Rant: Insurance copays bankrupting you? Upside-down on your mortgage? Join the club.

[phrigndumass]

It used to be that a homeowner built equity in their home, and in most cases if a life crisis came about, the homeowner could use this equity as secure collateral to cover at least part of the cost of the crisis. Those were the good old days.

When the housing market crashed, that equity vanished and the ability of a homeowner to handle a monetary crisis vanished as well. Not only that, some bankers were lending without requiring any money down, zero equity, and when fair market values dropped, many homeowners now found themselves owing more on their mortgages than their house is worth.

Add to all this the fact that health insurance premiums have more than tripled in the last decade, while at the same time providing fewer benefits or requiring the insured to pay a bigger part of the bill up front. The new health care legislation that passed has helped by setting some annual out-of-pocket caps, but if you have no cash on hand or equity from which to borrow, even the smallest of crises can nearly bankrupt you. This has got to change, especially since it affects poorer working folks far more than it does others.

This is my situation today.

Many of you know through my Daily Widget posts (tracking Obama’s election potential) in 2008 that I have been dealing with OCD and seeing a therapist. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have also developed a debilitating condition called Adrenal Exhaustion, which is really a symptom of something else currently unknown. This condition leaves me fatigued most of the time, and I have become unable to work due to lack of energy and focus.

My disability payments will kick in three months after the first day of absence (May 18), but in the meantime there will be a six-week gap where I have no time benefits left to use at work so I won’t be paid for that time. I can apply for other assistance in the gap, but the bureaucracy to receive it will take longer than the gap. Meanwhile, the medical bills (mostly copays and parts that the insurance company refuses to pay for, like reports for disability) continue to pile up.

I purchased a house in 2005 with no money down and two mortgages, one of them interest-only, because it was my dream home and the bank made it possible for me to do so. So I am upside-down on my mortgage(s), owing several thousand dollars more than what my house can be listed for. I will no longer have the funds or the energy to maintain the property, so I am forced to sell it right away. Realtor commission and closing costs will also add several thousand dollars to the closing … money I don’t have.

The point to this rant is that something has to change to help people in these gaps, whether it be legislation, timely nonprofit assistance, or even awareness. We can’t always count on others to help us, especially since many have found themselves in exactly the same situation.

If you have found yourself in a difficult situation due to the irresponsible schemes of the banking and insurance industries, I hope you will rec this thread to give it more exposure. You are not alone.

In the words of a dear DU friend, “The most important thing to remember is that you are a human being, you are not a career or an address in an upscale neighborhood or a fat retirement investment account. And we humans have been living since day one without any of those things.”

Walking away is a viable option in many instances.

My Best to All,
- Phrig

[bvar22]

1. All by design, my Pretty.

All by design.
It is going to get worse before it gets any better.




Who will STAND UP and represent THIS American Majority?
Platitudes, Rhetoric, Empty Promises, and Excuses are meaningless now.

"By their WORKS you will know them,"
And by their WORKS they will be held accountable.

[phrigndumass]

4. This is true, my friend

If I could have waited it out for a few more years, I could sell the house and pay much of the medical bills. Time waits for no one, though.

:hi:

[phrigndumass]

14. btw, bvar ...

LOVE your Rachel Maddow graphic! Republicans are so completely out of tune with the American people, and their wants and needs!

[rosesaylavee]

2. Synchronistically... I was just reading something about

adrenal stress last night. It was in a women's health book but still I think it applies to all humans. It recommended DHEA and a good multi vitamin. PM me if you would like the name of the book but I think if you google you might find more info along those lines. I also read this website from time to time: http://www.earthclinic.com/

I am sorry you are going thru this situation. We too bought a house - the one we were renting - about the same time in much the same way. So far, we are maintaining and keeping our nose above the water but I know that an illness or just about anything can upset this apple cart pretty quickly. Was looking on zillow the other day and also saw that the value of the place has degraded below what we bought it for 7 years ago.

Hugs to you my friend! Wish I could help!

[phrigndumass]

6. Very interesting about the DHEA

I was reading the same thing not too long ago, and I need to check into it with my psych and primary care doctor. I'll check out your link, thanks!

There are many homeopathic choices available as well. I've tried most of them. The simple fact is that long-term chronic stress causes adrenal exhaustion, and in some cases hydrocortisone is a life-saver ... but it is also expensive, and a disability paycheck doesn't cover the copay for that.

Providing a nice house for your family and children is an honorable thing in our society, but living paycheck to paycheck to accomplish that causes anxiety in the family. I'm not surprised that your home value has degraded, but I hope it turns around for you (and us all) very soon!

:hi:

[phrigndumass]

15. I've found some of my notes from therapy that does help the ...

... adrenaline stemming from anxiety and stress. Let me know what you think, rosesaylavee ...

(snip, from my own notes)

The human body, because it's a wonderful self-adjusting system has a mechanism called ADAPTATION. If you repeatedly have emergencies the body learns to dump larger and larger amounts of adrenaline at the slightest hint of an emergency. The adrenal gland puts out about 60 different hormones -- repeated requests for adrenaline dumps will affect all the others. A hair-trigger adrenaline response is not what you want in modern life. What happens in modern life is that several times a day many people have low-blood-sugar emergencies. This leads to adrenaline dumping and anxiety; it also leads to hormonal imbalances.

Anxiety and tension stem from not having deficiency needs met. To relieve anxiety and tension, these deficiency needs must be met:
- SAFETY: Security of body, employment, resources, morality, the family, health, property, finances, well-being
- LOVE/BELONGING: Friendship, family, intimacy, sexual intimacy, support, acceptance
- ESTEEM: Self-esteem, confidence, achievement, respect of self, respect of others, respect by others

In addition to the above, there must be an adequate supply of the following:
- Nutrition
- Quality sleep
- Exercise
- Balance

When the Love and Belonging needs go unmet, in their absence many people become susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety, and clinical depression. People with low self-esteem need respect from others, but they must first accept themselves internally. Psychological imbalances such as depression can prevent a person from obtaining self-esteem and self-respect internally and respect from others. Deprivation of these needs can lead to an inferiority complex, weakness and helplessness.

Self-actualization comes not just from having all the above needs met, but more importantly from mastering these needs. The self-actualized person can then mature in the following areas:
- Acceptance of nature and the way things are, rather than trying to change things to suit one’s neuroses
- Problem-centering (executive functioning)
- The need for privacy
- Morality and discrimination between means and ends (ethics)
- A sense of humor
- Acceptance of mistakes and imperfections (enables one to use objective logic to solve problems, rather than emotions which can lead to misperceptions)
- The desire to know and to understand (following healthy curiosity and gaining insight)

In self-actualization, the ideal being is one who is independent and makes decisions based upon nature and not the external authority of society or man.

For more study on Self-actualization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_actualization

Unfortunately, my adrenal exhaustion is partly stress-anxiety driven and partly medical, since I had this condition prior to the onset of the mental conditions.

:hi:

[ejpoeta]

3. i am sorry about your situation. reminds me of that commercial from before the

crash with the guy who was riding around on his lawn mower in his perfect yard etc saying he was in debt up to his eyeballs. i think a lot of folks are in that situation. and then the consumer gets blamed after years of conditioning us to want our 'dream home' or to live in a certain address or school district etc and have certain things..... and the banks tell us we can afford it when we may not be able to, but since they know finance then they must be right.... but we get blamed when things go south. we are doing better than most, but know that if anything should happen like one of us getting hurt or something we are screwed! a lot of people are in denial about how perilous their situation is. and since we don't have representation in congress, where else are we to go. at some point i feel there may be a revolt. not sure what it will take for that to happen though.

[woo me with science]

5. Speaking of commercials,

it would be interesting to do a study to see the growth in percentage of commercials these days for services intended to separate desperate people from what remains of their assets. I am saddened and outraged by the constant stream of commercials for reverse mortgages, companies that will liquidate your annuities for a price, cash loan shark places, etc. And they all claim to "help" you achieve financial security.

Not to mention the "no credit check" services that will rent you anything at outrageous terms.

[phrigndumass]

8. Yes! Like "Clean Coal" (we'll all pay for it in the end)

And even some credit card consolidation services, lots more! Many of these things are like bait and switch.

:hi:

[ejpoeta]

9. the ones claiming to link themselves to the government's mortgate plan

i find the most disturbing. if you listen to the 'fine print' regarding debt collection that collectors may still hound you and then what is the point! it is amazing the difference in the tone of commercials since before the crash and today. even walmart... i remember a commercial about how she went in for one thing and came out with so much more. which is true! then it was about saving money. seems they are going back in the direction of spend spend.... with christmas commercials about buying for ourselves. greed is good you know!!

[phrigndumass]

7. I agree, our society needs to learn to think differently =)

... and yet there has not yet been even one indictment of a banker for these scheming practices.

I hope there won't be a revolt, but rather solid, popular change.

:hi:

[ejpoeta]

10. i fear what will happen is some folks who are treading water will think (as i hear them do)

that the unemployed and poor are so because they are lazy. it was well within their control! until it happens to them. shortsighted thinking by a lot of people who refuse to see what is happening when we can still do something about it. i am assuming that we can still do something about it because honestly i am not sure. corporations and rich folks have a lot of money and there are a lot of gullible people out there who seem to think once the middle class is gone they are going to land on the other side of that cavern instead of in the heap with the rest of us. It won't be until they feel themselves falling that they will realize which side they are going to land on.

[phrigndumass]

11. That's the thinking among the "privileged" few

When someone has possesses something that others don't, and s/he is feeling secure about it, it's natural to those who think they are privileged to blame the victim for their own troubles. Psychologically speaking, it makes the ones who "have" feel security believing that there is no possible way they can end up in a bad financial situation like "lazy" folks because they perceive themselves as not lazy. They seem to think they're above it.

:hi:

[NYC_SKP]

12. Sending good vibes, phrigndumass.

to you and all represented by your rant this morning.

:hug:

[phrigndumass]

13. Thanks, NYC_SKP, and good wishes to all in similar situations

:hug:

[mwooldri]

16. *hugs and best wishes*

I wish I could rec, can only kick it up...

The situation was a bit wierd for us, we couldn't get financing for a house until AFTER the housing bubble burst (though there wasn't a big bubble here anyway). We had a Ch 7 BK in 2002/2003 and what credit cards I did have were entirely maxed out (low limit ones). We could afford it but no-one would give us a mortgage. Until last year.

We ended up getting a nice foreclosure, getting financing for it backed by the USDA, affordable payments and a good price on the house.

HOWEVER... we are up to here with medical deductibles and coinsurance. And I am one of the lucky ones. My place of work is shutting down, with 2000 employees having to find something else. I'm being kept on in a home office setting so I am thankful that I get to keep my job and employer and all the benefits they provide me. Should I get to the state that I am no longer able to function (I have bipolar) and have to go on disability, then I will be in a similar state as you.

I can only wish you all the best. I wish I could help out but I am but one individual. You are right in saying that walking away may be the best option. I know this may sound crazy but maybe even a Chapter 7 BK could be a solution - if you have medical collections up the wazoo and a huge upside down mortgage. It is a suggestion... for some people it works, some people it doesn't. Our family was foreclosed on in 1992 but I was a lot younger but my parents still feel the pain. I felt guilty about getting a foreclosure knowing some family lost their home - my dad put me at ease at that one... just advising us that as long as we stick together as a family because that is all that matters at the end of the day.

Take care... work on that OCD - hopefully it does come to pass and gets better...

[phrigndumass]

19. Thank you for your note, mwooldri :)

As well as you, I also have bipolar type 2, among other things, so I certainly understand. Being on short-term disability and having the time to cope with specific problems and with life in general is a godsend for me, but the income sucks and the medical bills still keep coming. Just when we seem to be making some headway, another year changes on the calendar and the insurance companies require more of us than ever before.

Your father sounds like a wise man. You should feel no guilt, especially since the bank evicted the previous owners; you didn't evict them. Being a family is what matters, you are correct.

Wishing you the best,
- Phrig :)

:hi:

[cliffordu]

17. K&R - sorry I'm late to the party....

[phrigndumass]

20. No need to be sorry, cliffy

Thanks for being there for me with your words of wisdom! :)

[cliffordu]

18. Kicked