When men around you make sexist or offensive sexual statements,

[MineralMan]

Last edited Sat Dec 23, 2017, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

A good comeback is to say simply, "What if I said that about your wife (sister, mother, whatever)?

That used to work a treat when I was in high school and some jerk started in with that sort of thing about some girl. It's a useful little object lesson.

Note: I'm addressing this to other males who encounter males saying crap. I'm not suggesting that women do this. It's a peer-to-peer strategy. It worked in high school to make high school boys think. It has worked in adulthood, too, if not quite as well.

[underthematrix]

1. When I was in my twenties a

male coworker told me he wanted to come over to my house and show me a good time. I said fine as long as my boyfriend can go over to your house and show wife a good time too. That was the last time he said something like that to me.

I would say what I had to say at that the time and that would be the end of it.

[MineralMan]

2. Good comeback, and one that apparently worked.

I can't say that such comebacks always work, because they don't, but making the person think of it in a different way can be instructive, I think, and perhaps awaken some sort of realization in the offender.

[DURHAM D]

3. Why can't you just say "That is offensive" ?

[MineralMan]

5. Because that just got a shrug.

Making it personal had a more effective result, in that it made the offending person think.

I could also have said, "STFU with that crap," which would also have gotten the shrug.

[Squinch]

4. MM, I know you mean well with this, but it simply isn't that easy, and this isn't good advice.

What we women are talking about when we talk about sexual abuse? Your "comeback" would a) be like bringing a peashooter to a bomb throwing contest, and b) do nothing to stop the offense.

It would also be appealing to the offender by continuing his misconception that a woman's right not to be harassed is somehow attached to being attached to a man. I'm not willing to do that.

There is also no harassment situation I can think of that I have been in where there was opportunity to say anything without engaging someone I didn't want to engage.

This isn't a discussion in which we are looking for snappy comebacks. This is a much bigger thing than that, and it's much more complex and there is much more at stake than a situation in which a snappy comeback is going to "work a treat."

[MineralMan]

6. I'm a guy. I talk to guys, one person at a time.

It's not about a "snappy comeback." It's about creating a reason to think. Remember, this was high school, not a workplace.

If I can make someone think about what they said, then I have an opportunity to begin to create a change in that particular individual.

I didn't say it was easy. I said that I did that in that situation.

[Squinch]

7. When I was younger and a man was sexually harassing me, nothing I said was going to make him think

about what he was doing. I was a human being standing in front of him. That wasn't enough to make him see my humanity.

[MineralMan]

8. I'm sure you're right.

I'm not a girl or a woman. It wasn't me being sexually harassed. My comment was to try to get the offender to think about what he was saying. It worked most of the time when I did that. Clearly I was saying, "Hey, don't say crap like that" and disapproving. But I was saying something else, too, in an attempt to get the idea across that it was a real person he was talking about. It worked.

I'm for doing what works in a given situation.

BTW, I edited the original post to clarify to whom I was writing.

[Squinch]

9. It might work from a man. I don't know. For me as a woman, I noticed different things about

different harassment situations.

First, in those instances when a woman is alone and cornered somewhere, the man is not doing it out of any attraction. He is doing it to show dominance. In that situation, the best thing to do is get out of the vicinity. Trying to engage such a man in conversation is dangerous because you don't know how far he is planning to go with his dominance experience.

Second, men who harass women in public usually do it also to show dominance, but usually for the purpose of impressing the men around him. That would be the assholes who abuse waitresses and the assholes who catcall women on the street. They choose situations where women are economically or locationally unable to avoid them. Again, trying to engage them in a conversation to change the way they think is the wrong thing to do. The woman engaging with the man as a result of the harassment is rewarding the harassment, and therefore engaging elevates the man in the eyes of the assholes he is bent on impressing.

Third, men who harass women who are in some way dependent on them: the boss, etc. Those men are also doing it to express dominance, and they can do you real damage. They know you. They see you every day. They know your situation. And you are STILL nothing more to them than a tool to fix their lack of self esteem. In those instances, the only thing to do is to bring it up the chain to HR or whatever. The woman they are harassing is not going to suddenly make them see women as human.

But you do bring up an interesting point. This is a MEN'S problem. MEN can change the way other men think about these situations. Women cannot. SO, as an ally, I appreciate what you do. I just think you should know that it doesn't work when you are the woman being harassed.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. I worked for two loud and crude lawyers 15+ years ago. They insulted their

clients, other attorneys, each other, their wives, . . . and me.

One day, my work wasn't perfect, and my boss berated me, ending with "What's the matter with you? You got your head up your ass?"

I thought, "You're going to pay for that."

Maybe 30 minutes later, Boss calls for me to come into his office. I don't move. I keep typing with the dictaphone. He tries again. Same result. He gets up and is in the door frame and calls me again. Same result. He's finally by my side, and taps me on the shoulder. I look up, try to look surprised. I innocently ask, "Did you want me for something?" He responds, "Yeah, I've been calling for you for the past 10 minutes."

Pause.

I look at him, smile sweetly, and say "I'm sorry . . . . I guess I didn't hear you . . . . because my head was too far up my ass!"

He never spoke to me that way again.