Did everyone forget about Diebold and the right wing stealing elections?

[revolutionnow45]

It seems that no one talks about this anymore, are we all just accepting that we'll just never know who actually wins elections anymore?

With the fake media and their fake polls, they can create any reality they choose then steal the election to fit their reality.

I don't really believe that people were sick of Dems so they put Repubs back in the House.

I mean the Dems are bad, but not THAT bad.

We are not as stupid as they think we are. no one forgot that it was really Bush that made the mess.

No one really thought that putting those aholes back in office would help anything.

Look at this fascist move they are making on all the unions in every state.

They are behaving as if they stole the elections, having no responsibility to answer to the people.

All our best Dems go down, Feingold, Alan Grayson...I don't believe it.

Do you?

And statewide, Repubs are in control, suddenly all enacting this evil plan.

These elections were stolen and for this purpose.



Wake up DUERS!!- we know they steal elections, why would they stop now?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Ballots are obsolete.

It's feet-on-the-ground, now.

[revolutionnow45]

5. I agree, at this point in time, time to storm the capitol

But after that, we should probably get back to elections that are honest, hand counted paper ballots counted and posted at the precinct.

At this point, even if you vote on an accuvote, they are sent through a central tabulator.

If you pay for a recount, they will put 5% of the ballots through the same machines and process. That.is.it.

Until we fix this, democracy.is.fucked!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Open voting?

Pro: The math works out

Con: Payola

[kster]

20. Transparent Ballot Box, for 500 - 800 Paper Ballots, with Deposit Trap and Counter

Easy to use, sturdy and stackable. Lockable with two individual locks. Deposit trap is operated using a lever which is coupled with the counter. Can be safely stored in the reusable protective box.

[Yellow Horse]

26. Unrealistic solution give the realities of today... & this is the prime reason nothing has been done

Realistically, a requirement hand counted paper ballots in transparent ballot boxes is NOT going to pass in the foreseeable future. But we COULD possibly get something light years ahead of the completely paperless electronic touchscreens that a quarter of the US voters are still using. That would be a big step toward transparent, audited elections.

Yes, we could take that step. In fact we could have taken it years ago but unfortunately a small vociferous group of hand-counted paper people have seen fit to split our movement, denigrate fellow election reform activists and congresspeople who are trying to help, and basically helped play right into KKKarl Rove's hands by sending the whole election reform issue to the "fringe."

To some, any step taken, any bill passed, has to be PERFECT (in their eyes) or no reform at all should be allowed. Sadly some of these folks have egos as big as the former World Trade Center and brains as tiny as a neutrino.

That said, there are a few sensible organizations quietly working for realistic, achievable solutions -- and these organizations deserve everyone's support both in terms of donations and help. The local and state wide groups especially need this right now.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. Open voting?

You get a t-shirt and a picture after voting.

[we can do it]

2. Check out the election reform forum

[revolutionnow45]

3. it should be here front and center

on the front page of DU every day until this situation is cleared up.

How the heck can we go on pretending elections matter....

[bighughdiehl]

4. Quite possible....

I had been wondering about the highly coincident
timing of all these awful moves, including
now in my home state of PA. A perfectly reasonable answer
indeed is that they stole many of the elections
and this was all planned out beforehand a la "Shock Doctrine".

[revolutionnow45]

7. kick

I really think Duers should be thinking about this.

[Blue Owl]

8. Given the fact the Republicans only win by LYING, CHEATING, and STEALING...

...one would think a closer eye would be kept on them and their GOP-owned voting software/equipment.

Don't forget in California, when they switched to paper ballots, the state went 100% Democrat!

:tinfoil:

[revolutionnow45]

9. there is no tinfoil needed

The fact is, they should have to openly verify elections.

This whole idea that we should just trust them...is absurd.

As if, all politicians and rich aholes who control media and the voting machines are good people, we can trust them to be on the up and up.

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. Funny you should mention this. I just had a long drive home from a meeting...

and for some reason began thinking of a meeting our DEC had with our county's Supervisor of Elections several years ago. It made me realize I have not been hearing noise in this direction for awhile now.

[tavalon]

11. I'm not asleep

They only allow us to win the battles that don't matter so much. They wanted unverifiable voting and they got it. Certainly Bev of Blackboxvoting turning out to be a huckster, infiltrator, didn't help the cause, but I'm seeing now that we never had a chance there.

[AndyTiedye]

12. The Diebold Republican Electing Machines Are Still There

They didn't steal the 2008 election because it would have been too obvious.
With Koch's millions, they have been able to plant enough astroturf to make
Republican victories plausible again.

[kster]

16. Stop trying to bullshit people. nt

[BeFree]

21. That was sarcasm what kster wrote.

I am having a real hard time with the fact that even here on DU after all that has gone down, that too many here won't even discuss this.

If there is anyone who really believes that the machines can't be rigged, they can't be thinking straight.

[kster]

22. The country is going down the tubes and you have idiots

that defend secret vote counting machines. Good Grief!

[BeFree]

23. Hey,

you and I go back a long ways. And back then we fought like the dickens to get folks to see the reality.

And we made what I thought was great progress. Now it seems to have just slipped through the cracks and we have people here telling us that we MUST trust the machined count.

They actually - for no sound reason - believe and have utter faith that the vote count produced by a private corporation is accurate and unblemished.

If DUers, who are among the smartest folks, can't see the reality, I am beginning to think it may be no use and I'll just stand back and watch this country fall further and further away from democracy.

So how the hell are ya, kster?

[AndyTiedye]

39. It Is Too Horrible for Many to Contemplate

[emcguffie]

36. Well, they probably tried to.

They probably stole six percent, and it wasn't enough, was it?

I posted downstream in this thread... Mentioned Truth Is All, if you remember him? he has a website, and a theory about the election stealing machinery that is doing its work all around us all the time. I'll see if I can find it.

They're always taking about six percent, and sometimes it's enough and sometimes it isn't.

[emcguffie]

37. Remember Truth Is All? Richard Charnin.

Here is his website: www.truthisall.net

And here is a link to an analysis of his on the 2010 midterms.:


http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=4364

2010 Midterms Analysis: House Generic, Senate RV/ LV Polls, Exit Polls vs. Recorded Vote

Richard Charnin (TruthIsAll)

Nov. 22, 2010

Go here for the full analysis
http://richardcharnin.com/2010SenateMidtermsPostEl...

The 2010 midterms are history. The typical reaction of the pundits is to promote the conventional wisdom that it was a GOP blowout of epic proportions - even bigger than 1994. Yes, the party in power nearly always loses seats in the midterms. The unconventional wisdom is that the Democrats do significantly better than the recorded vote indicates in every election. There is no reason to suspect that 2010 was any different.

As usual, the pundits quote the final exit polls as gospel and claim that they show that Obama must move to the center – as if he’s been part of the “professional left” all along. They never question the official results. That’s why they’re pundits: they know that they are paid to present the recorded vote as if it represented the will of the voters. So they avoid the subject of: systemic election fraud - otherwise they might find themselves suspended indefinitely at best.

It is standard operating procedure for the exit pollsters to force the Final National Exit Poll (and final state exit polls) to match the recorded vote.
The pundits always assume that the Final NEP returning voter mix is legitimate even though it is always forced to match the recorded vote. As usual, their implicit assumption is that election fraud was not a factor. But it always is.

(continued)

(there's much, much, much more)


I no longer have the attention span to follow all his arguments, but I believe him to be correct. I sat the exit polls gets changed during the wee hours after the 2004 election, changed to match the stated outcome, and now I think Truth Is All is quite right -- it's just business as usual these days to make the exit polls match the stated outcome.

[snot]

13. NOT ME!

[louslobbs]

14. We thankfully, have paper ballots here in California or you can bet your life that SMEGma Whitman

Carly FIENDorina and others would have stolen the elections here. Why would anyone not want to be able to verify the actual vote if there were a question or someone yelled fraud? Why would Republicons not want a paper ballot system everywhere to make sure they are getting all the votes they deserve? Surely, Republicons wouldn't want to have their votes stolen by some nefarious left wing terrorist group lol lol. Oh my, my, my my. They are crafty little devils aren't they? Not a single ounce of integrity in a single one of them. Yes, that's painting with a broad brush, but it's the only brush I paint with when discussing election stealing Republicons.
Lou

[Scuba]

15. I'm awake.

[bvar22]

17. I haven't forgotten,

but the Democratic Party Leadership has....or at least pretends it isn't important.
After the stolen elections of 2000 & 2004, you would think that it transparent, verifiable elections would have been a Red Hot Burning Issue....
but no.
...not a peep.

Even with the support of 93% of ALL Americans, and easy WIN/WIN...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445
...not a peep out of the Democrats on stolen/Corporate Owned elections.


One must conclude that the Democratic Party Leadership is happy with the way things are.
Transparent, Verifiable elections might interfere with the rotating Power Sharing agreement between the Republicans and their friends, the "Centrist" Democrats.

Elections are too important to be left up to the citizens.

[joeunderdog]

18. The bravado that these bullies show in the face of public outcry

can only mean that they know they have it in the bag.

No other explanation for why they act the way they do and why the Dems capitulate on a whim.

The fact that the voting machines don't even get discussed means that they are worthy of discussion. It's off limits. Period.



We're screwed.

[dkofos]

19. It is still a major problem that few seem to care about.

HACK THE VOTE

[applegrove]

24. It was false exit polls that sank Kerry. False because somehow Rove and the GOP

got their supporters to not to respond to pollsters. This was the 'reluctant conservative responder'. That gave Kerry a false lead by early afternoon that promised him a win. This led many democrats, who vote in greater numbers in the early evening, to stay home and not vote because they though kerry had the win. And boom. The numbers come in late at night and the exit polls were wrong. But enough of a small % of dems did not vote. The GOP ended up winning.

[BeFree]

27. That's odd

That's pretty much exactly karl rove's talking points - what you said.

Fact is that many of the e-vote computers used in the 2004 election are now outlawed.
Fact is they were used for one election and then thrown out.

[applegrove]

41. I'm saying Rove and those in his political machine orchestrated the false exit polls.

Afterall false exit polls followed him from Texas. I fully doubt it is his talking point. The reluctant responder theory, which is part of what I talk about, was put out after an investigation. Karl Rove and Condolezza Rice, interestingly enough, both claimed the exit polls were wrong half way through that election day. Question to me is how did they know their polls were so right and all the exit polls so wrong?

[mod mom]

29. BS. Blackwell not only disenfranchised Af Am & student votes

but also used other techniques including not counting provisional votes. According to Bob Woodward:


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Blackwell came back & said there were many less PVs after Blackwell got the call from the WH

[mod mom]

30. Here educate yourself instead of dishing up kkkarl's talking points:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mod%20mom/1

[upi402]

25. Not me! Thanks you

I was reminded when some don't recognize this so they can blame Nader for BusCo's criminality.

Go go Greg Pallast!
Our Dem leaders are silent. hmmm?

[Wisconsin_2_Nation]

28. There is no way the electorate threw out our few good guys

and went to the polls to elect shitheads. They. stole. the. elections. This is why they feel so empowered to do whatever the hell they want now.

It should be obvious to all why they let Obama win. they are blaming every freaking thing on him. He is part of their plan to steal everything 2012.

[Kurovski]

31. K&R Diebold changed their name, 'Premier Election Solutions' and there are other companies involved,

but the OP is correct to raise the issue.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4962

[felix_numinous]

32. The old system was not faulty either--

it was sabotaged by someone disrupting the manufacturer of the special paper the punch cards were made from. We could go back to this system, using the CORRECT paper, and this would give us our free elections back,


When it comes to elections, they should be done by the most basic machinery, not high tech.

[TheKentuckian]

34. Some of our folks are in on the game. There is no other real answer.

The events of the past decade should make this front burner but it is buried deep and many people here won't even discuss it.

[emcguffie]

35. You could have taken the words out of my mouth...

Except that I am/have been too demoralized.

Remember Truth is All?

He has a theory, which he backs up with numbers, that the Republicans are stealing a solid 6 percent in all elections, and sometimes it's enough to win the election and sometimes it's not. I think he's right. It's hard to believe Americans are that stupid. That's right. It is hard to believe, because it isn't true, we are not THAT stupid.

I believe Obama won by much more than he appeared to have done.

At some point, people have to wake up again. I mean, when Wisconsin elects more Republicans, won't they realize what's going on?

[walldude]

38. Nope. Sorry. Go spend some time in GDP

to learn that it's the fault of the "Obama haters" who didn't go out and vote. That's why we lost because many Dems hate Obama for no reason whatsoever and screwed up the elections for all the "good" Democrats. Really. 5 minutes in GDP will tell you how it's all your fault.

[tallahasseedem]

40. I was on the ground in Tallahassee...

during the 2000 election heist. I will NEVER forget.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. I assume you live in a State still using electronic voting without

records. That is for you to solve. Can not help you from out of State. Here, we all have paper ballots, no one votes without one, we can make copies, whatever we want. And we elected a ton of Democrats. Had huge turn out. But that is us, and we are not stooges indulging in hyperbolic rhetoric in lieu of action. Enjoy!