To everyone that thinks Michael Vick should never be allowed to play in the NFL...

[no limit]

...I'm just curious. What do you think of a president that willingly approves unmanned drone attacks that end up killing hundreds if not thousands of innocent people each and every year? Do they still deserve to be president?

Before anyone calls me a Vick fan I would just like you to know that my team is the Dallas Cowboys. So you can imagine how I feel about the Eagles.

[stray cat]

1. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone, and they walked away starting with the eldest

And dropped their stones on the ground

[FreakinDJ]

10. Well said - Stray Cat

These same people condemning Michale Vick shop at Walmart buying consumer goods made in prison labor camps in a country where they summarily execute their citizens

[Kalyke]

49. Hmmm... I've haven't graced the doorway of a Walmart in seven years.

And I don't electrocute, maim, fight and torture dogs.

I'll take my stones, thank you.

Vick is a piece of unmitigated shit.

[Taverner]

13. Aye, despite Atheism, aye.

[truedelphi]

2. It is hard for me to approve of any President fighting any wars

For the supposed purpose of "Ensuring Freedom" at a time when we Americans are less secure in our homes (About to be foreclosed out from under us, in so many cases) and in our persons, which can be molested any time we try to travel somewhere.

I want to have a real Democrat in the WH. And hope that just as John F Kennedy came out of Nowhere in 1958 to secure the party's nomination in 1960, that some similar miracle will help us out soon.

It is my Christmas Wish of 2010.

[rustydog]

3. He was charged, tried, found to be guilty and a prison sentence imposed

This man, no matter how vile you may think he is, has paid his debt to society.
He has every right to work again.

I do believe he had forfeited his "right" to own another dog for the rest of his life.

[bbinacan]

7. Agreed. n/t

[Booster]

8. As much as I hate what this man did, I have to agree with you.

[no limit]

15. I would totally agree with you if not for the eagles avatar

[bigwillq]

17. That's a Seahawks'

I believe.

[madinmaryland]

18. Drop the sports mantra, dude. You obviously have no freaking idea

what you are talking about, if you can't figure out the difference between the Seattle Seahawks' logo and the Philadelphia Eagles' logo.

Un-believable.

[rustydog]

19. Seahawks avatar actually...

You know Seattle seahawks? Quarterback Interception-throwin' champ Matt Hasabin? Rainy...noisiest stadium...most opponent false starts in the NFL. Seahawks

[tallahasseedem]

26. EPIC FAIL!

Holy shit...LOL!

[cleanhippie]

48. Funny how so many "progressives" on this board cannot comprehend that.

But that is exactly right.

[MH1]

56. What you said.

And if he happens to be incredibly good at what he works at, he deserves the same reward as any other person who performs incredibly well at that job.

But no, he should not ever be allowed to own a dog, just as a convicted pedophile shouldn't get to interact with children. If Vick's kids want to have a dog, they should be given an option to help out at a no-kill shelter in their spare time, where maybe they can bond with the less-adoptable dogs who will be there for awhile.

[beam me up scottie]

4. oh brother...

:popcorn:

[donheld]

43. Oh Sister

:beer:

[beam me up scottie]

59. donheld!!! How are you?

I've been gone for a while, so glad to see you're still here. :hug:

[donheld]

62. I'm quite well thanks

:toast:

[SoCalNative]

5. I don't really give a damn about what happens to people

animals, on the other hand....

[KoKo]

6. Michael Vick deserves his TIME IN HELL before he ever get's BIG BUCKS, Again.

Just Saying. Cruelty should not be rewarded...no matter how important it is to the GAME!

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. Who is "rewarding" cruelty? n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. He's being rewarded for leading a team, not animal cruelty.nt

[Creative]

12. Huh...? He paid is debt and now he is moving on.

Do you have a problem with that?

[democracy1st]

33. I'm waiting for a answer also

[Dokkie]

35. cruelty is not being rewarded here

on the contrary, his crowd pleasing, ankle breaking, game winning plays are the only things being rewarded

[no limit]

44. Thanks for answering my actual question

[northernlights]

14. I don't give a flying fuck what Vick does with a stupid motherfucking ball.

Just keep him away from innocent and defenseless animals.

Having a hard time explaining to your little girls why they can't have a puppy, Vick? Try telling them the truth. That you beat, electrocuted, hung, spiked, tortured and killed an unknown number of dogs, not to mention the dogs and cats you used as "training bait." So you aren't allowed to have a dog.

If Vick were *anybody* instead of a *celebrity* that ban would be permanent. And it should be for him, too.

[no limit]

16. So what do you think of a president that approves of drone attacks...

...attacks that kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent people each year?

I look forward to your reply.

[northernlights]

21. if I write what I think of the president I will be tombstoned.

I'll leave it at writing that I stopped supporting this president some time ago.

And I stopped paying taxes that support these illegal wars years ago. Not by breaking the law, but by not earning enough money to pay any federal taxes. Happily, I don't have children, so I won't have children or grandchildren or greatgrandchildren stuck paying for America's illegal and immoral wars, either.

[emilyg]

24. +1

[AmandaMae]

58. +1

[ThomCat]

20. Drones are Terrorism. They are a war crime.

The last administration should be on trail for war crimes. And at this point, so should the current administration. The torture, renditions, drones, and attacks on civilians and reporters continued as routine policy under the Obama administration. :(

Hell, we now see cables about covered up acts of war in Yemen and Pakistan.

It doesn't look like Gitmo is ever going to be closed, and we found out more about the torture going on there.

Now our government is even holding peaceful anti-war activists in jail indefinitely without ever charging them with a crime.

When will enough be enough, and when will it end?

:(

[bighart]

51. The thing that I find hard to belive

is the exponential increase in drone strikes over the last 2 years.

[bullwinkle428]

22. Strawman argument - very few, if any here, are arguing that he should never

have had an opportunity to play in the NFL again. Some of us just refuse to cheer him on.

Your argument, quite frankly, is very similar to the hissy fit thrown by "Dr." Laura following her particularly ugly racial comments - "My 1st amendment rights are being violated!" :eyes:

[Howler]

23. Oh for crying out loud!!!!!

The man is who he is.He did what he did!!!!
I'm so sick of people trying to excuse this person because supposedly he "Did his time"
There were two convictions here in Ohio for dog fighting they got 6 to 10 years.
This was AFTER the Vick's scandal.
Now you tell me(with a straight face) that Vick's didn't get preferential treatment because the asshole can play football and had money!
PLEASE!!!!!!! This F@#ck was not a teenager,this F23ck was not under privileged!
This man deserves the exact mercy he showed those pups he fought and the animals he threw into the ring to train those dogs to fight.
Sometimes it just IS what it IS!!!!!
And everything else is just bullshit and excuses.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/11090/

[emilyg]

25. Good rant.

[Howler]

28. LOL! This really gets under my skin!

I worked at the Humane Society here in Dayton Ohio for Two very long years.

Hmmmmmmmmm lets see. Did vicks need money?.... NO! was Vick's trying to feed or provide for his family? NO!. Was vicks hungry and had to kill those animals to eat? NO!
That man made money that he didn't need on the torture Of those Dogs for the sheer entertainment of other sick minded F#$ks.
PAAAAAALEAASE!!!!!
Man, The folks here on D.U. talk about the short memory of the public for voting in the repukes in 201o and then turn around and advocate for vicks because he plays football. BARF!!!!!

I hope all manner of ill happens to vicks.F*&K The Eagles! F54k football! and Fuck Vick's!

[Lisa0825]

27. AMEN, and furthermore....

The vast majority of comments I have seen have NOT said he should not be allowed to play, just that we do NOT have to forgive him, because we do not feel he deserves it. That is OUR prerogative, and no one has the authority to insist that we accept him.

All he has to do for me to reconsider is to work with the rehabbers - support them with donations, talk with them about his remorse, and offer to do REAL volunteer work, as opposed to PR events.

Instead, he has become a glorified speaker for HSUS. They get publicity; he gets his cleansing. :puke:

[Howler]

29. I agree Lisa0825

Except Animal people DO NOT forget!!!
The N.F.L pissed off the wrong group of people.
We will be there to remember for those animals and remind the public of exactly how horrific Vick's dog fighting ring was.
And how little empathy Vick's,the N>F>L, and his fans have had for those animals.

[johnaries]

32. +1000

[Dokkie]

38. Nonsense

no 1st time offender goes to jail for 6yrs for a freaking dog fight especially with the over crowding problems we have in our prison system.

[flvegan]

39. That's not true.

Multiple charges add up. Dog fighters are rarely (IOW, never) guilty of just dog fighting.

Thanks for playing though.

[Howler]

52. Oh REALLY?

http://www.itchmo.com/man-receives-102-year-prison-sentence-for-dog-fighting-related-charges-3856

A Cottonwood, Alabama man has been sentenced to 102 years in prison after a jury found him guilty of dog fighting related charges.

Circuit Court Judge Ed Jackson sentenced Johnny Ray Lewis to six years in prison for each of the 17 felony counts he was convicted of. He was found guilty of possessing dogs with the intent to train them for fighting.

[Howler]

54. There absolutely is a connection between animal abuse and

Abusing humans for those of you who insist that human life is oh so more important then animal lives.


http://www.animallaw.info/articles/arus113pennstlrev649.htm

Excerpt

2. The Link Between Animal Abuse and Crimes Against Humans

In the past, crimes against animals have mistakenly been viewed as isolated acts of violence, rather than incidents connected to other violent acts. Numerous studies, however, have proven that animal cruelty can *653 easily lead to violence against humans. Even early philosophers recognized the link between animal cruelty and violence toward humans. Immanuel Kant explained, “e who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men.” Psychological studies have shown that cruelty toward animals has been shown to lead to violent acts against humans, including spousal abuse and sexually aggressive crimes. Additionally, courts have begun to recognize the connection.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

57. It wasn't just "a" dog fight. He was breeding, training, torturing, and executing .

[lukasahero]

45. Excellent rant

Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[brettdale]

30. apples and oranges?

apples and oranges?

[johnaries]

31. So you think the President ENJOYS drone attacks?

That he purposely targets innocent civilians for ENTERTAINMENT?

Apples and oranges.

[Erose999]

53. Not so fast. I don't think Vick was doing what he was doing just because he got his jollies killing

dogs. His problem started when he rationalized that killing and torturing dogs was the cost of doing business. His business goal was to produce the meanest dogs and make money off of them. The dogs lives were ultimately, to Vick, a business expense.

Similarly, the fucknuts running the show in our government and media have mistakenly rationalized that keeping us safe from terrorism involves occupying Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries in the Middle East eliminating anyone who opposes American hegemony there. The lives of human beings on both sides of the wars, to GWB, Cheney, Condi, and now even Fauxbama... are just the cost of doing business.

[Dokkie]

34. you r right

not just those who approve of war mongering presidents, don't forget troop supporters, carnivores and leather wearers.Vick has served his time, its time to move on

[flvegan]

37. Yet another (facepalm)

[Eric Condon]

36. Here's my take on Vick

I guess if our legal system declares that he's "paid his debt to society," then there's nothing else I can say about his behavior beyond the condemnation which I would think would be standard from any liberal. With that out of the way, it becomes the responsibility (cross to bear) of the Philadelphia Eagles that they choose to be associated with him. At this point, they are the ones who have to own up to the shame of the fact that they were willing to stoop to sign him. As a vegetarian and someone who cares deeply about animals, it should be obvious that my contempt for him is boundless. But at this point, having served jail time his position in all this is secondary to the people who choose to associate with him.

And for the record, I could give a flying fuck about football, so I don't have a stake in where he plays this year or any year.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

40. Hey no limit

did you know that Thom Hartmann read one of your posts over the air?

lol

[Angry Dragon]

41. Anyone that would have the cowboys as their team............

no more needs to be said

[LostInAnomie]

42. Good fucking God! There could not be a dumber apples and oranges comparision.

Do you think Obama uses drone attacks so he and his buddies have something to gamble on in their spare time?

[Dokkie]

47. Obama's case is even worse

hes probably using more drone attacks because hes oh so scared of what republicans and fox news would say about it. 1 dead innocent human (arab, muslin or not) is greater than 1000 dogs

[TexasObserver]

46. It's appropriate to compare the atrocities committed.

I don't make it about the president, however. It's about us, as a nation, and our complete acceptance of nine years of our war making and death making in the Mideast.

Do our atrocities far eclipse the misdeeds of Vick? Certainly, and that point is a good one. Making it about the president is not, however.

[Erose999]

50. How is Vick supposed to rehabilitate if people mock him and shun him?

If he's always gonna be treated like chopped liver, thats not really any incentive for him to change.

I think when you shun people from society it pushes them farther into crime and the behaviors that got them into trouble in the first place. Its one thing to be suspicious of the way he's trying to turn his image around now, but to say something like;

"OMG Mike Vick should NEVAR have dogs again!!!111!!1!1"

is a little extreme. He should be given a second chance, but not in a way where he is allowed to have a dog like nothing ever happened. Maybe he could be allowed to volunteer at a no-kill shelter or work with therapy dogs or something like that where his contact with the animals could be monitored.

[Orsino]

55. Vick does not get to hide behind Obama. n/t

[AndrewP]

60. He can play again for all I care. I just hope he gets his leg broken.

The guy is a fraud.

[Howler]

61. You Know.........

Anytime you have to search out a heinous crime to try and make another mans actions less Heinous you have lost the debate before you have begun it.

The Bottom line is that cruelty of this sort against animals that have been bred for generations to be loyal and faithful to humans is simply indefensible.
And to try and water down the impact of that cruelty with a comparison such as this is just weak,and ineffectual.
Tell me people do you really need that kind of man for a hero?????