If George W. Bush was Treating Bradley Manning like this Would the Left Roll Over & Be Silent?

[KoKo]

Worth a Watch! Two of OFA/DLC spokespersons are held "feet to fire" by Ratigan about the HYPOCRICY of the DEM PART in how we went after George W. Bush/Cheney/Rummey..et al, over TORTURE in GITMO....YET we allow our Democratic President to do the SAME THING TO AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!

This is an Excellent Watch! There is a brief MSNBC Commercial at the font but it's well worth the watch for us Democrats who are Horrified at Obama and DOD's actions against an American Citizen who is being Stripped Naked every night and during the day and held WITHOUT BAIL...or RIGHT TO TRIAL...as a DETAINEE...TERRORIST!

PLEASE WATCH THIS!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31510813/#42036376

If George W. Bush was Treating Bradley Manning like this Would Left Roll Over & Be Silent?

[NightWatcher]

1. nope, but it's different now

NOT


I'm sick of it all

[leftstreet]

2. If we HAD a Left in the US, it probably wouldn't be happening

But if you mean 'what passes for the Left' - then no, it would be unacceptable

[Chris_Texas]

3. Left and right are soo last century

[MNBrewer]

4. No, they wouldn't

AND the Republicans would be using the same justifications that we now hear from some Democrats.

[kpete]

5. no

[JoePhilly]

6. Manning is being water boarded?

[donheld]

32. Is waterboarding the only method of torture that's wrong?

[JoePhilly]

45. Which specific form of torture has he received?

[donheld]

56. Um, if you read the OP you'll find out.

I'm thinking you don't want to find out.

[roguevalley]

34. ah, you are too limited in your thinking. Imagine never having a

light off and having it in your face 24/7. imagine standing naked all the time. empathy. its a good thing. And if that is the best one can do to try and defend the indefensible then you already have lost.

[JoePhilly]

46. I simply want to know specific which form of recognized torture he receives.

I have yet to read anything of substance that says he is being tortured.

Given that, some one claiming that Obama is doing the same things Bush did is full of it.

[MNBrewer]

52. Guantanamo?

For example....?

[slay]

39. huh?

are you trying to flamebait people? - look it up on google in 2 seconds and you'll know the answer - then again you DO know the answer already don't you? you purposely asked that question HERE ON DU knowing the answer. not cool bro - not cool at all.

[JoePhilly]

48. I've read lots about it. Lots of folks making claims, but nothing

you can call evidence, or proof.

The OP claims that Obama is doing what Bush did, with zero evidence to back it up. We have evidence of what the Bush administration did, particularly in the area of water boarding.

There is nothing in this situation, at least at this time, which rises anywhere near it.

[MNBrewer]

53. I guess you're right! The Bush administration never tortured Bradley Manning

so it CAN'T be compared.

:sarcasm:

[Solly Mack]

7. No

[Canuckistanian]

8. GOOD QUESTION.

The main point here is that slowly, inch by inch, people are not getting outraged by this any more.

Maybe Shrub was right. It is a "new world" after all.

[xchrom]

9. No - but 'moderate democrats' would.

Just like the 'official pragmatic dems' are and their 'strong' supporters on DU.

[ProSense]

10. No one in that video has

any clue how Manning is being treated. The notion that his treatment is remotely similar to the torture sanctioned by the Bush administration is beyond ludicrous.

[walldude]

11. So you are saying that Manning and his lawyers are lying..

Yet you have no problem posting op-eds as fact.


LMFAO....

[msongs]

13. it's ok as long as it is not similar to the Bush method nt

[ProSense]

14. Hmmm?

"Yet you have no problem posting op-eds as fact."

Op-eds are not fact, they're opinions. Still, are you suggesting that people can't lie in op-ed?

[MNBrewer]

18. so you ARE saying they are lying?

[walldude]

28. No I'm suggesting that you post op-eds as facts

and then come in here and insist that Manning and his lawyer are lying. Seems hypocritical to me.

[MNBrewer]

17. Typical disinformation and distraction

1. Yes, they do. There are reports, if you care enough to read them.
2. No claim in the OP indicated that it was similar, merely that if what is being done were being done by Bush, would the left fight it, or make excuses such as the ones you're making for the Administration.

[ProSense]

22. Typical lack of comprehension

I said no one in the video knows. Also, none of those reports have been confirmed. A credible human rights organization could visit Manning and put an end to the hearsay and speculation, all based on what Mannings lawyer says, not exactly an objective source.

Conflating his treatment with torture and war crimes, as has been done, also detracts from the credibility of the claims.

[_ed_]

36. If the people in the video don't know,

then how the hell can you? You're just defending Obama regardless of the facts. Is Manning's lawyer lying? If so, he can be disbarred.

Reflexive defense of government power = propaganda.

[MNBrewer]

50. ProPaganda has a new spelling now, _ed_

I'll leave it up to you to figure it out ;)

[MNBrewer]

49. 1. thank you for confirming that you were not really responding to the OP

2. Why have no credible human rights organizations been allowed to visit Manning?

3. No one in the video knows? Do you know that George Washington was the first President of the United States?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_ed_]

35. Why?

Nudity was a primary facet of the torture in Abu Gharib. Unless Abu Gharib is okay now too.

Out of curiousity, let's say Obama waterboarded him. How would you defend that?

[MNBrewer]

54. it would be "enhanced hydrotherapy" in that case

For his own good, don't ya know.....

[slay]

40. Is there any excuse you won't make

for the Obama admin?

[AKDavy]

12. I'm seeing attitudes change daily

Someone recently posted that the Left needs the Democratic Party more than the party needs the Left. That statement said it all for me. I can remember when the Democratic Party was the Left, now it's wherever in the political spectrum pragmatism dictates.

More and more, I'm seeing my Democrat friends standing by their principles, while the party drifts amorally to the right. A few have started the "democrat-with-a-little-d" distinction between themselves and the party.

Time will tell, but I predict that 2012 will be a big year from some third party.

[Mojeoux]

15. Not Silent Here at DU!.......................nt

[LooseWilly]

30. A thought crossed my mind recently...

it occurred to me that I might pretend that Elizabeth Warren was a third-party candidate... and I'd just write her in.

No need for a Senate confirmation that way... :+

[FiveGoodMen]

16. No. And that is the horrifying thing.

People will go along with any atrocity if 'their guy' is doing it.

The main effect of Obama's presidency has been to rally Democrats behind war, torture, the shredding of the Bill of Rights, the deliberate destruction of the middle class, ultimately the destruction of anything we would recognize as our country ... for all intents and purposes: treason.

This site is massively infested with those who will gladly eat babies if a Democrat tells them to.

Unforgivable.

And I really do mean, unforgivable.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Fuckin' A!

The insane flexibility of principles is beyond astounding and putrid at fucking best. I won't go as far as unforgivable but I won't forget it.

[Fla_Democrat]

26. It's not the what.. it's the who

If you look at just about every situation in this country today, objectively, you will see that it has been ok if 'our side' does it for a long time now.






:smoke:

[bobbolink]

37. And, again, you forget the very important one.... DESTROYING THE SAFETY NET

...or, more accurately, what precious little is left of it.

Why is it that "progressives" simply cannnot remember POVERTY????

And that is exactly why the programs are being decimated... because they know most of you aren't paying attention to that, and don't really care.

[sudopod]

55. *internet high five* nt

[slay]

42. Finally someone who will speak the truth

"This site is massively infested with those who will gladly eat babies if a Democrat tells them to." - You are 100% correct. I wonder how many are brainwashed, how many really believe the Obama propaganda they post, and how many are PAID (and by whom) to post pro-Obama propaganda here.

[madrchsod]

19. no....

[myrna minx]

20. I'd like to add Solly Mack's "The Use of Solitary Confinement & Nudity"thread to this one.

This is very important.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x617422

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Obama is playing the "I know nothing" Good German part in his defense of torture. Not "the Left".

And, one of those idiots asked "where's Code Pink". Code Pink and other "left" organizations have been speaking out about the disgrace being perpetrated by this administration in this case.

[Moondog]

23. Not a chance.

And the excuses would be about the same.

[Octafish]

25. Absolutely, KoKo.

Wrong is wrong.
And evil is evil.

As Ray McGovern said,
as he was beaten down and removed,
merely for turning his back on power:

"This is America."

[Puregonzo1188]

27. Absolutely not, people are DU would be wildly incensed.

And rightfully so.

[upi402]

29. but..but..but... he's on OUR team!!

:rofl:

[donheld]

33. No

[slay]

38. It amazes me how some people excuse things under Obama that they NEVER would excuse under Bush

like escalating a pointless war. "Oh Obama campaigned on that you stupid hippie" they say. It Still Doesn't Make It Right. Cover-up of the Bush admins war crimes. Indefinite detention in Gitmo. Re-authorizing the patriot act. Tax cuts to billionaires. Need I go on? Because I can.

I think people get all swept up in Obama's personality and get distracted from the fact that he's not a good leader in many ways. "Oh but he's better than a Republican" they say. Well no shit - so is my dead dog - if that's the best argument for Obama is just that he's "better than a republican" we're in big big trouble. I don't see much difference in the Republican world view and Obama's to be honest. :(

[ReggieVeggie]

43. no matter his faults

there are some that will defend him at all costs

[upi402]

44. ^+1,000 A lot of 'hurray for our team' idiocy too

That aggravates me more than RW loons at this point. It has the effect of disenfranchising us when you can only vote for a crazed Conservative, or a Republican running in the wrong damn party.

[Demeter]

47. But my dear, they did!

Repeatedly. Starting with several prominent "liberal" Congress Critters and "journalists", working down to the crazy fundie relations in our family closets, who truly cannot "know better" without their heads exploding.

[KoKo]

51. kick......

[Mimosa]

57. Hell no. n/t

[TorchTheWitch]

58. why does it matter whether or not Manning is a US citizen?

Torture is wrong regardless of who it's being done to.