High school teacher sentenced to 30 years for having sex with 18 year old student.

[gatorboy]

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=146399

FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. (AP) -- A former Elkins High School teacher has been convicted of having sex with an 18-year-old student and was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The Northwest Arkansas Times reports that a Washington County Circuit Court jury found 37-year-old David Paschal guilty on Tuesday of second-degree sexual assault and of bribing a witness.

Authorities say the relationship was consensual, but violates state law that prohibits sex between a teacher and a student younger than 21. Authorities say the girl reported the relationship after learning that Paschal had expressed interest in another girl.

[tridim]

1. Raise your hand if you knew that law existed before reading this article.

[Dr. Strange]

7. I'd heard of it.

Don't agree with it (the law outlawing behavior for teachers only).

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. Counselors and therapists can lose their licenses for the same thing.

A teacher is in a position of power and authority. There are lots of good reasons to prohibit them from having sex from with students regardless of age.

[Tunkamerica]

17. and 30 years in prison?

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. Excessive. n/t

[msanthrope]

43. Not when you try bribing your victim to drop the charges.

Seriously, when you've been caught, and then you try to payoff the victim to drop the charges, the justice system is going to frack you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. I don't think "victim" is appropriate.

Not every misconduct creates a victim.

[msanthrope]

121. Really? The victim of the crime of bribery doesn't deserve that appellation?

Why? Because she is female?

[lumberjack_jeff]

145. If I try to bribe a judge, is he a victim? n/t

[blueamy66]

86. She wasn't a victim, but, instead,

an able-minded, willing participant.

[tigereye]

99. underage, in a position of inferior power, and seduced

by her teacher, a person who should not be seducing students. NO.

[pbrower2a]

112. Teachers: Hands off students!

It is unprofessional in the extreme for a teacher to have a sexual relationship with a student. It creates all sorts of conflicts of interest.

Anyone who has taught knows what influence a teacher can have over a student. That had better be 100% benign because taxpayers are paying for that relationship.

[tigereye]

114. yes.

[opiate69]

118. Underage? at 18? um, NO....

[TheWraith]

124. I call bullshit.

She was not "underage," she was 18. She could have signed up to go kill or be killed in the military, but somehow she's expected to be a weak willed moron when it comes to who she sleeps with?

[blueamy66]

133. Please explain

this "inferior power".

underage at 18? Okay, gotcha...so let's not let 18 year olds vote, DIE for their county in stupid wars, or drive a freaking car for that matter....geesh....this is so tiring

[Confusious]

134. I like how it's always the man doing the seducing

Women would NEVER do that. I do declare, it just wouldn't be proper.

[markpkessinger]

91. "Victim?" Really?

The girl, of legal majority and thus fully capable of competent consent, was pissed that her lover-boy expressed interest in someone else, and so decided to retaliate. I hardly think the appellation of "victim" is appropriate here.

[msanthrope]

122. Really? She is the victim of the crime of bribery. What is your

problem with that?

[markpkessinger]

152. I fail to see how she was victimized

Bribery is a crime against society in general, as it can corrupt or interfere with the political process or obstruct justice. I fail to see how a young woman who essentially abused the legal system in order to exact revenge on her boyfriend is the "victim" of anything. The bribery was wrong, to be sure, and the man was in technical violation of the statue prohibiting teachers from sexual relations with students under the age of 21. But seriously, 30 years??? When she was a willing partner in the affair???

[Hannah Bell]

163. the harm done to her was?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=547727&mesg_id=551499

[CreekDog]

115. 30 years? way excessive

Bribes or no.

[Dr. Strange]

19. I have no problem with him being fired.

A counselor losing a license? No problem with that either.
Jail? That makes me a little uncomfortable.

[Hannah Bell]

164. 30 years makes me *very* uncomfortable when the girl was 18.

and when the only reason she reported him was that he "expressed interest in another girl".

[orleans]

168. exactly. n/t

[gatorboy]

23. I agree, but 30 years?

Murderers get less time.

[npk]

71. This is Amerika

Home of the religious fucktards. We have to base our laws on what Jebus tells us is wrong. You know because because age is but a number, unless of course that number is under 18, then that is an iddy biddy baby that must be protected until they are at least old enough to move out of their parents home and get a real fucking job. At which that precise moment, Jebus tells us that they are no longer important or worth protecting.

You really have to give it up to the religious right in this country who have somehow managed to legislate from the bible and convince ordinarily intelligent people into believing that having consensual sex with an 16 year old is child rape, but having sex with a person that is 10 days older and 17, is OK.

Thanks to the Christians for making Amerika great.

[era veteran]

129. I'm kicking with comment

Totally out of line , 30 years is complete bullshit. Take away his teaching accreditation and fire him with contempt but 30 years???
While 1st degree & premeditated rich boy murderer walks the streets.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=154x2195

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=154x2319

[Drahthaardogs]

117. Losing your license and going to state pen for 30 years

are not even on the same planet.

[lumberjack_jeff]

119. Losing your license and "What's the big deal?" aren't either.

This is a strawman. 30 years is excessive, he should simply have lost his privilege to teach.

[Threedifferentones]

137. Losing license is cool.

If he guy were somehow barred from teaching over this, I'd think that's cool. But 30 years in jail for consensual sex with an adult? Never cool.

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. I knew that bribing witnesses was ilelgal

[sabrina 1]

63. In this country that seems to depend on who is doing the bribing.

Eg, we bribed many dictators and still do, with huge amounts of cash. See Uzbekistan eg, so that they will let us build military bases in their countries, even when their people do not want us to do so.

Are there laws against bribing brutal, genocidal maniacs making it possible for them to continue with their criminal lives? Any jail time for that far more egregious form of bribery which directly affects the very lives of millions of innocent people?

And what about War crimes, lies to get the country into war. Torture, murder, the use of forbidden weapons, the killing of innocents?

The rape of women in our own military as well as the women whose countries we occupy?

Sorry, I can't get too upset over a guy in his 30s and a woman who is 18 having an affair, nor over his trying to bribe someone to keep him out of our draconian legal system and our criminal prison system which is among the worst in the civilized, and even uncivilized world regarding human rights issues.

Not even worthy of notice, considering the major, major crimes that are ignored on a daily basis in this country.

[jberryhill]

32. Hand raised - the issue here is not consent or age

The issue here is abuse of a position of authority.

Teachers are assigned a position in which they are influential in the lives of their students, and the incidence of students romanticizing that relationship is not unusual. What we expect is that teachers are cognizant of that phenomenon and do not take advantage of it.

A prison guard and a prisoner may genuinely fall in love too, but we do not allow sexual relationships in that context either.

[tridim]

44. Should the law extend to college?

I knew half a dozen male profs who were sleeping with students.

It sucked because it didn't seem fair, but I don't think they should have gone to prison for doing it.

[jberryhill]

50. No

Colleges set their own rules on that kind of thing.

College is also voluntary.

Now, in some states, the public school's obligation to enroll a student ends at a certain age.

However, parents are legally obligated to educate their children, and if they do not home school or pay for a private school, then they are going to suffer a legal problem if they do not send their child to the state-provided public school. Likewise, the child is going to be in the juvie system for truancy. So, when that 17 year old started her senior year, she was legally compelled to be there.

That is why I raise the prison guard analogy.

Nobody has to send their kids to college, and nobody is required to attend.

Most colleges do have rules on that kind of thing. Some of those rule sets are better than others, and some are better enforced than others.

But, at the end of the day, you will find that most states have specific laws addressing what happened here. That is a social decision which has been made and reflected in the law that was enforced here. If the teacher believed the law to be incorrect, the teacher, and you, can seek to have that law changed. Violating it is not a good course of action for that purpose.

If this person found a conflict between his emotions and the requirements of his profession, he could have stopped teaching when he realized there was going to be a conflict. That would also be a proper course of action.

Here's one that will knock you for a loop - lawyers. In quite a few states lawyers are not allowed to engage in a sexual relationship with a client unless that relationship pre-existed the attorney-client relationship. Again, it is not about age or consent, it is about a professional position that may be compromised by a sexual relationship.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. However, this law goes up to 21

So the law is not just about people who started the academic year as a child, legally. I very much doubt any state has laws saying those aged 19 or 20 must be educated. I wonder if this law would apply to colleges too. Time to find out, I think.

[jberryhill]

70. Ark. Code 5-14-125. Sexual assault in the second degree

5-14-125. Sexual assault in the second degree.

(a) A person commits sexual assault in the second degree if the person:

...


(6) Is a teacher in a public school in a grade kindergarten through twelve (K-12) and engages in sexual contact with another person who is:

(A) A student enrolled in the public school; and

(B) Less than twenty-one (21) years of age.

-----------------

That is the relevant statute.

(Now, you'll notice that is subsection (a)(6). A LOT of other things are also sexual assault in the second degree in Arkansas)

[muriel_volestrangler]

85. So, only for public schools - not private ones?

Looking at the parts close to it, for other 'in authority' positions, the age is under 18.

I'm not that surprised they wanted a law against teacher-pupil sex, I guess, and they wanted it to cover pupils age 18, because there will be plenty of those in the final year; but I'm surprised it would then be legal in a private school. And a 30 year sentence seems very big.

[jberryhill]

92. Sigh....

This is why I should never get involved in these threads.

No, I have not done a complete study of sexual crimes in Arkansas. I did find the one that applies to these facts.

They seem to have "rape" and then several degrees of sexual assault. The section of the 2nd degree definition applicable here specifies public school. I imagine that was important to them because those are state employees. Maybe private school is covered in one of the other degrees, but it seems you figured out how to find it.

What's crazy on DU is that once a particular criminal statute in a particular state is fully nailed down, you have 49 more states, Puerto Rico, DC, Guam and the Northern Marianas to go...

[MedicalAdmin]

108. I can help with this one.

The reason the law goes to age 21 is because it has to comply with federal law which allows and mandates a free, public and appropriate education for the disabled up to the age of 21.

So by covering up to the age of 21 it will also cover the disabled who are especially vulnerable. I think everyone can agree that we wouldn't want that kind of a loophole. A young woman or man of 20 could have the mental or emotional age of a 6 year old but the body of an adult.

[tigereye]

104. here in PA students with disabilities have the right to go

to school until they are 21 and many do. I suspect. I would think that that might be a reason for such an age range.

[MedicalAdmin]

105. I get your point more clearly now.

And I agree. Professionally this guy is pond scum.

I'm not sure about the 30 year thing tho'. That seems a weeeeeee bit harsh.

[MedicalAdmin]

111. I was rather fond of one of my english profs.

Sigh. She had great legs and a wicked mind. God - I Loved that semester.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Professors shouldn't sleep with their students.

If they do, they should be replaced.

It should be considered misconduct, but not necessarily a crime.

[Xithras]

120. College prof's are generally prohibited from sleeping with THEIR students.

Believe me, working on a college campus, I can assure you that teachers sleep with students all the time. Most colleges and universities prohibit relationships between teachers and students they are currently teaching, and some states have laws prohibiting those types of relationships, but that's about the extent of it.

Students who aren't in your classes? Fair game.

The rules exist for good reason. You'd be shocked at how often we get propositioned by students looking for better grades. The M.O. isn't usually a blatant, "I'll sleep with you for an A", but a more nefarious "I want to sleep with you because you're nice" followed the next day by a "I shouldn't have done that. It would sure suck if your boss found out, wouldn't it?" Wink, wink.

[petronius]

127. Often? That never happens to me at all. I must be grading too easily, or else

I must be really really unattractive. :rofl:

Seriously, I was pretty surprised when I found out how loose the rules on romantic relationships are when I got my first appointment. Just a vague prohibition on students the faculty member evaluates or supervises, which IMO leaves open a number of potentially improper possibilities...

[Xithras]

144. You must be.

I just tallied it up, and I think I've two this past year, and maybe three the year before. And yes...I turned them all down. I have a 17 year old daughter, and at some point recently the thought of sleeping with an 18 or 19 year old woman just became...icky. I don't know when it happened, but that particular flame has gone out.

I'm in good shape and am not hard on the eyes, but I'm Joe Average overall and I'm old enough to be some of these womens father, so I don't think it's an issue of physical attractiveness.

After discussing it with colleagues, I do suspect that the subject plays some sort of role. I've NEVER been propositioned by any student in any of the CompSci courses I've taught (which are obviously only attended by CS majors), but I've had MANY students in my Symbolic Logic course proposition me over the years. I've also taught Logic & Critical thinking courses quite a few times (my personal fave to teach, actually), and have had more than a few students in that class "make the offer". Logic courses are often taken by non-CS students as a way to avoid math requirements in various majors, so the problem may stem from the fact that I'm dealing with many students who are already predisposed to looking for the easy way out.

I personally don't have any complaints about the current rules. While I have no interest in having any sort of relationship with students myself, I do believe that consenting adults should be able to share whatever sort of relationship they want...assuming that there is no teacher/student power imbalance involved. My campus actually takes it a step further, prohibiting faculty from having relationships with any student they've ever taught, while those students are still enrolled. Seems fair enough.

[petronius]

149. My main concern with the current rule is that, even though there are

many students in a department or even college that a faculty member might never directly evaluate or supervise, there are behind-the-scenes chances to influence student outcomes - granting funding, awards, allocating seats in class, and so on - where faculty can directly aid or encourage other faculty to aid a student. For example, I've had colleagues ask me to do favors for individual students when I strongly suspect the motivation is a secret relationship. It's a small thing, perhaps, but it does create an inequality for the other students.

And I agree with you on the "icky" aspect - I can certainly look around campus and see who I would have been attracted to 20 years ago, but now I just see kids...

[npk]

73. Actually the issue here is 30 years in prison

As another poster said many people have committed murder and gotten lighter punishments. If our laws in this country were common sense based, instead of being based on what GOD told Mosep in that burning bush, then this man would have been fired and had his teaching license revoked. But oh no he must suffer for the rest of his life, or much of it anyway, behind pars for this heinous act against a poor child. Give me a break.

[jberryhill]

76. Here, have a break

I wasn't commenting on the sentence.

Attempted witness tampering is a huge deal, though.

[npk]

78. The witness tampering was a second hand account

from another girl that was allegedly asked by the teacher to convince the victim to drop the case. But even according to the news story the bribery charge was only a fine, and had nothing to do with the jail time. The sexual assault charge carried with it a max 10 year sentence for 4 counts. The jury wanted to give the man 10 years for each count, but the judge knocked 10 years off the final sentence. This case has every thing to do with the religious nuts in this country that have demanded state legislatures increase penalties and punishments for sex crimes. Like, for example, this 18 year girl. This country has always been obsessed with sex. Some people, sadly even most adults, don't know how to deal with the discussion of sex, especially as it pertains to their kids. So like a lot of other issues Americans tend to want to avoid, they try and get them legislated out of their lives as much as they possibly can. The religious right in this country has been the willing go between helping to get tougher sentences passed on these kinds of cases. Because the adults in this country are mostly incapable of applying common sense to any problem, this is what we have ended up with in America.

[MedicalAdmin]

109. I'm going to go out on a limb here... but those who want these kinda laws....

doth protest too much. My guess is that they don't want anyone else sleeping with their daughters or sons, because in truth they want to. It's just like the worst homophobes seem to be closet cases.

Just my opinion. If I need to be flamed for it, I'll slather myself in BBQ sauce and submit myself willingly for punishment.

[Confusious]

135. I was going to say, 30 years for trying to bribe a witness

OK, I can see that. I can sorta agree with it. I believe that these things should be held to a high standard. Maybe not 30 years, depending on the severity of the crime and the circumstances, which in this case would have been maybe 5 years at most. 100 years in a mob case when dealing with murders and larceny.

But 30 years for sex with the girl. No way, no how, not ever.

That is some harsh stupid shit.

[Dogtown]

138. Exactly! n/t

[blueamy66]

87. I call bullshit.

Again, an 18 year old KNOWS what he/she is getting into.

30 years in prison is absolutley ridiculous.

BUT, we MUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! Even when they're old enough to vote, drive, get married and serve their country.

[CLANG]

98. So true.

It was consensual sex between two adults. But he did abuse or take advantage of his position of power. That is not a 30 year sentence.

[tigereye]

101. thank you!

[MedicalAdmin]

102. I agree with you even tho that is not an equatable example.

Prisoners are not considered able to consent, whereas this girl was. I do agree with you that this scum was trolling for students and should have been banned from teaching at the very least. It seems to me that 30 years, bribery or not, is very wrong. Ima gonna guess that the girl is related to the 3rd cousin of the judges grand uncles grand nieces mothers brothers sisters 2nd husband or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFd_n0Yfhc&feature=related

[Hannah Bell]

165. and you think 30 years is just? she was 18 & only reported the relationship

when the man "expressed interest in another girl"

[blueamy66]

174. 30 years?????

nt

[cbdo2007]

38. Doesn't matter if WE knew it existed - I'm sure the teacher knew it existed.

[blueamy66]

173. PLEASE!!!!

Are you kidding me???? 30 years in jail?????? REALLY????

[Tunkamerica]

2. That's reasonable.

Solitary confinement, sex offender status for life. Sounds about right for consensual sex between adults.

[laundry_queen]

6. No kidding.

If you're 18, you can vote, drive, own a gun and decide if you want to go to war and die, but sorry, you're not old enough to decide if you want to have sex with your teacher.

I have never understood the whole 18/21 thing. Where I am, it's 18 across the board. 18 for voting, gambling, joining the military, drinking, smoking etc. It says a lot to me that the US is willing to allow its 18 year olds to join the military, kill people, make life and death decisions on the battlefield but won't let them gamble, drink or have sex until they are 21. WTF?

[Tunkamerica]

11. selena gomez is 18 and Justin Bieber is 16.

[former9thward]

36. Selma Gomez is not in a position of authority with Bieber.

That is what this law is about.

[Ian David]

3. I've never heard of such a thing. This is insane. n/t

[Bandit]

4. Can't they just execute him and be done with it?

Just think, if we could just execute everyone that has illicit sex we could get rid of most Republicans..In case this is needed :sarcasm:

[upi402]

5. Males get decades in prison, women get book deals and TV shows

:wtf: brilliant justice as per typical here

[msanthrope]

31. Right, because Mary Kay LeTourneau didn't go to jail, lose her kids, have to

register as a sex offender....

It was all peaches and roses....

[Upton]

46. She was given probation at first..

it was only after Letourneau reoffended that she was jailed. Tell me a man wouldn't have been tossed into prison from the git-go..

[msanthrope]

49. He might not have. Sex offenders tend to have long records, reflecting

the fact that sometimes, they get very little punishment for what they do.

And that doesn't even begin to touch the unreported crimes.

I can tell you that each case is different. But to suggest that there was no punishment for Ms. LeTourneau is silly.

[ReggieVeggie]

8. beware of a woman scorned!

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. He should not be a teacher, but 30 years is excessive.

Here in my county, a teacher was arrested for the same thing, but it apparently wasn't a crime here.

[blogslut]

10. Is it possible

...that the lengthy sentence was due not just to the sex charge but also to the bribery conviction?

EDIT ADD: More detail. According to this report the guy threatened the young woman and was trolling for other babysitters:

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2010/jun/03/fired-elkins-teacher-arrested-sexual-assault-case/

[jdlh8894]

20. My thoughts exactly.

The bribery conviction got him the most time.

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. No - the bribery conviction just got him a $4,000 fine

Circuit Court Judge William Storey sentenced David Paschal, 37, after a jury found Paschal guilty of four counts of second-degree sexual assault and one count of bribing a witness.

The jury of seven women and five men recommended a sentence of 10 years on each sexual assault count and a $4,000 fine on the charge of bribing a witness.

Storey imposed the fine but suspended 10 years of the sentence.

The judge said he was tempted to sentence Paschal to serve the full 40 years in prison given the harm done to the victim and other ...

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2011/mar/03/paschal-guilty-sex-assault/

[snooper2]

12. Best comment -

GUZZLER wrote:
18 and in High School?Maybe she isn't the brightest bulb on the tree but she is 18.I suppose to make room for him they'll have to release a pedophile guilty of raping a four year old and dumping his body in a river
3/3/2011 9:48 AM CST on TodaysTHV.com

[Tunkamerica]

14. Most people turn 18 in high school.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. Same state where a 16 year old can consent to sex or get married.

[Modern_Matthew]

16. WTF? Happened here and the teacher lost his job. That's it. n/t

[jdlh8894]

24. But,did he bribe a juror?

[gatorboy]

29. Nothing in the story about bribing a juror.

From the article:

"On the bribery charge, Paschal was convicted of telling a student he would give the 18-year-old girl several thousand dollars if she dropped the charges."

It doesn't even sound like the bribery actually took place. Only that he was considering it.

[jdlh8894]

41. My bad. The Op story says bribing a witness. n/t

[jberryhill]

42. Offering a bribe IS the crime of bribery

You think that if you offer a cop $100 to drop a parking ticket, and he doesn't take, then you aren't guilty of bribery?

Really?

Like, it's only a crime when it is successful. But when it is successful, nobody's getting charged with a crime.

[gatorboy]

56. You didn't read what I posted.

No where in the article does it state that he directly gave are offered a bribe to the student. Only that he mentioned to another student that he considered it.

And even so, if the sentencing is truly for the bribery itself, it's still extremely high. Even on a federal level, bribery sentences rarely reach 15 years.

[Hannah Bell]

167. the 30 years wasn't for the bribery.

[RZM]

18. Hope this gets reduced on appeal

That being said, this guy sounds like a scumbag -- ALL HS teachers who have sex with a student are engaging in reprehensible behavior and should be fired at a minimum. But 30 years? That's way too much. This should destroy his career, but not necessarily his life.

[seabeyond]

22. there is a law. he broke it. then he bribed someone knowingly breaking another law

what is the issue.

[rug]

30. 30 years.

[seabeyond]

33. dont agree with 30 yrs. also dont know how much bribery effect sentencing.... nt

[cali]

26. that is so fucked up.

[Lance_Boyle]

27. He should have been female. No penalty when women do it.

Especially if they're "too pretty for jail." The prosecutorial double standard is shockingly unconstitutional.

[QC]

34. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

If it has been a woman screwing her male students, she would be told to please not be quite so naughty in the future and sent on her merry way.

[Ilsa]

35. Women have gone to jail too, but you're right: not as many. nt

[msanthrope]

37. Right. 'Cause Mary Kay LeTourneau didn't go to jail, right? n/t

[Dr. Strange]

45. She had sex with a 13-year-old.

Thirteen-year-olds can't consent, period.

[msanthrope]

47. True, had Ms. Letourneau attempted to bribe a witness, she would have gotten jail time too.

and that's part of what got Mr. Paschal such a stiff sentence--he tried bribing the witness.

[Lance_Boyle]

48. Not for 30 years she didn't. And she committed statutory rape! Multiple times!

You won't bother to compare the statistics on this, I'm sure. But I have. In general female teachers can screw their male students - even the truly illegal underage ones - with next to zero repercussions. Male teachers? They go to prison.

[msanthrope]

54. He's going to jail for sex crimes and bribery. But if you've

got stats, post them.

[Nye Bevan]

60. "Next to zero repercussions"? Like 20 years in prison?

Woman teacher gets 20 years for sleeping with boy pupil,13

A teacher who was caught having sex with a 13-year-old boy pupil has been jailed for 20 years.

Ashley Jo Beach wept in court as a judge told her she was a disgrace to her profession and had abused her trust.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1239689/Female-U-S-teacher-jailed-20-years-sleeping-pupil-13.html#ixzz1FYRfqrKq

[U4ikLefty]

160. Not pretty...doesn't count

[dsc]

52. only after getting probation and violating the probation

on repeated instances.

[Selatius]

172. There's no parity. LeTourneau never got a sentence as long as 30 years, period! nt

[Nye Bevan]

39. "No penalty"? Seriously?

What are you talking about?

Woman teacher gets 20 years for sleeping with boy pupil,13

A teacher who was caught having sex with a 13-year-old boy pupil has been jailed for 20 years.

Ashley Jo Beach wept in court as a judge told her she was a disgrace to her profession and had abused her trust.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1239689/Female-U-S-teacher-jailed-20-years-sleeping-pupil-13.html#ixzz1FYRfqrKq

[muriel_volestrangler]

68. But that's Idaho, and a 13 year old boy; in Arkansas, with an 18 year old boy, it was 120 days

On Thursday, Melissa Monroe, 33, of Bella Vista, pled guilty to a charge of sexual assault in the second degree and two counts of furnishing alcohol to a minor. She faced up to 20 years in prison. What she received was 120 days in prison, five years probation and registering as a sex offender.

Prosecuting attorney, Joni Rose, said the sentence was lighter than it could have been because the case was so unusual. The student involved is 18-years-old. However, even though he is an adult, under Arkansas law, it is a crime for a public-school teacher to engage in sexual contact with a student younger than 21.


http://www.5newsonline.com/news/kfsm-news-nwa-sex-assault-melissa-monroe,0,975532.story

[jberryhill]

51. That's incorrect

It all depends on whether they are "hot".

[Dash87]

66. I always thought that kind of mentality was strange.

It's wrong either way. I think the bribing attempt is what got him, though.

[catrose]

96. Not in my town

A deputy who had molested a girl since she was 7, who reported him when she was 15, got deferred adjudication, as in "pretty please don't do it again." A 30-something woman, not even a teacher, who had sex with a teenage neighbor got 30-something years.

[Ilsa]

28. You know, I think it might be worthwhile for teachers to go through

Some periodic legal updates in their states. They need to be aware of laws like this and other legal issues that affect their pay, employment, pensions, etc.

I think 30 is too harsh, but he shouldn't have had sex with a student, whether he or she is 16, 18, or 21. A student's status and the teacher's authority over students should be the guiding reason for this as law and policy.

[Bunny]

55. That might be a good idea, but I'm not sure why they don't just internalize

one simple rule, right from the get go: students are off limits, period. Don't worry about how old they are, or if it's legal in your state, just stay the fuck away from any student under any circumstances. Problem solved, and yes, it's really just that simple.

[Ilsa]

72. Exactly: students are off-limits. There is a power-position there that mustn't be abused. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

113. Teacher DO get updates on this.

It's inconceivable that this guy didn't know that sticking his weiner in that young lady wasn't morally, professionally, ethically and criminally wrong. He had his fun and now his cell mate will return the favor.

Which isn't to say that I think that this sentance isn't messed up.



I used to be a teacher and I can tell you that the opportunity to do what this guy did was definitely there. Once I walked into my office after hours and a VERY attractive student who was 18 and a graduating senior was waiting for me - naked. Was I tempted? Yes - she was drop dead movie star hot. But it was the wrong thing to do. Did she try to convince me? Yes. Did I let her? No.

She contacted me a few years back on FB and thanked me for not doing what I could have and for making the entire situation a learning experience. And she wasn't the only female student who offered herself to me for whatever reason.

The point is that as a teacher it was my duty and obligation to NOT do anything. It is wrong on so many levels.

[WI_DEM]

40. So the teacher now expressed interest in another girl

teachers shouldn't be dating students especially high school students.

[FLPanhandle]

53. The legal system frowns heavily on bribing or threatening witnesses

"Authorities say the girl reported the relationship after learning that Paschal had expressed interest in another girl."

Also sounds like he was a serial predator.

[adigal]

59. She can go to war, but not fool around with a teacher?

Seems silly to me. What the teacher did was WRONG, but 30 years in jail? Seems ridiculous since she was of legal age.

[FLPanhandle]

61. I suspect the jail time was more about the witness tampering than the sex.

Judges don't like that.

[DiverDave]

88. 4000 fine for bribe

and oh, the bribe? he asked someone to ask her to reconsider...some bribe.

30 years, a travesty.

[fascisthunter]

147. yet Wall Street Execs walk free and so do Bush and Cheney

[WolverineDG]

75. Because females are *always* victims

don't you know that? Even when we're adults & engage in consensual sex, we're still too stupid to breathe, according to some "feminists" & therefore need "protection."

Anyways, I think the 30 year sentence had more to do with the witness-tampering & threats, as stated above.

dg

[bluestateguy]

62. And this is why states are running red ink

Wasting millions and millions to warehouse non violent "criminals" in taxpayer supported prisons.

[BobbyBoring]

64. I sure hope she had great big

Never mind. 30 years is insane though. In some states many sex acts are illegal and the closer we get to the American Taliban taking over the country, the more you will see them prosecuted.

[JoeyT]

69. I didn't know the cutoff was 21, and it looks like there's a bit more to the story than that.

I did know that bribing witnesses is illegal, and if he didn't he's an idiot.
He was charged with 4 counts of 2nd degree sexual assault and found guilty on all of them.

http://www.5newsonline.com/news/kfsm-news-nwa-david-paschal-sex-student-elkins,0,2956527.story">The student said Paschal told her not to tell anyone about their relationship or she would get hurt. In May, after having sex with Paschal four or five times, the student went to police for protection.

Yep, nothing to see here. I must have missed the memo where "Tell anyone about this and I'll fuck you up kid." = consent.

Oh wait, we're going with the "Jealous wimmenz destroyed that poor innocent man! Woe! Woe is us!" narrative? Carry on then.

[muriel_volestrangler]

90. The threat of violence does make it far more serious

and the size of sentence more understandable. Thanks for finding that link.

[MedicalAdmin]

150. Helpful link.

On the other hand what it reported is heresay. We can't know what actually happened, but if he did use the threat of force or other coersive means then he is exactly where he deserves to be.

When I read that story a LOT of red flags were flying in my mind.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

74. What insane prude could think this is NOT excessive? 30 years? WTF? -nt

[rucky]

77. They should've given him the death penalty.

Just trying to keep things interesting.

[LeftishBrit]

79. Serious professional misconduct, yes; but 30 years jail for sex with an adult?

Sounds a bit much.

At least he didn't become the head of the school inspectorate and then describe pupil-teacher sex as 'experiential and educative'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/291890.stm

[FLPanhandle]

80. ...and witness tampering

That usually bumps things up quite a lot. The legal system is very hard on witness bribing/threatening.

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. witness tampering was only a fine;see link in reply #67 (nt)

[FLPanhandle]

83. Yes, but it plays into the judges decision to impose some leniency

Judges may have charged money for the witness tampering, but every judge takes that into account when sentencing.

He blew any chance for a reduced sentence.

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. Yeah, I was going to bring up that case

Of course, he went on to write for that paragon of moral rectitude, the Telegraph. And now he's the chairman of a company that runs 52 independent schools: http://www.cognitaschools.co.uk/about-us.html

[joshcryer]

82. Worst thing about this is the utterly evil and vindictive nature of the girl.

[blueamy66]

84. I call bullshit.

When I was 16 I had a crush on a teacher.

I would have had sex with him if he would have asked.

16 year old girls KNOW what they are getting into.

30 FREAKING YEARS for consensual sex? Are You Kidding Me?

[jberryhill]

95. Teachers know what they are getting into too

It is precisely because students develop crushes on teachers, who are in a position of authority, that states generally have laws relating to teachers who take advantage of that authority. It's not something that the state wants going on in schools. If that is going to be a problem, then one should consider not becoming a teacher.

[blueamy66]

97. Or if an 18 year old girl who has sex with

a male teacher, she should keep her mouth shut.

She legally is an adult and should be able to make decisions like an adult would.

You really think that this teacher should do 30 years of hard time? Really?

[jberryhill]

100. No, and I didn't say I did

However, there is nothing ambiguous about the definition of 2nd degree sexual assault in Arkansas.

You are really going to do nothing to change that law? The shame.

[blueamy66]

130. I live in Arizona.

I really don't feel the need to go to Arkansas to change this law. I cannot afford to miss that much time at my place of employment.

stupid, medivial law.....ugh

[jberryhill]

143. Medieval? In Arizona, adultery is illegal

This is legal in Arkansas, and a misdemeanor in Arizona:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/01408.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

13-1408. Adultery; classification; punishment; limitation on prosecution

A. A married person who has sexual intercourse with another than his or her spouse, and an unmarried person who has sexual intercourse with a married person not his or her spouse, commits adultery and is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor. When the act is committed between parties only one of whom is married, both shall be punished.

B. No prosecution for adultery shall be commenced except upon complaint of the husband or wife.

[blueamy66]

132. Yeah, because when you're in college,

taking Education classes, your first thought is about all of the students that you can seduce.

[seabeyond]

116. then shame on you for setting up some man for this kind of repercussion. you, too,

would have had a responsibility if you at all care for other people. and as an adult, knowing the law and repercussions, it would have been his job to say... no.

at 16, you are old enough to have sex. and at 16 you are also old enough to see the repercussions of you making this decision

[blueamy66]

131. whatever

I've done a few stupid things in my life because I thought that I was in love. Do I deserve a jail sentence because of those stupid choices? don't think so

I really wasn't thinking "about the law and the repercussions".

I love all of these holier than thou people that have posted in this thread.

We are all human...we all are driven by our emotions...to claim that you aren't is a lie....

[seabeyond]

136. you claim at 16 grown up enough to haev sex. but not grown up enough to think

putting someone in a position to go to prison. not a small thing.

we are always on the teens side to make these choices yet we have absolutely no expectation of responsibility anywhere else. i find it funny, interesting.

hey, ... this is discussion debate. you didnt do anything, remember.

and no.... emotion really does not have the same hold on me that it does with you. in being human, we are also all different. power of emotion is different for everyone i have learned. it really is harder for some than others.

[blueamy66]

139. Then I feel kinda sorry for you....

You don't follow your emotions?

And do you really think that the 18 yr. old girl know about this law? Cause I'm in my 40s and can't believe that it is in existence.

[seabeyond]

140. ya. she knew. why she went after him when he was interested in another student.

and if a kid does not know about the laws, then they should be made aware by parents and responsibility in the choices in life.

my brother who is ever so emotional has followed his emotions for a lifetime. his highs, his lows. and he has a really fucked up life. he wouldnt have it any other way. he "feels sorry for me", too. i gotta laugh. it isnt a matter of following emotions. i follow mine just fine. they just are not extreme and all consuming. and i have the life i want to live, doing what i want to do. in doing that, it has been an easy good life which is what i want to live.

he took after my mom. i took after dad. it is all good, just uniquely individual.

if following emotions gets someone 30 yrs in prison for a little sex, i am not seeing the benefit in that.

[blueamy66]

162. Really?

Is there a class offered in High School that addresses ALL LAWS?

And just an FYI...Do you ever capitalize any first words in a sentence?

[seabeyond]

170. fyi? for my information? do i capitalize? like, fyi.... i dont know about capitalization, lol?

you are clueing me in about the process?

no, i rarely or never capitalize.... for whatever it is worth.

she knew it was an issue enough to use it against the teacher.

and yes... i do teach my boys what will get their ass in trouble. part of my job. regardless of whether i think they are in danger of breaking the law or not. well before they will find themselves in that position

[jberryhill]

148. I am certain that every public school teacher in Arkansas knows it is illegal to boink students

Obviously, this teacher knew it well enough to threaten a witness.

Of course, he may have just been following his emotions when he made that threat.

[blueamy66]

155. Still think that the law is bullshit.

It's the year 2011....not the Middle Ages....

[blueamy66]

161. "Boinking" an 18 year old is miles away

from "boinking" a 14 year old.

What don't you understand?

[Paradoxical]

93. 30 years in prison for almost any crime is absurd.

I don't think people realize how long 30 years in prison actually is. Basically, this man's life is over.

And for what? Having sex with an adult? Bribery?

This is absolutely ridiculous. Fine him and send him to jail for bribery. But how can you possibly consider it a crime for two consenting adults to have sex?

[malaise]

94. I though eighteen year olds were adults

This is ridiculous

[jberryhill]

103. They are. So is the teacher

And presumably, all of them can read:

5-14-125. Sexual assault in the second degree.

(a) A person commits sexual assault in the second degree if the person:

...


(6) Is a teacher in a public school in a grade kindergarten through twelve (K-12) and engages in sexual contact with another person who is:

(A) A student enrolled in the public school; and

(B) Less than twenty-one (21) years of age.

[malaise]

128. I'm against teachers having sex with students

but this sentence is ridiculous

Bush and Cheney committed war crimes and are walking free.

[SoCalDem]

106. Ouch.

The big scandal at my high school was that a math teacher was "having an affair" with a senior girl..
Lots of people "knew" about it, but no one said anything...After she graduated,they got married.. He was about 26 and she was 19. They moved to another state and last I heard they had about 4 kids ..

[MedicalAdmin]

151. That was the case with one of my college profs.

He was a great guy and him and his wife had been married for about 8 years when I met him. He was a high school teacher and his wifes teacher as well. She was a senior and she pursued him.

The difference here is that my prof/friend didn't DO anything until after she graduated and was no longer his student. At which point, although he was about 7 years older he went to her house and introduced himself to her parents and asked her dad for permission to date her. They are still married. We had talked about this very situation in an educational ethics seminar and he was very forthcoming about the fact that he was completely and totally in love with his wife very early after he met her - said she was the most amazing and exciting woman he had ever met. But he didn't do anything despite being told explicitely that he could do anything he wanted to... Wrong is wrong.

There is a right way to go about these things and a wrong way. The guy in the OP chose the wrong way. Given his pattern I would suspect that he has been doing this for a LONG time and just got caught this time.

[Blue_In_AK]

107. A bit over the top, I think. n/t

[joeunderdog]

110. Dick Cheney fucked an entire country

and he's walking free.

30 years--people get less for murder. The crime was wrong, but so is the punishment.

[LaPera]

123. As soon as I saw the student was 18 I knew the teacher was a male - Female teachers always

seem to go after the very young boys....13, 14, 15 years old as we have all seen in the news at least a dozen or so times just in the past few years or more.....However, no one should be so smug here - The truth is It occurs all the time with teachers of both genders and students of all ages....But 18 certainly is old enough to make a decision to whom one wants to have sex with - unless they are complete morons.....Shit, I certainly knew by the time I was fifteen - and I did....and I wasn't anybodies fool!

[Bucky]

158. No true. Not "always"

Check out Badbadteacher.com. It's a shocking site, but not a surprising one.

[apocalypsehow]

125. It is appalling and disgusting, but this is what we signed on for the day the "21 to drink" law was

signed by Ronald Reagan back in the eighties.

If eighteen year olds are not mature enough to drink or consent to sex, they are obviously not mature enough at that age to either vote or handle high-powered weaponry in the U.S. military.

And yet....

It is a bizarre disconnect.

[markpkessinger]

154. Agreed! +1000

Look, at a certain point, we have to draw a line at the age of majority, whatever that age is going to be. Now, it's a given that some folks will be less emotionally and psychologically mature, and some will be more so,at any given age. But for there to be any kind of legal coherence whatsoever, we should determine that age, be it 18, 21, 25 or whatever, and recognize it across the board for all purposes. At a certain point, people need to be responsible for their own decisions, and I think it's a mistake to criminalize every interpersonal relationship where a power/authority differential may exist. Power differentials can exist in all sorts of relationships for all sorts of reasons. I think, as a matter of ethics, teachers should not be involved with students that they are either currently teaching, or who are currently students at the same institution. But breaches should be a matter of professional discipline, not criminal prosecution.

As a gay man, I see the impact of this sort of thing in the gay community all the time. To be sure, there are older gay men who try to take emotional advantage of younger men (say, in their late teens or early 20s). And that is wrong. But for every situation like that I can point out, I can also point out situations where it is the younger party who exploits the emotional vulnerability and fear of being alone of the older party, taking him for a ride for all the money/benefits the younger one can get out of the situation, the younger one using sex/affection as a means of manipulation. And I've seen older/younger relationships that are very healthy ones.

[apocalypsehow]

126. And one other thing: always love the free-lance "lawyers"-cum-prosecuting attorney's who always seem

to weigh in on these threads with exacting definitions of the statues and verbatim posting of the same from the actual laws as written.

They seem not to understand the concept of "if that's the case, then the law is an ass..." - Just as it was an "ass" in such things as laws against interracial marriage, or segregated schools.

On a related note, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen some online "lawyer" here at DU presume to lecture the rest of us on the niceties & nuances of the law, I'd be a millionaire.

Note to my fellow DU posters: if you're going to cop an appeal to authority stance to me by claiming you're a lawyer in real life, then I got news for you - I'm a supreme court justice (:eyes: + :sarcasm:). So spare me, please. Thanks.

[deaniac21]

141. Teachers leave them kids alone

Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

[Vinee]

142. 15 will get you 30. He found out.

what a dumbass.

[markpkessinger]

153. Except that she was 18, not 15 n/t

[fascisthunter]

146. the usual authoritarian mindset agrees with the sentence

how fucking stupid but expected.

[Bucky]

156. I'm a teacher. I say "good".

Teachers are supposed to look out for students, acting "in loco parentis." Sleeping with the kids you're supposed to be protecting is the wrong kind of "loco" here.

[Hannah Bell]

166. you think 30 years is good?

did you read the part about she reported him because he expressed interest in another woman?

[readmoreoften]

169. This teacher disagrees. I teach a subject. I'm not their parents.

(I'm not their lovers, either, of course but 30 years is ludicrous.)

I am not there to protect or be the parent of my students. Granted, the majority of the people I teach are 18 and up, but I think its twisted to imagine yourself in loco parentis of anyone over the age of 16.

[blueamy66]

171. She was EIGHTEEN!!!

Did you miss that?

[sarcasmo]

157. #1 country at putting people in prison.

[Politicalboi]

159. Too bad this doesn't apply to priest

For "Real" underage sex.