Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:18 PM Dec 2017

Why hasn't Trump offered pardon to Flynn yet??

What would he give a pardon for? After all, Flynn has only been charged with lying to the FBI.

Can he pardon him for crimes not yet charged or crimes that he might commit in the future?? I don't think so.

In my opinion, this lack of charges against Flynn is keeping Trump from pardoning him.

Mueller sort of has him between a rock and a hard place.

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why hasn't Trump offered pardon to Flynn yet?? (Original Post) kentuck Dec 2017 OP
Because Flynn is going to be his patsy. marble falls Dec 2017 #1
I think he was going to and then changed his mind dalton99a Dec 2017 #2
It wouldnt make a difference. djg21 Dec 2017 #18
Because the new strategy is that Flynn is a liar The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #3
But Nixon was an "unindicted co-conspirator"... kentuck Dec 2017 #6
They said at the time this was a blanket pardon- dawg day Dec 2017 #14
Everything. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #15
He'll throw Flynn under the bus first Zambero Dec 2017 #4
Trump is using Wellstone ruled Dec 2017 #5
If Flynn is pardoned he would still have to testify EricMaundry Dec 2017 #7
True. It is my understanding that he cannot take the "Fifth"... kentuck Dec 2017 #9
That is how I see it EricMaundry Dec 2017 #10
Probably because Flynn has already told the Mueller everything he knows Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2017 #8
i'll bet Mueller has a back up witness for every 'lie' flynn tells spanone Dec 2017 #11
What would Trump get out of pardoning him NOW? dawg day Dec 2017 #12
He has already told the facts to Mueller and state AG's.....it's too late! tableturner Dec 2017 #13
As others have said, Flynn could be pardoned for charges which have yet to be filed. rsdsharp Dec 2017 #16
But if he were pardoned for crimes he has not yet been charged with.... kentuck Dec 2017 #17
He already bit the bullet and told all and Mueller gave him a plea deal to not prosecute more. WyattKansas Dec 2017 #19
Because right now Flynn is a provable, certified liar. Calista241 Dec 2017 #20
 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
18. It wouldnt make a difference.
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:40 PM
Dec 2017

Flynn already negotiated a deal for himself and his son. Undoubtedly, he agreed to take a reduced sentence and likely reduced or no prison time for himself or his son in exchange for information his waiver the 5th Amendment and agreement to testify. Mueller would offer a plea deal like this only after hearing a proffer, and he most probably already has assessed the info provided by Flynn and knows what Flynn’s testimony will be.

If Flynn is pardoned, he still will have to testify. The 5th Amendment no longer would present an issue for past crimes, and he could be compelled via subpoena to testify to the extent he refuses.

Irrespective of how his testimony comes about, if he changes his story, he can be prosecuted for perjury. If pardoned, he also can be prosecuted by a State, and NY AG Schneiderman sees this as his big opportunity.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,869 posts)
3. Because the new strategy is that Flynn is a liar
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:28 PM
Dec 2017

and they are going to use that argument to discredit whatever he says. Flynn can be pardoned for crimes not yet charged (that's what Ford did for Nixon), so that would have nothing to do with it. Trump is boxed in worse than Flynn because he can't credibly pardon him while accusing him of being a liar, especially after so zealously defending him while he (Flynn) was still working for him.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
14. They said at the time this was a blanket pardon-
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:53 PM
Dec 2017

and that if Nixon had committed murder while in office (as far as we know, he didn't <G&gt , the pardon would have covered that.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,869 posts)
15. Everything.
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 02:01 PM
Dec 2017

He gave him a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he might have committed against the United States while president. It doesn't matter that he was never indicted.

Zambero

(8,971 posts)
4. He'll throw Flynn under the bus first
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:30 PM
Dec 2017

In order to escape prosecution for greater crimes, Flynn has cooperated with the Russia investigation. Therefore, he lacks "loyalty" and will heretofore be branded as a "liar".

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
5. Trump is using
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:30 PM
Dec 2017

Flynn as a stirring stick in order to muddy the Media Waters. Understand he has done similiar things in order to screw up State Investigations against him by throwing all kinds of lies and flat out false statements. When questioned,he would just say don't remember or use a lie he had already said as fact.

 

EricMaundry

(1,619 posts)
7. If Flynn is pardoned he would still have to testify
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:32 PM
Dec 2017

After all, how can he incriminate himself when he has been pardoned? He would have to talk.

Trump would get no benefit from pardoning Flynn.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
9. True. It is my understanding that he cannot take the "Fifth"...
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:35 PM
Dec 2017

..once he has been pardoned, or he would be subject to the law of perjury? He might be more dangerous to Trump if he is pardoned?

 

EricMaundry

(1,619 posts)
10. That is how I see it
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:48 PM
Dec 2017

Trump will only use his pardon when it benefits him personally. Pardoning Flynn would only help Flynn.

spanone

(135,886 posts)
11. i'll bet Mueller has a back up witness for every 'lie' flynn tells
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:50 PM
Dec 2017

he has to know that the 'liar' claim was coming for a long time....trump is only loyal to trump

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
12. What would Trump get out of pardoning him NOW?
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:51 PM
Dec 2017

Mueller would have gotten all the info in sworn statements by now.
Flynn would have to testify even if pardoned. He would not have 5th amendment protection then against federal charges.
He could be indicted in state courts.

Not to mention his SON could be indicted, which obviously Flynn doesn't want.

That's not to say Trump wouldn't do it-- he's not the most rational person. He pardoned Joe Arpaio when there was little reason to do so. No one can keep him from doing a pardon, and that's the sort of crazy power he likes.

I think it will be devastating politically, except that everything he does has little effect on his base. I think it might scrape off some GOP supporters, though. (Go back to when Ford pardoned Nixon-- he lost the standard GOP support, though not the few remaining Nixon fans.)

tableturner

(1,684 posts)
13. He has already told the facts to Mueller and state AG's.....it's too late!
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 01:52 PM
Dec 2017

Maybe had he pardoned Flynn before the FBI cooperation, it would have helped, but that would have set off a huge explosion for Trump to have dealt with.

rsdsharp

(9,205 posts)
16. As others have said, Flynn could be pardoned for charges which have yet to be filed.
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:06 PM
Dec 2017

However, Flynn hasn't just been charged with lying to the FBI. He pled guilty to that charge.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
17. But if he were pardoned for crimes he has not yet been charged with....
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 03:10 PM
Dec 2017

...it would appear that the person doing the pardon would know there were other crimes and would be complicit in the process...

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
19. He already bit the bullet and told all and Mueller gave him a plea deal to not prosecute more.
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:06 PM
Dec 2017

More that he could still face charges on, along with his son. And the State of New York is working in tandem, which Donnie Dufus can't pardon.

Only way out for Donnie Dufus is to discredit Flynn.

Mueller already set up the check mate strategy on Donnie Dufus' legal dream team.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
20. Because right now Flynn is a provable, certified liar.
Thu Dec 28, 2017, 04:09 PM
Dec 2017

Any statements he makes before any court will count for jack shit.

And given the cooperation between Flynn’s and Trump’s legal team before the plea, Trump’s lawyers probably have a thorough understanding of what Flynn had to turn over.

You don’t have to believe me, Listen to Preet Bharara’s podcast about it.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why hasn't Trump offered ...