So, Bill Maher was correct

[rpannier]

In 2010, on his show Bill Maher said to Democrats who were thinking on not voting, "There's a difference between a disappointing friend and a deadly enemy."

I guess he is correct.

[Joey Liberal]

1. That's for sure. nt

[CakeGrrl]

2. He was correct from the jump, and people (as they often do) learn the hard way. n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Tell it to Julius Ceasar

Et tu brute?

In short, sometimes they become one and the same. The repeated offering of some that Americans should take what appears to be the lesser of two evils and thank God for it is something I reject. What we are seeing now in our government is the same face with two masks and two sets of speechwriters. We need real change and change is never painless.

Cheers!

[demwing]

48. Et tu, Obama?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harut-sassounian/et-tu-obama-letter-from-a_b_192134.html

[peacebird]

4. when is anyone going to post on our disappointing friend being to blame?

Because (while i have always voted in each election, and voted for dems) the dems have not exactly behaved in a manner that earned my vote. The dems frequently (think Rahm E) slur and demean the progressive side of the party.
But it is not just *my* dismay the party need fear - it is the disgust of my son and his friends. They worked their *sses off volunteering to get Obama elected, and they are TOTALLY turned off at this point.
Just saying....

[rpannier]

33. As I've posted to others

What was wrong with Sen Feingold, Rep John Hall (NY), Gov Strickland, the majority of the Minnesota state legislature and many of legislators in WI?
Is Ohio, Kentucky, Alabama and Ohio what we want?
People like Strickland may not have been 95%+, but I'd rather be a bit disappointed than stuck with Kasich.
That's the point. We didn't just lose jack asses like Bobby Bright. We lost a lot of good people as well.

edited to spell Alabama correctly.

[Enthusiast]

34. While I was deeply disappointed with Obama

on several critical issues it didn't stop me from voting against Kasich. Midterm elections traditionally don't have high participation.

[DutchLiberal]

5. 'Indefinite detention' is not disappointing. It's a human rights violation!

It's BUSH-policy that Obama continues. Like the extraordinary rendition. Like keeping Guantanamo Bay open. Like holding on to Bush's unconstitutional powers to declare you or me or anyone 'enemy combatants' and have us locked up for eternity without a trial or even a shred of evidence.

[RufusTFirefly]

8. Human rights, you say? Geez. Everybody has to have a pony.

:sarcasm:

[rpannier]

23. And I don't disagree

But what do those issues have to do with Governor's races, State Legislature races and other state level races/propositions?

[jp11]

44. People can be demoralized and feel the system is rigged, doesn't work and

that their vote won't matter. Having one politician on a large scale 'prove' them right in that thought, their own metrics, can be enough. These people COULD be turned off of voting by something as simple as their mayor doing something they disagree with or find objectionable, etc.

When/if you expect things to change or your voice, will of the people, majority to do something and they seem incapable, unwilling, complacent, weak etc it could turn you off to bothering with it. You can make yourself believe that there is nothing that can be done, someone else will fix it, or believe it won't affect you.

That's the best I can come up with, people live their lives absent knowledge of what is going on they'd rather just bemoan the slights then deal with them, griping or thinking 'what are you going to do'. They are 'defeated' and won't rise up until they have nothing left to cling to/lose or finally have their eyes opened to how unfair things are getting with large moves, case in point would be Wisconsin.

Our system is screwed up and change will take time but people, I think, expect more from elections. When we vote we expect our side/people to do the job if/when they don't/can't that is major blow to people because they just 'gave' their side/politician what they think they needed, they got them elected or put in the majority now they should 'fix it'. To have to continue calling politicians, writing letters, signing petitions, protesting, etc is somewhat like doing the politician's job for them and beyond what most eligible voters are willing to do or think they should do.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Rarely wrong, or even imperceptive, about anything.

Near as I can tell.

So sharp he's spooky.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and on and on. Yes, he was right.

No question.

If you are disappointed with Obama, then remember Bush. If you think Bush and Obama are one and the same, then go back two whole years and think again.

Wisconsin on a national scale. That's where some of the ultra stubborn liberals want us to go: it's either the hard left or give up. Not for me.

[Fumesucker]

11. You say "liberal" like it's a bad word..

We could do with more liberal policies and more liberal politicians, it would be a huge boon for the country.

[Buzz Clik]

18. Liberal isn't a bad word any more than conservative is a bad word.

But, there are a lot of liberals who are blind and have no concept of reality. I am a Democrat, I am a liberal, but I will not flush the future of this country simply because our Democratic leaders are not following to the letter every progressive concept on the table today.

[Fumesucker]

27. Eh, I'd be happy if they could just hum the damn tune..

Instead we get Republican lite corporatists.

Clue: It's not liberals that are flushing the future of this country, that would be the conservative Republicans and their fellow travelers in the Democratic party.

Some people would far rather woo one Reagan Democrat away from the Republicans than keep four Democrats who have been faithful all along in the Democratic party..

[Buzz Clik]

39. That's not the problem at DU.

We had hundreds of DUers screaming about Obama "breaking his promise" about DADT before he even took office. When he finally scrapped it, those screaming simply moved on to another complaint.

If Obama had the patient support of all Democrats -- who applied extreme pressure to the Dems in Congress -- we'd be a lot happier today.

[Enthusiast]

35. Following the to the letter

every progressive concept? You aren't even in the ball park. Just more, "We just want our pony!" bullshit.

NO ONE on Wall Street has been prosecuted.

War criminals have not even been investigated.

The war in Afghanistan has escalated and it is now the longest war in U.S. history and appears to be as useless as Vietnam.

Obama signed a FICA holiday handing fiscal hawks ( on social needs only) a huge gift talking point.

Obama signed an extension of the Bush tax cuts going against THE very central theme of his campaign. Refusing to sign was a winning issue even if unemployment extensions were ended and middle class taxes returned to pre-Bush era levels.

I won't go on. There are simply too many to list.

[Buzz Clik]

40. You illustrate nicely the contrast between us.

We all have a laundry list of our favorite, pet issues. They cannot be addressed simultaneously, and some cannot be addressed at all. He'd make far better progress with support of the Dems in Congress, but they are too busy covering their asses. And we blame Obama?

Not me.

Be happy in your misery, but I'm focusing on the incredible progress that Obama has made and I recognize it will all be lost if we don't support him.

[Little Star]

42. Some people like to eat a shit sandwich as long as there is..

potato chips on the side. Other people hate shit sandwiches with or with out potato chips. The shit sandwich is harder to take when served up by Democrats even if they added a pickle along with the chips. People are starving out here and need much more than a few potato chips served with their shit sandwich.

There have been no big FDR type achievements. Not only that, there hasn't been any FDR type leadership or fight for what we really need.

Glad you are happy with your chips.

[Enthusiast]

43. Thank you for

expressing my sentiments so accurately.

[Buzz Clik]

46. Classic DU. You epitomize why I will not spend one calorie more arguing with liberals.

My time and energy will be spent supporting our Democrats and preparing to win as much as possible in the next election.

You can wallow in the shit sandwich as much as you like. Funny thing about that sandwich -- it was just a sandwich until people like you took a big shit on it. But that's your sandwich, not mine. Enjoy. See you after the elections.

[hootinholler]

47. Someone told me you like shit sandwiches

I had to point out in all fairness you don't seem to like bread.

The DLC is no more, where oh where will you go?

-Hoot

[Little Star]

51. It is not I who took a shit on the sandwich........

It was never 'just' a sandwich. I did not shit on it! It was a shit sandwich served up by our democratic party! You are the one who has chosen to wallow in the shit sandwich 'they' have served up, not me.

I loathe that they dared do this to us. You will spend your energy supporting the shit servers and that's your choice (seems kinda naive to me though).

Personally, I'll let them know just how friggin unacceptable their shit sandwich is! They will think we love shit sandwiches if we all respond with full agreement and no complaints like you have chosen to do. Your way will insure we will always just keep getting more shit sandwiches from them.

That said, I have always been a liberal dem, I always vote and I've alway voted democrat (see we really are on the same side).

See 'you' after the elections when every sandwich will still be made of shit thanks to those who refuse to tell them to serve up something worth our support!

[Motown_Johnny]

9. and in 2000 he said over and over again that Bush and Gore were the same

and he endlessly preached that everyone should vote for Nader.

He even called them Gush and Bore.

The guy is kinda funny at times but he is not as politically astute as he pretends to be.

[Kahuna]

10. At least Maher did learn a huge lesson and repent. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

13. the same way a drunk driver preaches sobriety after an accident

He needs to publicly and repeatedly admit his mistake while he pleads for others to not make the same mistake before I will take him seriously.

Although, at times, he does make me laugh.

[xxqqqzme]

14. No, he is not.

He needs better research. He was dumping Social Security in the budget and whining about farm subsidies going to family farms. Most farm subsidies are gobbled up by agribusiness. Didn't I read last week that michelle bachman gobbled up over $250,000? When someone says farmer, she isn't the picture I get.

[unblock]

15. VERY few people are as politically astute as they pretend to be.

deep political strategy is HARD.

and in maher's defense, it's especially challenging when your career depends on finding punchlines in superficial analysis.

[al_liberal]

12. Pardon me but...

While I have voted D in every election since I turned 18, I voted for change in 2008. What I got was more of the same. Then I voted in 2010 for Democrats that allowed their "message" to be swamped by charges of socialism, government takeover, and higher taxes (even though we're paying some of the lowest rates in our history). Where is the banner carrier for our party? Where are the voices rising up to counter these lies with the truth? Where is the leadership in our party shouting down all of the bullshit the rw can sling at us? Take away FN, take away the biased media, where was our President during all of this? Where is he now? Where is he while the meme is that we're broke? Where is the Democratic party to counter any of the shit that has been slung our way in the latest dogfight? Maybe if we did something to dispel the lies we'd garner the votes.

[Enthusiast]

37. Yes. Where are the fucking voices?

The President would have been heard. He could have done an interview every single day telling the American people that their taxes are at the lowest rate in many decades. But he didn't.

This has been capitulation before the fact. It is preemptive capitulation. No one could be THAT weak. No fucking way.

And where are the rest of the Democrats? If you watch most of them on TV they won't even refute a lying Republican sitting right next to them. Where they should by literally busting their opponent in the fucking mouth they meekly don't even respond to the outrageous lies.

I have NEVER been more disappointed in my government and the Democratic Party and I am Vietnam era.

[StarsInHerHair]

55. a thousand times yes

nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. OTOH maybe the Democratic Party should have run candidates that attract votes.

Rather than the usual "not as bad" crew.

[Marr]

29. They did. Obama's more liberal rhetoric sold big.

He certainly didn't run as the Wall Street stooge he's turned out to be.

[rpannier]

32. Everyone who lost did not attract enough votes. But...

What was wrong with Sen. Feingold (WI), Rep. John Hall (NY), Gov Strickland (OH), and other more liberal/progressive candidates?
Where was the turnout for the people we agree with?

[provis99]

17. tell it to the Independents.

They're the ones who didn't turn out to vote.

[n2doc]

19. I find the double standard fascinating

The Republican party MUST bend over backwards to placate the tea party types, even though they cost them control of the senate. Yet the progressive wing of the democratic party is told, "shut up and vote, no matter how much the main party moves to the right, or else".

[rhett o rick]

20. I look at it differently. The farther Pres Obama shifts to the right the more he squeezes the Repub

liCons out of the picture. If Obama can capture the 60% of the middle he doesnt need the left. As the RepubliCons shift right they get smaller and smaller. But dont count them out. All they have to do is have KKKarl Rove do a hatchet job on Pres Obama, like he did to McCain when he ran against Bush and then have Jeb Bush come riding in on a white horse to save the RepubliCon party. Never underestimate the BCF.

[rpannier]

31. You don't have to shut up and vote

But the fact is a lot of good progressive lost at the State and local level.
Explain the problem with former Democratic Governor of Ohio.
How about Feingold losing in Wisconsin. In what ways did Feingold move to the right?
What was wrong with Walker's opponent in Wisconsin?
Florida? The Republican was a crook and still won.
Congressman Hall in NY? He lost.

A lot of solid liberal Dems lost and were replaced by crazy.

[Enthusiast]

38. I'll explain it to you.

It was intentional. These actions were done to suppress Democratic Party and left leaning independent voter turn out. Without Republicans controlling at least one house Obama and the Democrats don't have 'cover' for following the corporate agenda.

[jenmito]

21. Too bad Ed Schultz doesn't feel the same way. n/t

[pot]

24. Who cares about Ed Schultz...

Who cares what Ed Schultz thinks? People seem to think he is some guy who is a big deal. It must be easy to blame one pundit for all of the problems.

[jenmito]

26. He has many listeners. Who's blaming one pundit for all of he problems??

Schultz tells people not to vote in '10 (at least he said HE'S not going to vote in '10) then goes to WI to stand with the protesters against the governor HE helped put into office.

[pot]

22. Is this another "it's all the progressives fault!" thread?

Getting sick of this meme, because it was the independents who didn't vote for Democrats, not progressives. Liberals were roughly 20-22% of the vote in 2008 AND 2010. What changed was in 2008 "Moderates" made up 44% of the electorate and "Conservatives" made up 34% of the electorate. Moderates voted in favor of Obama 60/40 in 2008. In 2010, Moderates made up only 38% of the electorate to Conservatives 42%, and Democrats only took 55% of Moderates. And black voter turnout was DOWN FORTY percent.

Young people didn't come out to vote and black voter turnout was down forty percent. How is that progressives fault? That wasn't the progressives fault, it is not the progressives jobs to get voters excited, that is the politicians job. Clearly, they did not do a good enough job of convincing the people to vote them back in. And the polling data shows, progressives showed up to vote in the same amounts they did in 2010, those are the facts. Not one person has been able to prove that progressives stayed home.

So if you want to blame someone, blame independents/moderates and conservatives for voting Republicans in. And blame OFA for doing a horrible job at getting out of the vote. OFA finally sent out emails a few days before the election, they should have used that 10 million email list much better then they did. OFA has basically dissappeared off the face of the Earth since Obama took office.

[Fumesucker]

28. Welcome to DU..

Nice post and good points.

[rpannier]

30. Actually it's not

Largely because I am one of the dissatisfied liberals.

Many people who voted in 08, didn't vote in 2010. That includes African-Americans, moderate and conservative Dems, people in Unions and progressives/liberals.

There should to be an acknowledgement that what is running the states of Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, etc are much worse than people (including me) imagined they would be.

Let's be honest, Ohio had a good governor and Feingold was a solid liberal Senator and Florida the Republicans were running a criminal.
The fact that we lost, regardless of who did vot and who didn't vote, has been a disaster for Unions, the poor, etc and there should be an acknowledgement of it.

I voted in some, but not all races in Illinois. We almost lost the Governor's mansion. Had we done so, Illinois would have had a crazy governor (ala Walker) w/o the state legislature to back him up.

[Enthusiast]

41. We also should not forget

the role Citizens United played.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leeroysphitz]

36. But the dems lackluster performance has nothing to do with it, right?

They are just poor victims of a fickle electorate throwing a childish tantrum, right?

I suppose that the Dems in Washington didn't do ANYTHING that could have caused enough legitimate DISGUST with them to turn off the electorate. An electorate that was hoping for something better than the government mandated corporate welfare we laughingly refer to as health care reform.

Fuck em. If they want to win they should be kissing our ASSES as hard as they can instead of what they have been doing to them for years.

My vote must be earned and I don't give a shit who the pukes are running.

Deal with it.

[demwing]

50. But Obama is entitled to our vote

dotcha think?

Nice speaches, handsome guy, swell logo...


:sarcasm:

[krispos42]

45. And yet...

...Democrats voted. It was the independents that Democratic candidates lost.

When Repubes run things, they are not "disappointing friends" to their base because they ram through emotional legislation and then have their media machine promote the hell out of it. When Democrats run things, they compromise effectiveness for a handful of Blue Dog DINOs, then have to listen to the Republican media machine tell the world how the Dems were such fierce friends of socialism and "deadly enemies" to the will of the public. After, of course, Corporate America creates, defines, and promotes "the will of the people" and create the appropriate astroturf support logistics.


Sometimes, to me, the difference between the party leadership of the GOP and the Dems is just a question of speed, not direction, as both parties embrace Corporate America.

[demwing]

49. And to the Publicans, Obama has been

a disappointing enemy. Where is the Democratis Party's deadly friend?

[mmonk]

52. Somewhat. He also misses some things as well.

[lonestarnot]

53. Shit! Can't R!

:kick:

[rpannier]

54. That's okay

I have wanted to rec numerous posts only to find out that its past the 24 hour mark
Thanks :toast: