How was Bill Maher tonight?

[PlanetBev]

Worth watching? After the events of this week in Wisconsin, I'm not sure if I can face more politics tonight. :crazy:

[napi21]

1. I give him a C. He had some real idiot Pub on and she was

aggrivating. His "new Rules" were pretty good though.

[madmax]

2. That she was! Typical teabagger. nt

[HighLowRoller87]

7. Well all I know is Libyans like Rachel Maddow are destroying this country. LMFAO!!

Those darn Libyans!!! LOLOL!!

[Initech]

8. His anti-Islamic sentiment is really pissing me off too.

[inademv]

10. How so? What about it did you disagree with?

[Babel_17]

14. Maybe this?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bill-mahar-to-rep-ellison-koran-is-a-hate-filled-holy-book/

[ReggieVeggie]

15. with respect, that is not a good source of info

[Babel_17]

17. I don't know about the source/web site

but I think the quotes and video clip speak for themselves.

If you watch the video you'll see that quotes are not taken out of context.

[ReggieVeggie]

20. granted

but The Blaze is a wingnut blog

And I agree that Maher says some really stupid things sometimes.

[inademv]

21. With respect, he didn't get a chance to read any quotes

And Sam Harris is well known for ripping Islam and all religions for their collective bullshit.

(snip)

"It is the same whether or not you forwarn them , they will have no faith" (2:6).

"God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15).

A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24).

They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85).

"God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89).

"They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits " (2:90).

"God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98).

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book , and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105).

"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).

"Those to whom We have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122).

" shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).

"The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142).

"Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154).

"But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162).

(snip)

http://www.truthdig.com/images/diguploads/verses.html

And that is less than 1/4 of the relevant quotes.

[CrawlingChaos]

24. GMAFB - the Bible is WAY worse

There is far more violent rhetoric in the Bible than the Koran -- this is just irrational vilification of Muslims!

Sam Harris is a hate-mongering bigot with an agenda. He openly advocates for war, torture and racial profiling of Arabs. The anti-religion stuff is just a smokescreen for his real target, Muslims, and he frankly states that he thinks Islam is far worse than other religions. This man is vile and I'm constantly shocked at how many people quote him here at DU.

[inademv]

28. People quote him because he is correct

And I can tell from reading your critique of him that you've neither listened to his talks/debates or read any of his books. He points out time and time again that the books are both filled with hateful vile things. He also draws the important distinction between the shit that Christians and Catholics get away with in this day and age (pointing out that the pope actively denounces contraception and is only singularly removed from the proliferation of HIV in Africa) and what Muslims are doing to each other and others.

Get over yourself and look at the world in an objective light instead of that of a point of view that is dogmatically "liberal".

[CrawlingChaos]

30. I have listened to and read his racist garbage

The caricature he draws of Muslims is one of almost sub-human hate-driven savages. He's not advocating profiling and torture of Christians, is he? Or Jews? And yet who's doing the majority of killing in this world? Muslims are statistically the LEAST likely ethnic group to commit a terrorist act in the U.S. and yet this deceitful bigot would have you believe exactly the opposite. Why don't you try a little objectivity yourself.

[inademv]

33. Couple of problems with your response

You're apparently using a definition of racist that doesn't fit in the dictionary definition.

How is he advocating torture? Give me some quotes.

>Muslims are statistically the LEAST likely ethnic group to commit a terrorist act in the U.S
Can you say the same for the world at large? No, you can't. Why don't you consider places outside of your own country before you try to cast characterizations yourself.

As for the reasoning behind his statements, Sam is always good about giving clear concise reasoning for his observations. There are things beyond terrorist attacks that are detestable in religious culture, such as child genital mutilation, compulsory veiling of women, deity commanded hate of specific groups, and xenophobic commands of slaughter.

[CrawlingChaos]

35. since you seem to need help with this

Imagine if I were to say the types of things Sam Harris says about Muslims, only I said them about Jews. I'd be denounced as a bigot so fast it would make your head spin. I'm aware that Harris metes out some very gentle, toothless criticism toward Jews as well, but he holds them to an entirely different standard than Muslims.

As for advocating torture, here you go: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/in-defense-of-torture_b_8993.html

I said Muslims are the least likely to commit terrorist acts in the U.S. because that's what the McCarthy-esque hearings are about. The U.S. and it's allies are also the largest purveyors of violence in the world, if you really want to expand the scope of the argument.

Sam Harris deals in hateful stereotypes and sophistry, designed to instill fear and paranoia. His message leads us away from peace and mutual understanding, and towards war and oppression.

[inademv]

38. Not true by the standard of reality

If you were to attributed to Jews the same things that Sam attributes to Muslims then you would not be accurate. The reason Islam is in a different tier is because it hasn't had its teeth pulled by society the same way that other religions have. Other religions do not organize fatwas against cartoonists and authors, and they do not preach the divine policy of death to apostates.

To torture, did you not read his article or do you think that in the scenario he proposed, allowing the device to detonate would be more ethical than using torture on the individual known to have the information needed to stop said attack?

Sam focuses on the development of morality independent of the dogmatic thinking of religion and weighing the quantifiable pros and cons of a given decision while, being a neuro-scientist, finding new and more precise ways of measuring human well-being.

(snip)
Torture need not even impose a significant risk of death or permanent injury on its victims; while the collaterally damaged are, almost by definition, crippled or killed. The ethical divide that seems to be opening up here suggests that those who are willing to drop bombs might want to abduct the nearest and dearest of suspected terrorists--their wives, mothers, and daughters--and torture them as well, assuming anything profitable to our side might come of it. Admittedly, this would be a ghastly result to have reached by logical argument, and we will want to find some way of escaping it. But there seems no question that accidentally torturing an innocent man is better than accidentally blowing him and his children to bits.
(snip)

Now weigh both situations at the end of this passage and try to answer honestly which is preferable.

I don't want to expand the scope of the argument and I don't understand why you're attacking a strawman which has not yet been mentioned in this discussion. King's "hearing" is a farce of the highest level, not because of what it is investigating but because of how they are investigating it. Besides setting an unacceptably large scope for what is to be looked into, the Republicans are not calling witnesses whom can make a substantive contribution to the proceedings. But I digress, King's hearing isn't what we were talking about and I am not talking with any directness about American Muslims for they are currently less damaging to society than the members of the thousands of denominations of Christians. The ONLY reason Sam focuses more on Muslims in his talks is because his focus and field of study is not one that can benefit in any way be being limited to a person's nationality.

Again, your critique leads me to believe that you have not actually read any of his books or listened to a complete talk.

[CrawlingChaos]

39. think about what you're saying

Do you really want to defend torture, like Sam Harris does, using a scenario pulled right out of a cheeseball episode of the TV show "24"? (Antonin Scalia and John Yoo would certainly approve) You do realize that this has never actually happened in the history of ever, and yet it has been used to justify unspeakable acts that should be anathema to us as a society. That we're even having this conversation is disturbing and shows that the dialog has taken a very sinister turn in this country.

And if you think they're aren't radical clerics within Judaism, and that they don't advocate violence, you seriously need to expand your sources of information beyond Sam Harris and his associates.

Why continue to promote these hateful stereotypes by parroting that man's fearmongering rhetoric?

[inademv]

40. You keep using ad homenim

Which certainly doesn't help your position.

So for the hypothetical, being a hypothetical, doesn't have to have actually happened but I like that you decided to take a shit on what was bordering on an intellectual conversation like that. To say that it is justified in a specific situation gives ground on which to find the outward limits of what is not acceptable, to which; do you or do you not agree that it is justified in the scenario presented?


Once again, I didn't say that there weren't elements of Judaism and Christianity that promote violence and I wasn't even using violence as the reason for Islam being exceptional among the three. The religion perpetuates a myriad of deplorable social practices which are a net loss for human well-being.
So prove that you are not as blindly dogmatic as what you're defending: Are child genital mutilation and compulsory veiling good or bad things?

[Pisces]

16. Bill is half Jewish and anti religion period. I don't think the Catholics get the warm and fuzzies

when he jokes about them, or the muslims.

[CrawlingChaos]

25. Bill is extremely pro-Israel and hates Muslims

The anti-religion stuff is a smokescreen. Every single show he finds and excuse to whip up anti-Muslim hysteria. It's not exactly subtle.

[Initech]

29. I saw Religulous a couple of times.

He has some great points in the movie (like when he owned the founder of Exodus International) but he still painted Islam as the be-all-end-all downfall of the world. I don't get it.

[CrawlingChaos]

26. Horribly disrespectful to Keith Ellison

He made fun of him for crying at the anti-Muslim witch trials, then he tells him his religion is based on a hate-filled book and poses a "unique threat".

It's absurd to hear Bill try to distinguish his own Muslim-bashing from Peter King's. Did you notice he tried to laugh the whole thing off at the end by saying "there I go getting in trouble with liberals again". Fuck Bill.

[inademv]

34. He's a comedian for one

so cry me a river for your bruised sensibilities of his joshing a man who got extremely emotional.

Also the threat of radicalized Islamic individuals is not entirely separate from the religion. Individuals who are Muslim and fit the profile of someone who is likely to be heartened by the voice of someone calling for violence.

Islamic terrorist is unique in the same way that Christian terrorism and Jewish terrorism are unique from individuals who do not have a specific dogmatic ideology behind their action.

[CrawlingChaos]

36. ah, the old "he's a comedian" defense

Was it part of a comedy routine when he told Keith Ellison his religion follows a hate-based book and poses a "unique threat"? I must have missed the punchline.

Since you're evidently going to spout the same stereotypes as Bill Maher and Peter King, I guess there's no point in continuing with this.

[inademv]

37. Reading comprehension

I said the joshing about his emotionalness was the joke.

[Cleita]

13. Wasn't she an obnoxious idiot?

Figures though. She loves Michele Bachmann. From one moron to another.

[ohheckyeah]

3. It was okay.

Aggravating female tea bagger on. It wasn't a great show.

[walldude]

6. Dana Loesch.. She's been on before..

She wants Michelle Bachmann for President :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[PlanetBev]

4. Thanks guys

I may skip tonight. A tea-bagger would just send me to bed with elevated blood pressure.

[ohheckyeah]

5. You won't miss anything good...

that's for sure. It was very disappointing, IMO.

[Tx4obama]

9. Shoot! I forgot to watch him tonight ;( n/t

[Blacksheep214]

11. Just STFU Already!!!

This Katy Perry wannabe even had her voice crack in a Valley Girl sort of way.

She also is TEABAGGER who talks when Bill is doing New Rules. That pissed him off.

He needs better choices of guests.

[devilgrrl]

12. Check out Overtime!

http://tinyurl.com/4rwqvso

[fascisthunter]

18. wow.... that wasn't good

[AngryOldDem]

19. Jeebus.

Loesch defending bat-shit craziness. I had to stop watching for fear my head would explode. I'll try to watch the rest of it later.

[devilgrrl]

22. Oh, I know - she's an IDIOT!!!

And then talking over Begala at every opportunity.

[BuelahWitch]

23. Another pretty puppet with a big mouth who can say

"No it's not!" faster than anyone else. Bleah! :puke"

[Fleshdancer]

27. New Rules was great

I recommend watching the last 15 min of the show this time.

[dubyadiprecession]

31. Great show for

us non mouth breathers (sorry governor walker). He made a great point, that if people like what little money teachers in unions make, they should form their own unions. After all, they are the ones being short changed by their own employers.

[Initech]

32. How could he have got wrong that prank call in Wisconsin?

That wasn't David Koch!!! That was a satire news reporter posing as David Koch! Sheesh get your facts right! :eyes: