We would shoot protesters dead too

[mdmc]

I mean, if they took arms up to overthrow America.. and it came down to it..
We would end a violent treasonous revolt with violence too..

[dbackjon]

1. Yup, those treasonous Kent Staters learned a lesson

[WinkyDink]

3. Which not only supports the OP's point, but shows it wouldn't even require treason to kill us.

[Brickbat]

2. Many people fighting for unions have been shot and killed in this country.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Or, when non-violent.

[Cleita]

5. Unfortunately, you are right.

I believe this is why we didn't protest against the Supreme Court when they awarded Bush the Presidency in 2000, even though subsequent investigations would show that Gore would have won, if the Florida Supreme Court's decision to recount the votes had been followed. Instead the Supreme Court stopped the legitimate recount. We should have protested but we would have been shot down and we knew it even though it would have been a justified revolt.

[Modern_Matthew]

6. I woudn't consider a revolution to be "treasonous" nt

[mdmc]

8. in the usa we do in fact have the right to form a more perfect union

I am pretty sure we made pretty sure that Libyans never had that right. Then when they revolted, they were crime, they got policed..

Dear Leader said I don't want to be overthrown, those that over throw me are traitors, traitors get shot.

All in all, I will take the side of the rebels, but I don't know enough about the future of Libya to put my kids lives (or my money) on helping the rebels.. they seem pretty weak and unable to hold it together.. Seems like another 50 year mess we are in , imho..

[joshcryer]

13. Your argument would justfiy attacking the Egypt protesters or the Yemen protesters.

As soon as the military defected it illegally went against the states interests.

[mdmc]

34. correct

Now those leaders are gone but still alive.

[joshcryer]

36. So basically we only care about the winning side.

Gotcha.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Didn't they get show WITHOUT taking arms to overthrow Kadaffi?

That's what I understood. That 8,000 were shot dead.
Would we stand to have 8,000 dead protestors and expect nothing
to be done?

[joshcryer]

10. Roughly 8k to 10k are dead, about 1.5k of those are "rebels/opposition."

People here like to argue that if you take up arms you're a rebel and immediately are fair game.

Even if you've never in your life shot a gun.

[mdmc]

11. not sure

Somehow the rebels "overtook" and "held" towns and cities.. Not sure how it was done.. But they were policing their holdings from looters and other criminals.. So I think they had some force.. Just not enough force to beat back a military.

[joshcryer]

12. Their force was small arms, Gaddafi's force was west provided arty, jets, tanks.

[MedicalAdmin]

17. Are you kidding me.

More than half of this country would jerk their knees and cheer if 8,000 "librul" protesters were mowed down like wheat before a scythe. The would be round the clock flag waving coverage of how dangerous the al quida colluders had been stopped. RW radio would be banging the drum. The network clowns would be wringing their hands and turning the other cheek in regret. Rush, Beck, et.al. would be cackling gleefully while cashing their checks and justifying further crack downs on the enemies of america.

If you think it wouldn't happen here you are sadly wrong. ANd I grieve for the loss of our countries soul with you.

[EFerrari]

18. Do you think they took all that territory with their sweet smiles?

Libya is not Egypt.

[FrenchieCat]

24. I didn't think there was any opposition from Kaddafi.....

considering that Kaddafi had to import his rental mercernaries from Africa to even start fighting back.

I've you got some numbers for Kaddafi supporter casualty numbers?

[joshcryer]

25. Opposition has lost 1500, Gaddafi has lost about 500. Total dead is between 6k-10k.

So 4k to 8k are civilian deaths.

[EFerrari]

38. He had plenty of back up for the initial protests from his own guard.

The mercenaries came a little later. I've been watching this since it started up.

I don't know if there are numbers for casualties on his side. You know he will make claims that no one can verify. Same with the rebels.

[joshcryer]

27. Nope, Egypt's military wasn't shot at by paid mercenaries by the government.

[joshcryer]

9. We would very likely attack our military if it defected for protesters.

That didn't happen in Egypt or Yemen but it did in Libya.

[Rage for Order]

14. Yep. In fact, it happened about 150 years ago n/t

[NutmegYankee]

19. Actually, the "protesters" attacked us. nt

[Rage for Order]

26. True, but I was responding more to the body of the post...

This part:

"if they took arms up to overthrow America.. and it came down to it..
We would end a violent treasonous revolt with violence too.."

Lincoln could have just let the South secede rather than going to war to keep the union together.

[Drale]

15. I believe that the protesters didn't turn into "rebels"

until Gadhafi started killing them, I could be wrong about that though.

[joshcryer]

16. Correct.

[GeorgeGist]

20. Speak for your self

Christian.

[Ezlivin]

21. We would NOT

Our DoD has too many new "crowd control devices" that they'd want to use.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/l/LRAD.htm

http://www.lradx.com/site/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzler_(weapon)

http://www.kirtland.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070404-043.pdf

[joshcryer]

29. Yep, same shit was used in Bahrain.

Was effective in Oaxaca, and it is overall effective when people protest.

In Libya they don't have crowd control. There's a famous quote by a dead fighter. "In Libya bullets are crowd control."

[David__77]

22. Sure, they even did an aerial bombing of MOVE.

There's sure no "no fly zone" over US cities!

[hfojvt]

23. not us - we are pure

We would welcome our new teabag overlords.

[stevenleser]

28. The point is that people unhappy here have the ability to change their government and its leaders

They did not in Libya.

[joshcryer]

30. It's just more efforts to delegitimize the uprising.

I doubt they'd be saying the same tune if the protesters and the militaries who defected in Egypt and Yemen were being shot at by their respective governments. And I am fucking glad it didn't come to that.

[Rex]

31. Yeah...er...no...wait...wtf?

Wake up on the wrongside of bed much?

Leave those kind of things to the military, if it ever comes to that WHICH IT WON'T.

All these gung-ho people waiting for a 'revolt'...keep waiting and please hold your breath.

Thanks.

[joshcryer]

33. He's referring to Libya, he's saying that the US would do what Gaddafi has done.

But he's ignoring that Egypt and Yemen could've gone that way, too. And making no statement about whether or not that'd be OK.

[NorthCarolina]

32. and Torture too! nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

35. The White Rose were guilty of treason too.

"Treason" against a dictatorship is usually a virtue, not a vice.

[Raine]

37. Exactly nt

:thumbsup: