President's Speech On Our Involvement In Libya...

[WillyT]

Just hashing out your feelings...,

[whatchamacallit]

1. I'm thankful I missed it, my loathing meter is already in the red (nt)

[DFab420]

3. Im sure that didn't stop you from voting in the neg. though.

[whatchamacallit]

5. I didn't vote. (nt)

[readmoreoften]

34. +1

[doc03]

2. Although I was dead set against our involvement in Libya

Obama convinced me it was the right thing to do. I think it will turn out to be success in that Gaddafi will be taken out of power real soon.

[elleng]

7. ...

:thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

4. No Way

[Yo_Mama]

6. It's spelled "Libya" n/t

[WillyT]

10. Well Hell... My SpellCheck Didn't Catch It...

So sue me...

:evilgrin:

I think I used my SpellCheck...

:shrug:

[Yo_Mama]

15. It doesn't matter - we knew what was meant!!!

I guess I'm just responding to stress by being an ass. I'll work on it.

The speech upset me because I didn't see any endpoint and our "partners" have been running away from the thing. I'm willing to concede noble motives but what matters is success.

Will we be in there for ten years?

[elocs]

19. I don't think Spell Check works in the subject line. Mine doesn't.

It sure does help to save me in the message section though.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. I had visions of Haliburton, KBR, Carlyle Group all making lists of how much money they will make

"re-building" Libya and running the oil.
I had visions of "let's make a deal" with Gaddafi, when the Pres.stopped short of saying anything beyond
"he must go".
I had visions of throwing up when he spoke of how we have "left Iraq".As if we do not have 150,000 troops still there.

He may have talked about our "short involvement" because we were not going to spend money in another war, but I know from experience that somebody is going to make LOT of money out of Libya, and it won't be the US taxpayer.

[DFab420]

11. 150,000?????!?!?!

I'm calling bullshit on that number


there are 18 combat brigades, which would bring the count of US Troops to roughly 50,000.

Not out entirely sure, but defiantly not 150,000

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. I checked, there seems to be concensus of your number of troops.

Lots more contractors still there, not being counted in the numbers.

[sabrina 1]

23. 50, 000 troops and a whole army of mercenaries.

More mercenaries there now than regular troops. We are an empire and we have a private army of mercenaries to take care of 'interests'.

[sad sally]

32. gulp! ya' think that's where the money might be going?

To bad people, who do bad things 'cause we pay them to do bad stuff, but pretend it's not really the US but somebody else? :sarcasm:

[H2O Man]

9. Other.

Disturbing on numerous levels.

[Dj13Francis]

12. This is just F'ed.

I don't agree that this is a wise use of our resources, or that it will do us any good at all in the long run. No good will come of this. This is as mistaken and ill-conceived as nearly every other conflict we've committed troops to in the past 60 years. This will not help deflect hatred of America in the arab world. In fact, it only will encourage it. Violence only begets further violence. We are on the wrong path. I really wish Obama deserved his peace prize. He does not.

[Siouxmealso]

13. Sounded familiar

That could have been a George Bush speech where global search and replace had been used to replace "Iraq" and "Saddam" with "Libya" and "Qadaffi."

[Cleita]

14. My only aha moment is the statement about Secretary

Clinton having a future meeting with a coalition of nations and "representatives of the Libyans." My concern is whom these Libyans are whom we may be setting up as our new puppet government in Libya. What are their ties to the oil industry? I'm surprised that neither Lawrence or Rachel had any flags being raised in their minds with this statement.

[sabrina 1]

24. One of them is a guy who has been living here for over 20 years.

Odd how someone like that could just fly over and join the 'revolutionaries' and suddenly have them put him in charge of the 'new' country's oil revenues! Check it out:

Rebels say Qatar ready to market east Libyan oil

Tarhouni, a U.S.-based academic and exile opposition figure, was designated last week by the Benghazi-based national council to steer its financial and oil policy.

He said the rebel leadership had set up an escrow account monitored by auditors that would be used to receive revenue from oil sales.

The rebels also plan to take out loans backed by Libya's sovereign wealth fund, he said.

"We would keep the fund frozen until the entire country is liberated," Tarhouni said. "Instead, what we will do is take loans backed by the sovereign fund."

Ali Tarhouni, what do we know about this suddenly very influential 'rebel' who appears to not have been in Libya for decades, yet was totally trusted by the revolutionaries. Reminds me of Chalabi for some reason.

[Cleita]

26. Wow! I knew we had a friendly Libyan already lined up.

It's awful to be so cynical but I can't help it. I'm so sick of our foreign policy. I really think WE need a revolution to get real change.

[suffragette]

29. Giving me that echo as well.

Hmmm.

[suffragette]

30. Now I feel unsure again

And that's why I haven't posted about this much.
I feel torn.

Not sounding so much like Chalabi in these.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014592498_tarhouni25m.html

http://www.libya-watanona.com/news/nclo/nc24036a.htm

[sabrina 1]

33. Interesting, thank you for the links.

I should probably have mentioned other ex-pat Iraqis, as Chalabi airc, was not an Iraqi. There were similar organizations affiliated with Iraq that became prominent in the run-up to the war.

This bothers me a bit:

McDermott said he knows Tarhouni but didn't realize just how deeply involved he is in Libyan politics.

I wonder how he knew him? I think if I had known someone who was a Libyan ex-pat I would have had a million questions to ask him, considering how often over the past number of years Libya has been in the news.

Also, since I followed this from the beginning my impression was that the protests in the beginning were spontaneous, inspired by the Egyptian and Tunisian uprisings, not organized in any way before that. In fact that was one of the criticisms of the Libyan movement.

Still, he is saying there was an organized opposition. Hard to believe that anyone opposing Qaddafi during the past several years when he was a U.S. ally and partner in the War on Terror, could escape the scrutiny of the Intelligence community. Qaddafi was fighting the 'extremists' in Eastern Libya in partnership with the U.S. in their WOT.

Hard to know what to think. But it still reminds me of Iraq. We supported Saddam Hussein for so long also, then suddenly he was the enemy and we found all these ex-pat organizations suddenly who were used as PR for the Iraq War.

This could be different. I guess we are all a lot more suspicious these days than we used to be. I'd like to more about him I guess. On the surface he sounds like one of the good guys, but so did some of the Iraqi ex-pats.

Anyhow, thanks for the links, the more we know the easier it is to sort things out :-)

[suffragette]

37. This is definitely just scratching the surface

since I only did a quick search on the name using earlier dates on Google, noticed the email and another quick search on that.

Seattle's not as large as other cities so once you get in certain circles you meet people. I've known at least two people who know Eddie Vedder. Haven't met him myself yet , though - darn it.
Did meet Bill Gates, Sr once. I would doubt he remembers that.

It echoes of Iraq for me as well. And I keep thinking how the rationale used never seems to be applied in situations like Darfur.
Also, I mistrust anything Tony Blair's involved with and he's doing PR and more as the envoy for the Quartet on this.
I distrust this in my bones.

But then I search and find results like this and I question again.

Like I said, it's the reason I haven't posted as much on this.

[sabrina 1]

39. I know what you mean. I was very supportive and still am

of the protesters and their goal of having a free democratic country as they stated in the beginning.

And I can easily imagine that this man is a sincere and good person who wants to see his country free from oppression. I have friends from other troubled parts of the world who want the same things for their countries.

It isn't so much the Libyans, even those who are ex-pats that I am concerned about. Assuming they ARE legitimate, in a way that is what would make it worse if they are just being used by powerful opportunists. Because I fear for their future, that their revolution may be being used as an excuse to turn their country into an occupied zone, like Iraq. On the pretext that they 'care' of course.

Anyone who cares about the revolutionaries has to be concerned about who their 'saviors' are.

Does anyone think that all those bombs falling on their country right now are not killing people? Destroying the country's infrastructure?

I remember several tweets from Libyans I was following demanding that there be no damage to their infrastructure.

And today, reading some opinions from that part of the world rather than the WEstern media, I learned that many of the people who were on the fence in Libya, are now against the revolution and are turning their support towards Qaddafi as they do not trust the Western powers and do not want to live like the people of Iraq.

[suffragette]

40. I'm going to start calling you Kreskin

because you just summed up some of the thoughts I've been having.

Now stop reading my mind, you empath you ;-)

[sabrina 1]

41. Lol, well, I feel the same about you!

[Name removed]

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[Shagbark Hickory]

18. I'm most bothered by the whole issue of cost and money. He mentioned seizing 33bln from qaddafi.

Some of that better go towards our expenses but I'm sure it won't.

[bhikkhu]

36. "Seized assets" are like stolen property - they go to the victims

In this case if it is determined that they are rightfully the property of Libya rather than the earned income of some individual, they will go to the legitimate government of Libya. If it goes as in other cases, once things are resolved in Tripoli, or if Gadhafi is convicted by the ICC, then the monies will be repatriated to Libya once a stable government forms.

As cynical as one might be, its not "up for grabs" or subject to arbitrary transfer by any means. To imagine we bombed Libya or turned against Gadhafi is far-fetched, as we have little financial interest there and little to gain.

[Shagbark Hickory]

42. Well thats just swell. I guess our grandkids' grandkids get to foot the bill.

As the thugs would say.

[Baclava]

43. The Arab League should be paying us as hired guns

But they won't

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. All the European countries should be paying us for these services.

It's their oil.

[Baclava]

21. Perpetual war on a 'case-by-case' FEEL GOOD strategy

WTF is that?

Pretty speech on why we're there - but we already knew that. Now what?

What is the exit strategy, how do you define success so can we can GET THE FUCK OUT?

Months not years? More confusion.

[Moondog]

22. I've seen this movie before. Deja vu all over again.

[CelticThunder]

25. This isn't what I voted for when I voted for you, Mr. President.

[Little Star]

27. Other for the same reasons as post #9.

[lindalou65]

28. Libya

I liked Obama's speech but then I believe he did the right thing while apparently some of you do not. Good job Obama!

[WillyT]

31. Kick !!!

:kick:

[fried eggs]

35. I went from neutral to understanding

he laid it all out perfectly in my humble opinion.

[deacon]

38. I support the President on this - but I want him to focus on the war on the middle class as much as

he focused on this.