Watch the live siging of repeal of DADT!

[warrior1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40770757#40770757

[racaulk]

1. Another link, just in case:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

This is a historic moment, and I'm glad to be watching! :hi:

K&R!

[Chipper Chat]

8. CNN also covered it .....

...but guess who didn't!

[racaulk]

2. Kick

:kick:

[spanone]

3. yowza!!!!

[MinneapolisMatt]

4. Historic indeed!

WOOT!

[terrya]

5. This is just freaking awesome!

I'm getting goosebumps...this is history, folks.

It is, as Vice President Biden would say, a big fucking deal. :-)

I've been trying to call the White House Comments line, but it's busy. I will do so again and I'll thank President Obama for working to make this day happen.

[bushisanidiot]

6. I'm watching c-span3.

:)

[pinboy3niner]

7. Wow--that was a great speech! nt

[Bragi]

9. I'm anti-war and ambivalent on this

I support every aspect of GBLT equality, but I'm less than excited that military service to the Empire has become such a rallying point.

For me, I can't really get all gushy celebratory about the fact that gay people can now openly serve in death squads sent around the world by the MIC.

Meh.

[pinboy3niner]

10. Perhaps you've missed the point

Repeal of DADT has nothing to do with making service a "rallying point." It simply ends official, legal government discrimination based on sexual orientation.

If your objection is that "gay people can now openly serve in death squads sent around the world by the MIC," what difference does it make if ther service is open or not? Gays have served in the military forever, despite DADT or worse policies.

And, apart from equality issues, your characterization of everyone in military service with "death squads" is absolutely ridiculous.

[Bragi]

11. No, I get the point

The end of DADT is a definitely a proper thing, but I can't get wildly celebratory over this change.

And yes, my characterization of the change as allowing GBLT people to join military death squads sent abroad by the MIC was intentionally pejorative, but given current reality, hardly ridiculous.

Not all military units abroad are death squads, but clearly, many are.

[pinboy3niner]

12. It was hyperbole and broad-brushing AND ridiculous

First, many enlistees will never serve in war zones and may, in fact, never leave the U.S.

Second, even for those who serve in war zones, the ratio of combat troops to support troops is on the order of 1:10 or 1:11.

Third, even the broad-brush characterization of people classified as combat troops as 'death squads' is ridiculous. That term has a meaning that not even the most antiwar activist organizations apply generally to U.S. combat troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Being 'anti-war' is fine and good, but is doesn't excuse assasinating the character of people about whom you know nothing. We've been there before. It wasn't right then, and it's not right now. We should know, by now, enough to be able to 'separate the war from the warrior.'

Obviously, my avatar indicates Vietnam War service. I'm also antiwar, and I've been a member of Veterans for Peace. I was a combat Infantry troop in a war. I never was in a death squad--and I never killed any babies.

[Bragi]

13. So we disagree

Based on a lifetime of observation and a lot of reading, I conclude that the U.S military machine is a major force for evil in the world right now, as well as being an outrageously expensive undertaking that is bankrupting the country.

I don't blame each and every soldier for that, but I have difficulty getting wildly excited and all misty to learn that GBLT people can now openly serve in this awful and destructive enterprise.

[pinboy3niner]

14. So gays serving unopenly is no prob, but gays serving openly is?

What's the difference?

[Bragi]

15. Looks like I may have mispoken...

I have no problem with gays in particular serving in the military, and I think the repeal of DADT is right and proper. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm just saying DADT repeal isn't a matter for great and historic celebration anywhere near, say, the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

The reason for my diminished celebratory mood has everything to do with the fact that the institution where equality is now to be properly enforced -- the military machine -- is mostly used as a malevolent force in the world.

Equal participation for GBLT people in that ghastly enterprise is good as far as it goes, but the far more important issue is what can we do to end this whole enterprise itself, or at least to shrink it down to a size that a sensible and responsible for one country to have.