Wal-Mart Suspends a Controversial Shoplifting Punishment

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Until recently, a first-time shoplifter caught in any of about 2,000 Wal-Mart stores got a choice: pay hundreds of dollars, complete an education program and all will be forgiven—or don’t and potentially face prosecution.

Corrective Education Co. and Turning Point Justice, Utah-based companies that provide the programs, emerged in recent years as alternatives to the often-overtaxed criminal justice system. They spare law-enforcement resources and hold offenders accountable without leaving the scar of a criminal conviction, their supporters say.

But Wal-Mart Stores Inc., one of the biggest clients of Turning Point and Corrective Education, suspended the programs earlier this month as more local officials questioned the legality of asking people for money under threat of criminal sanctions, though it said it found the programs effective at reducing shoplifting and calls to police.

The move followed a ruling from a California court in August finding that Corrective Education’s program violates state extortion laws.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/wal-mart-suspends-a-controversial-shoplifting-punishment/ar-BBH7s4z?li=BBnb4R7&ocid=edgsp

[dalton99a]

1. Kick

[JNelson6563]

2. The police are Walmart security.

Taxpayers pay for it. Either way, the people pay.

[USALiberal]

4. You mean like every other business in the USA? n/t

[rzemanfl]

6. Wal-Mart uses an excessive amount of police resources in comparison to other stores. This has

been reported on for quite a while.

[USALiberal]

8. What other options do they have? I assume the more stores you have....

then there are more chances for shop lifting? Walmart has a lot of stores.

And since Walmart cannot arrest people they call the police.

[rzemanfl]

9. Here is something from my neck of the woods.

http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/public-safety/walmart-police/

[hatrack]

18. "Wal-Mart's Bleeding This Town" Official Says As Raytown Faces Police Layoffs

As Raytown city leaders and police officials wrestle with cutting more than $3 million from the police budget — and eliminating as many as 17 officers — they are seizing upon a particular burden on police: Walmart.

In a city of about 10 square miles officers made more than 500 arrests last year at the Walmart store at 10300 E. U.S. 350. The store is the scene of about 30 percent of Raytown’s reported serious crimes.

Meanwhile, Walmart does not contribute taxes for police services. The TIF deal that built the store a decade ago diverts about $300,000 in tax dollars away from public safety every year.

On Tuesday, as the Raytown Board of Aldermen talked with police officials about cutting about 30 percent of the department’s budget and its full-time positions, Alderman Eric Teeman suggested labeling the Walmart a “public nuisance.”

EDIT

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article175722651.html

[USALiberal]

21. Raytown decided to do the TIF plan to get the business in their city. No one forced them to do it. n

[hatrack]

22. Oh, yeah, not unusual (but ironic, considering it's in the middle of KC) . . .

It's not like there aren't other places to go shopping (hell, other Wal-Marts) within five miles or less.

And then the chickens come home to roost. Too bad nobody seems to think these things through beforehand.

[Nevernose]

39. When I was a probation officer

For juveniles, about 15 years ago, it would get slower during summer vacation. That’s mostly when I would get assigned monkeying around with juvenile crime statistics (technical term ).

One out of three shoplifting citations was from Wal-Mart.

They weren’t getting ripped off more than other stores. They just called the police more often. For anything and everything, no matter how trifling. It’s an enormous waste of taxpayer resources, IMO, to call the police for a stolen candy bar, especially when considering the costs — paperwork for the police, probation intake, probation paperwork, DA’s office, public defender, court, potentially Family & Youth services.

[Lee-Lee]

40. Yeah, Wal-Mary has a zero tolerance policy

No matter what if they catch you stealing you are getting the police called, report done and banned from the store with an official trespass warning, and most likely prosecuted.

Around half the arrests I made at Wal-Mart were not even shoplifting as the main or most serious charge, but were trespassing charges. People who had been caught shoplifting there or another Wal-Mart before and who had been banned from the all Wal-Mart property who then returned.

Typically it was both- someone who had been caught shoplifting before and come back and been caught shoplifting again and was also on the trespass list.

Often in my area they would let them go without prosecuting if it was a first offense there and under $20, just get a report and have them formally trespassed from all Wal-Mart property. But around 70% of those folks ended up caught again stealing there and now faced trespassing and shoplifting charges instead of just trespassing.

What the shoplifters didn’t catch on to was that Wal-Marts loss prevention people worked multiple stores in a region, so that same guy who caught you stealing in the next county over yesterday may be in the store you drove over to today thinking nobody knew you had been banned.

[Lee-Lee]

16. The demand would be somewhere if it wasnt Wal-Mart

It’s just that Wal-Mart in many communities is the major shopping option and attracts the majority of those intent on theft or who are otherwise disruptive.

When I was a deputy those were our two major calls there- shoplifter and drunk/disorderly.

If the Wal-Mart wasn’t there the same people would be out shoplifting. And the same people would be out drunk or still be the kind of people who sober get into fights in public.

They would just be doing it scattered all over in other places.

It’s not that Wal-Mart causes any of it, it’s just that they end up being the focal point for that behavior and draw it in and away from other places.

I didn’t do the job before there was a Wal-Mart in our county but I started not long after it opened, everyone told me it was the same people but there were just doing it in K-Mart and other places instead.

[hatrack]

19. It's that SOP for WM is to get TIFs that mean they don't pay any local taxes . . .

So who covers the extra police costs? Everybody else.

[Lee-Lee]

23. That I cant say

I would imagine it’s diffrrent for every locality.

In the case where I worked they located in a place that had city water but was outside the city limits so they only paid county taxes. That meant as a county Sheriffs Office we were the primary LE agency.

The city annexed them pretty fast. After that the city PD got to handle all the calls there.

I understand that they used the revenue to add a few more officers and had some money left over, but I don’t know if they came out ahead overall right away. There was more development in that area that followed Wal-Marts lead so I imagine after the other development began paying taxes the overall annexation was a positive cash flow.

They did it in a way where they annexed the Wal-Mart and all the commercial properties along that strip but gerrymandered the annexation so avoid bringing any of the meth infested trailer parks into the city limits. So we got the joy of continuing to cover those.

[rzemanfl]

20. Thank you for this response, which makes an interesting point.

I find myself wondering if some company wanted to build a huge discount bar that would draw all the drunks and bar fighters to a single location the powers that be would cut their taxes as an incentive.

[JNelson6563]

30. None quite on this scale.

Many a small town devotes too much police force labor dollars to walmart. I reckon you have a good defense for it though. "Jobs!!1!" perhaps? Yes, the very best jobs.

Ugh.

[rzemanfl]

3. That's extortion and they should be prosecuted.

Just as the California court said and in any other state where they've pulled this. If the ruling was in August, why did they wait until now?

[former9thward]

31. So you would rather see people get a criminal conviction on their record?

[rzemanfl]

32. Than make WalMart employees judge and jury? Hell yes.

Far too easy for the innocent to be accused by WalMart staff to make money for these schools. Remember the judge a while back who was getting kickbacks from for profit reform schools? There is a reason for laws against extortion.

[former9thward]

33. What BS.

So everyone accused of shoplifting is innocent. Walmart is in a big conspiracy to get people to go to some school. But you have no problem with judges making these people pay fines and getting a record. OK, know where you are coming from.

[rzemanfl]

34. Think what you want. You've made up your mind. We have judges, juries and the

presumption of innocence for a reason. If you want to replace that with "pay us or we will cause you a lot of trouble" I want no part of it.
That's how the Mafia does things.

[former9thward]

35. I guess you missed the part about being able to say "No".

If they want to go to court, pay fines and get a record, all they have to do is decline Walmart's offer. But I suppose you think they are incapable of doing that.

[rzemanfl]

38. You or I, counselor, if wrongly accused of shoplifting and told we could pay for a class

or go to court, would go to court. Would the average Wal-Mart shopper, many of whom don't even have a checking account, be sophisticated enough to make the same call? It only takes a couple of dishonest people to set up a scenario where false accusations and kickbacks come into play. Preying on the vulnerable is the way that would work.

Happy holidays.

[Skittles]

5. it should be the courts offering this, not Walmart

[Mosby]

25. most large cities already do

They are called diversion programs, after completion the crime is removed from your record.

[MichMan]

7. Sounds like the program was keeping people from having a record

Sounds like it was optional and not mandatory. Seems like it would have helped a lot of people who didn't want a record.

Now everyone will just be turned over to the police instead and go through the legal system. Fines and court costs may end up costing more anyway

[rzemanfl]

10. It's extortion, "pay us or we will have you prosecuted." n/t

[VMA131Marine]

11. Sorry but "pay us hundreds of dollars or we'll prosecute" sounds like extortion

Given that most of the people they catch probably can't afford the fee or the fines. If they were interested in giving a real second chance the fee would be something nominal <$50.

[IluvPitties]

27. What if the value of the stolen item exceeds $50?

[elehhhhna]

12. Extrajudicial extortionate justice for profit. Yay.

[Orangepeel]

13. Go through an education program and avoid a record sounds great

Pay hundreds of dollars and avoid a record sounds like a way to only punish poor people. The program has to be paid for, but it could probably be a tax write-off anyway.

[cwydro]

14. Do not steal.

It’s really not that hard.

[Cha]

15. Yeah, that's the easiest and

best way.

[Lee-Lee]

17. Small town shopkeepers did a similar thing forever

Get caught shoplifting? Here is your choice of either doing some work here to clean up or getting arrested.

As long as it’s not forced, and offered as an alternative, I don’t see an issue with it.

Before this existed you got caught shoplifting and you had no choice, you would be prosecuted.

With this program you had option A, prosecution and a record, or option B this program.

If it goes away your back to only one option, being prosecuted.

Yeah, both options suck. If you don’t want to face a decision between two shitty options I would advise not being a thief and stealing stuff.

I am imagining most of the time when people took this option it was younger folks whose parents were paying for it to try and keep them from having a record.

[nolabels]

24. Just one more reason why Wal-Mart SUCKS

And I have just wasted 3 minutes of my life for a store I don't and haven't shopped at for twenty years

[IluvPitties]

26. No sympathy for shoplifters from me.

[Phoenix61]

28. One of the reasons Wal-Mart is so attractive

to shoplifters is there are so few staff on the floor. I was working at Sears many years ago when they decided to move the cash registers out of individual departments and place them in central areas in the aisles. They were going to save money on payroll. They did not anticipate shop lifting losses skyrocketing. Personnel were no longer in departments available to assist customers or keep an eye out for shop lifting.

[LeftyMom]

37. Yep

It's why they have the electronics and makeup in walled off areas with ample staff. Those things are small and easy to steal. Everything else is essentially unattended because they've decided high shrink is cheaper than staffing.

Also when is the last time you saw a store even half the size so little visible loss prevention staff? (I'm reluctant to even count the doddering seniors making highlighter marks on receipts.)

Their failure to have reasonable staffing and loss prevention shifts costs to municipalities that other stores don't because they hire enough people to keep an eye on their merchandise.

[heaven05]

29. fine example

of ameriKKKan predatory-extortionist capitalism aimed at the poor. Fine example....

[parkerMcDavis]

36. Costco does the same thing