would you want us to?

It's self-preservation to not move on from this. If Roger Stone gets away with rat-fucking the most popular Dem Senator out of office, what's to stop him from doing it to any other elected official? If this was all a rat-fucking (which there is some indication of), we cannot allow this to stand, Roger Stone doesn't get to determine who holds public office.

[Rene]

215. Totally Agree

[Kirk Lover]

36. OMG enough already.

[Demsrule86]

40. [phone]

[crazycatlady]

105. +1000000

[Bleacher Creature]

143. Amen. NT

[erpowers]

37. I Disagree

I am not sure that Al Franken has done more to take on Trump than Kirsten Gillibrand. She has voted against most, if not all, of Trump's nominees. How is Franken the sole reason we have Robert Mueller? How exactly did she hurt us and help Trump in leading the charge for Franken to resign?

I do not see how she really hurt the Democratic Party. Franken's replacement will be a Democrat, so, the Democrats do not lose a seat. Her pushing for Franken to resign, even if people are not happy with her actions, allow the Democratic Party to do something the Republican Party cannot; to say it will not tolerate men who abuse women. Now, that might not help the Democratic Party in that the majority of white women still voted for Roy Moore even though he had been accused by multiple women of trying to date them when they were under-aged, but Democrats can still make the distinction.

[CrispyQ]

208. Not all democrats are created equal.

Franken was a real fighter, a bulldog. We don't have a lot of those in the party. We are fighting for our country, & we just kicked one of our best to the curb. If there are anonymous allegations against our next bulldog, are we going to jettison them, too? Also, if you're going to ruin a person's career & reputation, the accusations should be made publicly, not anonymously. The whole thing stinks. Taking the moral high ground doesn't mean squat when they have their boot on your neck.

Zero tolerance policies are never good.

[Demsrule86]

39. Why do you think this is a post that is needed at this moment. I liked Franken and didn't like

what happened...but this post is simply a vehicle to attack Kirsten Gillibrand who is a Democrat and this is Democratic Underground...and just so you know I am female and disapprove of the Franken thing...but don't like to see Democrats including Sen. Gillibrand trashed. This is a divisive post.

[LakeArenal]

81. I mostly would agree with you...

But I believe Gillibrand is the divisive one.

People make mistakes at work... Gillibrand and a number of others made a huge one to many of us. They are the ones who need to admit it. Then some of us might be willing to move on.

[lunamagica]

42. K&R.

[David__77]

45. Franken chose to resign.

He wasn’t forced to. He’s responsible for abdicating his elected position, should he follow through and quit.

[gopiscrap]

50. agreed

[zentrum]

51. K&R

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. I suggest we do what Al will do, unconditional support of the party

given the alternative are Nazi's killing us.

Or putin killing us, or Nazi's or putin forcing us into subservient life, etc.

Or, we could bad mouth the party resulting in the GOP GAINING power

[LakeArenal]

55. Never trust anyone who calls another person's opinion...

" ignorant and blatant ratfucking".

[aeromanKC]

60. Only way I vote for Gillibrand is with my nose held in the General

Gillibrand is dead to me.

[NurseJackie]

61. Our party will be forever weaker with his departure and absence.

We owe an debt of gratitude to our once-future-President and retiring Senator Franken.

[Kirk Lover]

75. Ok but he's not leaving the party and he didn't die. Just wait with your weaker stuff

maybe Al will be even a bigger force 'on the outside'...let's just wait and see.

[NurseJackie]

135. Lord.

[Ghost Owl]

201. Come on now

That's some Hallmark card platitude, "Al Franken will become even more powerful now"! Please, he just lost all his actual power and ability to enact change. Now that all he has is snark and lingering scandal, you think he'll be more powerful? How? By criticizing the administration? You think they care, you think THAT'S gonna stop them? Did the criticism of net neutrality stop them from doing it?

It's patronizing and vaguely elitist, this attitude that Franken was never more powerful as a Senator than he was as just a smart, snarky comedian. Like Franken wasn't a *real* Senator, and now he's being sent back to where he belongs. He's been put in his place, and leave the governing to the governing class.

[Kirk Lover]

219. I'm trying to be positive. That is all.

[eleny]

62. Then she needs to pick up the baton and get on with it

That's what Al did when Senator Wellstone was killed. It's not too much to expect.

[Cary]

66. We survived.

Our mission now is November. I'm sure Al wants us to put all energy into taking over the House and Senate and state and local governments.

[sheshe2]

106. Exactly Cary.

[Scurrilous]

67. I love the smell of sowing division in the morning.

[Stuckinthebush]

76. I support Kirsten

And I agree with her that Franken should have resigned. Many Dems do. Many Dems Don't.

We have much bigger issues than demonizing her. In fact, it's not productive.

Let's focus on how the GOP and Trump Will destroy this country instead.

[Chasstev365]

77. No; many DON'T agree he should have resigned!

Look at the poll numbers!

[Bradical79]

84. Yup. A rather large majority, in fact.

Seen numbers around 70% thinking he should stay.

[Stuckinthebush]

95. Did I say a majority?

No, I said many.

Why in the hell would we go after a Democratic congresswoman for voicing support for Frankens resignation? It boggles my mind what and who we sometimes attack here.

Ok, so we disagree about Franken. We all agree on Trump and the GOP danger. Focus on that.

[Chasstev365]

154. First of all, she is a Senator, not a "Congresswoman."

Second, Gllenbrand is an opportunist, who turned on one of our best Democratic fighters in the Senate for her aspirations in 2020.

Third, and most importantly, this was a Bull Shit rightwing hit job by "Moscow Sean Hannity's" friend LeAnn Tweeden. She was coached by slime ball Roger Stone! It had no merit, but the media went with it and tried to make a false eqivlency with Roy Moore!

Fourth, because the Democrats played right into the Right's game plan, they will do it again!

Know your facts!!!!!!!

[LakeArenal]

169. Well said.

[mythology]

129. Polls taken recently when Franken's groping hasn't been in the news

On the other hand, this one taken when it was in the news had half saying he needed to resign and only 22% saying he shouldn't.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/22/al-franken-senate-resign-poll-257554

But public polling isn't exactly the be all end all, especially given how fractured it can be by party. A vast majority of Republicans didn't want Roy Moore to withdraw from the Senate race in Alabama. But even if the public was/is against him resigning doesn't change the moral calculus. He repeatedly groped women. We have the same level of evidence against him as we have for Donald Trump, Roy Moore, Harvey Weinstein etc. If you believe the women in those cases, and only not against Franken because he's a Democrat, you're putting party over principle. You either believe all of the women who accused Franken are lying because he's such an immaculate hero (if he was, he wouldn't have taken that pretend groping picture) or that those women should deal with it because Franken is more important.

You can't have it both ways. People can't say Trump should resign or Moore should have withdrawn if you then say Franken needed an ethics investigation. Frankly the ethics investigation would have been a joke, they almost always are. Neither house in Congress should be able to investigate itself. Just like the police shouldn't.

[Nevernose]

155. Absolutely patently false

Moore’s accusers were named and their stories vetted, and the victim of the sexual assault was approached by a legitimate, well respected newspaper, and had nothing to gain but public humiliation.

Franken’s named accusers are literal, documented GOP operatives, coordinated by Roger Stone. The stories either turned out to be lies (like the picture) or nonsensical (he secretly wanted to kiss me on my lips while everyone watched, but actually kissed me on my cheek; he put his hand around my waist while we took a picture together and it made me feel fat; the stories are true because in 2006 he looked at my cleavage).

Most were anonymous accusations, done through blogging sites like Jezebel or HuffPo. The authors of those articles have documented histories of falling for rape hoaxes — even defending the hoaxers after the hoax was verified as a hoax. None of that “double checking and undercover camera” stuff like the The Post did, which is why the anonymous “accusers” went to GOSSIP SITES instead of reporters.

And even then, one of the anonymous accusations was LITERALLY “Al Franken did NOT kiss me, and then paraphrased Trump’s Access Hollywood tape.” No wonder people say critical thinking isn’t taught in schools anymore.

[Ghost Owl]

203. Your poll is outdated

the most recent poll indicated half of Minnesotans DIDN'T want him to resign: [link:http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/366653-poll-half-of-minnesotans-dont-think-franken-should-go-through-with|] 70% of Minnesotan dems didn't want him to resign, and he actually polled higher among women than men.

I don't know why you think more currant polls are less valuable than older ones. As more information got out, and people could really digest the information and make an informed choice rather than a knee-jerk reaction, they didn't want him out, they wanted him to stay and have an ethics hearing at least.

And there's no comparing Franken's accusers with Moore's and Weinstein's. Moore and Weinstein had their accusers thoroughly vetted over a period of weeks/months, by WaPo and Farrow. We know the vetting process because we were told it by the journalists that covered it. Franken's 8 accusers appeared in 7 different minor media outlets, two weren't vetted at all, four were anonymous, and we don't know what vetting standards the six that actually got them were put through. Vetting is more than just "The accuser brought a friend who told us that the accuser told them the story too", which is all most of the articles gave us. And most of these stories broke within days, there simply was not enough time to properly vet the accusation. And you do that not because you think the accuser is lying, but because you want to prove that they aren't by providing the most independent corroborating evidence you can.

If Franken's accusers had gotten the same vetting and corroboration that the Moore accusers did, there would not be this cloud of suspicion and doubt. Throwing these stories out there without proper vetting didn't help Franken OR the accusers. It only helped the media outlet get page hits.

[Stuckinthebush]

85. Many do

Frankly it's irrelevant. He did. I, like many Dems, felt it was the right thing to do.

The point is that good, well meaning Dems supported it then and now. There are much bigger fights that don't require us beating each other up. Let's focus on those.

[LakeArenal]

94. Irrelevant?

Speak for yourself....

[Stuckinthebush]

99. I think that's what most of us do here

In the big picture it is.

But, by all means, let's start a ridiculous fight that may cause us to lose a seat. We are really good at that.

[LakeArenal]

103. WHAT?

The big picture is someone named Gillibrand and Schumer caused us to lose a seat.. And yeah they were really good at that.

Al Supporters didn't start the fire.

Never trust anyone who uses the word ridiculous in arguing the point against another opinion.

[Stuckinthebush]

108. Tina Smith is a Democrat

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/tina-smith-replace-al-franken-minnesota-senator.html

A good progressive. It seems that we didn't lose a seat after all

[Wwcd]

114. Smith will represent the Dems well.

Solid Dem creds.
Reminds me of Hillary in her fight for women's rights over their own bodies.

I.e. Planned Parenthood

[Stuckinthebush]

115. And MN now has two female Senators

For the first time. Nice!

[Wwcd]

120. Stronger Together & we'll need all we can get to reverse the damage done

..to women's & girls rights by Trump/Pence.

[LakeArenal]

116. Okay you got me on the word seat

So that means it’s okay to sweep Al amdthe rest of us under the rug. We aren’t irrelevant and we are not starting some ridiculous feud.

Gillibrand started this fire. I want to see how she puts it out.

[questionseverything]

161. in 10 monthes she will have to defend that seat

a seat that should of been safe until 2020

a seat it took 8 months to take from coleman... that recount that most dems don't have the nerve for

dems are already in a bad position of having to defend so many senate seats in 2018 while the repubs only have 2 to defend

kg has made it nearly impossible to retake the senate

not to mention,no one has convinced me franken did anything wrong at all

I also resent kg for trying to push some puritan no touch mentality on the rest of us

[Wwcd]

110. Both Sanders & Ellison jumped on that G bandwagon

Last edited Sat Dec 30, 2017, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Yup. B & E either agreed with G or they saw an opportunity.
For what they both did to Franken, as Indys no less, They are neither worthy of support just as G & the rest.
Ya, thats some real "progressive" bs there.

[USALiberal]

121. Nope, Nope and Nope. Wrong on all counts. n/t

[Bradical79]

79. Franken could run again

He's popular enough in his home state.

[dalton99a]

136. Yeah, let's push him out and see if he can go back in

just for shits and giggles

[heaven05]

80. We have lost

a sane, involved Senator....I think extreme damage has been done with his being railroaded out of the Senate and that POS potus just keeps on going despite being a sexual predator of the 1st and perverted rank. He liked naked teenage girls but NO ONE wants to say a word about or keep hammering away at just what kind of sexual deviant this POS potus is. Fucking amazing.

[Alice11111]

87. Wonder why Gillibrand didn't take on the Pervert in Chief,

rather than Al, who was ranked the best Senator to work for, by women. I think we know the answer.

[heaven05]

89. yep

we know it....sigh but I would like to see him run for POTUS even with these bullshit charges...look at the pervert-in-chief....compare when things happened. People are saying in the POS potus defense...he did all before he was where he is now...so, allegedly, did Al Franken. Fuck this rank hypocrisy...no favors were done by those who railroaded Franken.

[Stuckinthebush]

101. Like this?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/12/16766466/donald-trump-kirsten-gillibrand

[cp]

91. Do not support Dems helping RW creeps ratfrack a fellow Dem

Will never vote for Gillibrand.

[Alice11111]

93. +1000000

Dems must support Dems.


She disqualified herself.

[LakeArenal]

100. Do you think if Gilli would admit what a huge mistake she made...

It would help us "get over it"? I think it's the only way she could soften me up right now..

I know, not a chance... But geez, for once I'd love to see an honest politician say... Ooops, my bad.

[Alice11111]

113. Leahy sort of did. I think she has run out of time to try

to correct her assasination plot. If she could have turned things around and stopped his resignation, I would have given her a second chance, even though she has done permanent damage to our party. Good People do make mistakes, but this was no mistake, and she did.not take responsibility.

She.has made no effort to do anything but promote herself. I think her apology would be a self serving formality after she has dragged our party through the mud and tainted it with railroading hysterical mobs who don't honor due process...that was the Repubs gig, before her.

I have heard many die hard Dems say they are no longer a Dem because of her. Just done, if Dems support her. Some left this site. To me, there is no alternative, but we should.purge the party of those destroying our it.

[LakeArenal]

117. Gee Alice, you state the position so well

I have to say: you go girl!!!

I stand with Al and Alice...

[Alice11111]

126. Wow! Thank you, LakeArenal, you made my day.

Now, if we could just get Al back.

[Duppers]

194. +100

[dflprincess]

96. This

Though I will vote for the Democratic candidate in 2020..even if I'm grinding my teeth when I do it. Before then I can't have a lot of confidence in any Democrat who is so easily manipulated by Republicans.

[Alice11111]

127. Yeah, and, unfortuntely, not just manipulated by Repubs.

We were all aghast.

[FSogol]

102. Threads like this show me that DU hasn't learned a damn thing from 2016. DU is primed and ready to

tear itself apart and bash any Democrat that plans or thinks about running. Franken wasn't and isn't planning a run for the Presidency. He certainly wouldn't approve of the "bash every Democrat" personality cult that is growing in his name.

Pathetic.

[LakeArenal]

107. Never trust anyone who uses words like pathetic in an reference to someone else's opinion.

[Alice11111]

130. Yeah, sounds sort of like, "Believe me. Believe me."

[Stuckinthebush]

109. Agreed

We are very good at this silliness

[dansolo]

221. I reserve my bashing to those who attack good Democrats

Which also includes Bernie, who never seems to stop attacking the Democratic party.

[quickesst]

119. The people who want this to be over...

.... are those who really really wish it was over because....

[jodymarie aimee]

132. I hesitated to post this, but since we are still talking about her...

I bought and read part of her book, and returned it. She whined nonstop about the men in the Senate because she had put on a lot of weight. I deemed her a whiner. I am a victim of Domestic Abuse....I am not fond of whiners. And the book was a total bore. Never been a fan of hers since then.

[democratisphere]

133. You are correct. Female Democratic Primary Voters are important,

but not at the expense of an innocent Democratic Party Leader like Al Franken.

[Bleacher Creature]

138. We're still doing this? One day from 2018?

It's time to move on.

[JHB]

202. I'm guessing this was prompted by a recent Gillibrand-cheerleading thread...

...so yeah, we're still doing this. It is a bit too soon to sing her praises without even acknowledging why many faithful Democrats have more than a little reason to not be particularly thrilled with her.

[Bleacher Creature]

216. Fair point.

I just don't get the fixation on Gillibrand. She's not a loose cannon by any stretch, and she's the junior Senator from a state where the senior Senator is the Senate Minority Leader. I'd be shocked if she didn't run the timing and message by the party leadership. Hell, I'm guessing Schumer made the call and got Gillibrand to make the first move as a way of raising her profile.

I agree that it's probably too soon to start singing her praises, but I'd also have no problem whatsoever with her as the nominee in 2020.

[JHB]

224. She's the one who started the "resign, now" ball rolling...

...so she gets the heat from everyone who thinks Franken deserved a fair hearing in the face of a conservative ratfucking op. Possibly to knock out a 2020 presidential rival, or merely overly-hasty reaction. I don't know if she ran it by the party leadership, but yes or no, she took the lead, and she has to take the opprobrium from those who consider it a bad (really bad) call.

That's a "we have to move on" thing too, now, because Gillibrand can't change that at this stage, and people who think she did the Republicans' dirty work for them are going to keep thinking it. Singing her praises won't change that. The only thing that can change it is action -- Being as sharp a Trump/Republican opponent as Al was.

If she's the candidate in 2020 I'll vote for her, but before that she'll need to run in the primary. And for that, she's in a deficit. Already has points against.

[napi21]

226. I on't want her as our nominee! IMO she has little to no personality. It's necessary to get

voters to like you. Remember the voters who said they weren't voting for Hillary because they just don't like her?

[dansolo]

223. That was exactly why I started this thread

I was especially bothered by the thread praising her taking on Trump. I don't recall her holding a press conference when the Access Hollywood tape came out before the election. That is the time when her righteous indignation might have made a difference.

This is what she tweeted at the time: "This sort of sickening dialogue from @realDonaldTrump has no place in our society and certainly no place in the Presidential race."

Donald Trump was talking about sexually assaulting women, and all she talked about was his language. That was a pretty mild response for someone who is supposed to be such a champion against sexual assault. That is why I think she is a fraud.

[pamdb]

142. As a democratic woman

She didn't appeal to me. Still doesn't. Al Franken is worth 10 of her and I don't see this new woman being nearly as strong as Franken. If Crazy Eyes runs against her in 2018, I hate to say it but I could see her winning. Even in Minnesota. I am still pissed at all the democrats who jumped on the wagon against Al. Won't affect my vote, I will ALWAYS vote democratic but I will always hold this against Gillibrand. Old (66) white woman from Michigan here.

[drray23]

175. maybe you should check your facts first.

Both Franken and Gillibrand had been in the senate since 2009.

[LexVegas]

147. Who will speak for the oppressed old white males?

[Heartstrings]

151. Focus on midterms!

Get a dem elected as POTUS and Al can be ambassador to the country of his choosing....

He was "their" sacrificial lamb.

[MoonRiver]

159. Or, Al can be POTUS, and appoint Kirsten ambassador to the country of her choice!

[Heartstrings]

166. That'll work!

[BootinUp]

163. I never did believe in biting ones tongue. K&R

[Auntie Bush]

177. Im a female Dem voter and wont be voting for her.

I will never forgive her for pushing Franken out.

[orleans]

196. same here n/t

[pnwmom]

191. Well, women made up 57% of Democratic primary voters, men 43%.

But I disagree that no men care about the issue.

[orleans]

195. she certainly didn't win this female dem over

i never heard of her until the crap with franken.
and i have a real shit opinion of her now.
if she was targeting female dems she really fucked up b/c there are a lot of female dems pissed as hell at her little stunt.

[IronLionZion]

198. Donald Trump, Roy Moore, Harvey Weinstein and lots of patriarchal perverts tell us to "move on"

"let it go already", "it was in the past", as they kept on abusing other women without consequences.

Al Franken didn't say any of that. He agreed to resign so that our party would not have even the appearance of impropriety or let the GOP use him against us.

That should tell every DUer something very important about Franken's character and integrity.

[MoonRiver]

207. Kick

[Jakes Progress]

212. She actually set back the fight against trump.

[flamingdem]

214. Inside scoop from the mouth of a DCCC person I met on Franken:

Asked his opinion and he seemed indifferent to the Franken disaster.

He told me that he (and his ilk I gathered) thought Franken was an opportunist. Once
his entertainment career was ending he took up politics to stay in the spotlight. He's
"no Obama". Didn't spend years hitting the streets doing his time or some such.

There you have it. This is the way they think. They don't like him because he's just a
freaking artist and exceptionally talented. Just not a lifelong politician.

This is how they think. Others will be and have been pushed out. Artists beware
you're not welcome.

This is such a pile of bs. Franken went to Harvard and was better than many of the
dem legal minds during hearings.

The only silver lining here is that we know not to trust certain people in 2020.

[dalton99a]

222. We know who the next Lieberman is

[ananda]

220. True!

That's why she and the party establishment went after him.

The whole thing stinks!

I want Franken Back!

[Alice11111]

233. Thanks for speaking the truth, OP.

[LanternWaste]

237. I especially enjoyed how all the evidence you supplied supporting your premise was cited and sourced

I especially enjoyed how all the objective evidence you supplied for us supporting your premise was cited and sourced... rather than the simplistic three sentence-editorial filled with nothing other than unsupported claims, groundless allegations and biased charges.