I knew that once it escalated to require UN help the Libyan revolutionaries would be diminished.

[joshcryer]

Neocon conspiracies, terrorists, oil grabs, the list goes on. The UN saw Benghazi was about to be razed and acted. Whether or not that was the right thing is for history to decide, some may hope that Libya falls into chaos, but I hope that the spirit of the revolution lives on and Gaddafi is toppled and the Libyan people can breath again for the first time in 42 years.

I've been following it from the beginning, I doubt most have. I've seen the slow slide toward delegitimizing the Libyan revolution, in the sake of "anti-imperialism." The very idea that a persecuted people would dare ask the international community for help was spit upon, devalued. It's not that the person is persecuted, it's not that the person's loved ones are falling by their side dead, it's because that person dare ask the question. "I need help."

Anti-war is a good thing, anti-violence is a good thing, but there's a point where being anti-war against someone who is already creating war where it falls flat. I am for free speech, but I know that free speech ends when it is hate speech. Likewise I am anti-violence, but I know that being anti-violence ends when someone is being violent toward me. Or, I am anti-war, but I know that being anti-war ends when someone is announces they are at war with me. It's a simple tit for tat. And it is unquestionable that Gaddafi has committed atrocities against his own people, and it is unquestionable that Benghazi would have been razed, like Az Zawiyah, and Bin Jawad, and Ras Lanuf before it.

http://zinelibrary.info/how-nonviolence-protects-state-peter-gelderloos

[bowens43]

1. more pro war bullshit.......

[joshcryer]

2. Yeah? Which part?

[DainBramaged]

3. I guess he can spew as much as he wants on the 'new' DU

Gay, no rights, killing you bet where does our Gvernment line up.


I wish those who loved the war fought for Gay rights as hard, no wait, that should't sound like that.....

[DURHAM D]

4. claptrap

[Upton]

6. +1000

[bengalherder]

5. Good God! has ANYBODY on this fucking site READ

what has gone on for the first MONTH of this conflict? It's as easy as going to Catherina's journal and reading all hundred and 50 so pages. OR ARE YOU TOO LAZY?


Josh is right. He's in the loop, he's been tracking this for weeks, as I have via threads and anon+ twitter, you tube, etc. We are apparently both also ambivalent about the UN taking over, but HELL! Where the eff have you sanctimonious bastards been while Kadaffi was shooting huge effin anti-aircraft missiles at non-violent protesters creating huge holes in people's bodies and blaming al-qaida for it an effin a month ago?

Josh doesn't deserve your vitriol just because YOU refuse to actually get involved and read about a goddamn topic (which has been the best thread availible on the internets and hosted at your own goddamn site) until it becomes a 'controversy'.

Yeah, it's caps, YEAH, it's YELLING! How else am I supposed to make you actually look at primary journalistic sources? Catherina's Journal, start there dammit!

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. My default position is anti any war, but I can't be knee jerk about it

Not in this world. I wasn't alive for World War II, but I was fully adult when the mass killing started in Rwanda. To this day it pains me that we as a nation didn't lift a finger to stop mass murderers with machetes from hacking to death hundreds of thousands of men women and childre ijnto bloody pieces, the ones who weren't burnt alive in churches that is. There are always multiple layers that influence any decision, but I know this. My feelings about Rwanda and our inaction there would not have been changed by knowing the amount of oil that was or was not there, or by knowing which corporation would or would not profit by U.S. intervention or lack of it.

[strategery blunder]

8. +1

and to those who say "this is Iraq II:"

Iraq: First Gulf War ends. Saddam brutally crushes protests after the US leaves. 12 years later, well too late to actually be of any help to those protesters, Bush throws "but Saddam is an evil dictator!!!11!" in the list of excuses to war when the WMD lies are questioned.

Libya: Gaddafi is blowing up his own people with AA missiles RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Gaddafi violates his own ceasefire to indiscriminately shell Benghazi (and Misurata) for a day, with promises to return tomorrow (this was the pattern in Zawiyah for the several days it took Gaddafi to flatten the city). Blatant war crimes in progress. The victim cities plead for a NFZ. International community intervenes to stop genocide in progress.

And yet people here fail to see the difference. I know the US has a history of being inconsistent when it comes to intervening to prevent genocide, but past inconsistency does not affect the facts on the ground right now, the facts that show Gaddafi to be committing war crimes to cling to power.