Germany’s solar panels produce more power than Japan’s entire Fukushima complex

[ensho]

http://www.grist.org/article/2011-03-22-germanys-solar-panels-produce-more-power-than-japans-entire-fuku


Germany is the world leader in installed solar photovoltaic panels -- and they also just shut down seven of their oldest nuclear reactors. Coincidence? Maaaaybe ... Anyway, it's worth noting that just today, total power output of Germany's installed solar PV panels hit 12.1 GW -- greater than the total power output (10 GW) of Japan's entire 6-reactor nuclear power plant.

-snip-
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our nuke Barons hate solar - end of story

[CBGLuthier]

1. The Orange R by John Clagett

I read this book years ago about a future where everything was a little radiative from the all nuke plants and solar was the butt of jokes and suppressed.

It taught me the important lesson that evil men will do anything to keep their power and their money.

http://www.amazon.com/Orange-R-John-Clagett/dp/059500296X

[TBF]

3. Not to mention the evil economic system

that rewards the greedy.

[LAGC]

2. I don't think they hate solar, it's just that they can't make as much money off of it yet.

Many energy companies are dabbling in solar, but the main problem (even with serious government subsidies) is cost.

Germany wants to abandon nuclear power (again?) but admits doing so will cause serious increase in energy costs, which affects the poor the most.

Germany's economy is still going strong with low unemployment, so maybe the people will tolerate paying more to heat and power their homes.

But short of government assistance for low-income families here (which we're already seeing cut back with LIHEAP), I don't see nuclear going away any time soon, especially if stopping climate change from mass-burning fossil fuels (coal/gas) is a priority.

[SidDithers]

4. Misleading post. Power output at that single moment was higher...

but what about when it's dark? A better measure to compare is the total annual power output, which is the Capacity x capacity factor x total hours in a year, expressed in GWh.


Germany has 17.3GW of total solar capacity, but their solar plants operate at a capacity factor of only ~12%
(source wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany)

17.3 GW x 24hours x 365 days x 12% capacity factor = 18,185 GWh of power output in a year


The reactor complex at Fukushima had a nominal capacity 4696 MW, but the average capacity factor of nuclear in Japan is 61%
(source: http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/12/average-capacity-factor-for-nuclear.html)

4.7 GW x 24 hours x 365 days x 61% = 25,115 GWh of power output in a year.

Edit: actual annual output is 29,891 GWh according to wiki, so the capacity factor at Fukushima Daiichi is 72.6%. My estimate above was too low.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

So, a single reactor complex, with 6 smallish reactors, produces 38% more power in a year than all of the solar in Germany.
(Edit: Actually 64% higher than all the solar in Germany, with the correct annual output)

Facts are good.

Sid

[robcon]

5. Thanks Sid. Good analysis

The three problems with solar can be summarized as follows: cost, clouds and night.

[PVnRT]

6. Stop it with those facts

Clearly you're a plant by the nuclear industry to spread lies and disinformation.

[NickB79]

7. Admit it, you're the president of Tepco, aren't you?

:evilgrin:

[SidDithers]

10. Curses. And I would have gotten away with it, too...

if it hadn't been for you meddling kids! :hi:

Sid

[Uncle Joe]

12. Technological advances in battery storage ability and retention are the keys to improving

the solar capacity factor and I believe those changes are taking place now and will continue to improve with time.

[Courtesy Flush]

14. In order to make it work...

... Germany would have to have daylight for 24 hours every day. They could accomplish this by expanding their nation around the globe. It's something to think about.

[MedicalAdmin]

17. Such as the fact that we still don't know WTF to do with the used fuel...

Solve that one and you can count me in as a fan. Until then it's just another transitional crappy poluting energy source.

I think solar, wind, hydro, tidal, etc need to be part of the solution. I also think that decentralizing our power grid more is a good idea for several reasons having to do with redundancy in case of natural disaster as well as security reasons.

But hey - I'm not SID so WTF can I know?

[SidDithers]

19. Can you at least acknowledge that it's misleading to represent capacity as total power output...

without mentioning that wind has a capacity factor of ~12% and nuclear has a capacity factor of ~72%?

Beyond that, I don't know WTF you can know.

Sid

[MedicalAdmin]

20. Misleading? Sure, why not.

And there is still an issue with the proper storage of nuclear waste. There is just no good long term solution at this time. Does that mean we shouldn't have nuclear as a transitional fuel? No. But I do think that any rational power policy should take into account other options.

Solar - capital outlay is heavy (currently) - maintenance is minimal (relatively) and the fuel is, well, pretty cheap and plentiful.
Nuclear - capital outlay is really heavy - maintenance is heavy and the fuel is, well, not as plentiful and has some pretty nasty problems. However it's output is good and if they solve the fuel issue ....

What are your thoughts on tidal?


I must admit Sid that I don't get you. As far as I can tell you seem to be a semi-pro skeptic, glass half empty kinda guy, but that is based on a few online posts. For all I know you could be pooping sunshine out of your ass 24/7. But I wouldn't bet that way based on the posts of yours that I have read on DU.

[Hugabear]

8. I will thank you kindly to shut the fuck up

Sincerely,

Nuclear, Coal, and Oil

[Yo_Mama]

9. And it has a very low net contribution to electricity supply

http://thegwpf.org/energy-news/1129-green-subsidies-wreak-havoc-on-german-economic.html

Germany is trying to figure out what to do. The subsidies they put in are causing electricity costs to consumers to rise rapidly. This is such a big problem that it has come up the Bundesbank's (Germany's central bank) monthly reports. They cannot continue what they are doing.

The bright side is that the cost of solar power is dropping, so they should be able to cut the feed-in tariff. The downside is that they are stuck paying these tariffs for a very long time.

The worst of all is that solar power for Germany is not such a good match. For instance, in most of CA peak draw times correlate pretty well with solar power production peaks ( a little offset, but still...) In Germany, which uses a great deal of electricity for manufacturing and relatively little for AC, peak production is almost negative to peak use.

The reason why the figure you cite is meaningless is because it is capacity, not production. In Germany, most people who have installed the systems need to divide capacity by 5 or 6 to get output.

Capacity is figured by number of hours of sunlight per year X maximum output of installed panels. Days of lower sunlight, dust or pollens on panels, etc, and reductions in sunlight falling on the panels from shading or less than perfect placement all reduce output. In addition, as solar panels age they generally lose some capacity so your net output will slide somewhat.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, ensho.:thumbsup:

[G_j]

13. K&R

[Snoutport]

15. kr important stuff!

[FBaggins]

16. They do NOW... because fukushima's reactors are shut down.

The actual amount of electricity that the solar panels actually created last year would have been quite a bit less (and that's even correcting for the fact that fukushima's output was less than half of the 10GW that the author claims). Germany's capacity factor for solar was less than 10% in 2009.

Plus... Germany's solar capacity cost quite a bit more. Even at today's lower prices for solar, we're still talking about close to $90 billion. It's a sure thing that Japan didn't pay that much to build the nuclear plants.

Of course... they might pay that much to cleam them up. :(

[Aerows]

18. They didn't get involved in Libya, either

Hmmm. Nuclear power, solar panels, and not involved in fights for oil. Who else didn't get involved in Libya? The Netherlands. Brazil.

*confused*

Why isn't the Libyan problem a priority for these nations?