Reflections on re-connecting with an old friend... a conservative.

[moriah]

I am one of those people who value friendship, and value mentorship especially. Many of the teens in my high school came from unhappy home situations. I was one of them, and I still remember the adults outside of my family who I looked up to and saw as a person I could turn to if I really needed advice at that time.

One of those people started a Live Action Roleplaying (LARP) game on Friday nights in our town, and encouraged both teens and adults to play the game. Sure, it might have been "eeeeeevil Satanic roleplaying" but it gave a lot of kids a supervised place to hang out on Friday nights where the strongest thing to drink was the coffee at the Barnes and Noble nearby or at Denny's after the game officially ended. We'd never really talked politics at that time. Later on after I "grew up" officially we still remained in contact, and through several mailing lists had spirited debate. At that time I learned he was definitely more conservative than I am.

After a dear mutual friend passed away recently, we added each other as "Facebook friends". And he joined in debates on my page, enjoying speaking with a few other conservatives who I also knew from a similar time in my life. I enjoy friendly, polite, civil discussions with people who disagree with me because I feel it's the only way to examine your ideas constructively. Preaching to the choir is intellectual masturbation -- satisfying and can help you in learning to share your ideas with others later, but when someone offers an opposing viewpoint and explains why they believe it you might change your own -- or have your own opinion reinforced. (Fortunately posting here at DU is far from preaching to the choir... we all are united in some ways, but vastly different in others as discussions here have shown.)

And after about two months, he ended up defriending me. We had several debates and even hit the abortion hot button -- leading me to post a rant here when I just couldn't take it anymore and withdrew from the conversation because I didn't want to hurt a friendship over it. But it was when I compared the excessive curiosity regarding the fruit of Sarah Palin's womb with the excessive curiosity about President Obama's birth, and said what I thought of both (that the people who harped on both were idiots and -ist in one way or another and I thought both sides should disclaim the conspiracy theories... but you all knew that back in 2008 when I ranted about it.) I learned he was a birther. And a 100+ comment thread ensued. When a friend jumped in the debate, this guy brought personalities into the picture (asking who he was to have such an opinion, which in my opinion is the number one downfall in online arguments -- ad hominem is generally in bad taste even if it is correct). I tried to step in and say "Play nice" but they wouldn't. The guy defriended me as a way of keeping himself from responding any longer after repeated requests to both parties to end it.

I'm saddened, but I honestly think this might be better for long-term preservation of the friendship. He was a good person and there for me during a part of my life where I needed good people. I don't want politics to get in the way of that. I probably should have added him to my "NoPolitics" list when I saw things getting volatile. But I'd always enjoyed discussion with him in the past.

As the election season heats up and things are being discussed more, have any of you experienced similar dilemmas in dealing with people who you care about who happen to be conservative? Do you have any ideas for how to preserve friendships through elections aside from following the "polite company" rules -- as in, don't discuss it?

[valerief]

1. Remember that old saying to never discuss sex, politics, or religion in social situations?

Well, times have changed. We can discuss sex now. The other two are still verboten in Backward America, Land of the Concrete Thinkers.

[KansDem]

2. Don't forget "barbeque"

In KC we don't discuss barbeque.

Sex, politics, religion, and barbeque are all verboten in KC.

[moriah]

3. I'd always heard it as "not in polite company".

And "sex" at least was not something my grandmother, one of the people who has told me that multiple times, wouldn't have mentioned in any situation she could have avoided it. ;)

[nebenaube]

5. I think that's exactly how we ended up in this mess...

by not talking about those things.

[Ron Green]

4. My experience is that I cannot be friends with a conservative.

The reason for this is that a conservative, no matter how civil or reasoned in his approach, must believe that some groups of people are more deserving than other groups of people, and that the "free market" will magically deliver the right results for the right people.

This notion is so far removed from the way I understand the world that a "friendship," even a Facebook one, consists only of superficial things.

[Populist_Prole]

6. Unfortunately, I just avoid contact.

It's hard avoiding political talk with someone who is hellbent on making it political, so I've just let old friendships sort of wither. for me to really say what I want to say ( that is, what needs to be said ) would end the friendship in a sudden sordid way. I just took the easy way out.

It's one thing to disagree on ( for me, mainly economic issues ) and think the my opponent is a selfish jerk, but at least he has a valid reason for his view ( however distasteful ) The "birther" issue on the other hand, is another thing. As soon as ANYbody spouts off as being one, that person gets immediately placed into the kook category.

[moriah]

7. I was really shocked.

I spent quite a bit of time going over my response in my head. After the initial "You're a birther?" To which he replied he did not feel Obama had proven things.

I asked him "What would you consider sufficient proof aside from going back in time and witnessing the birth yourself? There are people who believe the Lunar Laser Ranging experiments were not sufficient proof that we landed on the moon." He is on the "long-form birth certificate" bandwagon, wanting a doctor's siggy, and supports the attempt in Arizona to require it. All I could really say was "Okay, so my own birth certificate, that I used to get married and apply for a passport, wouldn't be sufficient to run for President in your view. Thanks, that's what I needed to know."

That was being as gentle as I could and I didn't engage further on the subject.

Because I really, really thought he was smarter than that.

[closeupready]

8. Mirrors my experience in many ways with an old female friend of mine.

I'd first met her in kindergarten, and being from a small town, I knew her older brother, too (and she knew a few members of my family, etc.) - I mean, everyone basically went through the same school system (though of course grammar schools were much more neighborhoody, and the junior and senior high schools were for the whole town).

We stayed good friends for all those years, and had a few phone calls after graduation, then even later, we'd exchange emails. She went into the military and I went to college. She went to college, too, eventually, and graduated. I moved East, was openly gay (though I never really told her that), and she moved South, married and had kids.

Well, during the Bush/Kerry elections, it became clear to me that she was deeply conservative and religious Christian fundamentalist, which disappointed me. It was a difficult decision, but I eventually changed email accounts and I no longer really read her emails.

She has had an inspiring life, and I have lots of respect for her, but ... You know, there are so many people from back home that I can't relate to anymore. I don't wish bad on anyone, but I've never been to a class reunion, and I'm not sure how enthusiastic I would be to do so. Some of my classmates now have died, some who meant something to me. I wish I didn't feel that way, but I feel that I had a hard childhood, esp. in terms of being socially isolated.

I will say that I do sometimes get word from mutual acquaintances that so-and-so said hi, or 'thanks for the memories, for listening, thank you for being a friend when I needed it', so-and-so wishes you well, here's a picture of them and their children. :cry:

But anyway, I wish I could offer advice, but obviously, I don't have much to offer you. :( Just know that your friends will also understand - like you do - over time why the two of you needed to part ways. That could eventually lead to a rebirth of the relationship. :)

Cheers. :)

[izquierdista]

9. If the relationship does have a rebirth....

...be sure you get the long form certificate for it, not just the short one.