Why is US backing force in Libya but not Bahrain, Yemen?

[dipsydoodle]

What's the difference between Libya and Yemen or Bahrain?

>

Yemen and Bahrain's crackdowns have so far been met only with words, not action.

On one level the answer is obvious.

Bahrain and Yemen are US allies - especially Bahrain with its large US naval base. Libya is not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12792637

[dixiegrrrrl]

1. OIL.

[DJ13]

2. Yep

If oils involved the people living there always come a distant second.

[tabatha]

5. Nope.

[DJ13]

32. Yep.

[tabatha]

35. Did you watch Richard Engel on the Rachel Maddow show tonight.

please do.

[DJ13]

36. Why?

[tabatha]

38. Because he knows what he is talking about.

[tabatha]

4. How much oil does the US get from Libya.

I bet you don't even know.

[dipsydoodle]

8. That's not material

Whoever gets it has to switch to substitute sources in its absence as for example Italy will need to do for a while.

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. Libya has the largest reserves of oil in Africa.

It is not a matter of how much oil the USA GETS...it is a matter of how much money the Big Oil companies can MAKE from drilling, refining and selling the oil to our "friends".
AND
how much oil Russia and China do NOT get.
We are in a resource war.

[joshcryer]

19. You don't get it. The oil will flow regardless. Gaddafi made very lucrative oil contracts...

...in the past few years. It's absurd to think it's about "oil."

Iraq as an oil war was logical because Iraq was not pumping oil due to sanctions. Iran would also make sense.

Gaddafi was pumping the oil and we don't have a reason to invade countries that pump oil. Venezuela is another good example of this. Turn off the oil and see how quick intervention happens.

[BooScout]

82. I know....

Estimates are anywhere between 2 to 7 percent of Libya's oil goes to the US. Interestingly Libya exports around 85 percent of it's oil to the European Union...........the sold called leaders of this coalition. Keep on saying it's about the humanitarian aid if it makes you feel better.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Is that a euphemism for

HYPOCRISY.

:hi:

[Posteritatis]

15. That explains the American military interventions in Sudan and Uganda - oh, wait. (nt)

[DeSwiss]

41. Yep. n/t

[Turborama]

44. Nope. Libya has had US and EU oil corporations freely operating there since at least 2004

As you can see here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4768780&mesg_id=4770154

So, attempts to try and turn the motive for multiple countries trying to stop the massacre in Libya continuing/escalating into simply "OIL" instantly fail.

[gateley]

46. I heard that Bushco/Oil cut a deal with them and made them our 'friends' - another

oil deal.

[Turborama]

47. So did Blair, in preparation for BP's big deal

Details in the link above.

:hi:

[gateley]

71. Yeah - that's great stuff you posted. When I'd heard that (on progressive radio)

I kept posting it here but then thought, maybe I'd better see if that's accurate, but I couldn't find anything to back it up. So I'm REALLY appreciative -- and better informed -- with the info you provided! Thanks! ;hi:

[Turborama]

80. You're most welcome

Glad that you found it useful/interesting.

BTW I've been posting as a reply for a while and thought it was about time it was posted as an OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x696024

Hopefully others will find it as informative. Although at the moment the opposite seems the case, unfortunately.

[tabatha]

3. Here are a few reasons

a) The Libyans have asked from at least early March for a no-fly zone.

b) The Arab League has asked from late February for a no-fly zone.

c) The French FM spoke passionately about the need to implement a NFZ.

d) The UK has also been adamant about a NFZ.

e) The Danish govt has just voted unanimously to send the Danish AF to help.

f) Gaddafi has killed thousands of people.

[David__77]

9. Are B - E at all relevant?

Not to me. Foreign states can call for whatever they want. I don't want a sovereign United States to make its decisions on those bases. As for B, "the Libyans" is a specific group: "Libyan Transitional Council," headed by Gaddafi's ex-justice minister. We need to be critical about recognizing just-formed bodies as representative of a whole people. And, finally, is "thousands" of deaths is a criterion, then there are many other areas to intervene as well, from India/Pakistan, to Colombia, to Aceh/Indonesia, on and on. If a Bahraini opposition council asks for intervention and a similar per capita proportion of deaths occurs, I suppose you will support intervention?

[dipsydoodle]

10. There has been nothing published whatsoever

indicating in what proportion the "rebels" are out of the total population. I find that in itself suspect.

There is no doubt there have been behind the scenes meetings between the Libyan Transitional Council and the US.

Yes - "We" need to be critical about recognizing just-formed bodies as representative of a whole people.

[David__77]

11. I meant per capita deaths.

For instance, if there were 3,000 deaths in Libya, this is equal to about 0.046% of the national population. 0.046% of the Bahraini population is about 365 people. I am saying that 365 deaths in Bahrain is in per capita terms as great as 3,000 deaths in Libya. And if genocide conceptually is a working concept, then it is through per capita terms that we must view these things, or else small minority groups will be ignored.

[joshcryer]

13. This is very true, the deaths in Bahrain are in the low hundreds, but the military of Bahrain...

...has yet to defect to protest the actions taken by the government.

[tabatha]

20. Richard Engel of the Rachel Maddow show

just said that Bahrain is no Libya.

Taking the 40 years of abominable treatment of its people, terrorism, etc - none of those countries come close to Libya. I hope a transcript is available.

[joshcryer]

23. If the protesters do get popular support with the militaries and politicians, however...

...I would still support some sort of mediation (and if it escalates to the level that Libya has, I would support UN intervention).

[David__77]

55. Why do they need support from the military to justify intervention?

That wouldn't indicate more popular support necessarily, just that the existing state was more successful in keeping its opponents out of power structures.

[joshcryer]

57. Because that is at least one signal that their persecution has gone beyond normal affairs?

More people died in Egypt than who died in Yemen and Bahrain 5 times over. :puke:

[LooseWilly]

81. "one signal that their persecution has gone beyond normal affairs?"...? Is that the criterion?

When the persecution goes "beyond normal affairs"?... then the UN should intervene?

I would like to invite you to re-think your criterion... else all new governments might be inclined to "go Idi Amin" and just start torturing and disappearing and so on right off the bat... in order to be sure that future repression doesn't go "beyond normal affairs"...

Perhaps you can think of another criterion for... invasion? :+

[joshcryer]

84. That's for the UN to decide. The bar should definitely be lowered.

But tyrannical states wouldn't have it.

[LooseWilly]

86. The US is gonna let the UN decide when intervention is called for?? Really?

US Vetoes UN Resolution Condemning Illegal Israeli Settlements
(http://www.alternet.org/world/149979/us_vetoes_un_resolution_condemning_illegal_israeli_settlements__will_the_palestinians_end_up_benefiting_from_the_move)

Willing to "lower" the bar to include Israeli treatment of Palestinians which the UN would sanction, were it not for the US?

Err...does your "tyrannical states wouldn't have it" comment apply to the US, also?... or just states that the New York Times writers are apt to describe with the adjective "tyrannical"?

[joshcryer]

87. Of course my statement applies to the US also.

But you be all defense like that.

[joshcryer]

12. At least 10%, we know Benghazi has protests 100k strong.

I don't recall anyone questioning the proportion of the protesters in Egypt of the total population. It just shows how you're treating the situations differently. Between Egypt and Libya the people acting are, proportionately, almost certainly number higher.

[DutchLiberal]

68. You can lend my tinfoil hat if you want to. Looks like you need it...

Because we all know what a good guy Qaddafi is and how he has no choice but to murder his own people, who have finally rebelled after 42 years of brutal repression? :eyes: :puke:

[malaise]

7. That's been my question for a long time

You're a government if you're Western backed and a regime if you're not.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

[joshcryer]

14. It's clear that Bahrain and Yemen have not escalated to the point that Libya reached 3 weeks ago.

Bahrain and Yemen have yet to have defections in the military and in the police refusing to fire on protesters, and indications are that the protests are going much like Egypt, only with more violence, and the military is apparently reluctant to side with the protesters. In Libya that was not the case, as the military quickly sided with them when they were ordered to kill them outright, some officers were executed for not following orders.

The situations are not yet comparable, so to call hypocrisy is a bit early yet.

[Posteritatis]

16. I'm confused and disoriented by a rational response in this thread

Don't you know you're supposed to just emote? ;)

[robdogbucky]

22. "...going much like Egypt,..."

Huh?

Did you not see the Saudi Arabians send thousand of troops across the causeway the other day, the same troops that massacred the protestors in Pearl Square?

Bloody crackdown

"On Wednesday, Bahraini forces used tanks and helicopters to drive protesters off the streets in the capital, clearing the camp in Pearl Roundabout that had become a symbol of the demonstrations. At least six people, including three policemen, were killed and more than 1,000 others injured in clashes that ensued.

Amnesty International denounced the crackdown saying that the government was "very clearly trying to suppress any kind of freedom of speech".

Nicolas Beger, Amnesty's EU representative, said the security forces were using live ammunition against peaceful demonstrators and had occupied the capital's main hospital, effectively preventing those injured in the crackdown from getting medical help. He said medical staff had also been targeted...

...Hundreds of Saudi-led troops entered Bahrain on Monday as part of a Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) initiative to help protect government facilities there. The crackdown drew international criticism, with Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, warning that Bahrain and its GCC allies were "on the wrong track"...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201131733318735470.html#


There was no outside force massacring Egyptians at any time.

Not at all like Egypt. Yemen either



Yemen declares 'state of emergency'

President announces state of emergency after dozens are killed in a crackdown on anti-government protests.

Ali Abdullah Saleh, the Yemeni president, has declared a nationwide state of emergency, after a violent crackdown on anti-government protests killed at least 41 people, and left scores more wounded, in the capital Sanaa.

Saleh said on Friday that the decision to impose the state of emergency was made by the country's national security council, but there was no immediate indication of how long it would last.

"The national security council announces a state of emergency across Yemen, and a curfew is set upon
armed people in all Yemeni provinces. And the security forces with the army will take responsibility for
stability," he said.

He also expressed "sorrow for what happened today in university square"...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011318115434957754.html#


These are much, much more violent than Egypt.

Tunisia and Egypt uprisings have the ruling families panicked throughout the region.

Will we support this network of corrupt families?



rdb

[joshcryer]

26. "only much more violent"

I love the selective quoting.

Yes outside forces are bad, but where are the militaries siding with the protesters? In Yemen snipers shot at protesters. When that was ordered in Libya they refused and were executed.

There's also a sectarian element going on in Yemen.

Somehow Libya is an anomaly and the entire east of Libya (and two very large western cities) went against Gaddafi in the first week. We're talking at the minimum 30% of the population was represented by those cities (of course an entire city is unlikely to be entirely anti-Gaddafi).

[robdogbucky]

17. List of oil countries by production

"This is a list of countries by oil production mostly based on CIA World Factbook data.<1>

Note that oil production refers to barrels of crude oil extracted each day from drilling operations. This should not be confused with oil supply, which often refers to market availability of multiple types of petroleum and non-petroleum fuels (such as natural gas and bio-ethanol), as well as refinery gains and extraction from man-made petroleum reserves."

2 Saudi Arabia 9,764,000 2009

3 United States 9,056,000 2009

10 Iraq 2,420,000 2009

12 Algeria 2,180,000 2008

13 Venezuela 2,175,000 2008

18 Libya 1,550,000 2008

28 Egypt 630,600 2008

36 Yemen 300,100 2008

46 Japan 133,100 2008

52 Tunisia 86,930 2008

62 Bahrain 48,520 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

The columns to the right represent bbl/day and date of latest information.

I just pulled those of current interest. Russia is #1. Mexico is #8.

May help nswer some questions.



rdb

[tabatha]

21. It is NOT about oil.

It is about the evil of Gaddafi.

[robdogbucky]

25. And Abdullah Saleh and Sheik Kahled?

What about them?

Or haven't you noticed?


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011318115434957754.html#

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201131823554586194.html#


FYI, these are the tyrants currently massacring pro-democracy demonstrators in Yemen and Bahrain respectively.

Did you see where these two rank on the oil producers?


Not about oil?


Happy reading!

[joshcryer]

27. You still don't get that this shit was happening in Libya three weeks ago.

:puke:

People are easy to ignore history.

[robdogbucky]

42. And Yemen was happening since Feb. 20

What the fuck is your problem?

Can't you read?

Yemen's 'days of rage'

What are the risks of a political void in this volatile country?

Inside Story Last Modified: 20 Feb 2011 15:08 GMT

On Saturday, Yemeni riot police shot dead a protester and injured at least five as thousands gathered in the capital Sanaa for a ninth day of protests. The demonstrations followed Yemen's "day of rage" on Friday in which at least six people were killed in clashes between riot police and protestors.

The protests continued even as Ali Abdullah Saleh, the Yemeni president, promised not to seek re-election when his term comes to an end in 2013. Saleh also pledged not to hand power to his son.

But could he survive the unrest this time around? And what are the risks of a political void in volatile Yemen?

Inside Story, with presenter Divya Gopalan, discusses with: Sheikh Mohammed Abu-Lohom, a senior member of the ruling party in Yemen; Zaki Chehab, the editor-in-chief of Arabs today, an online news website; and Abdul Razak Saleh, a Yemeni-born political and human rights activist.

This episode of Inside Story aired from Saturday, February 19, 2011.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/insidestory/2011/02/20112209231603539.html#

Fucking yo-yo, give me a break!


Did you read the fucking date?

I've got better things to do with my time.



ESAD

[joshcryer]

49. Yemen, 1 person killed on Feb 16, 3 by the Feb 18, 4 by Feb 21, 5 by Feb 25.

7 by March 10. 10 by March 11. 15 by March 17.

So from Feb 16 to March 17, an entire month, 15 people died.

March 18 another 40 were killed. March 18 alone had more killings than the entire month preceding. That's cause for concern.

But is it escalated to Libya's level? Hardly. A joke. A ridiculous joke. That's less violent than Egypt was (almost 700 deaths in a same period of time).

[joshcryer]

50. Libya, Feb 16, 1 killed. Feb 17-20, minimum 332 killed. In three fucking days.

So spare me the ignorance and diminishing equivalence that is attempted here. It disgusts me. :puke:

[tabatha]

28. Did you watch Richard Engel on the Rachel Maddow show tonight.

I suggest you do.

[robdogbucky]

43. Why? n/t

[inna]

48. it's about the evil of american imperialism.

fixed that for ya.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco]

24. Because a five front war would be a bit of a stretch. nt

[joshcryer]

29. To be clear, the UN is who initiated actions in Libya. Until the US refuses to act on a UN...

...resolution to help Bahrain or Yemen, I think this is extremely premature mudslinging.

[meow mix]

31. mob mentality, good luck trying to talk sense to them

not to mention the circumstances being entirely different in each case, but thats not going to interst them either. not when theres drama to be made.

[pampango]

30. They should push the UN to invoke its "responsibility to protect" civilians wherever it can.

The US should not act unilaterally. In this case, the UK, France and the Arab League pushed for the use of force before the US backed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect

In April 2006, the United Nations Security Council reaffirmed the provisions of paragraphs 138 and 139 in resolution (S/RES/1674), thereby formalizing their support for the norm. The next major advancement in RtoP came in January 2009, when UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon released a report called Implementing the Responsibility to Protect. This report argued for the implementation of RtoP and outlined the three principles of RtoP.

1. Principle One stresses that States have the primary responsibility to protect their populations from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity (mass atrocities).

2. Principle Two addresses the commitment of the international community to provide assistance to States in building capacity to protect their populations from mass atrocities and to assisting those, which are under stress before crises and conflicts break out.

3. Principle Three focuses on the responsibility of international community to take timely and decisive action to prevent and halt mass atrocities when a State is manifestly failing to protect its populations.

Threshold for military interventions

According to the International Commission for Intervention and State Sovereignty (ICISS) Report in 2001, any form of a military intervention initiated under the premise of responsibility to protect must fulfill the following six criteria in order to be justified as an extraordinary measure of intervention:

1. Just Cause
2. Right Intention
3. Final Resort
4. Legitimate Authority
5. Proportional Means
6. Reasonable Prospect

I am glad that the UN adopted a "Responsibility to Protect". It represents the ideals of the UN at its best. While it may be logistically impossible to apply it everywhere we would like simultaneously, it's good that they are beginning to live up to the spirit of R2P.

[BOHICA12]

33. Pan Am 103 ......nothing else to say.

[Nevernose]

34. And I think MORE relevant:

What about Burma? There's an actual genocide going on there, being conducted by a military dictatorship. Those fuckers make Gadaffi look like Mother Teresa by comparison. So where's the military intervention for them?

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Does Burma have oil? n/t

[Rage for Order]

39. To be fair, the UN did issue a statement deploring the actions by the Burmese junta

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2007/10/11/un-burma.html

The United Nations Security Council issued its first rebuke of Burma's military regime on Thursday in a statement deploring the violent crackdown on pro-democracy protesters last month.

The Security Council had been debating issuing the statement since last week, but was stalled during Wednesday's negotiations on the wording of previous draft statements concerning the release of political prisoners and detainees.

The statement also urged junta leaders to prepare for a "genuine dialogue" with opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi, a Nobel Peace laureate who has been under house arrest for 12 of the past 18 years without trial.

Following his visit to Burma last week, UN special envoy Ibrahim Gambari warned the country's military rulers that the crackdown could have "serious international repercussions."



That's some serious stuff there!

:eyes:

[HEyHEY]

53. Burma has rebels in the country, with an army

They will take care of it on their own eventually, and are likely to win. We can re-evaluate then.

[DutchLiberal]

70. "We can't act against a genocidal dictator before we have acted against ALL genocidal dictators"

Er... right. How does that work in practice?

What a bunch of bullshit. Why are people on DU so eager to protect Quadaffi?

[Hugabear]

72. There's that damned straw man again

Since when does pointing out hypocrisy mean that we're "supporting Quadaffi"?

It's a fair question. The Burma genocide isn't something that happened a few years ago, it's going on NOW. Yet you don't hear ANYBODY seriously talking about taking military action to protect their people.

[DutchLiberal]

76. It's not 'a legitimate question'. It's a very, VERY lame and OLD false dilemma...

Only used by kooky 19th century-thinking isolationists, who would rather watch the Libyan people DIE, than reconsider their outdated and useless pacifist principles that will get you nowhere in the REAL world.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Good question. We already have 6,000 troops in Bahrain. Which side are we backing?

[Turborama]

45. Let me ask you a straight question. Do you support Gaddafi?

I notice you have always been skeptical and asked a few times (once to me http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4754881#4755467">which I answered) about how many "rebels" there are and how many Libyans actually support them, and now this OP.

So, simple question. Do you support Gaddafi, yes or no?

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

51. No

.

:hi:

[Turborama]

59. Good

Glad to hear it.

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

61. Wheels within wheels

There in an important difference between Libya and Tunisia & Egypt - their tribal system. With over 70 tribes it difficult to know who is supporting what there. Current feeling is that this will finish with Libya being divided into at least 3 different new states. Chances are that when Gadaffi has gone civil war will persist. I have a feeling that in their behind the scenes dealings with the current "council" that may be one of the issues which the US wants to avoid. I think it probable that when Gadaffi has gone a new civil war will start.

Not the least of the problems there will revolve not just on who gets the main oil reserves but also who gets the control the $150 billion sovereign reserves. Said might be an animal but he is highly respected in connection with the way in which that fund has been managed. That's effectively frozen for the time being.

Like I said different situation here.

I don't support what are effectively dynastic monarchies anywhere - not in Libya and least of all in Saudi which is a different subject.

[Turborama]

64. Said is highly respected by who?

BTW The oil minister is holding a press conference right now. Begging oil corporations to send their staff back. He's also saying that there won't be any open bidding for any of the Security Council countries who abstained on the resolution vote. They'll just get some good deals, instead.

Libya's transition to a democracy will not be a smooth one, but it is sorely desired by a lot of the people who have been living in Gaddafi's brutal penal colony for the past 40+ years.

[dipsydoodle]

65. The financial community

whose sole concern obviously is stability with those markets. There were live interview / news items on TV here on the subject roundabout the the onset of the problems out there. They all conceded it to be a very well managed fund.

[Turborama]

66. And who respects the financial community these days?

Have you seen Inside Job yet?

If not, it's available online. A link is in this OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=624911

[dipsydoodle]

73. So don't you attach any credibility to Bloomberg News at all ?

I'm not saying it was them that did the interviews but this was on one specific subject only - the Libyan sovereign wealth fund which from the views expressed is where it now not in spite of Saif Gadaffi but due to Saif Gadaffi.

[Turborama]

78. "The Financial Community" respect Said Gaddafi and my response this time is... So what?

I'm sure there were financiers who respected Hitler's handling of Germany's economy. And?

[David__77]

56. Are you now or have you even been a member of the Communist Party?

Questions are sometimes not just questions, but political tools.

[Turborama]

58. And sometimes they're just asked out of genuine curiosity about where someone you know stands.

That was a pathetic attempt to make me look like McCarthy.

Sometimes it's better to just keep one's nose out of other people's conversations and avoid looking like a tool.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[David__77]

74. Oh please. If it was a private conversation, then keep it private.

It was perfectly clear what you were doing, which explains the hypersensitive, reaction.

[Turborama]

79. It's clear you tried to make it into something it wasn't. Look at the subsequent conversation above.

Seems to me your reaction was the hypersensitive one, with a false and ridiculous accusation of me behaving like Joe McCarthy, no less.


As I said, sometimes it's better to just keep one's nose out of other people's conversations and avoid looking like a tool.

[HEyHEY]

52. Thousands killed vrs a dozen killed.

[joshcryer]

54. This would be correct, I was mistaken about Bahrain upthread. Libya lost more people in one day...

...than Bahrain and Yemen combined totals for the last two months.

[CommonSensePLZ]

62. It's still excessive and untolerable

Shooting unarmed people just for disagreeing.

[joshcryer]

63. Yeah, but I don't recall much outrage over Libya and calls for intervention back then.

The people "calling hypocrisy" for lack of intervention in this case now are not actually serious, they wouldn't want any sort of intervention as far as I can tell. Personally I wish the planet had a proper United Nations that condemned such actions unanimously and took action to stop it, but such is not possible in our current global capitalist environment (states, with no exception, need to exterminate anyone who isn't for the status quo).

[KharmaTrain]

67. Different Countries...Different Battles...Different Relationship

The Libyan revolution is one that saw a good number of the Libyan military mutiny that made up the core of the "rebel" army. We saw a disolving of the diplomatic core. This is a civil war and is more like a coup-de-etat than what we saw in Egypt or Tunisia. The country is spread out and so is the fighting...thus the military involvement or at least how its viewed.

Yemen is more troubling as this country has always been a cauldron of strife and the government does not have full control of the country. It's turning into another Somalia and we could get sucked in if there's a rise in piracy in the key Gulf of Aden as a lot of our oil flows through that area. We have more at stake with Yemen than we do in Libya.

Bahrain is another situation...one that is turning sectarian as Shiite are rising up against the Sunni monarchy. The situation got bad enough to bring in the Saudis who view Bahrain as a province. The other night I saw a report on BBC that showed the Saudi King addressing his country and he was nervous...giving more money not only to social programs (the breads and circuses) but also to beef up the "religious police" who are more like a clandestine Wahabi army. If this revolution stays religious it could spread to Iraq and draw Iran and Saudi Arabia into a collision course and guess who gets dragged in then.

The common thread in all these uprisings is the desire of the people for a change...at least from the generation of autocrats who have repressed them.

[Shagbark Hickory]

75. Give it some time. They'll be next I'm sure.

[DutchLiberal]

77. 3,000 deaths in one month; people asking for our intervention; terrorist leader...

Need I go on? Or will you admit that no factual, realistic answer will change your hatred for your own country/government?

[dipsydoodle]

85. I can only assume you're on something

Maybe time to get the prescription revised.

[Catherina]

83. Yemen's ambassador to the UN just resigned in protest over violence against protesters

We will do nothing even if Saleh slaughters thousands.

Libya intervention was orchestrated by the neocons whom I now suspect of having been very busy over the last few years.


It's a thoughtful question leading to unsettling answers.

[onenote]

88. it looks like the revolution in Yemen is on the verge of succeeding

The military leadership apparently is turning against the government.

[joshcryer]

89. Oh, like Libya did 3 weeks ago?

[JVS]

90. Bahrain's unrest is considered to have been stirred up by Iran.