Does one have the right to use violence in self defense against a bully?

[Very_Boring_Name]

Inspired by this (I highly recommend you watch the video accompanied with the story): http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-cincinnati/bully-s-attack-back-fires-video

The purpose of this thread is due to the fact that I'm shocked at how many people have said the victim's response was not appropriate, and I want to gauge how many people feel that way.

[Drale]

1. I don't like using violence

but as someone who was bullied a lot, I can tell you bullies only respond to one thing and that is violence.

[GatesofPunk]

2. I second this

When those who can actually stop the bullies turn a blind eye, the only thing you can do is use violence. Whether the bullying be physical or psychological, it is your right to fight back.

[jacquelope]

3. +1000 n/t

.

[Warpy]

4. Exactly, especially when they're children being enabled by adults

who want to look the other way.

Giving a bully a bloody nose is the only thing that will get him to turn his attention elsewhere.

[Very_Boring_Name]

41. The parents are definately enablers too

The mom of the skinny kid said yesterday that he should apologize for "putting us through this". I bet you the bully told her some SOB story and she believed him, despite video evidence to the contrary.

[Warpy]

54. "Not MY speshul snowflayke!"

Yeah, parents either don't want to believe the kid is acting rotten or they were bullies themselves and don't see anything wrong with it, which is why schools need to step in.

When they don't, that bully is going to get hurt. That little prick got off lucky. The first bully I exploded on got put into the hospital for a while.

[slackmaster]

34. I also endorse Drale's response

As someone who was bullied in my yoot.

[Ken Burch]

5. It's a tough one.

You don't want to encourage kids to lower themselves to being like the bullies, but you also don't want to effectively take the side of the bullies by being too "pure" about what the kids can do in response.

It still goes back to schools dropping the ball on stopping the bullying cycle-something that involves not only personally confronting bullies, but breaking the cycle of abuse the bully may be embroiled in at home.

[GodlessBiker]

9. Does the analysis change if the bully and the victim are adults?

[Ken Burch]

25. As an adult, you throw the bully in jail, too

If the bully has kids, you take them away and make sure he doesn't ever have contact with them again. In that way, you STILL work to break the cycle.

[arcane1]

10. Sadly, it happens after school hours too :(

Not much a kid can do in that case but fight back :/

[Ken Burch]

27. Probably not.

Still, parents need to be involved enough to know when to step in.

[Common Sense Party]

6. Hell, yes.

Of course it was appropriate. Bullies don't understand reasoning, diplomacy, negotiation, or appeals to authority.

Unfortunately, not every kid is going to be able to or willing to fight back.

That's when other anti-bully kids should step in, if possible.

[GodlessBiker]

7. You shouldn't restrict it to bullying. Does one have the right to use violence against any ...

physical attack? Assault, rape? Must the victim just take it and go to the authorities thereafter? I don't think so.

[KansDem]

8. I was never bullied, per se, but was teased from time to time

Never reacted violently, but some 45 years later I can think of a few "constant teasers" who I would have liked to have cold-cocked.

[socialist_n_TN]

15. There's a theory of graduated response in ...........

situations involving intimidation/bullying. You DO NOT escalate above what's being used against you. If it's verbal, respond verbally. If it's physical, respond physically up to the amount of physicality necessary to protect yourself and others that need protecting.

Now obviously, there's going to be gray areas in ANY general theories. But keeping those guidelines in mind should help.

IOW, you don't break somebody's neck for calling your girlfriend a whore. No matter HOW much she expects you to. :)

[Jmaxfie1]

11. Yes, people should have a right to defend themselves.

Suspending a child for protecting himself makes me sick. What next, we arrest a women for macing her would be rapist.

[taterguy]

12. Stupid question because the person in the video was never truly threatened

Walking away was an option.

A menacing glare was an option.

An action that could have led to a permanent injury was not a wise choice. Can't say how I'd react in that situation and I can't say I really blame the big guy, but I don't cheer what he did.

I guess we see what we want to see in videos.

[Abq_Sarah]

19. After a point

Walking away just enables the bully and encourages him to push it farther and farther. The bully is no victim and he earned every bit of what he received.

[GodlessBiker]

20. You're right, he wasn't threatened; he was attacked. Punched in the face, twice I believe.

If he merely had been threatened with a punch to the face, you might have a point.

[Quixote1818]

24. The fact that he was assaulted several times before he reacted should have

been enough for them not to punish him. I know schools have zero tolerance policies in place and they probably are a good idea in cases where there is no violence from the bully but even after you are punched several times? It doesn't make sense.

[Very_Boring_Name]

50. According to that poster, the bully "wasn't punching him too hard" so retaliation wasn't justified

:crazy:

[Very_Boring_Name]

28. He was never truly threatened? Being punched in the face and the stomach?

also being held by the neck, up against a locker with a bully and his 4 friends standing around you. That's not being threatened?

[taterguy]

47. Not if the kid is half your size and not punching very hard

Like I said, we see what we want to see in the video.

If it reinforces your existing opinion then you see something completely different than what I see.

[Very_Boring_Name]

49. Oh I see, so as long as they dont punch you "too hard" it's not being threatened?

Thanks for clearing that up :rofl::rofl:

[taterguy]

59. I'm very serious. If a kid is too scrawny and weak to hurt you what's the problem?

[arcane1]

64. For one thing, the kid had 4 friends with him

for another thing, we can't tell by the video whether it was an isolated incident involving one kid, or a series of incidents involving all of them.

[slackmaster]

65. The problem is that he's ASSAULTING you

Assault is a crime even if it does no physical harm. I can't tell from the video whether or not those punches caused pain, and I really don't care.

[Downtown Hound]

73. So according to you, the aggressor is actually the victim

If the kid wasn't such a little dumbass and tried to bite off more than he could chew, it never would have happened. Kids need to learn that actions have consequences. Go around thinking you're the shit and can assault people twice your size? Guess what? You're probably going to get your ass kicked or maybe even killed. Better that the little punk learn that now and change his ways. He's lucky it happened in a school.

[EOTE]

104. May I have your address, please?

I'd very much like to replace many of the items in my house and your house seems like a good choice. Don't worry though, I just plan to rob you, not threaten you. And you needn't be concerned, I won't rob you very hard. And I'm guessing you have more stuff than I do anyway. Ass.

[taterguy]

109. 302 East Main Street, Carrboro, NC 27510

[EOTE]

110. I'll be sure to drop by next time I have a hankering for an enchillada. NT

[slackmaster]

35. I saw a kid strike another one in the face with his fist a few seconds into the video

Did we watch the same video?

[Very_Boring_Name]

36. I'm gonna say he never watched the video and thought it would be a good idea to post his opinion

anyways

[walldude]

43. What the fuck are you talking about? The kid got hit TWICE

Wasn't threatened? No he wasn't threatened he was UNDER ATTACK! Not only that but he gave the dumb little shit every chance to walk away. He waited for the kid to make a third move before doing anything about it...

[Riftaxe]

60. You really should watch the video,

the kid was hit 4 times, I highly doubt that even you lack the intelligence and disregard of self preservation to do nothing after getting hit 4 times. Also as has been pointed out, and is audible from the clip the bully is not alone in this confrontation.

I suppose it would satisfy some sick desire to see the large kid run away crying, but as is obvious by the responses in this thread, most people don't share that in common with you.

[taterguy]

77. I watched the video. I just have a different opinion about it than you do

Why is that possibility so difficult to fathom?

PS: I didn't say anything about doing nothing or crying. Those are things your biases injected into my post.

[name not needed]

70. You're right. A punch to the face isn't a real threat.

:wtf:

[jacquelope]

94. Uhm.... all I can say to that is

:banghead: :wtf:

[truebrit71]

102. The person in the video that had been punched in the face a couple of times? THAT person..

..walking away was an option? A menacing glare? Don't make me laugh...the bully was picking on a kid twice his size...do you think he would have stopped with a menacing glare?

Gimme a fucking break...evidenced by the physical attack i would say, yeah, he was truly threatened..

If that was my kid I'd buy him an ice cream and sue the school for suspending him..

[Obamanaut]

13. People who refuse to use violence when it is called for (bullying is such a case)

are destined to lose a lot of their stuff during their lifetime.

[MorningGlow]

14. I was bullied, and my parents always taught me

to "ignore them and they'll go away". Yeah, that worked. :eyes: And I was too stupid or too timid or too insecure (whatever) to figure out that I had to stand up to them. So I just suffered in silence and escaped to a Catholic school, with gratitude, the minute my mother suggested it.

Now I'm a mom of a 7 YO who's highly intelligent and way too polite for his own good (it's a detriment on the playground, let's say). He doesn't expect other children to be the complete assholes they can be. And yes, Mr. MG and I have told him that he has every right to fight back IF someone else starts something. We teach him to first use his words, but if that doesn't work, and the other child gets physical, he should defend himself. And we will back him up if he ends up in the principal's office--but only in matters of self defense.

[Rex]

16. As opposed to sitting there and taking the blows?

If someone causes me pain, I want to give it back to them with interest.

[treestar]

17. So many times we are taught that we have to fight back

That's it doesn't seem fair to put the kid doing this in trouble.

But the rules of self defense would apply. If the bullying is verbal, then verbal response should suffice.

[Quixote1818]

18. Absolutely, but keep in mind that in most cases things won't turn out like that video

kids can get hurt badly and even end up killed. In the case of that video a tiny shrimp of a kid was stupid enough to pick on someone three times his size. It backfired big time! I fought back a couple of times in school when kids were about my size but if they were a lot bigger (90% of the time) I walked away, wrote notes on each incident and talked to the principal. Believe it or not, it went away, but I am sure not in all cases.

[Jmaxfie1]

21. The body slammed kid got what was coming to him...

He punched the big kid in the face, the big kid smashed him. Hopefully that kid will think twice before he puts his hands on someone else.

[ChazII]

55. Thank you for this bit of common sense. n/t

[jacquelope]

95. +1000 n/t

.

[MrSlayer]

22. Of course.

Give them a little bit of what they're asking for. They'll usually leave you alone after that.

[themadstork]

23. only as a last resort and only if appropriate force is used

The kid in the video did go too far, though I'm not exactly sad for the bully or anything. All the bigger kid had to do was restrain the bully as he initially did and threaten him with more violence (such as pinning him to the ground) if he continued to attack. Once the defender is no longer under threat of violence they should back off. The body slam was not warranted.

[Quixote1818]

26. When I first saw the body slam I thought that kid could end up dead

That was one hell of a body slam into hard cement. I agree with your reasoning.

[killbotfactory]

33. The kid went too far in retaliating

But I also don't expect anybody, much less a kid, to behave 100% rationally when taking a punches to the face.

[socialist_n_TN]

40. Right. That's the problem with any sort of graduated .......

response. It's in the eye of the beholder as to whether the response was appropriate or not.

Now as to this particular vid and the body slam, I personally think that it was justified under the circumstances. The bully kept trying to punch the big guy. Even though he was being pushed away, he was STILL trying to hit his victim. He only stopped when he WAS body slammed. If the victim had hit or kicked the bully AFTER the body slam when he was out on his feet (or his back as it were), THAT would have been an overreaction.

[Very_Boring_Name]

44. Plus I think if the kid being bullied had responded just by punching, it would have become an

all out brawl of punches, likely with the bullies friends stepping in to help. Body slamming the bully basically disabled him right away and prevented further escalation, so I think it was appropriate aswell.

[Pushed To The Left]

90. I agree. The larger kid immediately walked away once he knew the aggressor was no longer able to

assault him.

[backscatter712]

78. No he didn't

The bullying little shit had it coming.

[arcane1]

45. I don't have enough info to know if he went too far

That would depend on how many other incidents preceded this one.

[Xithras]

79. Disagree.

Violence is evil, and the use of violence in anger is never the answer, but you may have to defend yourself from time to time. If you must resort to violence, you should do so in a way that is so overwhelming that your attacker would never even CONSIDER striking you again.

A timid response merely invites more violence. "He barely beat me." "He got lucky." "I'll get him next time." Fighting is wrong, but if you must fight, you should win decisively. Leave your opponent with NO doubt that any repeat of the violence will merely result in him getting injured again.

[socialist_n_TN]

84. Agree.

nm

[themadstork]

86. Well the meaning of "no longer under threat of violence" changes with the situation

And others have made convincing arguments that simply restraining the bully wasn't enough. Regardless I don't think he should have gone right into the body slam, which IMO is the real offense. Used it too quickly. Maybe simply restraining him would or wouldn't have been enough, but he should have restrained him, warned him of more drastic violence, and given his attacker the chance to back down. An attack as severe as a body slam onto concrete is for me a bit much in proportion to the cruel, hurtful, but not possibly spine-snapping punches the other kid was throwing.

Of course this all changes if the bully was threatening his life, or implying that he was going to use a weapon, or something.

If a guy is punching me in the stomach repeatedly and I snap his neck and kill him in retaliation, that's outside the realm of "self-defense," I think.

Edit - However I recognize that the realm of ethically justifiable violence is not always coextensive with the realm of violence that my angry irrational self may nevertheless enact. I'm just talking about what a person could do and feel 100% justified in doing. There's another level of violence that is "understandable" but not necessarily 100% justifiable. If one wants to, for purposes of intimidation, severely hurt someone and ensure that they are never threatened again, I'd argue that that falls within this realm of understandable but not necessarily justifiable violence.

[socialist_n_TN]

91. It's all part of graduated response and...........

as I said in an above post, there's ALWAYS a lot of gray in graduated response. It's an OPINION after all AND the "appropriate" response is in the eye of the beholder.

JUST FROM WHAT I SAW IN THIS VID, I still think that the body slam was justified response. The guy was getting hit over and over and the guy was NOT stopping. The body slam stopped him and he didn't do ANYTHING ELSE TO THE BULLY AFTER HE STOPPED HIM. That was appropriate response in my book.

Now would I have done things differently? Probably because I've had DECADES of training, but this kid obviously too young to have had a lot of training. IT APPEARS that he did the best he could under the circumstances.

[Maine-ah]

98. agreed that he may have gone a little far in his defense.

but, also keep in mind, that these are children who don't generally think before they act sometimes.

I'm for defending ones self equal to the attack received. Verbal attacks = verbal defense. Physical attacks, try to walk away, if not possible then defend physically.

I'm small. 4'11" 100lbs. I was jumped by a girl twice my size when I was in high school, I can't even remember why at this point. My adrenaline kicked in and I threw her over my head, got up and walked away. I got detention for it, and instead of suspending her, they put her in detention with me.

[Canuckistanian]

29. Yes, but don't post it on Youtube n/t

[Very_Boring_Name]

32. It was the bully's friend who recorded it

I'd assume he posted the video online aswell.

[killbotfactory]

30. If no one lifts a finger to protect people from being bullied, what other choice do they have?

Unless we want to send a message that violence is only tolerated by those doing the bullying.

[Jmaxfie1]

37. I followed this page to another link that featured a news item on the incident.

It said the kid had been repeatedly bullied. I agree with you, since the school was unwilling or unable to stop the bullying, the other kid took matters into his own hands. Maybe he shouldn't have body slammed the kid, but I'll bet good money that kid never raises his hands to the bullied student again.

[slackmaster]

31. The moment the skinny guy threw the first punch, the portly kid was justified in using violence

No question about it. I thought the larger kid was very patient and forgiving. It took quite a bit to provoke him to defend himself physically. I have no problem with him throwing the other kid on the ground.

[walldude]

38. Hell yeah, the kid gave him every opportunity to cut it out..

he stood there and let the kid hit him twice, and then even waited for the third one to come before he had had enough.

The dumb little shit got just what he deserved.

[flvegan]

39. Yes. 1,000 times yes.

But, only if an appropriate justification exists. I don't approve of violence, but if you have no alternative then you have no choice.

[droidamus2]

42. If physically attacked you have a right to protect yourself

I was never a fighter myself but what i have heard from those that were if you get in a fight there are no rules and you fight to win otherwise you are looking to get hurt. Once a person goes over the line from being non-violent to say they should 'be under control' is a lot to ask for. I know one of the reasons I didn't want to fight is that when it got to that point a really wanted to hurt the other kid bad and I knew that would get me in a lot of trouble. In this case I would be interested in knowing how many times this little pipsqueak pulled this BS. A lot of times when there is a size mismatch like this the littler guy is being backed up by his bigger friends and that is why he doesn't worry about his victim striking back. People say just walk away but if it happens at any time and any place every day you can't 'walk away' from it it doesn't go away so at some point if the powers that be won't do anything about it you only choice is to show the other person you won't take it anymore and that it could be detrimental to their health to keep it up.

[TNLib]

46. for protecting yourself but hopefully nothing that could lead to a fatality

Violence is generally not the answer but sometimes it's the only means to protect yourself.

[backscatter712]

48. Of course he does.

The kid went through day-after-day-after-day-after-day of humiliations and physical assaults. Of course he has the right to use violence. Nothing else works. The teachers clearly weren't doing diddly fucking shit to protect him and maintain a safe learning environment. He had to take matters in his own hands, and I applaud him for doing so.

[fishwax]

72. "day-after-day -after-day-after-day of humiliations and physical assaults" -- where's that info?

I've seen several threads and articles about this now, here and at other boards, but the only evidence supporting the suggestion that this was anything other than an isolated incident was a paraphrased anonymous facebook poster who claimed to know the older boy.

I'm not saying what you've said isn't true, I'm just curious where that info comes from.

[backscatter712]

74. It's not like such cases of serial harassment are uncommon.

Look at the string of suicides of gay kids and other kids who were relentlessly harassed for years until they killed themselves.

And there's my story - I got bullied repeatedly when I was a kid in school. This shit happens all the time, so I have no reason to doubt this kid's story when I get told he was bullied relentlessly over months or years.

[fishwax]

76. I'm not saying it doesn't happen -- of course it does, and I've seen it myself

But it doesn't follow that this is an example of that, and the only evidence I had seen, as I said, was a paraphrase from a random, unnamed facebooker.

I wouldn't doubt the kid's story either, if in fact that was his story--I just hadn't seen anything to indicate that it was.

But now I've read this article in the Daily Telegraph, where his father says he's been bullied for years ...

[pitohui]

51. depends on who "one" is

there was a classic study, i think it was called "women who killed," which showed that a large number of women in the prison system at that time for murder had killed in self -defense while being beaten or raped by their husbands/boyfriends or shortly thereafter

women at that time and probably even today have very little legal right to self-defense if the wrong prosecutor takes a dislike to you...apparently it's more ladylike to lay down and die

it's also my understanding that in "zero tolerance" schools, there is no right to self-defense, the victim will be suspended/expelled/punished the same as the bully, which can be life-changing if it results in expulsion & being re-routed to some "alternative" school

our society may be the bully as it seems to dislike women and children having the nerve not to tolerate being attacked...


i don't click on links or watch videos, try telling me what happened in words, people can lose an infinite amt of time watching video images (and just loading them too) -- i'm sympathetic but I can read fast, i have to watch video at a snails crawl and i just don't do it

[backscatter712]

52. The little shit had it coming. n/t

[derby378]

53. Don't start the fight - fucking FINISH it

Guy once tried to start a fight with me at school - I got bullied a lot. He slapped me upside the head a couple of times. I simply kicked him in the balls until he doubled over and started hobbling along, then I walked away.

I can't say I'm proud of what I did, but you do what you have to do, and my legs were a lot stronger than my arms.

[AndyTiedye]

56. Yes

[L0oniX]

57. As a holder of a CWP if anyone makes me fear for my life I am going to shoot them!

That's is a CWP use of gun in defense rule here in Florida.

[Marr]

58. Bullies never turn out to be worth a shit anyway.

They don't just grow out of it. The bullies I knew as children have grown into larger versions of the same people. I don't see anything wrong with what that victimized kid did.

[Jmaxfie1]

66. Exactly, school bullies are pretty likely to grow up and end up using violence against their wife ..

and kids. If someone grows up realizing their is no consequences for usually violence why would they stop? That big kid may have saved a lot of people a lot of pain down the road.

[cliffordu]

61. Yep. Stomp a bully senseless once and your life will never be the same.

Empowerment on a personal scale in the absolute.

[slackmaster]

67. That's a fact!

:hi:

[backwoodsbob]

62. taught my step kid to never start anything

but if it started to end it however he needed.

Why should kids take a beating from a bully and not fight back?

[fishwax]

63. I won't say that violence is *never* justified, but I'm not ready to celebrate the kid just yet

A few caveats: we don't really know if the older kid is being bullied. It's clear he's being attacked, but that's not the same as being bullied. The assumption that I've seen throughout the various discussions and news stories about this has been that this was a reaction to bullying, but there hasn't really been any evidence to that effect. So not really knowing what the older kid has been through in the past, all we can do is speculate.

That said, though, the older kid is much bigger than the other kid, and the difference, developmentally, between a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old is substantial. He could have neutralized the threat to himself without body-slamming the kid face-first in the concrete. I think it's ridiculous that his suspension was apparently five times longer than the other kid's suspension, and the 12-year-old got, well, if not what he deserved, at least what he should have reasonably expected. But I'm not sure that a high school sophomore body-slamming a seventh grader half his size--even when the seventh grader starts it--warrants an "attaboy."

[Very_Boring_Name]

75. I'm just going on what other posters in this thread have said, but apparently it was an ongoing prob

problem, that skinny kid picking on the larger one, and apparently the larger kid was developmentally challenged

[fishwax]

81. that does seem to be the case

at least about him being bullied--I'm not sure about the developmentally challenged part. I've since come across an article in the Daily Telegraph where the father talks about him being picked on for years. Before that article, though, I'd just seen stories that claimed that and it was difficult to tell if that was a claim being made by people in the know or if it was simply an assumption people were making. I haven't seen stories mention that he's developmentally challenged, though I did see an article about the event on an autism website.

At any rate, I hope the twerpy kid learned something valuable from this.

[ecstatic]

106. That's kind of where I'm at too

We don't know the full story yet. It could be that they were goofing off and the older kid was having a bad day and decided he didn't feel up to it. The difference in size is striking so that's why I'm not fully ready to believe the narrative that's been placed around the video.

[Downtown Hound]

68. I always laugh at yo yo's that say the best way to deal with bullies is walking away

That may work if you're an adult on the street and you will likely never see your potential adversary again, but in school, you're just going to have deal with that bully tomorrow. And that bully is now going to know that you are afraid, and he's going to be all the more encouraged.

I stood up to a bully once in the eighth grade. Got a few good punches on him, tackled him, and on the ground we exchanged blows until both of us were battered and bloody. And even though I got a 5 day suspension from school (which was really more a vacation, since I spent most of it lying around playing my Sega Genesis) and walked away from that fight with a nose gushing blood, I was never bullied again. I fought a good fight against a boy that was a year older than me and had a tough reputation, and I got respect from the school for it.

Sometimes, bullies just need a good ass kicking. And to anybody that says a child should just go and tell the teacher, I would just say that apparently you want the kid being bullied to endure years of people calling him "pussy" and "nark." Bullying can do just as much damage as physical abuse, and in some cases even more because the children enduring it have to hide their scars.

So with all this being said, let me just say that watching that boy pick up that punk ass little bitch and body slam him absolutely made me light up with glee! I hate bullies and I always have.

[Jmaxfie1]

71. "So with all this being said, let me just say that watching that boy pick up that punk ass..."

"little bitch and body slam him absolutely made me light up with glee! I hate bullies and I always have."

My thoughts, exactly! Well said.

[backscatter712]

82. Or the nitwits who say "Ignore them and they're go away!"

What nonsense!

[CommonSensePLZ]

69. Ok, who said no? Hands! /nt

[Ohio Joe]

80. I voted yes - nt

[fittosurvive]

83. Bully or not, everyone has the right to defend themselves against an aggressor.

Accordingly, the use of violence is permissible if it is required to ensure a successful defense.

[notesdev]

85. The overall least violent solution

is to beat the fucking crap out of the bully, so much that he decides bullying is not a good life choice. That way you prevent the violence that would be done to you again and again, as well as violence that would be done by the bully to others.

[Jmaxfie1]

87. I think his possible future children and wife would agree with your post. n/t

[elehhhhna]

88. Deitrich Bonehoeffer, pastor who resisted the nazis, said YES.

Makes a stunning arguement for it in "Ethics"

[guitar man]

89. Yes

Nobody has the right to assault you and once they do you're under no obligation to put your assailant's well being above your own. One piece of advice from an old brawler.... if you knock 'em down, finish 'em on the ground, don't let him get back up ;)

[HEyHEY]

92. Shit yeah. These are kids in school, they're not trying to free India

Hit back.

[Luciferous]

93. lol

[HughBeaumont]

96. The problem here is consequences.

For all the years I endured in that shit redneck prison of a school, I would have loved to have retaliated and not get into trouble.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't have been the case at all, and I knew that as well as I could breathe.

Smallish kids have to use weapons. All the (insert martial arts here) a smallish kid takes up isn't going to matter against a 6'3" guy the size of Brian Urlacher with even a modicum of fighting skills. Anyone who thinks bullies can't also defend themselves is delusional; they wouldn't be bullying in the first place if they couldn't back their shit up.

And anyone who thinks bullying will stop if you beat one up is also delusional. If there's one thing predators cannot and will not accept, it's knowing they aren't THE Alpha.

[TheKentuckian]

108. My mileage varied quite a bit from yours.

Never once have I seen a bully get even stood up to and keep up their bullshit, much less one who is taken down a few pegs. In fact, they usually mellow straight the fuck out before someone else beats that ass for them.

All through growing up I dealt with this issue and firm confrontation and good as they give is the best medicine.

[old mark]

97. Certainly!...nt

[WinkyDink]

99. I'm not sure. I mean, I would want to, personally, but then you have Columbine at the spectrum's

end.

[WilliamPitt]

100. Yes

[truebrit71]

101. Yes, as last resort. If authority figures won't step in, take care of business yourself...

..and by that I mean, if bullied again, not to go out and look for the bully first..

[devils chaplain]

103. Always stand up to bullies, preferably non-violently. But if that's what it takes... n/t

[neverforget]

105. I was bullied in 4th grade and then again in 8th grade. I was a small and shy kid

at the time. Both bullies (physically larger than me) started as verbal bullying but then it turned physical. When it turned physical, I fought back. I won those fights by hitting them in the stomach a few times.

[sabrina 1]

107. Bullies rarely learn the rule of cause and effect.

This one got a good lesson on what can happen when you initiate violence. If he isn't stupid, he will think twice before he does it again, and that may save him from an even worse fate.

He clearly learned somewhere that he was free to behave in whatever way he wanted to including using violence for kicks. Without consequences. This time there were consequences.

Good for the other kid for just doing what was needed and walking away. He is a far superior human being.

[timtom]

111. If a perp is apprehended in the act of committing a crime

is it right to arrest him?

We all need to understand that actions have consequences.

Someone dies in Afghanistan/Iraq. Oops! Ya gotta wonder, what the hell was he doing over there?

(Oh, yeah...I voted "Yes" on the poll)

[Biker13]

112. Bullies Hate Being Bullied...

[blueamy66]

113. Yep

Kick their fucking ass...that's the only "thing" that they understand

[Glassunion]

114. I put a kid in the hospital once. I'd do it again.

Bullies revel in the fear they create. They get off on it. To the bully, the fear and apprehension they create is their release, their drug if you will. They get off of the power they have over others and will never stop.

If a bully targets you, they consider you their bitch. To do whatever they tell you, when they tell you. You must live at their beck and call or suffer pain, either physical or mental.

I was bullied a lot growing up. It stopped one day. I was was being tormented by a bully and his friends. Every day he would either beat me up or humiliate me. Every day. Day in and day out. I could never walk away, he would follow. He knew where I lived, where I waited for the bus. Everything. Don't even give me that shit about telling a teacher. That always makes it worse.

One day I snapped. He snuck up behind me and rammed my head into a wall. When I pulled my hand away from my head I saw blood. He was standing in front of me laughing and saying something to humiliate me in front of his friends. I planted my right foot against the wall and drew a punch starting at my foot and working all the power I had in my body into his face. I felt bone crunch under my fist, I watched all clarity slip from his eyes as he fell unconscious to the floor. I lunged at one of his friends who was coming at me, tackling him to the ground biting his shoulder. I screamed and cried as I bit shirt and flesh from his arm. He also screamed. Two of the others that were bullying me, peeled me off of the second guy. I choked one with my left hand as I kicked and thrashed at the second.

My head was bleeding, my mouth was full of someone else's blood. I was screaming and howling. I was an animal. An animal that they made. I was thrown to the ground and kicked several times. I did not feel any of it. I don't remember much after that. But there is one thing that held true. He never bullied me again. None of them did.

I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

[TorchTheWitch]

115. are you talking about the law or personal opinion?

And what level of violence are you talking about?

This poll is far too vague.

Yes, you have a right under the law to protect yourself from attack. The issue gets complicated as you don't have the right to protect yourself any way you see fit, and there has to be a reasonable threat.

According to the law you have the right to protect yourself violently in a situation where there is reasonably no other alternative such as leaving. As an example, if you're sitting in the driver's seat of your car with the engine running and someone punches you through the open window you don't have the right to get out of your car and beat them up because you have the reasonable alternative in this situation to leave. Of course specific circumstances can alter even this scenario.

You also only have the right to protect yourself with enough force to stop the attack/get away. As an example, if someone punches you, you don't have the right to retaliate using excessive force such as beating the attacker, stabbing them, shooting them, etc. And of course specific circumstances can alter any scenario.

Thankfully, the law looks at every single case separately and specifically.

Using violence to protect yourself is always going to be a slippery slope. Better to use it only when absolutely necessary and sparingly.