My father frustrates and confuses me.

[white_wolf]

So my father is a very strange person. He believes that everyone should be equal before the law and if we discriminant on the basis of race we have no country and all should be treated equal and yet he thinks that whites are superior to black people.

He went to jail over a black persons right to sit on the front of a bus and believes that before the law all should be equal. He also thinks that the unbalance of wealth in this country is a terrible thing and that wealth should be more be fairly distributed among the people and no one should be homeless while there is so much wealth here. He thinks the fact that only the wealthy can hold office and be president is a bad thing and that the most qualified people are among the working class.

He despises George Bush and hates the Patriot Act. He thinks that if you can't afford to pay for healthcare it should be provided by the government free of charge.

He despises Rush Limbaugh and views him as a danger to the country and had described him as a modern day Joseph Gorblells.

He has expressed at times admiration for the Swedish system of government and thinks it would be good to implement that in the U.S.A. He has at times describle himself as a Social-Democrat

So I ask, DU why should I deal with my father, who I both admire and strongly disagree with?

[murielm99]

1. Sometimes it is important to stand by your family.

It could be worse. He could be a teabagger. He could be born again, and spending every waking moment trying to convert you to his brand of Christianity.

Spend time with him if you can and overlook the contradictions. If you cut him out of your life, you will feel terrible after he dies. Make the best of things while you can.

[provis99]

2. well, they are family.

One of my cousins is a self-proclaimed socialist, but he also admires Hitler, defending him as just having gone "a little too far".

I try to keep his good points in mind.

[ingac70]

3. He can think whatever he wants.....

so long as he doesn't act on those beliefs like a douchebag and try to oppress or harrass anyone he thinks he's better than then I wouldn't worry about it.

[Mimosa]

4. What's wrong with your father's views?

What do you disagree with? Is this a joke OP?

BTW, your relationship with family mebers shouldn't be based on political POVs.

[white_wolf]

6. and yet he thinks that whites are superior.

That is really my biggest problem, that he things whites are superior to black people, even if he thinks they should all be equal before the law. I felt I should clarify he thinks that about black people, because he does not feel that way about Asians or really any other race. He even thinks other races are just as good as whites he just thinks that black people as a whole are lazy. That is my biggest problem, even though the thinks all are equal before the law, I can't can't over that one fact, that he thinks white are superior. He's even said that there are plenty of individual black people who are successful and are likely smarter than him.

[housewolf]

13. Delete - wrong place

[bitchkitty]

7. Did you read the part where he said his dad thinks

that white people are superior?

[Mimosa]

10. No. The sentences were all so tightly stacked.

I was gleaning. I read this sentence but didn't read the other:

"He went to jail over a black persons right to sit on the front of a bus and believes that before the law all should be equal"


Well, the OP author can't change an older person's mind. So as long as dear old dad doesn't rant racist stuff to a point where it's unbearable, why not allow him to believe whatever he chooses? Nobody can change the opinions of another by force, and arguing with one's own parent can be ugly and distressing to parent and kid.

The old man won't be with you forever, so enjoy what's good about him and ignore the rest.

[blueamy66]

22. I missed it too Mimosa.

I agree 100% with your post....especially the part about the Dad not being here forever and to focus what is good about him.

My Dad was a little bit of a bigot....but he's gone now and I wish I could hug him again...despite his very few flaws. :-)

[LeftishBrit]

5. So what do you disagree with?

[LeftishBrit]

30. OK- I now see. I had missed the important sentence embedded in the good things. Sorry (nt)

[provis99]

8. racism's a strange and sad thing.

My own father was anti-racist, despite having grown up in segregated Mississipp, with two parents that were avowed racists. Heck, my grandmother defines white as White Anglo-Saxon Protestant; all those Italians, Irish, and whatever else don't count. I still get along splendidly with grandma, but don't discuss racial issues with her.

[immoderate]

9. Sounds like a classic liberal.

I'm kidding.

It's possible that he feels that way. Feelings are not rational. Can't fault his actions though, and that's what counts. The critical question, I guess, is if he thinks every white person is superior. That would be a lack of ability to discriminate, as it were.

--imm

[white_wolf]

11. That is the thing that I can't figure out.

He will freely admit that some black people are better than white people and that under the legal system all must be treated equal before the law and as I said he went to jail in a civil rights protest before MLK even got started, it just confuses me to no end.

[Blecht]

12. If you want anybody to read your post, do something like this:

OP in legible form:

So my father is a very strange person. He believes that everyone should be equal before the law and if we discriminant on the basis of race we have no country and all should be treated equal and yet he thinks that whites are superior to black people.

He went to jail over a black persons right to sit on the front of a bus and believes that before the law all should be equal. He also thinks that the unbalance of wealth in this country is a terrible thing and that wealth should be more be fairly distributed among the people and no one should be homeless while there is so much wealth here. He thinks the fact that only the wealthy can hold office and be president is a bad thing and that the most qualified people are among the working class.

He despises George Bush and hates the Patriot Act. He thinks that if you can't afford to pay for healthcare it should be provided by the government free of charge.

He despises Rush Limbaugh and views him as a danger to the country and had described him as a modern day Joseph Gorblells.

He has expressed at times admiration for the Swedish system of government and thinks it would be good to implement that in the U.S.A. He has at times describle himself as a Social-Democrat

So I ask, DU why should I deal with my father, who I both admire and strongly disagree with?

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. It would be interesting to know

why your father thinks whites are superior. Is it because of differing cultural and ethnic values? Is it because of a specific incident(s) in his past? Has that been influenced by his parents, other family, social or employment relationships?

[white_wolf]

17. I've asked him this question before.

He always answers with the same question me: Eric, find me a single great African nation on the earth today.

[Motown_Johnny]

24. answer: Dad, find me one African nation not colonized and exploited by Europeans

[salin]

33. add to that the ills that he describes and stands against got exponentially greater

due to the colonization period. That many of the forces he believes need to be strongly taken on are the same forces that greatly contribute to the deep dysfunction in the rule of many African nations. You can even make that point without having to be confrontational. If he reads fiction - introduce him to Richard North Patterson through his book Eclipse. A loosely fictionalized version of Nigeria and Ken Saro-Wiwa. Hard to get through the book and not gain an understanding that colonization did not end - and how it's modern forms have contributed to the instability of many African nations. If he doesn't read - get the audio book - the story is so powerful that it is hard not to get hooked.

Getting rid of that explanation per the superiority of whites - might open the door for more self-reflective discussions.

[housewolf]

15. How old is your father?

My hunch is that he grew up in a much different era than you did, when that kind of belief was pretty prevalent. Where did he grow up?

It's a tribute to your dad that he believes in equal justice for all. But some of those old, now out-dated thoughts/beliefs about race were pretty well ingrained into generations past, and have a long history in the US.

I think you need to take it as one of your dad's idiosyncrasies, and understand that if this was something that was easy for him to change, he probably would have. I suggest that you try to understand where such a belief comes from, and forgive him for it.

[white_wolf]

16. My father is in his early 70s.

Which is why I try to be understanding, because I know that he was raised in a time very different from my own, but it is still hard.

[Mimosa]

21. Your dad is entitled to his personal opinion, White Wolf

I do not think this should come between you and your father, White Wolf. You described a man who does the right things for the right reasons.

You said he believes black people in general are inferior. But you also said that your father believes in treating all people fairly. Your dad is not in a position where his belief about the inferiority of blacks can cause anybody any harm. He doesn't go around belittling people, he's not in a position to cause harm to anybody.

I'm supposing your father's opinion bothers you so much you needed to get it off your chest and blow off steam. Better you do it here than argue with him, and convey that unless he changes his 'bad thought', he is a bad person, unacceptable to you. If the man actually did anything which would cause harm to black people -if he was a judge on the bench or a supervisor in a workplace- maybe his opinion would translate into discrimination.

My Spanish/Native American grandmother who supported her widowed mother and brotherss and sisters during the Great Depression had that exact same opinion. (And oddly had a quirky bias against 'Chinamen' which was apparently common in the Old SouthWest *LOL*) People said she always worked the job of two men, or worked like a mule. She was a steward (now called manager) and a chef for prestigious hotel restaurants in a time when women didn't do that kind of job because they weren't considered to have the stamina to work the 16 hour days. But she did, and later owned a couple of restaurants.

Despite my grandmother's opinion (exactly like your father's) she hired black employees at the same wages she paid for white employees who worked as sous chefs, line cooks and other commercial kitchen jobs. In my youngest years we spent a lot of time 'in back of the house.' My grandmother treated everybody well and her typical Southern opinion never appeared to affect her kind treatment of all employees. Back in the mid to late 1950s she recognised the talent of a Korean war veteran named Paul whom she'd hired. She mentored him and taught him ice carving and many restaurant skills which led to him becoming a famous chef about whom I read 25 years later in newspaper features! I always felt happy when I saw Paul's photo in the newspaper, knowing how closely he and grandma had been.

We usually had a housekeeper because my grandmother worked long hard hours. No employee of Grandma's was ever treated rudely or paid less than they earned. I was quite a sensitive observer. My mother was quite a radical for the late 50s in ATL and was a member of the NAACP.

My grandmother was a rare person who didn't have it in her to be unkind to anybody. She would get mad at injustice, just as you described your dad. She thought Lester Maddox (then a restaurant owner who later became governor of GA) was a ridiculous man for fighting the public accommodations legislation of the 1960s. She scoffed at the racist idea of keeping blacks from being customers at restaurants, remarking to one and all that if blacks were good enough to be working in the restaurant kitchens preparing the foods whites enjoyed, they were certainly good enough to be able to eat in the dining establishments.

So, White Wolf, relax, please. There's no point in judging your dad if he's not hurting anybody. Enjoy your dad for all his good points. You have no idea how long you'll have him with you.

[enough]

18. Has he always believed this? I'm asking because my very active lefty parents became strangely

bigoted in their old age. I never could figure out why, and it was very painful to watch.

[Mimosa]

23. Neural synapses in the brain start dying when we are in our 40s I think...

and neural synapses don't regenerate. My med prof buddy told me something like that. Back in the 1980s I used to visit and volunteer at a nursing home, and the N word was thrown about a lot by both black and white patients.

When neural synapses are deteriorated thoughts and feelings get all mixed up. People will laugh and cry inappropriately and become anxious and confused.

I found an article which gives some understandable info. I need to get off my bottom and go for walks! The article says walking can help people retain mental health!

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/hmm/01spring/brain.html

[WVRICK13]

19. Ethnocentrism Explains His

Whites are better thinking. Like rooting for you home team. I don't think he is a bigot but he could use more direct exposure and interaction with other races and ethnicities.

[cali]

20. How old is your dad?

[bluestate10]

25. Ask him to explain why he thinks whites are superior. You should get

a lot of buzz words.

[Mimosa]

27. Right. Pick on a 70 year old man. Make him 'explain'.

BlueNorthwest, I understand what you mean. It's better when people think whatever they please -they will anyway- but do the right thing.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Lots of people here on DU speak of 'Pragmatism' these days

In that philosophy, belief and other invisible things are not of consequence, the only proof of belief is action. So your father's actions are good. Take on the other hand, the President, who says that he thinks gay people should never have the right to marry, because of his belief. His belief is shown in actions, he openly opposes our rights and says that God agrees with him.
I'd much rather Obama secretly detest us and act like an evolved person rather than use the callous language that he does, tip toe around it, and end up at 'I am against equal rights for them'. Better he should harbor prejudice and live tolerance than to pretend tolerance and live prejudice.

[MrScorpio]

28. You can pick your friends, you can pick tomatoes, you can even pick your own nose....

But you can't pick your family. Deal with it.

[white_wolf]

29. Thanks for all the great responses.

You all are right, I should probably just let it go and focus on his good qualities. He could be a lot worse, at least he isn't a tea-bagger. One poster mentioned Ethnocentrism as part of the reason and I think that has a lot to do with it. People naturally root for the "home team." This thread was an outlet for me to vent, because I don't want to start another argument with my dad, so thanks for hearing me out.

[PassingFair]

31. Marry a black person. Produce a mixed-race baby.

Defy your father to tell you that he still
thinks "whites are superior to black people".

If he still insists on being a huge bigot,
tell him to *uck off.

But he probably WON'T.

[Kip Humphrey]

32. My grandmother was very much like your dad... and I am forever grateful

to have had the privilege of learning from her wisdom at her knee. I learned I could overlook her 'racism' because of her overall compassion and her love for the black folks she grew up with (in Missouri). I learned that those times in which she grew up were a world apart from my experience, especially with regards to race. By providing her a modicum of forgiveness, I have gained the world and can honestly say I would not be nearly the person I am today without her. So, my advise is for you to overlook the foibles and learn what you can from your dad.