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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:39 AM
Original message
Arne having to change tune since NCLB is causing 82% of schools to fail....
instead of causing them to be successful. As soon as the students meet a testing goal, the next year they raise the goal. The parents are not clued in that the standards are being raised, so they blame the schools and the teachers, especially the teachers.

I remember in 2003 when Howard Dean made an offhand comment after a rally, and remembered I was even questioning the accuracy of the statement myself until I thought it out. While the Bush administration was claiming it was a way for the schools to succeed, Dean said the opposite.

2003 Howard Dean on NCLB... "every school in America by 2013 will be a failing school."

"The president's ultimate goal," said former Gov. Howard Dean (D-Vt.), one of the Democrats who now harshly attacks NCLB, "is to make the public schools so awful, and starve them of money, just as he's starving all the other social programs, so that people give up on the public schools."


He also said:

Dean criticized President Bush, saying his administration will lower the standards for good schools in New Hampshire, making them more like poorly performing schools in Texas. The Bush administration believes ''the way to help New Hampshire is to make it more like Texas,'' Dean told supporters in Manchester, adding that ''every school in America by 2013 will be a failing school.''

"Every group, including special education kids, has to be at 100 percent to pass the tests,'' Dean said. ''No school system in America can do that. That ensures that every school will be a failing school."


Well, guess what. It's 2011, and already 82% of public schools are failing the standards set by NCLB.

I really am impressed with how Mike Klonsky's Small Talk blog explains how Arne is having to re-triangulate all over the place.

After a decade of NCLB

After a decade of No Child Left Behind
We're approaching 100% "failure"

Arne Duncan said Wednesday, that 82% of all schools could now be labeled as "failing" under NCLB rules. The DOE estimates the number of schools not meeting targets will skyrocket from 37 to 82 percent in 2011 since states have "raised standards" to meet the requirements of the law. Yes, we're truly racing towards the top.

The latest news has forced Duncan to re-triangulate. He has been pushing, so far unsuccessfully, for NCLB re-authorization for the past two years. He still praises NCLB for supposedly "shining a light on achievement gaps among minority and low-income students," but now admits, ""No Child Left Behind is broken" and needs to be fixed.

...."The law is all about test-and-punish. "Fixing" it, could only mean easing the standards or allowing waivers for charter school or other Duncan favorites. But when we first made this point, he labeled us a "proponents of the status quo." Remember?

..."Finally, says Duncan,

"We should get out of the business of labeling schools as failures and create a new law that is fair and flexible, and focused on the schools and students most at risk."


They have been pushing for years to close "failing" schools. Now they are truly in a jam. They have way too many failing schools on their hands, and not even enough charter companies to take over all of them yet. So they back-pedal, I guess.

From MSNBC:

Obama once said he wanted to see 5000 failing schools closed.

President Barack Obama intends to use $5 billion to prod local officials to close failing schools and reopen them with new teachers and principals.

The goal is to turn around 5,000 failing schools in the next five years, Education Secretary Arne Duncan said Monday.


The plan is to beef up funding for the federal school turnaround program, created by the No Child Left Behind law, which gets about $500 million a year. The stimulus legislation boosted funding to $3.5 billion. Obama's budget would add another $1.5 billion by shifting dollars away from traditional formula programs.

Obama doesn't have authority to close and reopen schools himself. That power rests with local school districts and states. But he has an incentive in the economic stimulus law, which requires states to help failing schools improve.


The blogger points out that Arne Duncan once stated he wanted to see 1000 failing schools turned around each year.

From the NYT:

U.S. Effort to Reshape Schools Faces Challenges

Mr. Duncan wants to see 250 schools closed and reconstituted next year. That would mean dismissing thousands of teachers next spring, hiring replacements and opening newly reconstituted schools in fall 2010.

Formal closure is necessary for chronically failing schools, Mr. Duncan said, to reset the learning environment more dramatically than simply tweaking the curriculum and retraining the old staff.

Eventually, he said, he hopes to see 1,000 failing schools turned around each year.

The federal government lacks the authority to close schools, so Mr. Duncan’s first challenge is to persuade scores of local districts to begin school turnarounds that, judging from Chicago’s experience, will anger teachers, administrators, parents and local politicians. Another challenge will be recruiting the high-quality educators crucial to helping reconstituted schools succeed.

Teachers union contracts could be another major hurdle.


Hell, yes, those union contracts could have been a major hurdle, but they are being negated even as I write. No problem. No one standing up and shouting "stop".

One of the major goals was to close 5% every year of the lowest underperforming schools and make them turnarounds.

That's a lot of schools, even the 1000 or 5000 figures previously given for closing won't hit that level.

From 2010:

Under the new NCLB lowest 5% of schools will be punished more harshly...

The WP covered this in March of last year.

The accountability system known as “adequate yearly progress” — the measure of how much progress schools, school districts and states made annually based on a cockamamie formula involving standardized test scores — will end. That’s good. Under AYP, even excellent schools were deemed to be failing.

But another arbitrary accountability system will be put in its place — and the current standardized testing schedule put in place by NCLB will remain. Very bad. The lowest achieving 5 percent of schools in every state will be punished even harder than under NCLB, according to my colleague Nick Anderson, who reported about the Obama plan today.


I like the way the blogger ended his post. Concise and to the point.

NCLB's stated goal is to reach 100% proficiency in reading and math by 2014. But the way things are going, if we stay the course, we should reach 100% failure rate some time within the next three years.

Congratulations are in order, I suppose.


I don't know where Dean got his NCLB figures back in 2003, but he was eerily correct. In 2011 we are at 82% failure...right on track.




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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. too bad Obama doesn't admire Dean as much as he admires Jeb and the mob nt
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. Obama admires Jeb as much as Howard Dean admires Boehner, whom he called "a good Speaker"
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Bill Clinton admires George H.W. Bush's golf game...
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. That OK, he's got RTTT all set up to take over.
Of course it/is being the be all, end all cure for NCLB. Over course it's just NCLB on steroids, but then again when the truth matter to this administration, especially when it came to education.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. You are right. RTTT is not a solution.
The goal is still to close failing schools and privatize them...not fix them.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. That is why I worked my arse off to try to get him elected.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. nclb was a time bomb from the very beginning, & there were people saying so at the time.
it was designed so that every school would become a failing school, & the reason was said "failure" could be used to justify the dismantling of public education.

the fact that the warnings were ignored & that people who obviously understood this touted it as a program to "help the kids" -- that would include the bush admin, the union leadership that signed onto it, and the obama admin -- demonstrates that taking down public ed HAS BEEN THE GAMEPLAN SINCE THIS PIECE OF CRAP WAS ENACTED.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Precisely. WTH here still finds worthy of credit ANYTHING a Republican proposes ? Can there really
be such naifs, such dolts, such gulls left?

Elmer Gantry, the world is your oyster.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. i don't think they were naifs.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
55. I'll tell ya what another time bomb is...
the terrific blowback after their union-busting & getting rid of the dedicated, long-term, professional, career educators who know how to teach and hiring all these newer, much cheaper 'teachers' --the one's who had mere weeks of orientation--

this all will add up to one huge mofo FAIL (yeah, I'll capitalize that)
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Can we PLEASE convince Howard Dean to run for Prez again?
I don't know about you, but every time I see him on TV I agree with what he's saying. I can't say that about anybody else, except maybe Bernie Sanders. I swear, he's the only rational politician in te Country!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. LOVE HOWARD DEAN ....
However, how about drafting Sen. Bernie Sanders who could run on a Dem ticket?

A strong anti-war candidate for VP -- someone like Tom Hayden?

Many dems around who can run on the Dem ticket --

LOVE Howard Dean, but he's pre-branded and pre-defeated by the right wing at this

point so I love him but don't see that idea succeeding -- though I'd back it.

Dean was also defeated by our own DLC -- corporate brigade!!


Sanders is a populist who is more of a FDR candidate, imo -- he knows what's going on

and has constantly told us about it!!

Sanders would attract Dem voters who have long been staying home --

and those who stayed home in 2010 demoralized by what Obama did in trampling universal

health care. See Obama back room deals with Big Pharma and the H/C industry.

Sanders would also draw liberals from the third parties!!


:)





If you didn't know this, please pass it on --

If you did know it, why didn't you tell us?


The Rightwing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
68. There you go! I'd vote for Dean over Obama in heartbeat...
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great Post
Should be required reading for anyone who thinks Obama is still on our side.
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theaocp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. You think they're going to listen?
No way! Their mindset is ENTIRELY based on the hero-worship of Obama, to the exclusion of all else. Fucking sad.
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theaocp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent post, mad
I heard grumblings about this from the successful and affluent districts around Detroit literally years ago, saying their success was unsustainable, since the goalposts kept moving every year. I hope they're finally waking up, but they've got to turn off the Limbaugh and Faux News first. I'm sure Snide-er will be merciful when it comes to letting them control their own destiny, heya?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Well, teachers here and parents also are catching on finally.
When I was still teaching we were not allowed to criticize Jeb's policies. Now Obama is finishing those policies, and it took this long to catch on.

But then there is no one speaking for us, and powerful voices speaking for their side unfortunately.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. "not allowed to criticize.."? Jeez, what kind of country
is this?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. Teachers do what they are told.
Very little free speech.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. Don't forget the 100% mandate. It hits in 2014.
That's the year 100% of our schools will fail.

Anyone who actually believes 100% of our kids can be proficient is delusional.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Who didn't know, seriously, that no discrete group of students can achieve 100% proficiency?
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 07:08 AM by WinkyDink
Students vary ANNUALLY.

THERE IS NO STUDENT GROUP "N" THAT IS TESTED, TAUGHT, AND RE-TESTED TO CHECK IMPROVEMENT!

EACH CLASS OF STUDENTS IS TESTED AND MOVES ON.

SO IMPOSING STATISTICAL PERFECTION ON THE CLASS OF 2013, WHEN THE CLASS OF 2003 COULD BE LESS THAN PERFECT, WAS, IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE A MONEY-GRUBBING CRIMINAL SHAM OF EPIC PROPORTIONS.

TWO WORDS: PRIVATIZATION. "IGNITE!"

And the drive to tie teachers' salaries to this sham? I have no words any more for the stupidity of those who hold this concept dear.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. everybody who read the text of nclb knew. how is it that our legislators,
union leadership, top educators, etc. let it pass?

how is it that this democratic administration didn't shitcan it when they came to power?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The union leaders thought to buy time, perhaps; WI put them wise, finally. Obama? Knows the score.
Arne Duncan proves Obama likes the dismantling. Indeed, the president just called for MORE "education reform" money!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. +100
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. time for you to go arne. i'm sure you'll make out like a bandit
with all the new connections you've made.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. That's for sure.
:hi:
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vicarofrevelwood Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 08:34 AM by vicarofrevelwood
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vicarofrevelwood Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. K&R
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R! //nt
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. If you charter
the lowest performing 5% of public schools each year based upon test score, then the day must come when the lowest achieving 5% must be among the highest achieving 5% and eventually the top fraction of 1% until the last school fails even if has a 100% pass rate. I doubt either Franz Kafka or George Orwell would have ever imagined a thing so strange and cynical.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Shocking and awing!
Wow.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yep sort of like shock and awe without all the live bombs.
At least in my mind. All it took was words and lies.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Exactly.
The definition of "failing" would have to keep getting adjusted. What about this are people not getting? There seems to be an assumption that this process will just magically stop at some point.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. They kept upping the standards.
It was hard to see what they were doing even if you were paying attention.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. Is the final goal of privatization not education
but that corporations teach our children, making it would be easier to indoctrinate them into being good little conservatives?
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
24. Sigh...
RTTT is an accountability movement. Arne Duncan, Michelle Rhee, and the fat cat philanthropists who are driving a stake into the dying heart of public education want someone or something to blame for the 'failure' of the system, so they can destroy our unions, and justify privatization.

Time to stand with the brave activists in Wisconsin, and STOP this assault on public education.

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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm scanning the replies for a certain poster
who has Arnie in his sigline. Nope, don't see him. Oh, well.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Not yet
Coming soon.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. Put a piece of shit policy in place, expect shitty results.
Arne is the biggest loser ever, Obama could replace him with a sockpuppet and instantly education would be doing a million times gooder.
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Sniper Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. I have yet to see...
a study or news report on what this does to teacher morale. We know we can't win. In fact, we've known since NCLB was introduced as it's an obvious ploy to punish teachers, defund schools, and discredit public education. We go in to work every day knowing that nothing we do is good enough, especially for those of us who teach special populations. Did anyone really think we'd be able to shrug this off?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. That was starting before I retired...that feeling.
Like being a good teacher didn't matter.

The right wing has made this into a hateful nation with little compassion.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. When I retired, I asked...
...administrators at my school "When did I become the enemy?" Admins in the district ALL said...when NCLB started...that it's mandate was not possible. I hope that truth is finally, belatedly, dawning on the PTB.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. We need to rid the nation of NCLB -- and Obama and Duncan ... and the whole Obama team -- !!
Love the info on Dean -- thank you for that -- hadn't seen it before!

More Americans should be aware of it --

Let's try to run Sen. Bernie Sanders in 2012 --

with a strong anti-war VP like Tom Hayden -- or any other dem who can run

on a Dem Party ticket!!

We need to get rid of Biden who has been running around for a year now calling

for Israel to attack Iran. Biden says, "Israel would be JUSTIFIED in attacking Iran" -- !!

Biden was already a questionable choice given his assistance in putting Clarence Thomas

on the SC!!


Tons of dems outside of the party who aren't pre-bribed and pre-owned --

We have to stop expecting those dems -- millionaires and multi-millionaires -- to vote

and legislate on behalf of the general welfare!! Won't happen!!



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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
62. If the date of the quote hadn't been included, I wouldn't have know which president Dean was talking
about here:

"The president's ultimate goal," said former Gov. Howard Dean (D-Vt.), one of the Democrats who now harshly attacks NCLB, "is to make the public schools so awful, and starve them of money, just as he's starving all the other social programs, so that people give up on the public schools"

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. Making Money for somebody, though.
And that, unfortunately, is what counts for our lawmakers.

"This almost reads like our business plan." -- F. Peter Jovanovich, chief executive of Pearson Education, a multibillion corporate publisher of tests and education materials, describing President George W Bush's education policies.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Looks like an interesting read...
Heading there soon. It is a business plan, indeed.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. DUer ensho reported about it...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. Forgot to add: ''The Rich Get Richer.''
Capitalism. It's not just for raping planets.

Most important: Thank you for another excellent OP and thread, madfloridian. These BFEE turds want to bring back the Dark Ages.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. "bring back the Dark Ages"....yes, they do.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. ANyone truly surprised? Dean was prescient, but most of us knew that failure was predetermined.
That was their goal in the first place.
An ignorant, uneducated populace provides unlimited fodder for the war machine. The military is the only opportunity left for them.
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
45. An excellent, informative post. Thank you for providing all of that information in one place.
Lou
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
46. We warned you Washington--a long time ago. Didn't care then, don't care now.
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 06:27 PM by MichiganVote
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. k/r
our education "reform" policies are, alas, taking us in the wrong direction--and as others have pointed out, that is largely by design.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. Watching Democrats accept Bush's Business Program
cynically name NCLB (remember the clause that forced schools to allow Military Recruiters to get kids' info from the schools, that's what we call leaving no child behind, safe from a warzone) which the Bush gang and their business associates managed to pass off as an educational program, seriously made me question the IQ levels of the average Politician.

NO ONE should be surprised by this. I am glad I quit teaching because I could not watch what they were about to do to children with this absurd program designed with goals in mind that had nothing to do with education.

There was no way, no way, for this abomination of a mis-labeled 'education program' to succeed. Nor was it meant to.

But in a way, we get what we deserve. I remember the outrage from the left when Bush pushed that program through. But once a Dem President started stupidly promoting, there was virtual silence from the left.

Are we ever going to get to a point where party politics and loyalty DOES NOT take precedence over what is best for this country??

I am disgusted, but in no way am I surprised. It must be really bad for them to have to admit it, and I KNOW it is from my friends who bravely stayed on trying to make it work, but realizing it was the like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

HOWEVER, it wasn't a failure in terms of its real goals. Many Bush friends and family members made millions of dollars from it.

What I want to know is did Obama ever even study what NCLB was all about of does he just do what he's told to do by whoever pulls the strings in this country?

Because you didn't have to be an educator to be horrified by this program. You just needed a relatively normal IQ level, and yet, he and his Dept. of Ed seemed to think it was great and have now ruined yet another generation of American students.

Good going, Dems, at least you beat Bush in making teachers the scapegoats for what was inevitable when you use a business program and pretend it's an education program.

Maybe we'll get back to including educators in anything that has to do with education. Bush's NCLB creators were all Big Business men.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. Well Arne, all I can say is, WE TOLD YOU SO!!! n/t
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guyton Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
50. it's a war on public education
Student performance, teacher salaries and unions aren't really the issues, they're an excuse. Their goal is to destroy public education.

Why? Well ... in my less-than-humble opinion ... what sticks in their craw is ...

- banning school prayer
- teaching evolution
- teaching critical thinking!

And since reality has a left-wing bias, they have to stamp out the thinkers, the questioners, the doubters and replace us all with people that can easily be lied to and manipulated and told to just go shopping after 9/11.

It's no coincidence that so many tea party protest signs are either pre-printed or unbelievably badly written.
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. NCLB treats children cruelly. Children w/disabilities are required to take a test that is beyond
their capabilities. The same with second language learners. Their scores are factored into the whole. I proctored a group of kids with special needs who were testing, and they had modifications: more time, bigger work area. Two little girls were almost in tears because the test was too difficult, and a couple of others were visibly frustrated. Another little boy was happy as a clam just filling in the bubbles perfectly, all wrong, but beautifully filled in. It was heartbreaking to see the frustration of these students, and to watch their egos taking such a hit. The cruelty was very upsetting.

No Child Left Behind is designed to set schools and children up for failure - PERIOD! No more, No less.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Yes, it's the good old "zero tolerance" mindset....punitive and mean-spirited.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
52. ...........
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. One note arne. He has no other tune.
He sings at the pleasure of the corporations. Obama taps his foot in time.
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Michigan-Arizona Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R n/t
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. Someone here at DU said it best...
Schools aren't factories, and shouldn't be run like one.

--------------------------
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
59. NCLB is JOKE just like the guy who brough it out of Texas,,,,
People warned us, over and over, BUT for some reason, the sane people did not listen. NOW this. Get off the efin pot and do something.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. Yeah, leave chronically failing schools alone! They're just fine the way they are.
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 09:37 PM by ClarkUSA
AA and Hispanics can just keep learning from the bottom of the barrel. After all, it's great that the US sucks in achievement levels across the board compared to dozens of other nations. Why should President Obama want American students to do as well as those in China, Korea and India? Damn overachiever!
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. How fair is it to give a mentally disabled child or an English language learner
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 11:03 PM by AnotherMother4Peace
a test that is inappropriate to their skill level. And then how fair is it for their score to be factored into the final score with their classmates. The final class score is then totally skewed, and the result is inaccurate and low.

This is No Child Left Behind: All students of a certain age and grade must take the same test no matter the mitigating circumstances (Language barrier, mental disability). "All children must be given a chance to succeed on the test" Bullshit - it is humiliating for the child, and does nothing but set them up for failure.

EDIT to add: I witnessed this myself - I proctored a test for a group of students who needed the modifications of more time and a larger test area. Neither all the time in the world nor all the space in the world would have helped as they did not have the prerequisite skills to successfully take this test. Most were visibly frustrated. One boy just happily filled in each bubble very carefully, every answer was wrong but the bubbles were very neat. This is unfair to the regular and special education students, and to the English language learners.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. As someone who lives in Korea and has numerous contacts in Japan I have to ask
What do you know about Japanese and Korean education?

And I'd add Finnish Education, since the Fins sit at the top
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Actually, no, the Chinese - not the Finns - sit on top as of the latest PISA survey data.
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 11:32 AM by ClarkUSA
Link: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2035586,00.html

Let's just say that I know enough about the Chinese, Korean and Japanese style of teaching to know why they are such high achievers.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. A few things
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 06:45 PM by rpannier
1. The Chinese score was based on the scores of two cities -- as the article mentions. It's hardly an indicator of the Chinese education system as a whole.

2. Also, I would add, that China does not educate all of its young people, nor do they consider all of them when they discuss education. If you are not Han Chinese getting a good education is very difficult -- which is something the Chinese government acknowledges. In some of the areas in the south (near Vietnam, Laos, etc) there are not enough spaces for all the children.

3. In Korea (and Japan) families spend thousands of dollars a year on math, science, Korean and English academies. Sports, not so much. Our scores are indicative of where society puts its priorities -- education.
And that's largely because of the limited options for people. There are not thousands of Universities and Colleges to send your children. In the third year of Middle School we test the kids. Those that do poorly, or are not that smart, go to the Commercial High Schools and, for most, Universities are out of the question.
It's not just the style of teaching, it's the push by society. In Japan the government forbade elementary schools from giving out homework because the academies give out so much.

on edit: At least you seem to have done research on education that goes beyond "The Test Scores"
Many people I talk to say, "Look at the scores they must be better." without actually looking into the systems themselves.

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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #61
72. The US should follow the lead of China, Korea, and India by investing in education, not gutting it.
If Arne Duncan and other education incompetents were put in charge of education in China, Korea, and India, those countries' education systems would be failing as well.

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. Pres. Obama wants an 11% increase in education funding. Republicans are in favor of "gutting it".
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 12:26 PM by ClarkUSA
Furthermore:

"He has drawn a line at education spending, saying he would not support cuts that reduce money for schools or college tuition."
Link: http://tinyurl.com/4bjv8hz
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
63. Why the Dean Scream had to be created
Edited on Fri Mar-11-11 10:37 PM by RufusTFirefly
Corporate America had to find a way to shove Howard Dean off the national stage. He was making too much sense.


"The president's ultimate goal," said former Gov. Howard Dean (D-Vt.), one of the Democrats who now harshly attacks NCLB, "is to make the public schools so awful, and starve them of money, just as he's starving all the other social programs, so that people give up on the public schools."


So they took a non-incident, the so-called "Dean Scream" and turned it into a scandal almost literally overnight.

This statistic says it all:

"The scream scene was shown an estimated 633 times by cable and broadcast news networks in just four days following the incident, a number that does not include talk shows and local news broadcasts."

Corporate America chooses the President. We don't. In 2004, we came close to getting the vote back. But, once again, it was snatched away.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
65. You would have to be nuts to get a teaching degree at this time.
The degree will be worth nothing before you know it. Who wants to invest the time and money?

I discouraged my children from becoming teachers. It is not a good career choice at this time.

Two of my good friends were severely injured by students in their high school classrooms. (Beyond those two friends, I have only one friend who has taught in high school for a long, long time.) No, thanks. Might as well drive a Speedway race car at that rate.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-11-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
66. I caught onto this way back when my daughter graduated from a high
school that our then mayor, a Republican, listed among the 50 worst in the city. She went on scholarship to a university to which a lot of spoiled rich kids went and graduated Phi Beta Kappa. Rating schools and teachers by test scores tells you a lot about the neighborhood in which the school is located but very little about the quality of the education or teachers in the school.

How many of the schools that score poorly on those tests are located in wealthy areas like Beverly Hills? Not many.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. Sounds like a daughter to be proud of.
I had some really great and talented kids in the very low-income school in which I taught the last few years before retirement.

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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
71. We will see what happens when the upper-middle class schools
are defined as failing. Take my kids' school, for example. It's one of the best in the district because the students mainly come from well-off homes. The parents have the time and money to give to the school, and they support the teachers. As a consequence, many of the best teachers try to teach at our school. The test scores are pretty good, but it's largely a selection effect. Nonetheless, average math and reading scores have gone up about 7% since 2007, and the school scores 7% higher than the state average in reading and 22% higher than the district average in reading, and 4% higher in math than the state average and 17% higher than the district average in math.

And yet the school earned a "no recognition" status. It only met 19 out of 21 AYP goals. The average scores for end of year tests are 77.9% in reading and 85.5% in math. They have hit a plateau. It's simply impossible for all students to be at least average, which is what NCLB asks.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
75. Kickety...
:kick:
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