I just heard that a good friend committed suicide

[Ohio Joe]

I worked with him for over ten years at Nationwide. He had been unemployed for almost three years now, a wife and kids to support. Lots of worry that they might become homeless... That he would not be able to send his kids to college... All the rising debt... So he just laid down in front of a train... Fucked up.

He was a really great guy, I really loved him. heh, I have a lot of good memories of him, I'm going to miss him.

RIP Todd.

[wtmusic]

1. So sorry Joe.

That's very fucked up.

"If only I had..."

Been there. :(

[Ordy116]

2. Sorry to hear that

My girlfriend's uncle committed suicide a few years ago. It practically destroyed the family. Nobody really saw it coming. He was very close to everyone, so it hit that much harder.

[alsame]

3. Sorry for your loss

:hug:

[SDuderstadt]

4. That sucks...

O.J.

I wish I had some soothing words to comfort you. I don't.

[EFerrari]

5. Sorry for your loss, Joe.

[Tippy]

6. Life is not fair...my sympathy to you and his family

[xchrom]

7. very difficult. very sorry for you and his family. nt

[MuseRider]

8. (((hugs)))

I am so sorry for you and his family. RIP Todd

[Maru Kitteh]

9. Damn, damn, DAMN! I'm sorry for your loss, we NEEED much greater mental health availability

in this country!

I mean for God's sake! This is certainly not going to help his wife, or get his kids through college either.

Just sad as hell.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yellerpup]

10. Ah, damn. I'm so sorry for you and all those who loved him.

There is not enough hope going around these days. :cry:

[LAGC]

11. Suicide is so selfish.

The people who commit it don't realize how much hurt and pain they cause to the survivors: friends and loved ones.

While prolonged unemployment can definitely eat at you after awhile, its not the end of the world.

Things eventually get better if you just keep trying.

I know most of those who have found jobs after losing a good paying job, often are finding themselves making far less than they used to. Eventually enough people are going to lose their homes and not be able to make ends meet, that they will DEMAND change.

I, for one, would rather be alive when we see this happen. America will only completely go to shit if we let it. Maybe we have to hit rock bottom before we build ourselves back up from the ashes.

[Not Me]

14. People who commit suicide are so deeply consumed by the pain

that they can't think about 'how selfish' the act may be considered.

My condolences to his family and friends.

[whathehell]

43. Your are correct.

People who are judgmental about suicide are most likely shallow mofos who have

never experienced an episode of real depression.:eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. So wrong, on so many points.

Suicidal people DO realize it will hurt the survivors - and most go to great lengths to mitigate that hurt, such as trying to make it look like an accident (a great many succeed at this and are not reported as suicides) so as to not deny the survivors insurance; or leave detailed suicide notes trying to absolve their loved ones of the blame.

For a great many people, particularly those who have little social support, prolonged unemployment IS the end of the world.

Things don't always get better - sometimes they just continue getting worse.

It's not just losing income upon getting a new job - it is working a new job, or maybe two, and still losing your house anyway due to the accumulated debts of the prolonged unemployment.

It's easy to say "they're selfish" when you are not wearing their shoes.

[Mad_Dem_X]

38. +1

[Lorien]

40. Amen. nt

[Ghost in the Machine]

55. "It's easy to say "they're selfish" when you are not wearing their shoes."

Tell that to the train conductor that he laid down in front of.. when you're done, maybe you can tell my cousin, who is tormented by nightmares because he's had 3 occasions of people jumping in front of the train he was driving...

I suffer from major depression, and I can't even treat it. The only time I have ever thought about killing myself was while I was on anti-depressants, so I can't take them. For me, death isn't an option or a way out. I joke with people and tell them "the only reason I haven't haven't killed myself is because I wanna hang around and see what the fuck is gonna happen next, I'm gonna keep riding this rollercoaster all the way to the end, I ain't jumping off early".

[Maru Kitteh]

26. That is blaming the victim for a terrible shortfall in our healthcare system, imo.

Life throws all kinds of crushing events at us. No life (job or no job) will be free from it. At those times, some of us need professional help - not blame and scold.

[Dappleganger]

30. No, they don't realize the hurt and pain they cause because they are sick.

Depression is like someone pulled a bag over your head and threw you into a dark hole, and you have no way out except to rely on the help of others--that's if help is even offered. You can't make good decisions because the depression has taken over completely and your judgement is not based in the reality of your situation.

Mental disease is a real disease and needs to be treated as such. The OP's friend likely had struggled with it for a long time and due to his unemployment (and probably lack of medical care/insurance) it went undetected and untreated. Would you blame the man if he had a heart attack and died due to the stress? Probably not--but what happened is similar to that. Just because it happens to be a chemical imbalance gone wrong doesn't mean he was a selfish person.

I know this--those who think it's all about the family and friends are being selfish, too. I have multiple family members who took their lives (including my grandfather and great-grandfather), as well as a very close friend who took her life in my early 20's. It's devastating and you really never get over it, just learn to live with it better. At first there is shock, than there are years of anger (and feeling they took "the easy way out"). Then one day I had the misfortune of being diagnosed w/depression myself and it dawned on me that there was no way my friend could have just "snapped out of it". She was not being selfish or trying to run away. She should have been hospitalized by her family members but they were too focused on telling her to snap out of it than what kind of help she really needed. It wasn't her fault--it finally became clear to me and now I am no longer angry with her.

[get the red out]

31. Thank you!

The old "selfish" knee-jerk reaction to suicide is like saying someone who died of cancer or heart disease was selfish. Depression is an illness and dying of depression is what suicide is.

[Lorien]

42. Well said Doppleganger

I've struggled with severe depression most of my life; it a side effect of another medical condition that I can't afford adequate treatment for. People like your friend may have asked for help from State agencies as well and found nothing. She may have exhausted every possibility before giving up. Unless a depressed person has some very extraordinary friends or family members who take them seriously and are willing to help, they never will get help. You can't even sign up to be a guinea pig for big pharma if you have any other medical conditions that could effect their test outcomes...and being a CNS guinea pig is about the ONLY way a non wealthy person can get "help" for depression these days.

[JitterbugPerfume]

33. my brother in law suffered for years

before he finally ended it all. He loved my sister and his kids , and in his tortured mind he thought they would be better off without him. Do not be so quick to judge .

[ejpoeta]

34. while i agree it is a selfish act, it is borne of severe pain and darkness that is worse than death.

also, a person who is in a state that would lead them to such an act feel that others would be better off without them and that they are doing others a favor. I know this because I have been there at that point. IT is such a painful place to be. A place that seems to have no way out. Of course these things are temporary. a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If you can get past it then you can see that. I did with the help of my family and a hospital. But I also had been told I was just not trying hard enough. That if I acted happy I would be happy. And that if I would just try harder and 'snap out of it' then I would be fine. Some say this is not a mental health issue, but in many ways it is. This man was depressed. He was suffering and this was the only way he saw to get out of that. Were we not a society that tells men in particular that they are showing weakness. a society that makes it hard for someone to try to get help. We have seen how the unemployed are blamed for their own situation. They are lazy and just not trying hard enough. At some point you will believe that it is something about you even though there may be several applicants for every job.

I imagine we will see a lot more of this kind of thing if things don't start improving soon. There is a certain feeling of helplessness when we find ourselves in this situation. And everything we have worked our whole lives for is gone. This 'american dream' that we've been sold. the whole concept that we've been sold about keeping up with the joneses. we have to rethink that.

yes, when enough people are struggling to feed their kids that is when you are going to see people start demanding things. Until then you are going to keep seeing people blame the unemployed for their situation, and then see people in that situation, as the help for them and their families disappear, they will either break under the pressure or start fighting back.

[Mad_Dem_X]

36. I must respectfully disagree.

When you are in a place of such pain and darkness, the only thing you want is for it to stop. Sometimes, suicide feels like the only way out. My cousin chose that way, he was not a selfish person. I was angry at him, yes, for a moment, but then I just felt sorry for all the pain and heartache he had been going through.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. If my husband had been thinking of me or our children, I would be washing his socks

right now. I would still live in Michigan. My son would still be the sweet, even tempered boy we all laughed over the antics of.

He was not thinking of us. He is not here. There are no socks to wash.

[Alameda]

47. That is a mean statement.

People who commit suicide are so consumed with pain they can't think, they are out of their mind in agony and just want relief.

[bluestate10]

49. I agree with your sentiment, but disagree that the statement was mean.

All of us live through disappointments and deal with depression and setbacks. I have never suffered from clinical depression, so take my insight on it for what that insight is worth. But I am tough minded and optimistic, with those traits, I have been able to turn defeats into victories and have gained a good life. Maybe the person that posted is in that mode and can't envision suicide because that act equates to giving in.

[undeterred]

48. Get some empathy.

[polichick]

12. So sorry - what a sad story.

[Yo_Mama]

13. I'm sorry n/t

[hlthe2b]

15. Oh, heavens... I know he left a lot of pain.... for you and his family

The horrendous way in which he died shows how intense his own pain. I think, from your post that you really understand that, no matter how hard it might be. I am glad that you can call up your good memories.

I'm sorry for you and all he left behind and hope that they might work through their pain, loss and any understandable anger. I'm also very very sorry for all who are dealing with his level of desperation. May there be peace in whatever realm awaits him. May there be help for those who face his situation now.

[sasha031]

16. I am so sorry for your tragic loss of your dear friend

this is a tragic story of a 99er,

I am so deeply sorry for your pain and suffering his family is going through.

[Swede]

17. Terrible news,Joe.

RIP Todd.

[Raksha]

18. I am so sorry.

[laylah]

19. I'm so sorry, Joe. nt

[Brickbat]

20. You and his family are in my thoughts, as is the crew on that train.

People talk about selfish or not selfish, but I do think it's a terrible thing to make someone else do your dirty work.

[snagglepuss]

22. I'm so sorry. nt

[driver8]

23. Oh, man...I'm so sorry.

RIP, Todd.

[Dappleganger]

24. So sorry to hear of this, depression is a cruel disease.

:hug:

[Mnemosyne]

25. I am so sorry, Joe. I know the pain of that kind of sudden loss too well,

too many times. :hug:

[City Lights]

27. So very sorry, Joe.

:hug:

[Ishoutandscream2]

29. So sorry, Joe

Peace be with you and your friend's family and others who loved him.

[Ohio Joe]

32. Thank you all for the kind words and understanding

I've cracked open a bottle of Jack (Todds favorite) and am going to have a few and think about all the good times we had. I'm an atheist, so at a friends passing I like to smile at their memory and think of all of the good things... and always keep those thoughts of them in mind.

Thanks again everyone, it is really appreciated! Joe

[IndyJones]

35. I'm so sorry for his family. Sorry for the loss of your friend.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. I am so sorry for your loss, OJ. Nothing makes it better...nothing

takes away the pain, nothing rationalizes these losses. Just know that I am sorry.

[thelordofhell]

41. Bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLWTXMdZBKY&nofeather=True

My condolences on the loss of your friend

[Kurovski]

44. Very sad, very sorry to all.

My condolences.

[stevedeshazer]

45. Sad to hear, buddy.

Take care of yourself.

Peace, Steve

[walldude]

46. I had one myself back in the 80's... A very good friend

who started me on my career, taught me everything. It was terrible, I had no idea he was even depressed and to make matters worse he had just gotten married like a month before.

My condolences man, , I've felt your pain...

[WillyT]

50. I'm Very Sorry Joe...

:cry:

:grouphug:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

51. RIP, Todd.

And my best white light to all those at the edge of the abyss.

Know that we are only able to do so much, and that if you treat people well, you are doing enough.

[spanone]

52. sorry about that. my sister went out that way....it's a tough one.

[Lifelong Protester]

53. I am sorry for your loss, too.

These are tough times, I worry about more stories like this.

[Ghost in the Machine]

54. Sorry for your loss.. healing vibes for the family n/t

[Divernan]

56. I knew 4 engineers who suicided when massive layoffs hit the space program

I was living in Florida - my then-husband worked at Cape Canaveral on the Saturn IV-B. One week everyone got lovely thank you notes from the White House for their contributions to the space race. A few months later, massive layoffs hit all the contractors and subcontractors. These were guys who had been actively recruited while undergraduates - had never had to go on a single job interview. Their skills were so specialized, they had no marketable engineering experience. Their job market prospects were abysmal. They all had big life insurance policies and families - they evidently saw suicide as the only way they could provide for their families. Two of them tried to stage "accidents" by driving their cars off roads at high speeds into walls.

We were OK because instead of buying canal front houses, sailboats, and regular weekend jaunts to the Bahamas, we saved 10% of our salary. I'd encouraged my husband to get an MBA via night classes from Florida State and he only needed one more semester to finish. My Mom paid his tuition. Lots of abandoned houses and despair in central Florida back then.
Deja vu to now I guess.

[Hissyspit]

57. I believe there is a documentary about that time. Don't

remember its name.